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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 04-23-2012, 03:12 PM
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Rank of Fame

There are many different methods calculating the Rank of Fame in someones chart. I will try here to discuss all the methods of which I'm aware.
I will start from a mix of medieval astrology method of seeing the Rank of Fame with that of Ptolemy, and than in some other post I will present some of the Hellenistic methods.

1. First we look at the Sun, if it is in 10th or 11th house. In lasser degree fame is indicated also by Sun being in 1st, 4th and 7th.
Sun in aspect to the MC brings fame.
Sun in succedent house and especially if it is aspecting the MC can brings fame.

This is the general indicator. It doesn't necessarily means that if you have Sun in 10th, you will be famous.
Sun is analogous for Fame, so there fore we first start examining the Sun.

The Sun in 5th cuts the fame in half (except when it is in 5th).
Sun in 5th indicates success in arts and entertainment fields.

Sun's aspects are very important. Afflicted Sun by some hard aspect with strong malefic may bring infamy.

Sun's dispositor and its relationship to the Sun is also very important. The dispositor will show the origin of the fame of the native.

The dispositor of MC and its Almuten as well the aspects to the MC, will show for what will the native gain fame, because MC represents the native's actions.

Ok, lest try this first rule of examining the rank of fame with some practical example.



Here's the chart of Brad Pit.
We can see that the Sun is angular on the AC.
This is the first indication of success.
The Sun in Sag has honor as triplicity ruler.
The ruler of Sun (its dispositor), also its Almuten is the Strong Jupiter in 4th - angular, in a sign in which is having honor of triplicity.
Divisor of the Sun (Term ruler) is Venus which makes trine to the MC with the Moon - the native will be noticed by Women.

To add:
Sun is ruler of the Lot of Fame in 28Leo.
Moon (aspecting trine to MC with Venus) is ruler of the Lot of Success in Cancer.
The Sun is not impeded by bad aspect of Malefic.
It is in Trine relationship with Jupiter and in mutual reception (Sun by exaltation in Aries).
Sun is in aspect to MC. The thing that the aspect is square does not impede the rank of fame.

As we can see, the chart of Brad Pit is having many testimonies of this first rule of the Rank of Fame.
We will examine the other methods in my next post.


Last edited by Omnisphericus; 04-23-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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Unread 04-24-2012, 03:58 AM
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Ptolemy's 6 Levels of Ranks

The method is of Ptolomy, but Zoller actually gives the names of each level rank.

1. "God's Man" - this is the level where in a situations of chaos, there is a man who stands bold and from God send to save the people. Something similar to the Messiah concept.

The requirements are to have masculine lights and both on angles.
Or at least one is angular and masculine, of which case all the planets are Oriental to the Sun (if it is the Sun), or Occidental to the Moon (If the Light angular happens to be the Moon). This is the principle of Doryphory.

And, if the attendant stars themselves should also be in angles, or configured with the MC, the said persons will become great, powerful and mighty in the world and even yet more abundantly so if the configuration made by the attendant stars above the Earth be dexter.

If the planets are oriental to the Sun they need to be in the following sign to it. If the Moon, in the one preceding it.


2. Chieftains/Presidents - leaders of nations.

3. Governor - this can be a governor of a state, or a chief officer in big corporation.

4. Civil Leader - these are people who would not attain some great eminent of rank, but their importance would be seen behind the scenes.

5. Undistinguished - these people are never doing something particularly above the level of ordinance.

6. Base - these people are born to suffer obscurity and adversity.

.

Well, Zoller in his courses changes this rule and takes as Doryphory every planet which is oriental to the Sun and in aspect with it. Vice versa with the Moon. Zoller mentions that this is step lower (as a sub-grade) in the hierarchy.

What he does to calculate the rank of a person is to make a compound Almuten of the places of the planets which are in aspect to the Lights and are oriental/occidental according to the rules.

So lets try this with the example of Brad Pit who's chart is given above in the previous post.
But before doing it I need to mention that Zoller applies the rule of orientality/occidentality such as follows:
Inferior Planets (Venus/Mercury) are Oriental when they are Behind the Sun, and Occidental when they happen to be Before the Sun.
Superior Planets are Oriental when they are Before the Sun and Occidental Behind the Sun.

