Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology > Aspects & configurations

Aspects & configurations Discuss here about natal chart aspects and configurations.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 09-08-2011, 03:13 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

I am 89% certain that I have this correctly, but being really new, I wanted to see if I could get corroboration. I have natal Sun in Libra opposed mathematically Moon in Pisces. I say this because my understanding is that really, Libra cannot oppose Pisces, but rather is inconjunct by sign. However...

The question first came up on this forum in a different thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
An eclipse just hours after your birth shall have affected your life somehow. I notice the moon changed signs hours after your birth as well, so your natal moon is in Pisces, but the eclipse after your birth occurred when the moon was in Aries, not Pisces and this could have some bearing on the effects of the eclipse, perhaps lessening the effects? I'm no expert, just something I noticed.
[QUOTE=JUPITERASC;297572]

Sun is at 2*14'37" Libra, and Moon is at 27*45'44" Pisces. Sun declination is 0*53'33 S, Moon 0*19'50" S. That's less than half a degree? (I hate math ) The lunar eclipse on 9/25/1969 occured at 4:21pm, just about 6 hours after my birth. This makes Sun conjunct Moon by Parallel Declination? Should all Lunar Eclipses be read as conjunctions? And if this is correct (a really big assumption!) how would this conjunction be read in a natal chart? I have attached the chart, but which house would it affect? Further, if indeed a conjunction, would that make Moon conjunct and not opposed the Libra stellium?

Thanks to any who reply.

tamara whole sign.jpg

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 09-08-2011, 10:09 PM
miquar's Avatar
miquar miquar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West England
Posts: 3,218
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Hi tsmall. I would definitely read the Sun Moon aspect as an opposition rather than a conjunction. But I think you've raised an interesting point - that at eclipses the luminaries are also parallel, and so this may alter the interpretation of a full Moon which is also a lunar eclipse. I'm a bit lazy when it comes to parallels myself, unfortunately. I suppose I see them as less important than strong midpoint contacts or close minor aspects. I should probably experiment with them a bit more.
__________________
True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment.

Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 118
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 09-08-2011, 11:15 PM
astrologer50's Avatar
astrologer50 astrologer50 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 13,695
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

If you are new to learning astrology, you should really start with more of the basics, before delving this deep into more complex things.


parrallel
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/parallels.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/contraparallel.html
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary3.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/declinationsparallels.html

Contraparallel :
An aspect formed when two planets are in opposite declination, that is, when they are the same distance from the celestial equator, one north of it and one south. Generally considered to operate like an opposition.
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary.html#C
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/

Welcome to the World of Astrology!
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14561

Re: Need some education: Which charts to use when?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17514

Beginning to Study Astrology
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154469&postcount=10
http://www.soulhealing.com/tutorialwest.htm
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-glyphs.php
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-lessons.php
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/chartreading.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets_in_astrology
http://wilsontc.stormloader.com/#continue
( this is our Moderator/Admin Timís website)
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natalastrology.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-lessons.php

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/inner-outer.php
http://moonvalleyastrologer.com/tutorial.htm
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 09-09-2011, 01:00 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi tsmall. I would definitely read the Sun Moon aspect as an opposition rather than a conjunction. But I think you've raised an interesting point - that at eclipses the luminaries are also parallel, and so this may alter the interpretation of a full Moon which is also a lunar eclipse. I'm a bit lazy when it comes to parallels myself, unfortunately. I suppose I see them as less important than strong midpoint contacts or close minor aspects. I should probably experiment with them a bit more.
Hi miquar, thanks for the reply. I had originally read the Sun/Moon as an opposition...who wouldn't with the line clearly there, lol. As I mentioned above though, by sign, Libra cannot oppose Pisces...however, a lunar eclipse viewed from Earth does in fact appear as a conjuntion, doesn't it? Further reading has lead me to question how a Moon conjunct Sun but not combust, would operate in a natal chart. Still hoping someone here can verify that the conjunction exits.

Last edited by tsmall; 09-09-2011 at 01:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 09-09-2011, 04:34 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrologer50 View Post
If you are new to learning astrology, you should really start with more of the basics, before delving this deep into more complex things.


parrallel
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/parallels.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/contraparallel.html
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary3.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/declinationsparallels.html

Contraparallel :
An aspect formed when two planets are in opposite declination, that is, when they are the same distance from the celestial equator, one north of it and one south. Generally considered to operate like an opposition.
http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/Glossary.html#C
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/
astrologer50, thank you for the links. Those to the parallel conjunction I have already read, and they are all stingy with information at best. I noticed however that you bolded the Contraparallel links. Does this mean you read a lunar eclipse as a contraparallel, and stress the opposition? From the data tables available at astro.com, and in any house system, both Sun and Moon in the chart are on the same side of the celestial equator, and not one north and one south as referenced above. Am I missing something? If I am please, show me where?

