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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 06-20-2006, 07:57 AM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Discussion on the Natal Promise

I was just wondering about the natal promise in the chart, because apparently,no matter what your transits are in the chart it is not going to happen if it is not promised in the Natal chart.

I read that to find how many relationships you can have is represented by the sun and what aspects it makes to your slower moving planets before your sun leaves it's sign.I have three aspects on mine so three relationships are promised for me.I am on my second relationship now so i can potentially have one more if this one doesn't workout.

Also how many children you can have is in your chart I was promised 4 children I think,I have one child and i am 27 yrs old,but because of birth control these days it is really the potential to have 4 children depending on your choice.

I am really interested in this and I think i will look into it more to see what else I can find out from my natal chart.

Does anyone have any more ideas or information on the Natal Promise.

bxp40387.jpg


Last edited by Miss Saturn; 06-22-2006 at 02:47 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 06-20-2006, 12:24 PM
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Lorielle Lorielle is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Interesting. Are you, or have you read Carol Rushman's book on predictive astrology? She is big on the natal promise. I tend to agree with it.

In my chart, it shows that I'm likely to not have children. I am 45 years old, have no children, have never wanted them, and it's a bit late to be getting started now. LOL

I am "promised" 3 marriages... and I fully intend on being married one more time. Actually, 3 significant relationships. I've had scores of "this is it, he's the one" type of relationships. Due to wearing my heart on my sleeve. But 2 marriages...

Jupiter rules my MC, and this indicates luck in careers, where you just "happen" into a job, being in the right place at the right time... and this has been true.

I have Jupiter in the 12th which indicates (supposed to) that I will be providentially provided for. Very true. Just when I wonder how in the world I'm going to be able to pay for something, something comes along or happens, that "saves the day."

There are other things...

Lori
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Unread 06-20-2006, 12:51 PM
Rubella Rubella is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

I've never heard of this... can you be a bit more specific as to where to look in my chart to see the number of relationships, etc' I should have?

Thanks
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Unread 06-20-2006, 02:05 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Hi Lorielle,

Yes I have read Carol Rushmans book on predictive astrology and it is excellent.Here is what I have in my chart.


MarriageANB037.jpg


I have three aspects in my chart,Saturn,uranus and neptune.Three marriages/relationships are promised for me.Carol also says that these aspects can describe the type of man you will have a relationship with.My first partner was on drugs,this must be my neptune,he was also controlling I think this may be saturn.Also unpredictable,uranus.

My current second partner is a few years older than me and very much into his career(saturn)he used to be an alchoholic before he met me(neptune)and he loves his freedom(uranus).

If this current relationship ends I have one more potential for another relationship.

Also for marriage where the ruler of the seventh is placed can indicate were you will meet your partner, my ruler of 7th is in the 4th house so close to home for my relationships.My venus is placed in my 5th house so out socializing and having fun.This must mean I will meet my partners at nightclub/social place close to home.


Children102-00460.jpg

I have four aspects which show I have the potential for 4 children in this lifetime whether I choose to use is my choice I have one child so far.The aspects made by the ruler of the fifth house before it leaves the sign are supposed to describe each of your children as well.


Divorce456R-1382.jpg

Indicators of divorce in my chart,is the ruler of my first house squares the ruler of my seventh house.I have venus square pluto in my chart and this can indicate divorce because of the intensity of this aspect,also when the relationship is over it is truly dead there is no way of even being friends.I also have mars square uranus so this may be strong wills and an urge to breakaway from the relationship.Well my first relationship ended very badly we absoloutly despised each other at the end so no love lost there.My current relationship I don't want it to end but who knows what the future holds.

Moneyaw4791tn.gif

I have venus oppose jupiter sextile uranus so I am hoping to win some money.Probably be when a transiting planet triggers it.Fingers crossed.

Sucessjad0008.jpg

I have my sun in the seventh house so sucess comes through relationships.I have my nodes in angular houses which can bode well for sucess.I have a node in the 7th house so if iIwent into business I would attract lots of clients.
I think with my sun in the 7th house it has progressed in the 8th house and so I think this would reflect in my partner earning a higher income.I would assume, if your sun was in the first house it will eventually progress to the second house so maybe women with this placement would have a partner with a high income also.


I think a lot of things have come true for me too in the natal promise,and other things have come true, with carol rushmans explanations on the progressions and transits.