Lets now look at the chart of Brad Pit and make Compound Almuten for Rank.
Venus and Mercury are oriental, all other are occidental
So, for the Oriental planets we look aspects with the Sun, for the Occidental ones, aspects with the Moon.
Venus and Mercury do not make aspects to Sun.
From the Occidental planets only Jupiter makes an aspect to the Moon.
So we would take only the Almuten of the place of Jupiter.
The Almuten is the Sun.
So, it happens to be that Sun is the Compound Almuten for Reputation.

It is interesting to notice that in his conclusion Zoller talks about why sometimes rules seem that it doesn't work.
As I understood Zoller I think he is of opinion that this is because something is terribly wrong with the whole system of hierarchy in the world we live today.
I need to re-read him again, and I will talk about this more in the later posts.

The subject is not easy to grasp, but I will try to clarify it in the following comments.

Last edited by Omnisphericus; 04-24-2012 at 04:12 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 04-25-2012, 01:46 AM
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Re: Rank of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
There are many different methods calculating the Rank of Fame in someones chart. I will try here to discuss all the methods of which I'm aware.
I will start from a mix of medieval astrology method of seeing the Rank of Fame with that of Ptolemy, and than in some other post I will present some of the Hellenistic methods.

1. First we look at the Sun, if it is in 10th or 11th house. In lasser degree fame is indicated also by Sun being in 1st, 4th and 7th.
Sun in aspect to the MC brings fame.
Sun in succedent house and especially if it is aspecting the MC can brings fame.

This is the general indicator. It doesn't necessarily means that if you have Sun in 10th, you will be famous.
Sun is analogous for Fame, so there fore we first start examining the Sun.

The Sun in 5th cuts the fame in half (except when it is in 5th).
Sun in 5th indicates success in arts and entertainment fields.

Sun's aspects are very important. Afflicted Sun by some hard aspect with strong malefic may bring infamy.

Sun's dispositor and its relationship to the Sun is also very important. The dispositor will show the origin of the fame of the native.

The dispositor of MC and its Almuten as well the aspects to the MC, will show for what will the native gain fame, because MC represents the native's actions.
Omni, what if the Sun is the ruler of the MC as well as the Almuten of the MC?

My Sun is in the 1st house, Scorpio. It's square the MC, Conjunct. the AC, over-the-earth, diurnal and in no aspect to a malefic (though it is Peregrine).

The Dispositor of my Sun is Mars, which is as well in the 1st Scorpio. My Mars is in Triplicity, domicile, angular (in the 1st Scorpio), direct in motion, free of combustion and the sun's beams, occidental and the Almuten Figuris of my chart. It's also the Almuten of my PoF.

My Mars is as well the dispositor of my MC. The only way my Sun and Mars make a connection is by Mutual Reception by Face.

My Venus as well aspects my MC through a sextile, and is in the 12th house, Libra.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:00 AM
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Re: Rank of Fame

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Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 View Post
Omni, what if the Sun is the ruler of the MC as well as the Almuten of the MC?

My Sun is in the 1st house, Scorpio. It's square the MC, Conjunct. the AC, over-the-earth, diurnal and in no aspect to a malefic (though it is Peregrine).

The Dispositor of my Sun is Mars, which is as well in the 1st Scorpio. My Mars is in Triplicity, domicile, angular (in the 1st Scorpio), direct in motion, free of combustion and the sun's beams, occidental and the Almuten Figuris of my chart. It's also the Almuten of my PoF.

My Mars is as well the dispositor of my MC. The only way my Sun and Mars make a connection is by Mutual Reception by Face.

