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  #1  
Unread 06-03-2012, 10:56 PM
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Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

NOTICE: THE FOLLOWING IS BASED ON THE CHART I CLAIM TO BE THE LEGITIMATE CHART OF THE BIRTH OF THE NATION OF THE USA. ...for more on that, please read the following thread for which I have provided this link. ...thank you. ptv
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=48016


Wow... my head is still spinning.
The USA natal Part of Fraud [Asc. + Neptune - Mercury] is @ 19* Gemini 23' 24"...please note that Dubyas natal Uranus is 19* Gemini 09' 00" ...gee, how startling?!?...ahem...
Dubyas ........ USA natal comparisons

Sun conj. Sun
M.C. conj. Asc.
Moon trine Moon
Uranus conj. Mars
North Node conj. Mars
Sun conj. Jupiter
Moon conj. Saturn
Part of Catastrophe conj. Sun
Desc. conj. Part of Eros
Jupiter conj. Saturn
Chiron conj. Saturn Asc. conj. North Node
Uranus conj. Part of Fraud
Jupiter conj. Part of Bankruptcy


It should be of great interest to all that at 8:46 AM in N.Y., N.Y. [the event chart] Mars was @ 01* Cap. 27' and the USA natal Part of Death [Asc. + C8 - Moon] is @ 01* Cap. 11"

also of great interest is that Dubyas natal Part of Catastrophe [Asc. + Uranus - Sun] is @ 12* Cancer 28' and the USA natal Sun is 12* Cancer 38'

The event chart for the first tower being hit on 9/11 has an asc. of 14* Libra 21' ...the USA natal Saturn is @ 14* Libra 47'

Dubya and the USA natal composite has an Asc. of 14* Gemini 18" and Uranus @ 14* Gemini 01'... the event chart for 9/11 Saturn is @ 14* Gemini 45'

The event chart has the Sun @ 18* Virgo 51' the Dubya-USA natal progressed composite for 9/11/2001 has Saturn at 18* Virgo 25'

The Dubya USA natal prog. comp. for 9/11/2001 has the Moon @ 06* Leo 28" ...the USA natal has Nth. Node @ 06* Leo 35'

The event chart has Neptune @ 06* Aquarius 21' and the USA natal South Node is @ 06* Aquarius 35' the USA natal Part of Eros is @ 06* Aquarius 25'

I'm attaching a composite chart for natal Dubya and the USA
and a progressed composite chart for the two.... I'd like to point out that the Composite Part of Bankruptcy for Dubya and the USA natal is at 12* Cap. 06' ...and I needed remind you all that Pluto will conj. that in January 2014...
The USA natal Part of Catastrophe is @ 17* Taurus 44' and the Dubya USA natal composite chart has a Part of Catastrophe @ 15* Taurus 06

The USA's natal Part of disappointments is @ 19* Capricorn 58' and the Dubya USA natal composite has an I.C. @ 20* Cap. 06'

[Dubyas M.C. @ 24* Aries 12' is conj. my Part of Tragedy/Fatality @ 23 Aries 01'. His Neptune @ 05* Libra 56' is conj. my Part of Bankruptcy @ )5* Libra 46'. His Mercury @ 09* Leo 50' is conj. my Part of Exile 09* Leo 59'. Dubyas Part of Catastrophe @ 12* Cancer 28" is conj. my Part of Luck 11* Cancer 37' ..now, that 's LUCKY!]

...too much to list...too much to go over... I'm a bit dizzy from comparing some many different charts and need to leave the astrology biz alone for the rest of today... if anyone is interested in finding out more from these...take it from here with my blessing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Dubya - USA natal composite.jpg (85.0 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Dubya- USA progressed composite 9-11-01.jpg (90.2 KB, 12 views)

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Last edited by piercethevale; 07-03-2012 at 12:34 AM. Reason: added word: note
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Unread 06-30-2012, 04:42 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

That is certainly some coincidental geometry. I empathize with your swooning over all the connections. For me, such geometry can validate such webbing but I still walk the fence on the interpretive potential for actual versus worst-/best-case scenarios.

Imagine the amount of ‘tracking’ one would need to find a true balance.
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Unread 07-02-2012, 10:15 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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Originally Posted by Katydidit View Post
That is certainly some coincidental geometry. I empathize with your swooning over all the connections. For me, such geometry can validate such webbing but I still walk the fence on the interpretive potential for actual versus worst-/best-case scenarios.

Imagine the amount of ‘tracking’ one would need to find a true balance.
It is a delicate balance...and I certainly cannot judge the man based on what information is still not revealed...such as the mystery surrounding building number 7 and what actually hit the Pentagon...[it certainly wasn't a plane] the allegations of David Wilcox and the matter of who David Wilcox truly is [and many people I know believe in his genuineness of sincerity ...although the bit about being the re-incarnation of Edgar Cayce is shaky in my opinion.] there are so many allegations, theories and counter theories and evidence to consider in all 'camps' that God only knows if the truth is known or ever will be.
I see good in Dubya's chart but knowing his personal history and his family legacy it's very hard to believe that he was nothing more than the 'Front Man' for the machinations of greed and political intrigue ...and IMHO, truly it was in all actuallity his fathers third term as president no matter which way I look at it.
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Unread 07-02-2012, 11:03 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

You neglect to mention the USA chart you are using - and its provenance.
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Unread 07-03-2012, 12:28 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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You neglect to mention the USA chart you are using - and its provenance.
Did I?
I guess I did. I had been careful to include a 'Disclaimer' on all others...I'm pretty sure I have, anyways.
Sometimes I get so caught up in so many different study projects that such details can, and do, slip by me.