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 06-22-2006 at 02:51 PM.
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  #5  
Unread 06-20-2006, 02:21 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Hi Rubella

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubella
I've never heard of this... can you be a bit more specific as to where to look in my chart to see the number of relationships, etc' I should have?
To determine how many relationships you can potentially have here is what you do.

Use only the major applying aspects,conjunction,square,opposition,trine,and sextile.

For a woman look at her applying aspects her natal sun makes before it leaves a sign.The sun can only apply to the slower moving planets mars,jupiter saturn, uranus, neptune and pluto.

Say if her sun is at 18 degrees taurus in her natal chart,keep moving it forward and find what aspects it makes before it leaves the sign taurus.Only use the slower moving planets as listed above for the aspects.Don't forget move the sun anti clockwise i.e heading towards gemini.
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  #6  
Unread 06-20-2006, 04:31 PM
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Lioness725 Lioness725 is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

I'm very confused by this and I'm not sure how to do it. I am interested in learning. Perhaps someone can offer a website to help me learn?
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  #7  
Unread 06-20-2006, 05:01 PM
Lucy33 Lucy33 is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Hi, I'm also very confused about this but extremley interested. maybe somebody could explain in more detail? chart below... Many thanks

born on 10 Jan 1973 local time 01:00 pm
in Bonn-Bad Godesberg, GER U.T. 12:00
7e05, 50n44 sid. time 19:47:48
________________________________________
Planetary positions
planet sign degree house motion
Sun Capricorn 2007'19 09 direct
Moon Pisces 2820'58 12 direct
Mercury Capricorn 0858'37 09 direct
Venus Sagittarius 2822'19 08 direct
Mars Sagittarius 0723'00 07 direct
Jupiter Capricorn 2002'02 09 direct
Saturn Gemini 1441'05 01 retrograde
Uranus Libra 2255'54 06 direct
Neptune Sagittarius 0631'46 07 direct
Pluto Libra 0425'18 06 stationary (R)
True Node Capricorn 1645'54 09 retrograde

House positions (Placidus)
Ascendant Taurus 2350'40
2nd House Gemini 1844'59
3rd House Cancer 0654'40
Imum Coeli Cancer 2500'27
5th House Leo 1754'55
6th House Virgo 2451'44
Descendant Scorpio 2350'40
8th House Sagittarius 1844'59
9th House Capricorn 0654'40
Medium Coeli Capricorn 2500'27
11th House Aquarius 1754'55
12th House Pisces 2451'44

Major aspects
Sun Conjunction Jupiter 005
Sun Square Uranus 249
Sun Trine Ascendant 343
Moon Square Venus 001
Moon Opposition Pluto 604
Moon Sextile Ascendant 430
Mercury Square Pluto 433
Venus Sextile Uranus 526
Mars Conjunction Neptune 051
Mars Sextile Pluto 258
Jupiter Square Uranus 254
Jupiter Trine Ascendant 349
Uranus Quincunx Ascendant 055
Neptune Sextile Pluto 206
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  #8  
Unread 06-20-2006, 05:35 PM
Amit89 Amit89 is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

I'm dont get this fully aswell, I'm new to all this anyway, I'v got the sun, mercury, and jupiter in the 10th house, so the jupiter makes me lucky in my proffesion.......the sun has promised me success in life, and mercury may indicate that my job might have to do with travelling, communications, IT. Correct me I I'm wrong.

I'v got:

Sun opp neptune
Sun opp Uranus
Sun opp Staturn
Sun trine Pluto
Sun sextile moon

Mercury conjunct jupiter
Jupiter conjunct midheaven (Gemini)
Jupiter sqaure acsendent (Virgo)

Mercury conjunct midheaven (Gemini)
Mercury sqaure acsendent (Virgo)

All of these aspects are in my 10th house.
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  #9  
Unread 06-20-2006, 06:32 PM
Missa Missa is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

I dont quite agree with this. There are people who have unaspected suns - yet have had many happy relationships. And what about those people who literally have tons of relationships during life? Their sun cant make 17 aspects And people who will stay single their whole life, even though their sun makes many aspects (try monastery and ask for their birth times).
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  #10  
Unread 06-20-2006, 07:48 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Hi Missa,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Missa
I don’t quite agree with this. There are people who have unaspected suns - yet have had many happy relationships. And what about those people who literally have tons of relationships during life? Their sun can’t make 17 aspects… And people who will stay single their whole life, even though their sun makes many aspects (try monastery and ask for their birth times).
Obviously yes there are other factors to take into consideration, having sagitarious on the descendent or jupiter placed here can bring lots of relationships.People who may not choose to be in a relationship may have saturn placed in the 7th house or capricorn on the ascendent they limit thier own possibilties for a relationship but the potential is thier in the chart they are not using it either by not helping to create oppurtunities for themselves by not getting out there to meet people.