My Venus as well aspects my MC through a sextile, and is in the 12th house, Libra.
Hi, it would be better if you can post your chart
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Unread 04-27-2012, 08:33 AM
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Re: Rank of Fame

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Hi, it would be better if you can post your chart
Hello, and thanks for taking the time to look at my chart. Sorry as well for not even posting it on my former post, don't even know what I was thinking at the time, not too post it.
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Unread 04-29-2012, 01:05 AM
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Re: Rank of Fame

You have angular Sun on AC, ruler of MC = Honors comes to the Native.
Venus, Mars and Saturn are Occidental of which only Mars aspects the Moon.
Mercury and Jupiter are Oriental but none of them aspects the Sun.
So, the testimony of Mars, being Ascendant Lord and Significator of the Rank - is of great importance here.
Mars in 1st ruling the 6th and 1st in Aspect to the Moon in 5th ruler of 9th.
Natives Fame come through hard work (Mars in 1st rules 6th) and through implying the skills (6th) in relation to Creativity and Arts (5th).
Being of Service is of great importance to the native. The Service contribute to the level of Rank and Fame (10th).
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Unread 04-29-2012, 10:54 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
You have angular Sun on AC, ruler of MC = Honors comes to the Native.
Venus, Mars and Saturn are Occidental of which only Mars aspects the Moon.
Mercury and Jupiter are Oriental but none of them aspects the Sun.
So, the testimony of Mars, being Ascendant Lord and Significator of the Rank - is of great importance here.
Mars in 1st ruling the 6th and 1st in Aspect to the Moon in 5th ruler of 9th.
Natives Fame come through hard work (Mars in 1st rules 6th) and through implying the skills (6th) in relation to Creativity and Arts (5th).
Being of Service is of great importance to the native. The Service contribute to the level of Rank and Fame (10th).
Thanks for the read Omni. I will live my life, and see whether the above indications apply too me. By the way, by "Honors come to the native" do you mean awards and stuff or...?
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Unread 04-29-2012, 11:42 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

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Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 View Post
Thanks for the read Omni. I will live my life, and see whether the above indications apply too me. By the way, by "Honors come to the native" do you mean awards and stuff or...?
It can be
Honors, high status, success at work = all of these stuffs.
Watch out for the Firdaria Sun rulerships and sub-rulerships.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 09:05 AM
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Re: Rank of Fame

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It can be
Honors, high status, success at work = all of these stuffs.
Watch out for the Firdaria Sun rulerships and sub-rulerships.

I'm sorry if I'm being so dense (lately I have been), but do you mean in a negative or positive "Watch out!"? Although the Firdaria Sun (sub-period) won't be here for me till' 2021. Even then it's only part of the Mercury Firdaria.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 12:02 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

Sun in the ninth is fame too I always thought. Worldy fame, expansion of the sun energy I thought. Above that, I have Sun conjunct NN, trine Leo ASC..
And other nice trines to my Sun, like the trine to Mars (exalted in Capricorn)/Neptune in fifth house, and trine to Uranus (4th). Just one malefic: an opposite to Pluto in Scorpio (which is also opposite MC). I don't think that that will bring infamy, because I have much more positive and strong aspects to MC and Sun.
Mars/Neptune is also trine MC, and the best part: Venus in Taurus (strong!) conjunct MC, Jupiter in Pisces (strong, not?) sextile MC.
And if we count the ascendant in, then I have a grand trine between Taurus Sun, Leo asc and mars/Neptune Capricorn. And a grand trine between sun-asc-uranus (sagi). It's 1 earth sign, 2 fire signs and 1 fire sign, 2 earth signs.

Last edited by fullmoonlibra; 04-30-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 12:26 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

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Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra View Post
Neptune in fifth house, and trine to Uranus (4th). Just one malefic: an opposite to Pluto in Scorpio (which is also opposite MC). I don't think that that will bring infamy........ Neptune is also trine MC
.............Neptune Capricorn...............uranus (sagi)
fwiw fullmoonlibra, here is what Omnisphericus said at the commencement of this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
There are many different methods calculating the Rank of Fame in someones chart. I will try here to discuss all the methods of which I'm aware. I will start from a mix of medieval astrology method of seeing the Rank of Fame with that of Ptolemy, and than in some other post I will present some of the Hellenistic methods.
Notice there has been no mention of the outer planets thus far and there is good reason for that i.e. the outer planets were discovered only recently and therefore are unknown in Ptolemy and/or medieval astrology and most definitely the outer planets are entirely excluded as well from any of the Hellenistic methods
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Unread 04-30-2012, 01:59 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

if anyone wants to be kind and help the noobie out
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Aquarius, the fixed air sign, is logical and objective. Can be quite hard-headed.