As far as starting with the basics, I think that understanding one's own natal chart is where we all begin? Sun opposed Moon is quite different from Sun conjunct moon?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 09-09-2011, 08:40 AM
astrologer50's Avatar
astrologer50 astrologer50 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 13,695
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
Hi miquar, thanks for the reply. I had originally read the Sun/Moon as an opposition...who wouldn't with the line clearly there, lol. As I mentioned above though, by sign, Libra cannot oppose Pisces...however, a lunar eclipse viewed from Earth does in fact appear as a conjuntion, doesn't it? Further reading has lead me to question how a Moon conjunct Sun but not combust, would operate in a natal chart. Still hoping someone here can verify that the conjunction exits.
I think you are overanalysing or stressing about just this one aspect really....

I have sun taurus wide orb conj moon aries. but I think my taurus stellium tones down any impulsiveness or impatience of aries.I've bags of patience. with regards to parents (which you must relate back to) they did bascially blend, but at times (like in most relationships) there would be times of opposition/tension and arguments. Basically through jealousy, my parents were hoteliers and he didn't really like her talking to male guests

Quote:
Those to the parallel conjunction I have already read, and they are all stingy with information at best
well if there is not much information on these aspects, shouldn't that be telling you something of how important they are?? if it was there would be tons of stuff out there on them....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 09-09-2011, 11:27 PM
miquar's Avatar
miquar miquar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West England
Posts: 3,218
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Hi tsmall. It is an 'out of sign' opposition because, as you say, the signs involved are not opposite. This makes the opposition less straightforward to interpret in terms of signs, generally speaking. However, in this case, because the Sun and Moon are in many ways natural opposites, and because air (libra) and water (pisces) are opposite elements in terms of the psychological functions they symbolise, it is kind of neat. You have a watery (feeling-orientated) instinctive nature at odds with an airy (intellectually orientated) sense of individuality and creativity.
Using Whole Sign houses the Moon is near the 7th cusp, so the houses affected are the first and seventh. Using any other house system the opposition would fall across the 6th and 12th houses.

Libra and Pisces are both idealistic and romantic in their different ways, so these may be qualities which apply to you, and through which you can unite your Sun and Moon.

However, a look at this opposition is nowhere near complete without noting the square from Mars in Capricorn. Both the civilised Libran Sun (conjunct Uranus too), and the sensitive, empathic moon in Neptune may well feel uncomfortable with Mars, so a further challenge to you may be to find a way of embracing and integrating your healthy aggressive energy. You may be able to fight for your ideals and those you care for, but may be troubled by a fear of being selfish if you pursue your own desires and goals, and when you assert your individuality.

With regard to the eclipse being like a conjunction - it is the earth's shadow which conjuncts the Moon. It would only be an opposition in heliocentric astrology, in which the Sun is placed at the centre of the chart. I would just call it an opposition!
__________________
True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment.

Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 118
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 09-10-2011, 04:43 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi tsmall. It is an 'out of sign' opposition because, as you say, the signs involved are not opposite. This makes the opposition less straightforward to interpret in terms of signs, generally speaking. However, in this case, because the Sun and Moon are in many ways natural opposites, and because air (libra) and water (pisces) are opposite elements in terms of the psychological functions they symbolise, it is kind of neat. You have a watery (feeling-orientated) instinctive nature at odds with an airy (intellectually orientated) sense of individuality and creativity.
Using Whole Sign houses the Moon is near the 7th cusp, so the houses affected are the first and seventh. Using any other house system the opposition would fall across the 6th and 12th houses.

Libra and Pisces are both idealistic and romantic in their different ways, so these may be qualities which apply to you, and through which you can unite your Sun and Moon.

However, a look at this opposition is nowhere near complete without noting the square from Mars in Capricorn. Both the civilised Libran Sun (conjunct Uranus too), and the sensitive, empathic moon in Neptune may well feel uncomfortable with Mars, so a further challenge to you may be to find a way of embracing and integrating your healthy aggressive energy. You may be able to fight for your ideals and those you care for, but may be troubled by a fear of being selfish if you pursue your own desires and goals, and when you assert your individuality.