[btw...did you catch my recent thread on the Venus/Sun conjunctions and the pentagrams?..if not...you should [IMHO], as it is something of Astronomical fact, it can't be denied. Now my interpretation may be off but, the fact is that, it is a recurrent and undeniable phenomena. [As far as I know, and there's no opinion or proof to the contrary as of today...and I have sent the info to a couple of astronomers that I personally know, one of whom I've known since junior high school and presently teaches at Cal State San Luis Obispo.]

I'll edit the first post and put a disclaimer in.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
ptv
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Unread 07-21-2012, 12:09 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

Interesting thread – and trying my best not to focus on a political exchange –

On Wilcox: For many years my initials were KC; I rather fancied that reincarnation myself. Over time the conviction went away yet melded within everything else. I think Cayce planted a sensory seed in many of us. This was about the same time I began talking to insects and plants <hey, I’m grinning and winking over here>.

On Dubya et al: Unfortunately, I suspect that all our latest presidents have been “nothing more than the 'Front Man' for the machinations of greed and political intrigue.” If they weren’t when they went in, they soon discovered it was the black hole web of the system.

On your Venus/Sun/pentagrams: Can you provide a link? Astronomical geometry is always of interest to me. Aye, eye should search for myself, but I wanted to note that I, for one, am interested in further details.
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Unread 07-21-2012, 04:14 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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Originally Posted by Katydidit View Post
Interesting thread – and trying my best not to focus on a political exchange –

On Wilcox: For many years my initials were KC; I rather fancied that reincarnation myself. Over time the conviction went away yet melded within everything else. I think Cayce planted a sensory seed in many of us. This was about the same time I began talking to insects and plants <hey, I’m grinning and winking over here>.

On Dubya et al: Unfortunately, I suspect that all our latest presidents have been “nothing more than the 'Front Man' for the machinations of greed and political intrigue.” If they weren’t when they went in, they soon discovered it was the black hole web of the system.

On your Venus/Sun/pentagrams: Can you provide a link? Astronomical geometry is always of interest to me. Aye, eye should search for myself, but I wanted to note that I, for one, am interested in further details.
Hello! Cool...thanks for the interest. But, I'm not sure what link you're asking for on the Pentagrams. Could you be more specific as I thought I had given them all out...unless you're referring to the one JUPITER ASC. left.

I don't know if you are aware of the situation concerning astrodienst and their online ephemeris now being 'compromised'. I posted a thread on this in the 'Hot Topic" sub forum of the General sub forum. If you are new to the knowledge of my existence and my research, it might be a natural reaction to think I'm making that up or am manipulating something. Trust me I've been published for over 4 years now and the chart of major controversy concerning a date in the spring of the year 3 AD has been downloaded, printed, saved, and in the hands and computer files of many and what astrodienst says is now the astrological configuration for that day is not what we have on files...and in this forum in a few threads [at least they were still there last time I looked]. As certain dates still provide the same chart and others don't, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that is impossible unless the integrity of the entire computer program has been breached.

What that means, presently, is I can 't do any research backwards or forward in time...at this time. I'm in the process of getting a 'connection', I have with NASA ,to see about getting me access to the 'Skyglobe' program that astrodienst was based on. Maybe we'll start our own web site and online ephemeris. So If you or anyone else has any questions about this thread or any other that would require me to cast a chart for somewhere back or forward in time...unfortunately it will have to wait.
[Which should make it obvious that whoever did 'fudge' with the program at astrodienst is desperate to achieve some advantage with 'time'...as they know I would find an alternative eventually and that by fudging that program they've caused astrodienst to lose all credibility. ...As I was accused, and still am by some folks, of being 'delusional' and or ' all self inflated with ego and self importance' due to my questioning as to why and, the process and manner of, how Pluto was reduced in 'rank' by the IAU just a short time after I fist made public about the discovery of the chart and the info that the chart from 3 AD contains, that I was ONLY able to 'pin down' because I had a theory that the date I was looking for would produce something remarkable for the moment Pluto rose on the Asc. of a certain locale that the data for that year in 3 AD ...does indicate that this recent situation with astrodienst at least includes me as the target if not wholly so. ...and now gives me some vindication, even if just the minutest, as to what I've alluded to concerning certain members of the IAU and the Pluto affair.]

You sound like a person of spiritual integrity and right purpose... if what I have produced and my recounting of events is proven to your satisfaction I ask you to share it with as many people of like purpose as ourselves. As I said, it appears that someone, or someones, are desperate for an advantage as to 'time'... and to my reasoning that means, before too many people become aware of a situation... and one that surely must be pending.

May God Bless you in your search for truth and knowledge.
ptv
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Unread 07-21-2012, 11:25 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
Did I?
I guess I did. I had been careful to include a 'Disclaimer' on all others...I'm pretty sure I have, anyways.
Sometimes I get so caught up in so many different study projects that such details can, and do, slip by me.

