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Unread 01-23-2010, 03:29 PM
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DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Retrogrades in the nutshell
RETROGRADES IN DETAIL, by TIKANA

As you may know or noticed, the only 2 objects in our galaxy that do not go retrograde are Sun and Moon. The rest of them do.

In reality, planets do not go retrograde they are always direct but we on Earth can and do observe reverse motion which leads people to believe a planet is going backwards. As a result of such planetary motion, a retrograde planet in natal/transit/progressions charts will be greatly affected.

Some astrologers have a theory that a retrograde planet is a window, showing you who you were in a previous life and what you brought into this life which is still unresolved.

A lot of people have a planet that changes direction from direct to retrograde or vice versa after a few days of their birth. (because one day is the equivalent of one year in astrology, the person then can have a retrograde planet turn into a direct one after a few years of life, or vice versa) It has been mentioned in a few sources and my notes from the people I have studied, that if their natal planet is retrograde and it turns direct after a few days (=years), the natal planet in retrograde motion will still play a bigger role and the direct motion will have less impact on an individual.

So for example, an individual has Venus Retro, a few days later Venus went stationary then direct. That individual will still have a strong Venus’s retrograde effect EVEN THOUGH logically speaking, a retrograde Venus should be less powerful than direct. I can only explain this, by assuming that the very retrograde planet has the ability and capability to change its perspective more powerfully than a direct planet. Unfortunately, we cannot really test the effect of direct and retrograde condition on a person after a few days because the individual might be too young.

My other guess is that direct planets moves faster than a retrograde planet.
With a retrograde planet, you will end up having either aspects (e.g., opposition, square, etc.) or no aspects to a direct planet, or an aspect to another retrograde planet.

I think with a retrograde planet in your chart, there is a strong indication of adaptability and flexibility when it comes to its ability to express itself. If it doesn't oppose any planets, a retrograde natal planet is its own boss. Not only that, but it has no strict restrictions to control the retrograde planet and its force. It does not abide by any rules or regulations. I have noticed that retrograde planets with no other planets to aspect them, will be very free in their behavior.

We cannot say the same for a retrograde planet that’s in opposition with another natal planet . An opposition is basically a tug of war. Compromise is absolutely necessary. When you have a direct planet opposing a retrograde planet, the potential for growth and understanding (its true potential) is very limited.

Also, with this aspect you might end up losing control over the houses involved and have a strong desire or an internal never-ending battle between what is strong in you and what is weak in you. You may retreat and hide and try not to bring it out in the open which MAY create a self-destructive personality but that is rare. I haven’t seen that many self-destructive people with that opposition. There are usually other indications.

If a retrograde planet is conjuncting the direct oriented planet, the retrograde planet is in no way, shape or form weaker than any direct planet nor loses its own natural energy when turning direct, UNLESS there should be an opposition present. Retrograde planets express itself in a rebellious matter when the native least expects it. Of course, the location and rulership of such a planet should be analyzed to see how expressive the retrograde planet is.

Once you break down the retrograde planet in the chart and understand how a retrograde planet or planets express themselves in your chart, studying the house or houses should be analyzed next. Usually, I start with identifying in which group or groups your retrograde planet or planets are/is placed in.

The subjective domain group is placed from 10th through 3rd group. If there is a planet or planets that are located in any of those houses, the individual will need to learn lessons through his/her need to control life. Often, any number of retrograde planets show that the person is unable to have faith in him/herself.

The Objective domain group is located between the 4th and 9th house. Retrogrades in this section point to a person who is likely to have a lot of uncertainties and indecisions towards what he/she wants out of life.

If all of your retrograde planets are located above the horizon, there is a strong need for public life and often times; it is hidden on the subconscious level. This person will have to learn to be out in the open and go after success on his/her own. I have noticed that people with above the horizon retrogrades tend to drive extra hard to get to their goals. Often their frustrations and prohibitions are triggered by early childhood experiences and parents/guardians expectations of them.