With regard to the eclipse being like a conjunction - it is the earth's shadow which conjuncts the Moon. It would only be an opposition in heliocentric astrology, in which the Sun is placed at the centre of the chart. I would just call it an opposition!
hi miquar, this is very good.

In exploring house systems, I found that, for me, a 1st house stellium, with Sun in Libra but in fall made more sense than a Sun in 12th, because if the Sun is in the same sign as the ASC it cannot be cadent. Also, Venus as ASC ruler in 12th and in fall works better than Venus in 11th. I do know that it is the Earth's shadow that forms the conjunction, and was only referring to what it "looks like" when we see it. Both of the bolded descriptions are spot on, and placing the moon in 7th (partnerships) opposing sun in 1st, squaring Mars in 4th (home) makes the description all the more appropriate. Thanks again for taking the time to look and reply.

I do still wonder though about the possibility of a conjunction at a Lunar eclipse. Will perhaps continue to investigate.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 09-10-2011, 05:15 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrologer50 View Post
I think you are overanalysing or stressing about just this one aspect really....

well if there is not much information on these aspects, shouldn't that be telling you something of how important they are?? if it was there would be tons of stuff out there on them....
Thanks for the reply, astrologer50. Perhaps I am overanalysing or stressing, or perhaps just trying to understand better the two luminaries in my chart.

Regarding "tons of stuff out there on them," there are perhaps two or possibly three lunar eclipses in a year, aren't there? Meaning that, while several thousands of people will be born shortly before, during, and after one, the vast majority of full moon births will be without an eclipse, and therefore simply a Sun opposed Moon aspect. Cafe Astrology says this

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/sunmoonaspects.html

Quote:
Unless the conjunction occurs in different signs, those people born with Sun in conjunction to the Moon have a "double dose" of the same sign. That sign assumes more importance than usual. Because the wants (Sun) and the needs (Moon) are aligned, these people have marked singleness of purpose. Generally, they come across as rather uncomplicated in terms of what they want out of life and their means of getting to that place. They are able to make decisions without too much struggle, simply because it is not their tendency to spread themselves around in order to find all of their options. Some people with this aspect are self-centered, but this is not always the case. Subjective, yes. Decisive, yes. Focused, yes. But ignorant of others' needs? Not likely.
The description of the conjunction fits me perfectly, but yet the opening phrase is all that is given regarding out of sign conjunctions. My guess is that because this happens so infrequently in relation to the vast number of births that occur (meaning affecting thousands, not millions) there probably isn't going to be "tons of stuff out there on them?"

Last edited by tsmall; 09-10-2011 at 05:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 09-10-2011, 10:19 AM
miquar's Avatar
miquar miquar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West England
Posts: 3,218
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Hi tsmall. Good luck with your endeavours. Perhaps it would be relevant which way round the Nodal axis was too - i.e. North Node conjunct the Sun or North Node conjunct the Moon. Some people associate the South Node with habits remaining from the past (sounds very lunar) and the North Node with qualities needing to be developed in order for consciousness to increase (sounds very solar). So perhaps if the South Node is conjunct the Sun, and the North Node conjunct the Moon, there would be a merging of Sun and Moon energies.

Taking the Nodal axis to mean the kinds of associations you will make with others, having both the Sun and the Moon on the axis may bring them together through these associations, too.

However, without wanting to challenge your own perceptions of how your chart manifests, I would point out that your case is far from a straightforward example of a lunar eclipse. I didn't register it fully before but your Sun Moon opposition is part of a very large T-square, involving Sun, Moon, Mars, Chiron, Uranus and Pluto, as well as the Nodal axis. Some of the aspects involved in this are very close.

Although you said you could identify with the part about not feeling comfortable with asserting your own desires, this T-square suggests that nonetheless you are capable of being single minded - Sun square Mars, conjunct Uranus, conjunct Pluto - despite the sensitivities to others shown by the Libra and Pisces prominence.

I would also point out that in this case, the opposition of Sun and moon does not fall particularly close to the Nodal axis, and indeed the Sun is already over ten degrees separating from its conjunction to the South Node.

I'm inclined to tentatively speculate that the part of you that identifies with the Sun conjunct Moon quote that you posted is actually reflected in parts of your chart other than the Pisces Moon, and not in a merging of Sun and Moon through their contact with the Nodal axis. Do you feel in touch with your Pisces Moon? - whatever else is happening in the chart, you should look to cultivate the qualities associated with that planet sign placement. Even someone with Sun at one degree Aries and Moon at 29 degrees Pisces would need to do this - despite the 'New Moon' general interpretations telling them that they are single minded and decisive, they still have that rather diffuse and malleable Pisces Moon to feed!