If you have strong uranus in your chart,you might enjoy your independence too much for a permanent relationship.You would have to look at the chart as a whole and take everything into consideration.The natal chart is full of potential to be used but does everybody use it.Your chart may say your a talented writer does that mean you use your talent do you put it to any good use,but the potential is there if you choose to use it.

I don't know about you but i have never heard of anyone having 17 relationships and I am talking about committed relationships not just flings or affairs.I am not asking you to apply any of this in your study of astrology,you might have another system you prefer to use.This is a system I have read about and it works for me i see it working in my chart.when I am asking for more information on the promise of the natal chart i think it will help me better with my interpretations and prediction charts.If it doesn't help me then I won't use it but i am always open to new ideas to test out for myself.You work differently to me not every astrology student works the same I myself am still setting up a system of what I will use and what I prefer not to it's all personal choice.

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 06-22-2006 at 02:54 PM.
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  #11  
Unread 06-20-2006, 07:50 PM
Amit89 Amit89 is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

I know a famous person who had 6 failed marragies.
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  #12  
Unread 06-20-2006, 08:18 PM
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Missa: Im also crtical about this technique. But Im still interested...

Ive checked for pregnancy and child issues with some birth charts:

Chart n1: Belongs to my grandmother.
Chart n2: Belongs to my mother.
Chart n3: Belongs to one of my mothers co-worker
Chart n4: Belongs to one friends of mine

All of these chart belongs to women that no longer may have kind. One curious detail is that my grandma and ma (and me) have asc in gemini (25 gem, 29 gem and 29 gem in that order), so our 5th house are in scorpio. I sometimes take pluto as ruler of scorpio, but Im using in this case mars (which is also ruler of scorp)

Chart n1: 5th house is empty. Mars is in 6 scorpio,... if I try all aspects:

First it conjuncts with Neptune at 7 Virgo, then conjucnts jupiter at 13 Virgo, then sextiles pluto at 21 Cancer and finally trines Chiron at 28 Taurus. She was pregnant 4 times and had 4 children.

Chart n2: 5th house is empty. Mars is in 8 capricorn,..if I try all aspects:

First it opposes uranus at 20 cancer (my older sis has uranus rising), then squares neptune at 23 libra (Neptune is opposed to my asc and her asc too, my mars is at 1 46' Libra opposed to her mars), then mars conjuncts retrograde chiron at 28 capricorn. She was pregnant 3 times, only two girls were born, she lost her 3rd child.

Chart n3: 5th house is not empty, but Ill try this new technique:

Venus is the ruler of 5th at 23 Scorpio, the only aspects that I found was trine mars at 27 Cancer. But... she has two kids!!
I will check with more birthcharts, but in the case I came up to the conclusion that if the 5th house is not empty, we should check planets the house first. She has Libra in her cusp and her sun and mercury are located there,.... two planets, two kids (too literal?)

Chart n4: 5th house is not empty, Saturn conjunct Naptune are there. Moreover:

Libra is also on the 5th house cusp: Venus is at 20 capricorn only applies to... Saturn and Neptune both at 23 Libra with a square. Actually this women never had kids nor wanted them. Im doubtfull,... maybe she was pregnatn two times but lost them , maybe she secrtely has two kids and I didnt notice... Or maybe I should see that Saturn (limitations) conjucnt Neptune (illusions) square both lords (venus) in capricorn again "limitations", make her, no matter that she could have had kids, she never wanted them.


you may now make you conclusions
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  #13  
Unread 06-20-2006, 08:28 PM
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

I have sagitarius in the 6th and 7th cusp (but in this house I also have capricorn)
Jupiter is in my 4th house
Jupiter is also co-ruler of my 9th

I hope that means I will be very lucky in work, home, relationshipss, travel and college!!!
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  #14  
Unread 06-20-2006, 09:45 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Hi, Mary,

Since you took the time to try the method before you criticised it i will write the full explanation for you from the book I got this information from.You seem very bright and at least open to trying new ideas.


Children

Regarding children as I have said before I am promised 4 children yet i only have one child at the moment and I am 27 unless I have twins and another single child or triplets I don't see myself as having 4 children but as the book explains it's about the potential.