Aries is the cardinal fire sign: always first, known for being subtle as a sledgehammer.

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Unread 04-30-2012, 03:14 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 View Post
I'm sorry if I'm being so dense (lately I have been), but do you mean in a negative or positive "Watch out!"? Although the Firdaria Sun (sub-period) won't be here for me till' 2021. Even then it's only part of the Mercury Firdaria.
No, I meant 'watch out' in a positive sense.
Not only the Firdaria activations of the Sun (and MC), but also activation of the Sun through Profections (i.e Leo being Profected Ascendant, the sign in which the Sun is placed being the Ascendant in Profections and etc.).
Activations of the Sun or MC through Solar Returns, Directions of the Fortuna, Sun, Jupiter and Mc and etc..
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Unread 04-30-2012, 03:28 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

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if anyone wants to be kind and help the noobie out

1. Both Lights are in Masculine signs - this is excellent for rank and fame.

2. Ruler of 1st in second is good for career. Your primal motivation (Emotional Security, because of Cancer) will be established through career and work.

3. Of all the planets only Venus and Mercury are in Doryphory of the Moon. Saturn is their Almuten and Saturn is in 7th.

4. Mercury, Saturn and Venus are aspecting the Moon by Square.

To summarize.
There will be some recognition through the Moon. I would say you would be helped by Women (Moon) in your career and status.
However, there will be opposition by elder men because of the square from Saturn in 7th. These older men are strong and powerful because Saturn is in domicile.
The square between Mercury and Moon is telling me that in your younger days you will struggle finding your true passion and choice of the type of career.
The success is promised especially in the Moon Firdaria (From 2021 to 2028).
Be aware of possible secret enemies who will be disguised as business partners (Mercury, ruler of 12th in 7th).

Your Pars Hyleg is at 0Libra.
Your destiny is related to Other People and Relations.
I've seen many musicians and artists with Pars Hyleg in Libra.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 03:53 PM
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Indications of Slavery and Adversity in Natal Chart

1. Cadent Luminaries (especially in 12th and 6th house)

2. Luminaries and Benefics are low in the natal chart, especially on the IC.

3. Malefics are angular or succedent

4. Benefics are cadent

5. Dispositors of luminaries cadent or debilitated by sign
(i.e. detriment, fall) or peregrine.

6. The luminaries are afflicted

Robert Zoller:
Quote:
When two or more of these conditions are present in the horoscope you are judging, the native will be someone born to adversity and low social status. In 99.9% of the cases, they will not be an actual slave in the legal sense (i.e. property owned by another human being).
When none of the above conditions are present, you have someone leading a blessed life. Usually, you will find a mixed testimony.
Here's an example.


1. Both Luminaries are cadent (in 12th!) (Yes)
2. Benefics and luminaries are not low in the figure. (No)
3. Saturn the sect malefic is Succedent in the house of Good Daimon. (Yes)
4. Benefics are not cadent. (No)
5.Dispositor of the Moon - Mercury is cadent and peregrine.
Dispositor of Sun - Venus is in Fall! (Yes)
6. Moon is afflicted by being USB and by being cadent. (Yes)

4 Yes out of 6!

Lets now look at some more happy chart.
Look at the chart of Brad Pit above.

1. Luminaries are not cadent. (No)
2. Benefics are low in the figure (Yes)
3. Saturn is cadent, Mars is succedent. (mixed).
4. Benefics are succedent and angular. (No)
5. Dispositor of Sun is angular, of Moon cadent. (mixed)
6. Luminaries are not afflicted. Sun is angular, Moon succedent and conjuncting Venus. (No)

3 No's.
2 Mixed
and 1 Yes.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 04:04 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

Be aware of possible secret enemies who will be disguised as business partners, id say so with every place I have worked at...

thank you so much for your time! I am having trouble understanding the last post
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Aquarius, the fixed air sign, is logical and objective. Can be quite hard-headed.