I would urge anyone looking at their chart to keep a sense of proportion between the factors - to look for the prominent themes in one's life in the prominent chart factors before looking to more obscure and hypothetical to explain things. But I also respect your need to question and explore.
__________________
True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment.

Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 118
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 09-10-2011, 11:35 AM
JerryRR JerryRR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 573
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Hi Tamara,Bil Tierney looks at dissociate aspects in his book,"Dynamics of Aspect Analysis.
Quote.
"We are perhaps as guilty as most modern astrologers in failing to give adequate recognition to parallels of declination.It sometimes happens that the heavens will find an opportunity of bashing the student across the head,so that his attention is drawn to something important."(Chernobyl)
page 134,"Eclipses." Appleby/McCann.

25 September.
MO P UR
SU P MO
SU CP MO
MO CP UR

J.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 09-10-2011, 02:09 PM
astrologer50's Avatar
astrologer50 astrologer50 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 13,695
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

miqir,

that was the most tactful, thoughtful response I have read in ages, well done. I wish I could wright like you do at times...

Last edited by astrologer50; 09-10-2011 at 08:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 09-10-2011, 06:40 PM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryRR View Post
Hi Tamara,Bil Tierney looks at dissociate aspects in his book,"Dynamics of Aspect Analysis.
Quote.
"We are perhaps as guilty as most modern astrologers in failing to give adequate recognition to parallels of declination.It sometimes happens that the heavens will find an opportunity of bashing the student across the head,so that his attention is drawn to something important."(Chernobyl)
page 134,"Eclipses." Appleby/McCann.

25 September.
MO P UR
SU P MO
SU CP MO
MO CP UR

J.
Hi back. Is that a yes, no, or both happened on the same date?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 09-10-2011, 08:29 PM
miquar's Avatar
miquar miquar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West England
Posts: 3,218
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Hi Astrologer50. Thanks so much for your very kind words.

Hi tsmall. I think JerryRR is saying that at the all of those parallels and contraparallels were within orb at the moment that the Chernobyl reactor blew. Though I don't understand how Moon was both parallel and contraparallel with Sun and Uranus at the same time? Maybe JerryRR could clarify?
__________________
True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment.

Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 118
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 09-10-2011, 08:46 PM
astrologer50's Avatar
astrologer50 astrologer50 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 13,695
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi Astrologer50. Thanks so much for your very kind words.
you are more than welcome, after all the challenging threads and personal attacks I've gone through on here past few days, it's so nice to so eloquent pose and real understanding of astrology rather than the wannabe's

Just wish I had time and patience to write like that, did it come easy/natural or did you have to really think about it? my mercury retro would have to take time, dwell on things and do drafts, edit, edit again and the poss come out with a materpiece. I can do it but takes a lot of effort....
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 09-10-2011, 09:25 PM
miquar's Avatar
miquar miquar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West England
Posts: 3,218
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

I do sometimes spend half an hour or so just writing one post, but the way I communicate about astrology is the way that comes most naturally to me - I couldn't force the words out in any other way. Thanks again for your encouragement.
__________________
True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment.

Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 118
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 09-10-2011, 10:01 PM
JerryRR JerryRR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 573
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

25 September 1969

MO P UR 09:31
SU P MO 10:14

MO 0N 13:17

SU CP MO 16:43
MO CP UR 17:05
SU P UR 23:34

The American Ephemeris 1931 to 1980,Michelsen.

Rudhyar looks at this moon phase in his book "The Lunation Cycle."

J.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 09-10-2011, 10:19 PM
miquar's Avatar
miquar miquar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West England
Posts: 3,218
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

I see, so Moon was parallel Sun and Uranus in the morning, crossed the ecliptic at 13:17 and then was contraparallel Sun and Uranus by the evening because everything was so close to the ecliptic. Then Sun was parallel Uranus by the end of the day. Yes very striking - I should look at the chart for the explosion some time. Thanks JerryRR.
__________________
True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment.

Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 118
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 09-10-2011, 10:58 PM
JerryRR JerryRR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 573
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Hi M,
Chernobyl explosion,25 April 1986,23:23:40 GMT 51N20 30E20.
Asc23Cap49 MC27Sc12.
Lunar Eclipse 24 April 86 12:47.

Appleby/McCann 1989 The Aquarius Press.