[btw...did you catch my recent thread on the Venus/Sun conjunctions and the pentagrams?..if not...you should [IMHO], as it is something of Astronomical fact, it can't be denied. Now my interpretation may be off but, the fact is that, it is a recurrent and undeniable phenomena. [As far as I know, and there's no opinion or proof to the contrary as of today...and I have sent the info to a couple of astronomers that I personally know, one of whom I've known since junior high school and presently teaches at Cal State San Luis Obispo.]

I'll edit the first post and put a disclaimer in.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
ptv
There is no historical basis for a time just past midnight for a USA on 4 July 1776 chart. In fact, the preponderance of historical evidence points to a chart around noon. It's as if one was doing a rectification for someone who knows they were born between 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. and the astrologer comes up with a time of just past midnight because it resonates with the astrologer's own chart.

As far as the astronomical occurrences of Sun/Venus conjunctions (and Venus retrograde patterns) making a five-pointed figure in the sky over time, it's nothing new and revolutionary. It's been known for a long time.
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Last edited by Frank; 07-29-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Unread 07-21-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

My, my. That is certainly food for thought. What if it’s all incorrect – by sabotage or not? Wow – I had to think about that for a while. Decided I could live with it. These are my thoughts on your thoughts:

I don't know if you are aware of the situation concerning astrodienst and their online ephemeris now being 'compromised'.
No, I’ve never read of this. I’d really appreciate it if you would simplify the issues for me/us.
1) What is the compromise? Are there consistent discrepancies in the data or is it random error?
2) Couldn’t it be as simple as ‘data shifting’ at a time of computer transfers, upgrading, sharing with different users/servers/upgrades? I’ve ruined Excel spreadsheets that way – sometimes took days to figure it out. One could theorize that on a much grander scale.


It might be a natural reaction to think I'm making that up or am manipulating something.
Other than checking your birth date for a minute or two, I know nothing about you. (Chose not to investigate the 3K+ posts [big grin]). And no, I don’t suspect you – it reads to me like a person on a mission.

Which brings me to my main question. You say all the data can’t be trusted – and on a macro scale large enough to include Pluto. Given such an assumption, how do you trust in a micro scale to calculate such specific date correlations to Dubya?

Didja see what I did there? Brought it right back round to the original topic. <winking again>

p.p.s. I’m setting aside the pentagon subject for now. I may reseach that one first.
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Unread 07-23-2012, 02:33 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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Originally Posted by Frank View Post
There is no historical basis for a time just past midnight for a USA on 4 July 1776 chart. In fact, the preponderance of historical evidence points to a chart around noon. It's as if one was doing a rectification fro someone who knows they were born between 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. and the astrologer comes up with a time of just past midnight because it resonates with the astrologer's own chart.

As far as the astronomical occurrences of Sun/Venus conjunctions (and Venus retrograde patterns) making a five-pointed figure in the sky over time, it's nothing new and revolutionary. It's been known for a long time.
Hi Frank. I didn't say that these Pentagram configurations were anything previously unknown. I did say, I believe no one has ever noticed the fact that a perfect pentagram constructed to the inferior conjunction is an entirely 'inconjunct pentagram" to the subsequent [following] 'perfect pentagram' based on the superior conjunction. I have quoted Rudolph Steiner making a prediction based on the pentagrams of Venus/Sun conjunctions and I do wonder why your not aware of this...at this moment it's 6am in the morning ..and once again...I find myself having been up nearly 24 hours, not intending to, but apparently inevitable, as I've had to deal with so many things today the last of which was finally getting around to checking in with the forum to see 'What's up', and that was before mid night here, [as I've answered a few posts, checked a number of notes and charts, consulted a few books, etc.....and I was about to retire and get some sleep, but thought I'd take a look at some threads I've neglected for awhile due to lack of time and noticed the post following this one of yours, I wanted to see what was posted, as I am the originator of this thread, I do feel an obligation to it. As yours is the post preceding it, I felt obligated to answer your, ...."Question"[?]...first. So I don't have the time to check and see if I mentioned Mr. Steiner in this thread, and I believe it wasn't, but is in the thread on the "pentagrams'. and I'm pretty sure I did in a couple of other posts, as well...especially anything I posted pertaining to the Saros, especially so considering the observation I made pertaining to the number 666 being associated with the Saros and the number '666' and my observation as to the progression of inconjunct pentagrams being in a progression by degrees of 06* followed by one of 66*..but I think you get the picture.

I would appreciate it, if you do know of anyone, or published work, that made notice of this "inconjuct" affair and could be so kind to inform me of it. Thank you.]
As to the chart I'm proposing is the natal chart of the USA [and am personally, 99.9% convinced of it...whether or not that means anything to you.] I've already stated my my process of investigation, in fact it was in the sticky thread that I did so first propose a different chart based on the work and publishing of astrologer, and author, Martin Schulman, so I can't quite understand why you accuse me of deliberately and unreservedly using a chart based on some idea that I was deliberately searching for some resonance to my own natal chart.
I did say that [and it is late for me and I'm not going back to search for it and then check whom it was...it's there posted...find it yourself] either Rudhyar or Schulman [afterthought: I'm pretty sure it was Schulman as I seem to recall Rudhyar was proposing a time around 2 pm] had championed a chart with the 5th degree of Gemini as the Asc. [I believe it was] and that the coincidence of that degree being also that of my Asc. and the fact that the Sabian Symbol for that degree is known as [By Dane Rudhyar's book on the Sabians: "An Astrological Mandala"]:

"A REVOLUTIONARY MAGAZINE ASKING FOR ACTION.