Retrogrades below the horizon behave quite differently. If retrogrades above the horizon call on the individual to be out there in the open, retrogrades below the horizon call such individuals to have an eternal need for privacy and internal happiness. They tend to be more introverted without understanding why, nor having an ability to be more outgoing unless there are indicators of outgoing personality in the natal chart. I have looked at twelve individual’s charts and I could not figure out why these people who have literally nothing in common astrologically and personality had a strong need to sway the spotlight away from them and without arousing public attention.

In one case, a five year old child had a predominant number of planets below the horizon. Every time his parents would mention his great piano skills, the child would just take off to another room and cry. I narrowed it down to planets below the horizon but then I started paying attention to retrograde planets. It maybe a coincidence but this is what I noticed.

When I originally began my search for astrological explanation to define direct and retrograde planetary direction, I did not start with house location but I started with looking into quadrants.

References
Rohini Ranjan - Retrograde Planets: Another Perspective
Martin Schulman - Karmic Astrology: Retrogrades and Reincarnation
Yott, Donald H. Retrograde planets and reincarnation
Ingrid Naiman - Reincarnation and Retrograde Lecture notes
Saturn and reincarnation - By Jeanne Avery
PATTERNS OF THE PAST, The Birthchart, Karma & Reincarnation - Judy Hall
YESTERDAY'S SKY: Astrology & reincarnation - Steven Forrest
PAST LIVES, FUTURE CHOICES, The Astrology of Reincarnation - Maritha Pottenger
ASTROLOGY & PAST LIVES - Mary Devlin
COSMIC KARMA: Understanding your contract with the universe - Marguerite Manning
KARMIC ASTROLOGY: Past lives, present loves - Ruth Aharoni
DISCOVERING YOUR SOUL MISSION: How to use karmic astrology to create the life you want - Linda Brady & Evan St. Lifer
EYE OF THE CENTAUR, A visionary guide into past lives - Barbara Hand Clow
UNDERSTANDING RETROGRADES - Helen J. Adams
MORE ABOUT RETROGRADES - Helen Adams Garrett,
RETROGRADE PLANETS Transversing the Inner Landscape - Erin Sullivan
YOUR HIDDEN POWERS: Intercepted Signs & Retrograde Planets - Joanne Wickenburg,
Subtleties of Medical Astrology By Dr. K S Charak
Synthesis & counseling in astrology: the professional manual By Noel Tyl
Retrograde Planets: Traversing the Inner Landscape By Erin Sullivan
Astrology By Sanat Kumar Jain
The Complete Book of Spiritual Astrology By Per Henrik Gullfoss
The modern text-book of astrology By Margaret E. Hone
An astrological study of psychological complexes By Dane Rudhyar
Complete Astrology: The Classic Guide to Modern Astrology By Alan Oken
Evolutionary Astrology: Pluto and Your Karmic Mission By Deva Crystal Green
ABC of the Old Science of Astrology for Beginners By Sidney Randall
Astrology, Archetypes and Insight By Chandra Sammons
The Astrology of Family Dynamics By Erin Sullivan
Self-Evident Astrology By Jeffrey Sayer Close
Astrology for initiates: astrological secrets of the western mystery tradition By Papus, J. Lee Lehman
Elements of Astrology By L. D. Broughton
Chaldean Astrology By George Wilde
An astrological study of psychological complexes and emotional problems By Dane Rudhyar
Astrology for the age of Aquarius By Jan Kurrels
The Stars: A New Way to See Them By H. A. Rey
Astrology - Its Technics and Ethics By C Aq Libra
Astrology and Its Practical Application By E. Parker, Coba Goedhart
Astrology, science of knowledge and reason By Ellen H. Bennett
The outer temple of witchcraft: circles, spells, and rituals By Christopher Penczak
Practical Astrology: A Simple Method of Instruction in the Science of Astrology By Alan Leo
Astrology, psychology, and the four elements - Stephen Arroyo
Astrology: 30 Years Research By Doris Chase Doane
The elements of reincarnation By A. T. Mann



[Moderator note - this post has been copied over from the main article, "Retrogrades in the nutshell", posted by the author on the 'Education Board' of the forum, in order to start this thread. Its purpose is to provide a place for the readers to discuss the article and have an educational dialogue on the subject.
A long reference & reading list compiled by the author can be found on the main thread on the 'Education Board'.]