J.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 09-11-2011, 12:46 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar View Post
I do sometimes spend half an hour or so just writing one post, but the way I communicate about astrology is the way that comes most naturally to me - I couldn't force the words out in any other way. Thanks again for your encouragement.
Hi miquar, I also think your posts are well thought out, and very well written. I appreciate the time you have given to this thread and will hopefully have time to compose a response this evening.

I think JerryRR was saying that the parallel happened in the morning, then the eclipse, then the contraparallel, as you suggested. I am supposing that would read as conjunction, eclipse and then opposition?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 09-11-2011, 04:32 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi tsmall. Good luck with your endeavours. Perhaps it would be relevant which way round the Nodal axis was too - i.e. North Node conjunct the Sun or North Node conjunct the Moon. Some people associate the South Node with habits remaining from the past (sounds very lunar) and the North Node with qualities needing to be developed in order for consciousness to increase (sounds very solar). So perhaps if the South Node is conjunct the Sun, and the North Node conjunct the Moon, there would be a merging of Sun and Moon energies.

Taking the Nodal axis to mean the kinds of associations you will make with others, having both the Sun and the Moon on the axis may bring them together through these associations, too.

However, without wanting to challenge your own perceptions of how your chart manifests, I would point out that your case is far from a straightforward example of a lunar eclipse. I didn't register it fully before but your Sun Moon opposition is part of a very large T-square, involving Sun, Moon, Mars, Chiron, Uranus and Pluto, as well as the Nodal axis. Some of the aspects involved in this are very close.

Although you said you could identify with the part about not feeling comfortable with asserting your own desires, this T-square suggests that nonetheless you are capable of being single minded - Sun square Mars, conjunct Uranus, conjunct Pluto - despite the sensitivities to others shown by the Libra and Pisces prominence.

I would also point out that in this case, the opposition of Sun and moon does not fall particularly close to the Nodal axis, and indeed the Sun is already over ten degrees separating from its conjunction to the South Node.

I'm inclined to tentatively speculate that the part of you that identifies with the Sun conjunct Moon quote that you posted is actually reflected in parts of your chart other than the Pisces Moon, and not in a merging of Sun and Moon through their contact with the Nodal axis. Do you feel in touch with your Pisces Moon? - whatever else is happening in the chart, you should look to cultivate the qualities associated with that planet sign placement. Even someone with Sun at one degree Aries and Moon at 29 degrees Pisces would need to do this - despite the 'New Moon' general interpretations telling them that they are single minded and decisive, they still have that rather diffuse and malleable Pisces Moon to feed!

I would urge anyone looking at their chart to keep a sense of proportion between the factors - to look for the prominent themes in one's life in the prominent chart factors before looking to more obscure and hypothetical to explain things. But I also respect your need to question and explore.
Hi miquar. I truly understand your caution to keep a sense of proportion about what may or may not be happening in a chart. I also do not mind at all if any experienced astrologer is willing to take the time to help me see where I am wrong in interpretations. Everyone was new at one time, and the only way we can learn to correctly understand is to try, and to have others show us where we are correct or incorrect in our thinking.

For a little history on how I came to ask the original question, in exploring my chart I was able to find much information about the aspects, and houses, some of which resonated, and a lot of which did not. Based on further study, I realized that what was missing was an indepth description of how planets behave in signs, as opposed to houses. This led me to look into more traditional interpretations of planets in signs, which then led to a "kinship" with whole sign. So I set about to understand each of my planets by sign, degree, rulership, terms, bounds, et. al. In my learning, I believe that though planets might be in aspect by mathematical degree, their sign and house position could or would negate the aspect. Some astrologers state unequivocally that out of sign aspects can happen, while others say just as strongly that they in fact cannot. The jury is still out for me on which to follow, but one needs to start somewhere.

Further, when using whole sign, and again after only two months I may have this incorrectly, planets are in their houses/signs. Period. Meaning that Moon in Pisces in 6th is in 6th, not 7th. This makes sense when one considers that in either Placidus or Equal house (both of the currently most used house systems) the "cusp" of the 7th would fall at 12* Aries in my chart, placing it approx. 15* away from my moon. If you looked at the chart in your preferred house system, you likely wouldn't describe the opposition as being between the 1st/7th houses?