Aries is the cardinal fire sign: always first, known for being subtle as a sledgehammer.

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Unread 04-30-2012, 04:58 PM
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Ptolemy's 6 Levels of Ranks

God's man

Both Luminaries Masculine. Both angular (or at least one).
Both attended by a Doryphory, oriental to the Sun and Occidental to the Moon.
[ITthe persons born then will become
kings or princes.[/I]

Chieftains/Presidents
If only one of the Luminaries is masculine and only one of them angular then those born will become merely chieftains invested with the sovereignty or power of life and death.

Governor
"Ifthe attendant stars, the luminaries situated as last said, should be neither
in angles nor aspect the angles, the persons then born, will still enjoy
eminence, but only a limited dignity such as that of a delegated governor,
commander of an army, dignitary of the priesthood, but they will not be
invested with sovereignty."


Civil leader
"Ifneither luminary is in an angle and most ofthe attendant stars are neither
in angles, nor aspecting the angles, the native will not attain to any great
eminent rank but will take a leading part in ordinary civil and municipal
affairs."


Undistinguished
"But should the attendant stars have no configuration with the angles
(neither of the luminaries being angular), the natives will remain altogether
undistinguished and without advancement."


Base
"If neither of the luminaries are angular nor in a masculine sign, nor
attended by any benefics, the natives are born to complete obscurity and
adversity."


Lets examine a chart of a president.
Here's the chart of President Obama.


We see that both Luminaries are Masculine.
Both are angular.
Mercury is occidental and is aspecting the Moon by Sextile. It is not angular by division but it is angular by whole signs.
Venus is occidental but is not aspecting the Moon and is not angular. (So it is not in Doryphory).
Jupiter is occidental and is aspecting the Moon. Jupiter is cadent by division but angular by Sign.
Saturn is occidental and is not aspecting the Moon.

In one hand President Obama is having the testimony of being the 1st rank - God's man by the angular luminaries and both masculine; on the other side the Doryphory is not full with the fullest promise. So, the rank would be that of President (2nd). Moon is not heavily afflicted though, so the promise would keep him high on the visible status and rank.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 05:04 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

Looks like this thread has gotten quite popular. That's a good thing!
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Unread 04-30-2012, 05:42 PM
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When the Native will gain the promised Fame in the natal chart?

1. Sun's Firdaria or Sun being sub-ruler of the Firdaria of which ruler is Ruler (or Almuten) of 10th or benefic in 10th.

2. When the Profection of the 10th returns to itself. In years 24, 36, 48, 60 and etc.
If the ruler of the 10th is strong, angular, aspected by Benefics, it will bring recognition when the 10th sign (or house) becomes Ascendant in the Profections.

3. Benefics in the 10th house of the Solar Return (especially the Sun) will bring often the promised success in that year.

4. Examine exalted planets in the natal chart. If they have honors in 10th, or are aspecting the Sun, or are in 11th or 10th or other angular house they may produce fame when they rule the time.

5. Primary Directions of the Sun to benefics or malefics in good state ruling the 10th.

6. Malefics in good zodiacal state and aspected by benefics can bring success and fame but according to their nature. For example, Mars advancement in military fields, Saturn in sciences.

Lets now look at the chart of President Obama. (The chart is given in the post above)
Here's an event:
Social : Great Publicity 17 January 2007 (Announces formation of presidential exploratory committee)


2007 January began the Sun/Venus Firdaria.
Sun ruler of 7th in 7th.
Venus ruler of 4th (Land) and 9th in 5th (Here Venus rejoice).

Year 2006/2007 is a year in which 10th House is on the Profected Rising.
In May 2007 there is Direction of the Sun Sextile Mc.

I don't know where he has been for the time of his birthday and therefore can not cast a Solar Return Chart for the year. But the testimonies above are quite indicating.