The number of children promised in the chart is not necessarily the number we choose to have.With the invention of the birth control,couples are not having all the children promised in either the woman or the mans chart.The couple may decide not to have a large family. However,They can usually get pregnant whenever they want to.They are fertile but they are using birth control.If you don't use birth control you will manifest all that energy.


The number of applying aspects to the fifth house ruler is the potential number of children you can have.(elect to have).
These aspects can describe your children.Any planets in the fifth house will describe your children in some way.A lot of times people will have two planets in the fifth house and will have two children.Each planet will describe one of the children.Sun in fifth can mean a leo child,or that child will be the main focus of their lives.That child may be famous remarkable or stand out in some way.Gemini on the fifth house cusps or gemini prominent who have twins

Some people have ten or twelve children and there is no way you can have ten or twelve applying aspects to the ruler of the fifth house,but these women may have jupiter in thier fifth house or strongly connected to the ruler of the fifth.People make choices they are exercising free will and choosing to limit thier families.

If it is a clients first marriage look to eleventh house for adopted children or stepchildren.The eleventh house will describe the relationship to those children.Count around the wheel to every other house for each sucessive child.The second adopted child or stepchild will be defined by the first house,the third by the third house and so on.

For granchildren,look to the ninth house.Because it is five houses from the fifth house of children.It will describe your childrens,children.

Hopes this helps to clarify things for you with a more detailed explanation.All I am tryiing to do is give information on what I have learned and hopefully recieve ideas from people on the forum, it is your choice to disagree with them or use the techniques in your own astrology learning.If you know of any other techniques for determining relationships or number of children work etc.I would love to know i am open to any other methods.I will try them out for myself, and maybe add it to my astrology work.

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 06-22-2006 at 02:57 PM.
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  #15  
Unread 06-20-2006, 10:01 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Can someone tell me what happened to my pictures on my natal promise reading it doesn't look as good now.I'm sure everyone hates me today.


as3769tn.gif So you get my snub hmph...... just kidding
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  #16  
Unread 06-20-2006, 10:05 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Oh I just checked again and there back



as2997tn.gifThank you.

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 06-22-2006 at 02:58 PM.
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  #17  
Unread 06-20-2006, 10:25 PM
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Missing pictures

Saturn,

You have to be logged into the site in order to see your pictures.

Explaining,

Tim
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  #18  
Unread 06-20-2006, 10:48 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Thanks Tim I feel like a rightani-bani.gifbanana.

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 06-22-2006 at 02:58 PM.
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  #19  
Unread 06-20-2006, 11:10 PM
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Lorielle Lorielle is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Find the degree of your natal Sun. Look to see how many planets it aspects (major aspects) before changing sign... Only planets. (Not angles, cusps, asteroids, Chiron, Vx, etc.)

In my natal chart, my Sun is in the 1st house 8 Pisces 40'.

The first major aspect my sun makes would be a trine to Neptune @ 11 Scorpio 15'. (Marriage #1.)

The second major aspect my sun makes is a sextile to Saturn @ 26 Cap 03'. (Marriage #2).

The final aspect the sun makes before leaving signs is a sextile to Jupiter @ 26 Capricorn 58'. (Marriage #3).

Hope this makes sense...

Lori
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Unread 06-20-2006, 11:14 PM
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Lorielle Lorielle is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Lucy wrote:

Quote:
Planetary positions
planet sign degree house motion
Sun Capricorn 20°07'19 09 direct
Moon Pisces 28°20'58 12 direct
Mercury Capricorn 08°58'37 09 direct
Venus Sagittarius 28°22'19 08 direct
Mars Sagittarius 07°23'00 07 direct
Jupiter Capricorn 20°02'02 09 direct
Saturn Gemini 14°41'05 01 retrograde
Uranus Libra 22°55'54 06 direct
Neptune Sagittarius 06°31'46 07 direct
Pluto Libra 04°25'18 06 stationary (R)
True Node Capricorn 16°45'54 09 retrograde
Looking at your chart, I see 2 marriages or significant relationships. Your sun at 20 Capricorn 07' makes a square to Uranus in Libra, then it makes a sextile to your Moon in Pisces.

Keep in mind, this doesn't necessarily indicate that you are absolutely going to have 2 marriages, but the potential is there for more than one.

Lori
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Unread 06-21-2006, 03:01 AM
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Smile Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Thanks, Miss Saturn!

As for major relationships and/or marriage: My Sun is at 7 Taurus, and it sextiles Venus in at 22 Pisces, and then Conjucnt Mercury at 23 Taurus.
So, Two serious relationships,... Im in my second one, actually Im very happy with my actual relationship.