Going back to the idea (just consider?) that out of sign aspects don't occur, we are looking at a Perigrine moon in Pisces in 6th house (house of servants/service to others,) cadent, whose traditional ruler is Jupiter, in detriment in Libra, (though accidentally dignified in the 1st house,) but inconjunct by sign with it's ruler, as well as inconjunct by sign and house with the Sun. Okaaayyy...but, that would mean Sun and Moon can't "see" each other. As you asked above, "Do I feel 'in touch' with" my Pisces Moon? Um, yes, so "in touch" it's almost scary, lol. So, sun and moon not seeing each other also doesn't work for me. Buuuttt...

I randomly found this thread here on AW,
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...161#post277161

with this post by dr. farr

Quote:
There are a couple of other ways (beside Cazimi) a planet can be "conjunct" the Sun yet free from combustion:
1) when the planet and the Sun are "conjunct by latitude" as the oldtimers called it (Al-Biruni, etc): that is, when the Sun and the planet are within about 1 degree (to 1.5 degrees) of declination (both either North or South of the ecliptic) In this circumstance the planet and the Sun might well be quite distant in longidtude and not necessarily either combust nor even under the sunbeams...

2) when the planet and the Sun are "conjunct by nature", a type of conjunction fully recognized as such by the ancients (and even as late as the Renaissance period) in which the Sun and the planet each occupy the exact degree in equipollent signs: for example, say Sun is @ 20 Aries and Jupiter is @ 10 Pisces: they are "conjunct by nature" because each planet is exactly the same distance from the "Line of Truth" (the Aries/Libra line); the Sun and Jupiter in this example are in fact the same as being either longitudinally conjunct or conjunct in latitude (Parallel in Declination), but, of course, Jupiter is nowhere near combust or under the sunbeams.

These concepts go back a long time:
-conjunct in latitude to at least 400 AD
-equipollent conjunction (conjunct by nature) to even earlier Greco/Roman times

Parallel of Declination is applied, strangely enough, more in Modernist astrology than in Traditionalist practice...Conjunct by nature (equipollent conjunction) has been forgotten by almost all practitioners, except perhaps a few of the neo-Hellenistic school.
So, wow, that applies, within 1/2* degree, both planets (Sun and Moon) below the horizon. A look at the tables, and parallel declination also applies, again within 1/2*. Parallel lattitude, and declination, led me to the OP, which is..are Libra Sun and Pisces Moon conjunct in this chart?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 09-11-2011, 04:45 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

For me, the answer is that they are AS IF IN STRONG CONJUNCTION since they are in close Parallel; that means their influence would be as if Sun and Moon were conjunct, but WITHOUT the combustion that would otherwise have been involved IF they had been conjunct in longitude.

Further, I follow the doctrine that a P trumps a conjunction in longitude.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 09-11-2011, 05:28 AM
tsmall's Avatar
tsmall tsmall is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 3,114
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
For me, the answer is that they are AS IF IN STRONG CONJUNCTION since they are in close Parallel; that means their influence would be as if Sun and Moon were conjunct, but WITHOUT the combustion that would otherwise have been involved IF they had been conjunct in longitude.

Further, I follow the doctrine that a P trumps a conjunction in longitude.
Thank you, dr. farr.

Since they are conjunct, with the moon in both the terms (Ptolemaic and Egyptian) and face of Mars, in this chart exalted in Capricorn, would that provide any reception for the square between Sun in 1st and Mars in 4th?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 09-11-2011, 08:43 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

This I cannot answer, since I have little experience with analysis using terms (which I long ago abandoned in favor of the monomoiria) and the often convoluted issue of arcane reception concepts as developed in medieval astrology.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 09-11-2011, 02:56 PM
miquar's Avatar
miquar miquar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West England
Posts: 3,218
Re: Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

Hi JerryRR. Thanks for putting up that chart data.

Hi tsmall. I've been really glad of this thread and will look more closely at parallels and contraparallels in the future. Thank you.

As for whether, in Whole Sign houses a planet approaching the cusp of the next house is considered to be in that house (as is the case with other house systems) I do not know. It would make sense I suppose if the same rules applied to houses as signs in the Whole Sign system, since the sign and house cusps are so tightly bound together - i.e. it is where is is, and not in the house/sign it is nearly in.
__________________
True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment.

Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 118
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
conjunct, libra, moon, pisces

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Astrological Parts. Known and Unknown...a project piercethevale Astrological Parts 241 06-19-2018 08:22 PM
Moon Conjunct the Ascendant «edyze Natal Astrology 26 09-26-2014 08:39 AM
New moon in Libra conjunct my Pluto..what to expect??? 4leafclovah Transits 2 09-24-2008 03:33 PM



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.