Lets now look at this event:

Work : Gain social status 4 November 2008 (Elected President of the US)

This is Sun/Mercury Firdaria.
Mercury is his Almutem Figuris.
It is in 6th and in Doryphory with the Moon.

In that year Capricorn and 12th house came in profected rising.
Saturn - the ruler of the birth chart is now at the Ascendant.

In the 11th month there is this direction:
Saturn Sextile Jupiter.
Two months earlier Moon sextile Sun.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 09:09 PM
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Re: When the Native will gain the promised Fame in the natal chart?

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post

If the ruler of the 10th is strong, angular, aspected by Benefics, it will bring recognition when the 10th sign (or house) becomes Ascendant in the Profections.

3. Benefics in the 10th house of the Solar Return (especially the Sun) will bring often the promised success in that year.

4. Examine exalted planets in the natal chart. If they have honors in 10th, or are aspecting the Sun, or are in 11th or 10th or other angular house they may produce fame when they rule the time.
wow, what a knowledge! thanks for sharing this all, really!
i think i have the things in my chart you mentioned above. could you also check my chart if there is any sign of recognition or fame?
i would really appreciate it, because i need some good news nowadays
for this year i'll have my solar mc in leo, is this significant?
and after reading your thread, i searched for my own lot of fame, it is in libra 15degrees in 3rd. well i always dream of becoming (creative) writer and being a bestselling author what are my chances? Will fame come when having Jupiter transit to the lot of fame?
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Unread 04-30-2012, 10:32 PM
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Re: Rank of Fame

lol exactly what i thought so much knowledge...thanks!
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Aquarius, the fixed air sign, is logical and objective. Can be quite hard-headed.


Aries is the cardinal fire sign: always first, known for being subtle as a sledgehammer.

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Unread 08-06-2012, 09:32 AM
Cascada Cascada is offline
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Re: Rank of Fame

This can't be accurate, surely? I've seen many celebrity charts that didn't have their Sun in those houses..
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Unread 08-06-2012, 10:10 AM
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Re: Rank of Fame

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Originally Posted by Cascada View Post
This can't be accurate, surely? I've seen many celebrity charts that didn't have their Sun in those houses..
Hi Cascada, When you say that you have seen many celebrity charts that "didn't have their Sun in those houses..." - to which houses are you referring?

The celebrities 'didn't have their Suns' in specifically which houses? It would be a good idea if you quote/reference the specific part of Omnisphericus long post that you are referring to. Just that the comment you posted is unclear
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Unread 08-06-2012, 10:24 AM
Cascada Cascada is offline
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Re: Rank of Fame

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Hi Cascada, When you say that you have seen many celebrity charts that "didn't have their Sun in those houses..." - to which houses are you referring?

The celebrities 'didn't have their Suns' in specifically which houses? It would be a good idea if you quote/reference the specific part of Omnisphericus long post that you are referring to. Just that the comment you posted is unclear
Sorry, I was replying to "First we look at the Sun, if it is in 10th or 11th house. In lasser degree fame is indicated also by Sun being in 1st, 4th and 7th."
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Unread 08-06-2012, 10:44 AM
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Re: Rank of Fame

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Originally Posted by Cascada View Post
Sorry, I was replying to "First we look at the Sun, if it is in 10th or 11th house. In lesser degree fame is indicated also by Sun being in 1st, 4th and 7th."
Thanks for clarifying Cascada and having read what Omnisphericus wrote, the answer to your question is already there!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post

This is the general indicator. It doesn't necessarily means that if you have Sun in 10th, you will be famous.

Sun is analogous for Fame, so there fore we first start examining the Sun
.....
Omnisphericus also says
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
There are many different methods calculating the Rank of Fame in someones chart. I will try here to discuss all the methods of which I'm aware.

1. First we look at the Sun, if it is in 10th or 11th house. In lesser degree fame is indicated also by Sun being in 1st, 4th and 7th.
Sun in aspect to the MC brings fame.
Sun in succedent house and especially if it is aspecting the MC can bring fame
. .....


We will examine the other methods in my next post.
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