KEYNOTE: The explosive tendency of repressed feelings and root emotions.

Every movement overstressing one direction calls forth in time an equally extreme movement in the opposite direction. This is particularly true at the level of the dualistic mind symbolized in the zodiac by Gemini. What is rigidly bound in form and convention tends to explode into formlessness. It may do so violently if socially oppressed — through revolution — or at the psychological level in psychosis; or it may withdraw inwardly into the mystical state in which one identifies with an unformulatable Reality.

This fifth stage is related to the first, for it is the experience of a world of being so far unperceived by the everyday consciousness which starts the process. In the same sense a psychedelic experience may momentarily make the mind transparent to a non-ego-structured realm of consciousness, and may lead to a sustained attempt at understanding what has been revealed of a transcendent Reality. Whether the revolutionary action is violent or peaceful, bitterly resentful or loving, the one desire is TO REACH BEYOND ESTABLISHED FORMS."

[and I do ask of the moderators to be considerate here if I have exceeded the 100 word limitation of quotes, due to the nature of this question, which...IMHO... borders on accusation, as to not be perceived or accused of "Hiding something", and thus have given the entire text on this degree. Thanks, ptv]

It was the very use of the word "REVOLUTION", that gave me cause to consider it..and I did admit that it later failed by many a critical second evaluation by myself and posted that quite admittedly and I thought it was clearly as well
I then also gave reason for why I next chose to start by my own basis of reason which is the most simple and obvious choice to begin with for such a chart, which is mid night, and stated the reason why I would think that it is the most obvious one to begin with. I did so unbiased, non prejudicial and uninfluenced by any previous assessment by any astrologer, and certainly not tainted with any of those same limitations I just stated as to other astrologers as to any about or of myself. I don't seek that kind of stuff. That's not what I'm about. I only observe and make note...come what may, so be it, regardless. This is the same approach I have taken from the beginning of my studies in astrology whenever I am doubtful of something that is not proven, controversial, not known or unresolved...the latter being the situation with the natal chart of the USA. [and needless to say, I would think, as to previously unapproached, or thought/conceived of astrological/astronomical matters... as to why and how I came upon that issue of the 'Inconjunct Pentagrams".] I've mentioned my M.C. Sabian Symbol in many a thread as to being the "HOW" of my dharma...and so as to not "push it" with the mods and the 100 word limitation, you can look that up. It is the 25th degree of Leo and it also happens to be my Part of Fortune.

[and I meant to say something else..but I dozed off, for quite awhile... and am posting this 'as is' ...but I sure was in a beautiful dream and now...gone. So in the hope of reconnecting with that 'dream'..anything else I need to address or say will have to wait...until later, adeiu...ptv]

ps. I have stated on each post [excepting one I somehow , unitentionally din't, a disclaimer that this is what I believe to be the proper chart. It is an unresolved issue. The 'Sticky' on this subject is surely proof of that. No one is obligated to follow any threads I post... based on that... I have found that people interested in what I have to say about it and will continue as long as a number of folks do....and I believe eventually this chart will be recognized. I started this thread to show that there is a number of reasons for its' consideration due to "Dubya's" synastry with it.
I can 'see' where-as any astrologer that has made an assumption to one of their own choice as being the correct one and has, [how shall I say it?]...gotten themselves out on a limb, for reason that they had posted much or published anything based on their beliefs or convictions, then reassessed their chart due to my own being now presented, and if it gains any popularity of being worthy of consideration, let alone get accepted by anyone and start being publicized by recommendation... that would be a bit of a 'ummm, ..let me say...a "pickle", now wouldn't it? Especially if their are in the profession of being an astrologer...something that I'm not personally burdened with nor do I wish to be...I do this only for the love of astrology, of knowledge and the truth.
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Last edited by piercethevale; 09-10-2012 at 09:48 AM. Reason: deleted reference to my 'signature' . I have changed it since this was posted.
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Unread 07-23-2012, 03:02 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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Originally Posted by Katydidit View Post
My, my. That is certainly food for thought. What if it’s all incorrect – by sabotage or not? Wow – I had to think about that for a while. Decided I could live with it. These are my thoughts on your thoughts:

I don't know if you are aware of the situation concerning astrodienst and their online ephemeris now being 'compromised'.
No, I’ve never read of this. I’d really appreciate it if you would simplify the issues for me/us.
1) What is the compromise? Are there consistent discrepancies in the data or is it random error?
2) Couldn’t it be as simple as ‘data shifting’ at a time of computer transfers, upgrading, sharing with different users/servers/upgrades? I’ve ruined Excel spreadsheets that way – sometimes took days to figure it out. One could theorize that on a much grander scale.


It might be a natural reaction to think I'm making that up or am manipulating something.
Other than checking your birth date for a minute or two, I know nothing about you. (Chose not to investigate the 3K+ posts [big grin]). And no, I don’t suspect you – it reads to me like a person on a mission.