In my natal chart, Sun is opposed Jupiter inat 5 scorpio, but its a separating aspect I did not take into account.


I also did the same thing with my actual partner, with the moon, obviously... His moon (25 Cancer) makes only one applying aspect: trine saturn at 28 Scoprio. Actually Im his first serious relationship, will I be the one for him? I hope so.
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  #22  
Unread 06-21-2006, 04:38 AM
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Do you count aspects that the sun is already making in the natal chart? What if it is 'passing' or 'coming into' aspect?

Also, does the order of new aspects in any way indicate the timing of the potential relationships? Would any sort of progressed chart indicate timing?

Last edited by Howl; 06-21-2006 at 04:46 AM.
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Unread 06-21-2006, 07:09 AM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Here is the aspects that represent my mum and sister's relationships.

mums birth date 17/04/1956 place england,liverpool.birth time unknown

Sun is at 27 Aries

Sun makes an applying square to uranus at 28 degrees
Sun makes an applying opposition to neptune at 29 degrees

This indicates that she has the potential for two relationships.The first relationship was with my dad,he died over 8yrs ago.

She is now in a relationship with a man 16yrs younger than her.

My dad was an aquarious (uranus) he could'nt work the last few years before he died due to feeling too weak due to athritis I'm thinking this may have a link to (neptune)

Her second relationship, he is quite uranus in some of his actions and he is an alcoholic (neptune) my mum also has venus in gemini, he is younger than her,and also a gemini.



sister 27/11/1982 england,liverpool

Sun at 4 sagitarius

Sun in applying sextile to saturn
Sun in applying conjunction to neptune
Sun in applying sextile pluto
(her sun is just slightly leaving uranus so I have chose not to use this unsure)

My sister is 23yrs old and she has the potential for three relationships.

Her first relationship she kept secret for a bit(pluto)he used to smoke canibis (neptune)and he was into criminal activities(pluto).My sister has venus in sagitarius and he was a sagitarius.

Her second relationship criminal charges against him (pluto) he has been done for drink driving when he crashed his car(neptune alcohol).My sister has venus square uranus in her chart and her boyfriend works a lot.

She has the potential for one more relationship.

This is how I have seen the indicators for relationships work.

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 06-22-2006 at 03:00 PM.
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  #24  
Unread 06-21-2006, 03:48 PM
Rubella Rubella is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Miss Saturn,

Thank you for the explanation! if I understood correctly, it will go this way:
My sun is at 29'59 degrees in Aries ( 7th house ), which means I don't have to move it to the end of the sign to see the aspects since it is already there

I have Sun trine Neptune, Sun trine Uranus, Sun trine Saturn and Sun opposition Pluto. Which means I will have four meaningful relationships in my life. Only had one so far, he was mentally ill and a genius, very manipulative... I can't decide which aspect he represents because he seems to have a bit of all of them! was a very destructive relationship.

Does it mean anything that three of the planets ( Neptune, Uranus and Saturn ) are in the same house? the 3rd house.

About the children... I have to confess myself dissapointed, and worried. I seem to have only one aspect from the ruler of my 5th, Uranus, to one of the planets you mentioned: Uranus conjuct Saturn. All of the other aspetcs don't seem to be indicative of children. Does this mean I only have a potential for one child? and does it mean the child, will be from the man whose relationship with him is represented by Uranus or Saturn?

I have a moon in capricorn in my 4th house and a "hurt" venus in the 6th ( square uranus, square saturn ), which I heard also indicates lack of fertility. So does this give validate the fact I have a chance of being childless?

Does a Jupiter in the 7th helps me at all to counter this? :-\

Thanks again!
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  #25  
Unread 06-21-2006, 08:23 PM
pixie1982 pixie1982 is offline
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Re: Discussion on the Natal Promise

Hi Miss Saturn!
you say your sister has 3 aspects -
Sun in applying sextile to saturn
Sun in applying conjunction to neptune
Sun in applying sextile pluto

(this interests and worries me because they are almost identical to my 3, and we are both 23)

My worry is that you say she has the potential for one more relationship, but surely at 23 will will have lots more?
Like her I have had two relationships , one of which matches perfectly the pluto/saturn/neptune type - he was very controlling/intense/emotionally abusive and had mental problems. it was a very destructive relationship.

Will me and your sister only have one more relationship, or will all relationships tend to be like that?
wish i didnt have the pluto!!!

Last edited by pixie1982; 06-21-2006 at 08:26 PM.
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