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Last edited by starlink; 01-25-2010 at 09:32 PM.
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Unread 01-24-2010, 01:05 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Thanks for the Article

Some brave astrologers have a theory that a retrograde planet is a window, showing you who you were in a previous life and what you brought into this life which is still unresolved. Is this theory legitimate?



I've never heard of or read about this..I'd be interested in reading up about that.


A lot of people have a planet that changes direction from direct to retrograde or vice versa after a few days of their birth. (because one day is the equivalent of one year in astrology, the person then can have a retrograde planet turn into a direct one after a few years of life, or vice versa)

Most beginners won't understand about Progressing a chart.Perhaps we need to clarify that part.


We cannot say the same for a retrograde planet that’s in opposition with another natal planet . absolutely necessary. ...
Also, with this aspect you might end up losing control over the houses involved and have a strong desire or/and even internal never ending battle between what is strong and what is weak. You may retreat and hide and try not to bring it out in the open which MAY create a self-destructive personality but that is rare. I haven’t seen that many self-destructive people with that opposition. There are usually other indications.


I'd be interested in seeing an example of that. But I don't agree here with this interpretation....again, sources...There are retrograde planets in the charts of many *successful* non destructive people..celebs etc..


Personally I found the red disclaimer to spoil the look of the thread.
But you've obviously spent some time and effort on this so I'm sure we all appreciate it.It's great to see members writing for the Ed Board.
Lilly
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Last edited by lillyjgc; 01-24-2010 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Spacing,clarification...
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Unread 01-24-2010, 02:08 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haizea View Post
Interesting reading, tikana.

I only have one retrograde planet, and don't know much about it because it is mysterious Neptune (who knows what's his whereabouts? ) in the 4th, for you to go on with your research...If I ever have any clear idea of what this Neptune is supposed to be, I'd share it.


Yeah me 2 .. only 1 retrograde *sniff*
I have Neptune in 4th but not retro.

T
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Unread 01-24-2010, 06:02 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Hey Rum Baroness... I think you did an excellent job. It looks good to me. V/r LionKing
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Unread 01-24-2010, 06:08 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

I have Pluto retrograde in the 1st!
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Unread 01-24-2010, 06:39 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

no astrological comment

Last edited by flea; 01-24-2010 at 09:49 AM. Reason: no astrological comment
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Unread 01-24-2010, 09:58 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Tikana,

I have always been puzzled by my retrogrades...your thoughts have given me some thought. I have jupR in 1st Gem and MercR in 6th Sagittarius. Both in detriment, though placed well as far as the houses go. MercR is also conjunct the south node.

The retrogrades as I have exterienced.....I dont really have a jovial manner, more internalised, though to some I come across with a Pollyanna view of life. I also seem to have luck out of bad situations.....silk purse out of sow's ear kind of thing.

I have a strong intellect....do a lot of self thinking. The one think I have noticed through living is that it has been an effort to use my intuition which is strong...just got ignored.

I think about past lives more on a soul level.....so all the chart can point to what you most need for soul development. Though.....I seem to be working on the gemini sagg polarity rather a lot in this lifetme....so it is as if something needs another look at. I feel I am now integrating my intuition into my mercurial capacity....with NN in gem in 12th.

Thanks for the topic Tik....
FleaXXX
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Unread 01-24-2010, 12:17 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

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Unread 01-24-2010, 03:31 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

WOW MD! THANKS.. GREAT INFO! keep on writing

hugs
T
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Unread 01-24-2010, 04:45 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Hi Tik, Mechanical Design! Very nice posts indeed. We are reviewing Tiks article as she mentioned and I would love to add this post of MD as well. Is that OK with you Mechanical Design? Please let me know. Thanks.
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Unread 01-24-2010, 05:25 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

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Unread 01-24-2010, 05:49 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Excellent, thanks for your attribution to this forum. Much appreciated

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Unread 01-24-2010, 11:33 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Very interesting read!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikana
Objective domain group is located between 4th and 9th house. Retrogrades in this section point to a person who is likely to have a lot of uncertainties and indecisions towards what he/she wants out of life.