Which brings me to my main question. You say all the data can’t be trusted – and on a macro scale large enough to include Pluto. Given such an assumption, how do you trust in a micro scale to calculate such specific date correlations to Dubya?

Didja see what I did there? Brought it right back round to the original topic. <winking again>

p.p.s. I’m setting aside the pentagon subject for now. I may reseach that one first.
I apologize for not getting around to your post this,..well, now, 'morning'...I'm too tired to continue until some other time. Thanks for your interest and being open minded!
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Unread 07-23-2012, 03:53 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katydidit View Post
My, my. That is certainly food for thought. What if it’s all incorrect – by sabotage or not? Wow – I had to think about that for a while. Decided I could live with it. These are my thoughts on your thoughts:

I don't know if you are aware of the situation concerning astrodienst and their online ephemeris now being 'compromised'.
No, I’ve never read of this. I’d really appreciate it if you would simplify the issues for me/us.
1) What is the compromise? Are there consistent discrepancies in the data or is it random error?
2) Couldn’t it be as simple as ‘data shifting’ at a time of computer transfers, upgrading, sharing with different users/servers/upgrades? I’ve ruined Excel spreadsheets that way – sometimes took days to figure it out. One could theorize that on a much grander scale.


It might be a natural reaction to think I'm making that up or am manipulating something.
Other than checking your birth date for a minute or two, I know nothing about you. (Chose not to investigate the 3K+ posts [big grin]). And no, I don’t suspect you – it reads to me like a person on a mission.

Which brings me to my main question. You say all the data can’t be trusted – and on a macro scale large enough to include Pluto. Given such an assumption, how do you trust in a micro scale to calculate such specific date correlations to Dubya?

Didja see what I did there? Brought it right back round to the original topic. <winking again>

p.p.s. I’m setting aside the pentagon subject for now. I may reseach that one first.
[Note to all: I deleted the text that was here previously as it is not germane to the subject of the thread. I should have posted it in the sub forum in which complaints and the like are supposed to be. As it remained posted here for a little more than a day, I made my point anyways...or maybe not, depending if it was read by those that it should need to concern. As I stated above I was real tired and made a poor call of judgment, which is not an excuse I know, but it is an explanation. I've left the following from the original post of mine. Thanks to all those of you who are understanding and patient. ptv]
Katydidit,
here's the link I mentioned: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=52596

ps. I sorry about the grammar and mis-spellings...I'm exhausted, rather upset, and don't feel like correcting them any more than I already have.
I pray that this doesn't become something...I certainly didn't seek out for it to be...nor ever intended for anything to, from the day I first posted here at this forum right up to this present moment.
OM Tat Sat OM Sat Nam Prema Nam OM
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Unread 07-23-2012, 09:59 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

I'm heading back to my shore
Since I wasn't ready to ask for more.
This tide has pulled me out to sea;
Now it's back to simplicity for me.

I wish Godspeed on your paths, PtV.
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Unread 07-25-2012, 12:24 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katydidit View Post
I'm heading back to my shore
Since I wasn't ready to ask for more.
This tide has pulled me out to sea;
Now it's back to simplicity for me.

I wish Godspeed on your paths, PtV.
I'm not sure what that means..but I do appreciate the last line you wrote.

And having read what I wrote in those last posts of mine ...I guess I was a lot more tired than I realized as the spelling, poor sentence construction, grammar, or lack of it, really made me cringe. Also, I apologize to everyone for that, but to leave the posting of member, "Frank", unanswered until another time, I felt, was not in my best interest nor to any of the material and multitude of prior postings on so many other topics I've posted here at this forum over the, last nearly, 5 years that I've been a member and writing here.

As it was with that chart I came upon, that I propose is that, of Yeshua/Jesus of Nazareth, and had confidence enough in it to actually publish it, having never sought to be a writer before in my life, for the same reasons [and I just spent over an hour writing an explanation about the difficulty and expense of time, money and friendship with a old chum that introduced me to the publisher, that accepted the material on his recommendation due to his good standing and reputation with him, that ensued after that...but I realized it was too much of a digression...and 'cut' and saved it for a possible future need.] I have as much confidence in this proposed natal chart of the USA.

Being that of, immediately noticing the Sabian Symbols for the Asc., the Part of Fortune, the other degrees for the chart axis and those of a few other Astrological Parts/ Lots and their degree symbols and that they were not only so appropriate but that there was either no other one of the other 359 symbols that did work in stead for the majority of them and the very few that could work if replaced with the even fewer number of symbols that I had to give consideration is so small in comparative number that the realization that such a preponderance of the of the odds of getting such a ratio again was so very unlikely, I had to admit it to be a 'no-brainer'...and btw, that's why rectification by Sabian Symbology is so effective...
[and the M.C, for not only in light of the recent occupy movements but, especially this evening, as to what is the very recent LIBOR scandal and ...IMHO... Obama's betrayal of the "99%", protecting Wall Street, starting with his rescue of George Bush’s bank bailout bill after it’s initial defeat in Congress, in the last days of Obama’s candidacy. His appointment to Attorney General, of Eric Holder, a corporate lawyer to the core, who is at present, busily staging a pre-emptive LIBOR prosecution of bankers in order to shield them from legal action by a host of other government agencies and, ultimately, from the global list, that stretches almost to infinity, of parties that have been harmed by the banker’s schemes. That the two of them pulled that trick earlier this year with the settlement of the bank “robo-signing” scandal...a scheme that would have ranked as the “crime of the century” until LIBOR came along. That the Justice Department has already given immunity to Barclay’s Bank, of Britain, and to the Swiss banking giant UBS....and I could go on...but that's enough, as I think you all will appreciate the following without adding anymore.] ...that of the Mid Haven [the "HOW" of the dharma of the chart axis.] which is the 12th of Capricorn: [ibid.]

"AN ILLUSTRATED LECTURE ON NATURAL SCIENCE REVEALS LITTLE-KNOWN ASPECTS OF LIFE.

KEYNOTE: The ability to explore unfamiliar realms and discover the laws underlying the complex processes of nature.

The aristocratic garden of the preceding phase has become the laboratory and lecture hall of a modern college. The emphasis here is on the acquisition of extensive knowledge, the satisfaction of intellectual curiosity. Nevertheless, there is also an aristocracy of science: this is the modern type. Its use of acquired knowledge can pose as many problems as the use of hereditary aristocratic wealth. But it is man's essential function to become fully conscious of all life forms and processes on this earth. Mankind is the conscious mind of the planet.

At this second stage the intellectual search for empirical knowledge contrasts with the display attendant to the wealth and culture of an elite. Civilization is founded on an ever-extended capitalization on knowledge and use of technology. It features EXPLOITATION preeminently at all levels."

...and I am kind of 'tickled' by the fact that Rudhyar choose to use the word "capitalization". He does use the word in the sense of an intransitive verb [I believe that is the correct term for the word in the way Dane used it.] As it is Capitalism and the Capitalists that have caused the whole dang mess that Obama is now reveling his true self to be that of their lackey.

I was planning to write more on this particular post about how and why I at first [and still do, and increasingly so...] was confident in this chart of so much controversy here. But as I had business to attend to this evening across town and also had dinner out, arriving back home around 10:30 pm and had bought a few new DVDs of recent movies and was going to watch one before I retired..and thought i'd just peek at my Facebook page...had to reply to a couple people and thought, what the heck, I'll just take a quick look on the forum here..."and wouldn't ya know it?"...it's now just past 4:30 am here...[or...I should have known it...I'm so stupid sometimes...but I don't mind so much as I think this post came out rather well...IMHO...of course] So, I'm just going to post this, "as is". I'll check it tomorrow and see if it needs to be expanded upon
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Unread 07-25-2012, 03:46 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

I wish to add [even as I'm now nodding out, having been up so long...and did so before I finished writing this...which appears to be about 45 mins.] that what I stated about Obama and his admin. and stated that it is IMHO, I stated as such because of the fact that in the last two days some of, the President of the United States, former staunchest supporters in the media have now, very apparently, have become among his most outspoken critics and are making statements as to be factual that at one time, not more than 30 to 40 years ago, would have been grounds for and would have had members of the Senate calling for His impeachment.

...to which I add, for a most very important reason, the opening line to the title to the thread I introduced the chart that has become the subject of contention and irritation to me as to the more recent insulting and derisive comments from another here in this thread, that it surely must be that..."...now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country,,,"
Thank you, ptv
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Unread 07-29-2012, 07:57 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

Well, Iv'e alerted astrodienst about there 'computer ephemeris' problem. That having been compromised and am still awaiting an answer.

For those of you unaware of this, I did start a thread and here's the link to it in this forum and in the posts you can see the charts of 'before' and 'after' and get a clue as to what I writing about here.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=52596

Of course, it's only certain dates...mainly those I've been working with at the time of day I've been working with. [matter of fact it's the ones i do of as I have any data for anything else to compare other than to start gleaning all the info from various charts others have posted here at the forum.

Some of those charts produced by the exact same data that I used before and now rather radically different, others now so much, but any bit is too much for any excuse other than 'there's a ghost in the machine', so to speak

I was going to post a rather detailed and descriptive understanding as to the logic of using the chart I propose [and claim] to be that of the natal for the nation of the U.S.A. but that can wait. I figure that those that have understood already need no further explanation. and that all can wait until another day, although you can all be assured I will do just exactly that... ASAP!. This, even though I believe I have done so on the thread in which I introduced this 'Chart of Controversy' but have given more thought as to the logic of it if only for just that of being a contender of consideration...which>>>IMHO<<<it's way beyond that of just being a contender, otherwise I wouldn't be using it as I am, I wouldn't be wasting my precious time not that of any member here at the forum!

The one chart I haven't previously offered up for inspection as of to today, which I'll do so now, is that chart that astrodienst now produces for that same data, which I used, when I first produced for my 'proposed' natal chart of the U.S.A., which can be seen in the original posting in the other thread here in this same sub forum of 'Mundane Astrology'. Here's the link to the chart attached, it's in post #3.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=48016

I'm also posting here the current chart from the data used in producing the original chart in post #3 in the thread at the above link, and look it over very carefully.
This is the chart with the subtlest change of all, that I've seen yet.
When you find it, ask yourself why this particular astro-body and why so minute a change ...as any change clearly demonstrates the computer program has been compromised...