If all of your retrograde planets are located above the horizon, there is a strong need for public life and often times; it is hidden on the subconscious level. This person will have to learn to be out in the open and go after success on his/her own. I have noticed that people with above the horizon retrogrades tend to drive extra hard to get to their goals. Often their frustrations and prohibitions are triggered by early childhood experiences and parents/guardians expectations of them.
My two planets in retrograde, 9th house Pluto and 7th house Saturn are in square, definately would show a window to past karma that I am working through now, they are tough ones! Definately uncertainties more so when I was younger but even now still. Both those planets are in aspect to my 2nd house Venus/Mercury both direct (Mercury is progressed retrograde however now..), need to asimilate that one.
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Unread 01-24-2010, 11:39 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanical Designs View Post
Saturn Retrograde

* feels inside that they're never good enough
* indulgent outward behavior may mask inner feelings of inadequacy
* hides fears


Pluto Retrograde

* keeps their chin up during crisis because .....
* they want to keep inner upheavals private
* they get what they want by acting like they don't care


This is also a fasinating read. Both of the above are true for me. All this info will help me figure out my Pluto/Saturn square.

Thanks Tik and MD!
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Unread 01-26-2010, 06:05 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

i think this article will help
http://www.illuminatetoday.com/astro...horoscope.html
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Unread 01-28-2010, 03:54 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

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Originally Posted by Neptune Rising View Post
This is also a fasinating read. Both of the above are true for me. All this info will help me figure out my Pluto/Saturn square.

Thanks Tik and MD!
I have six planets retrograde:

- Mercury in Pisces --> 5th House
- Mars in Virgo --> 9th House
- Jupiter in Virgo --> 9th House
- Saturn in Virgo --> 10th House
- Uranus in Virgo --> 1st House
- Pluto in Libra --> 11th House

This is quite a lot of planets retrograde in my birthchart. What does this mean?
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Unread 01-28-2010, 04:09 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Hey

Well i did cover that in 2nd part of the tutorial sort of brushed it through .. mods i think are checking

T
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Unread 01-28-2010, 06:50 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Quote:
Just like a bell curve (Normal Distribution Curve) in Mathematics . The Middle phase of any Retrograde planet does affect more than starting and ending phase of the Retrogration cycle.
I love MD's post, but the implications of the bell curve confuse me. I've read in multiple sources that the stationary phases are the most powerful in the retrogration cycle, which occur during the transition between direct motion and retrograde motion. Therefore, shouldn't the beginning and end phases of the retrogration cycle be the most powerful, energetically?

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Unread 01-29-2010, 12:14 PM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

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Unread 12-31-2015, 12:09 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

This article was very helpful in getting a deeper understanding for retrogrades. I've just recently started researching astrology and have a pretty good grasp on the basics of retrogrades. However, I recently noticed something odd about the Pluto retrogrades that I'm trying to get clarification for relating to the shadow zones. I was compiling a list of retrogrades based on when they enter the shadow zone, go retrograde, then direct and then exit when I noticed this year (2015) Pluto went direct on Sept 24 and was scheduled to leave the exit shadow zone on Jan 15. But then, to me, there seemed to be a conflict with Pluto's next retrograde cycle starting because it was scheduled to start on Dec 28 before it left the previous cycle. I found out this isn't really a conflict and it can and actually does happen several times with Pluto's cycle. I also found out that it has something to do with the degree. I still haven't figured out how all the degrees of everything works yet, so I was wondering if maybe anyone could maybe explain what is happening for Pluto to overlap his retrograde cycles like this? Thanks.
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Unread 12-31-2015, 12:39 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arian Maverick View Post

I love MD's post, but the implications of the bell curve confuse me.
I've read in multiple sources that the stationary phases are the most powerful in the retrogration cycle, which occur during the transition between direct motion and retrograde motion.
Therefore, shouldn't the beginning and end phases of the retrogration cycle be the most powerful, energetically?