The question to me is...is someone, or someones, trying to get a message across...and what might that message be?

ps. I added the original USA natal chart I downloaded back in March, it's the same as the one at the link above, I just wanted to make it easier for anyone that prefers to do it this way for comparing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg USA natal July 2012 version.jpg (87.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg USA natal.jpg (85.5 KB, 6 views)
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Unread 07-29-2012, 08:29 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

And to make it as easy for some of you as possible, here's a screen shot of the important detail of the two charts side by side ...and from that you can check the dates and data and such to see that there is only the slightest change..and ain't it funny it's that odd little object that I've been telling some members to not regard as something to take into consideration for anything other than only an 'astronomical anomaly'.
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Unread 07-29-2012, 08:32 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

Now you all tell me?

Why would 'THEY' worry about this chart if it ain't that of the USA.....?


Hmmmmmmmm?



uh huh... uh huh ...uh huh
...Dance ...Dance ...Dance
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Unread 08-01-2012, 02:08 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

Originally Posted by Katydidit
I'm heading back to my shore
Since I wasn't ready to ask for more.
This tide has pulled me out to sea;
Now it's back to simplicity for me.

I wish Godspeed on your paths, PtV.
<< I'm not sure what that means..but I do appreciate the last line you wrote.>>

You didn’t understand? Really?

It was my kindest way of saying that I didn’t understand a word of your post.
Your inter-technical vocabulary drowns me in trying to translate.
We can’t learn from you if we can’t understand you.
So, while wishing you well, I for one end my support of this thread.

Namaste

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Unread 08-01-2012, 02:38 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katydidit View Post
Originally Posted by Katydidit
I'm heading back to my shore
Since I wasn't ready to ask for more.
This tide has pulled me out to sea;
Now it's back to simplicity for me.

I wish Godspeed on your paths, PtV.
<< I'm not sure what that means..but I do appreciate the last line you wrote.>>

You didn’t understand? Really?

It was my kindest way of saying that I didn’t understand a word of your post.
Your inter-technical vocabulary drowns me in trying to translate.
We can’t learn from you if we can’t understand you.
So, while wishing you well, I for one end my support of this thread.

Namaste
I meant it in the context of which of the two possible chices I saw it as presenting me.


1. It is too complex a situation to come into without having been previously informed of all that has occurred as to leading up to this situation.

...or...

2. Simplicity is bliss.

...and then I said [without sayin'...if you know what I mean] that...

Either reason is fine by me and thanks for at least being supportive enough to wish me what you had.
I hope that's clear enough, now.
[...and maybe I am "on a mission", only time will tell. In the preface to that book I wrote about 5 years ago, I state who I am and what I am presently [at that time] involved in [and still am, but it has become something more like that of a mission, now.]

Read post #13 at this link to what another member contributed to this mystery of the ''Changing Data"...[and if you don't want to involve yourself, that's fine too...as I do respect peoples personal bliss.]
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...173#post408173


ps...btw...to say you are ending your "support" can be misconstrued by others to mean that 'You disapprove of it". And that is one other thing that caused me to write, "I'm not sure what you meant by that."
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Unread 08-01-2012, 03:04 AM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

Have you considered that the difference you are seeing is due to these possibilities:

1. Data entry error

2. Time Zone error

3. The difference between New Style and Old Style dates

Never jump to the conclusions of malice or conspiracy when simple mistakes may be the issue.
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Unread 08-01-2012, 04:16 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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Have you considered that the difference you are seeing is due to these possibilities:

1. Data entry error

2. Time Zone error

3. The difference between New Style and Old Style dates

Never jump to the conclusions of malice or conspiracy when simple mistakes may be the issue.
Frank, I will answer your inquiry point for point.

1. I have double and triple checked all data entry. I've also provided attachments of charts made from years before astrodienst exhibited this recent anomaly and charts from after. I've even taken screen shots and provided some copies of those. If you had looked those over carefully you would have noted the fact that I have not deviated from the original data I entered. Not the time of day, not the day, month or year and not the location for any chart that I also present that astrodienst now produces with different results.
As you did make a rather outlandish and erroneous claim, concerning the conjunctions of the Sun and Venus, that I stated something other than I did, It does give me cause, and justly so, to ask whether or not are you thoroughly reading and understanding what I do write and present or are you just jumping to conclusions and accusations?

2. I just answered this point in my reply to point number 1.
[although I am still working with the problem concerning that chart produced for next April., in that the "Universal Time" given by astrodienst is now different from that given before. I let everyone know when I've got any info regarding that.]

3. If by your use of these two terms, "New Style" and "Old Style" dates, you are referring to the Julian Calendar and the Gregorian Calendar, then my reply is: Yes, I have spent a great deal of my time studying the two systems.
I gave it a great deal of study in 2001 before I started even using the computer to ascertain an astrological chart for a time, date and place that required it. I also review that study on occasions, so as to not make any such errors that might possibly occur in dealing with dates that need to be addressed that are concerned with the two systems.
I've read up on the history of the event that Pope Gregory XIII, after whom the calendar was named, by a type of decree known as a "Papal Bull", signed on 24 February 1582, which both introduced and established the Gregorian Calendar. I am also thorough and observant, of what ever recorded date I'm using from the past, as to where the data of that originates from, the geo-political location of origin of said data was given, and the date of the issuing itself of said data that I'm using. I also give my most complete and full attention to whether that data is given in Julian or Gregorian form and as to whether it needs to be converted for the purpose of using it to ascertain any chart properly.
I've studied the reasons given for the Gregorian Calendar being created and the logic behind it. I've given as much study to the Julian Calendar as well.
I've also written about my studying this subject in the book I wrote and in many threads and posts I have in this websites' forum. I've even written some detailed explanations, when the subject of the two calendars arises, to a few members to help them understand it, in a few threads in this forum.
What I don't understand and I do question though, is why you are using the rather ambiguous terms "New Style" and "Old Style" dates in reference to this?
_______________________________________________

I do wish to say for the record the following.
My brother currently has five accredited university degrees, one of which is a B.S. in Computer Science, the others are a B.S. in Organic Chemistry, a B.S. in Biology, a B.A. in English Literature and he has a Masters Degree in Teaching. He is currently in studies to acquire two more degrees.
He introduced me to the fact that there was indeed somethings correct about, the so called "Traditional Astrology", back in the summer of 1984, when I moved into his apartment in Los Angeles, Calif., for 9 months. At that time He had been studying it intently for over two years and for those next months I got an intensive indoctrination into the study based on the distillation of what he determined what techniques and interpretive methods were worthy of consideration of being actually of use and what had proved to him was not, during that entire 9 month period. We had both been of the influence of our parents as to dismiss Astrology as it was being practiced and presented to be as valid before and up to that time, due to the readings given by the man known as Edgar Cayce and for which reason we had of our own to dismiss such regardless of our parents opinion. Our parents and my brother and I were and still are students of the Cayce material. Our parents had one of the largest, and more extensive personal private, libraries of that material. Of which, by the way, I just recently inherited due to my mothers passing early last year.
He also introduced to me the writings of Dane Rudhyar and whom He was. This was beyond all I knew of Dane at that time which was limited to what, a former college room mate of mine whom had high praise for Dane had also given me reason to acquire, the one book I had read that was written by Mr. Rudhyar, that is titled, "A Seed".
My brother is more voracious a reader as anyone I've personally ever known and as much so as anyone I ever heard or read of, past or presently. alive.
Quite possibly as erudite as well.
My brothers I.Q. does exceed my own for the fact that his verbal skills at comprehension and writing exceed mine. Our math abilities are equal, although I do believe I hold a slight edge, despite the fact that he has taken more advanced classes and instruction in math. I only went as far as college level Trigonometry. I am, however, superior in mechanical and spatial reasoning to that of his own. For the record he is called a "genius", for the consideration of tests, he has taken, given to determine I.Q. I am not called as such, but I scored just below that threshold, and would have surpassed, if not for my lower scores in the aforementioned verbal categories.
So, what I'm saying, Frank, is that I'm not stupid and I think you know that, or I thought you did.

Also I wish to state for the record that my younger sister is a para legal noted for her expertise in contractual law. She has over 25 years in the legal profession and was a litigator of renown her in Northern California and has a great deal of experience with with the courts in legal proceedings. I only use the word, 'was', for the fact that, I am so presently as aware of and unless otherwise informed, that she hasn't been involved with courtroom proceedings for a number of years now. Her expertise is so respected that she in fact was director of the legal department of, a comparatively small, energy management corporation for a few years, prior to taking a position with that of a company that is a, both creator and, manufacturer of computer software. This is a position as she had previously with the company, that was known as, "O.S.I." [Office Systems Integrated] prior to their acquisition, which had led to her leaving that industry for those few years, I just mentioned.
I only bring up the subject of my sister for to establish and emphasize I do know how to proceed with, produce and record, documentation of evidence.
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Unread 08-01-2012, 05:24 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
What I don't understand and I do question though, is why you are using the rather ambiguous terms "New Style" and "Old Style" dates in reference to this?

Because that is standard notation amongst historians in the English language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Sty...ew_Style_dates

As for the rest, there is a simple solution - check the calculations against an ephemeris or another calculation program.

I'm not quite sure where the list of your family member's qualifications fit in here, but good for them.
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Unread 08-01-2012, 05:31 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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On your Venus/Sun/pentagrams: Can you provide a link? Astronomical geometry is always of interest to me. Aye, eye should search for myself, but I wanted to note that I, for one, am interested in further details.
Katrydidit, here's a ink to the Venus/Sun/pentagrams thread that you requested in an earlier post http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=51423
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Unread 08-01-2012, 05:52 PM
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Re: Dubya - USA natal, composite, prog. comp. and 9/11 event chart comparison

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Originally Posted by Frank View Post
Because that is standard notation amongst historians in the English language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Sty...ew_Style_dates

As for the rest, there is a simple solution - check the calculations against an ephemeris or another calculation program.

I'm not quite sure where the list of your family member's qualifications fit in here, but good for them.
I've just addressed all concerns, Frank. As far as I'm concerned, I have no more concern as to what you have to criticize, offer or suggest as to this matter.

Or as my, dear, and departed, friend Kirby used to say: "Do you see any concern in this eye?" Because if you could see my eyes, Frank, you wouldn't see any.
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