Arian Maverick
RETROGRADES - GREGORY ROZEK http://gregoryrozek.com/en/astrology...grade-planets/
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Unread 12-31-2015, 12:41 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anoep View Post

I have six planets retrograde:

- Mercury in Pisces --> 5th House
- Mars in Virgo --> 9th House
- Jupiter in Virgo --> 9th House
- Saturn in Virgo --> 10th House
- Uranus in Virgo --> 1st House
- Pluto in Libra --> 11th House

This is quite a lot of planets retrograde in my birthchart. What does this mean?
RETROGRADE PLANETS AND THEIR NUMBER IN THE NATAL CHART http://gregoryrozek.com/en/retrogradeplanets/

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Unread 12-31-2015, 01:56 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

JupiterASC...very cool article so far. It's gonna take me a while to finish reading it, but I can already tell it's going to be a point of reference to keep coming back to as I learn more.
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Unread 12-31-2015, 02:16 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystar View Post

JupiterASC...very cool article so far.
It's gonna take me a while to finish reading it, but I can already tell
it's going to be a point of reference to keep coming back to as I learn more.

Mystar Rozek has some excellent research published there


Moogs views on RETROGRADATION thread discussion may be of interest at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...532#post370532

William Lilly wrote:

“Every planet that is retrograde sheweth slownesse.”

then categorizes a retrograde planet
as having an accidental debility rating of -5 points.


However
in many of Lilly's examples
retrograde planets do not always show debilitated or negative outcomes

– that's because although theoretically
Lilly considers retrogradation not a good thing
due to the regular motion of the planet being impeded -
hence the accidental debility rating of -5 points

- nevertheless
the outcome is entirely dependent on the particular significations of the planet in the particular chart




Anachiel also notes that conversely
- there are circumstances when Lilly interprets events happening quickly and unexpectedly

for example:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post

Interesting.
There may be something to that as well in horary;

RX applications
one signifcator RX and the other direct
applying to each other
cause things to happen more quickly, or suddenly
than normal direct applications of significators.

Lilly's examples include ones where Retrograde planets can signify negative outcomes
such as the return of an illness.


Lilly gives examples of retrograde planets with positive outcomes as well
- as in for example, the return of lost or stolen possessions
the return of people from a journey
the return of sailing ships
the return of missing animals
the return of someone who has been imprisoned
the return to health after illness
and the return of a loved one
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Unread 12-31-2015, 03:07 AM
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Re: DISCUSS - Retrogrades in the nutshell

JupiterASC,
I just started looking deeper into all the astrology back in September and have been doing a lot of reading about retrogrades. I was noticing all the articles people were writing about Mercury retrogrades and they all seemed to be more negative than positive about it. Being new to it all, I knew Mercury was a Gemini planet so I focused a lot more researching Mercury. I was facing an important decision back between September and October and read that plans and travel might be delayed or it might not be a good time to make travel plans, so I ended up cancelling them to look into it more. I started going over things that had been happening through this last year and where the Mercury retrogrades fit into the key points in the year and I found that all the positive points happened while Mercury was in its retrograde cycle (from the pre-shadow to the post-shadow periods) and all the negative points were happening between Mercuy retro cycles. So it seems to me that Mercury retrogrades work in my favor and it's kinda refreshing to know I'm on the right track with it because it was really starting to bug me about the negativity I was reading about concerning retrogrades. I'm sure for some people it can be negative, but it just seemed like there was more focus put into the negative than a balance of positive.
I'm still learning how to read my chart, but Mercury was direct in Gemini, so I'm thinking this might be part of why the Mercury retrograde works in my favor. Mars and Neptune were both retrograde in my chart as well as ceres, juno and pallas. I don't know how the last 3 fit into all that yet.I decided to stick with the major planets first. I have found some aspect patterns formed with those three and a Grand Trine with the moon, mars and chiron...and a kite with mercury in opposition of mars.There's some pretty cool reading here so far for sure.
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