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  #1  
Unread 10-14-2009, 06:08 PM
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Childhood Sexual Abuse?

]I have been seeing a therapist for about a year now, currently undergoing a series of heavy Pluto transits- Pluto Square Mars and Pluto Conjunct Mercury. A lot of OLD stuff has been coming back to haunt me; I have been very angry and afraid and it has taken a toll on my relationship. I have been feeling a lot of anger and hatred towards men and their approach to sexuality; I always picture that women are being used and men are just there to enjoy themselves. I have had this opinion for many many years and it has "popped up" in my relationship; I have started to feel worthless and that sex means nothing to men (and therefore, to my boyfriend). I talked to my therapist about this today and she thought it "a red flag" that I expressed such hatred towards men in general. We traced these feelings back and I feel very uneasy about something that may have happened in my childhood. There is something there that wants to be acknowledged that I can't quite remember but is the answer to all these problems I'm having. She and I both suspect I was sexually abused as a child. So, I took a look at my natal chart, but I don't see any "classic" indicators of sexual abuse such as Mars Square Pluto and Venus Square Pluto, or harsh aspects to Lilith. My AC ruler is Mercury in the 8th house, squaring Mars. Could that be the key? I know the current transits I am undergoing with Pluto bring old stuff to the surface and force the native to confront issues so that they can transform themselves. Can anyone help me see what I may be missing? My natal chart is attached.
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Last edited by normak; 10-14-2009 at 06:28 PM.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 07:03 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

You have intercepted Taurus (self-worth) and Scorpio (sex) respectively in 12th house of "victims" and 6th house of "servants"......with Cancer (caring) and Capricorn (control) respectively duplicated on the cusps of the 2nd/3rd and 8th/9th houses, suggesting an erroneous attitude about "self vs others".

So, my guess is that the progressions and transits relating to these interceptions and duplications might be what you need to look at further.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 07:19 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

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Originally Posted by EJ53 View Post
You have intercepted Taurus (self-worth) and Scorpio (sex) respectively in 12th house of "victims" and 6th house of "servants"......with Cancer (caring) and Capricorn (control) respectively duplicated on the cusps of the 2nd/3rd and 8th/9th houses, suggesting an erroneous attitude about "self vs others".

So, my guess is that the progressions and transits relating to these interceptions and duplications might be what you need to look at further.
I do often feel worthless and have for most of my life (intercepted houses 6/12), but that would speak more of self-esteem issues and less of a childhood sexual abuse "signature." My relationship with my father was definitely emotionally abusive and I have a lot of blanks in my memory in general from childhood. I have always had suspicions but haven't wanted to try to remember.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 09:13 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

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I do often feel worthless and have for most of my life (intercepted houses 6/12), but that would speak more of self-esteem issues and less of a childhood sexual abuse "signature."
The issue is disempowerment......sexual abuse is one way in which that might have occurred, but not the only way......Is your objective is to find the true cause of your current feelings, or to confirm what you and your therapist "suspect" (but which may not have happened in reality)?

Why have you often felt worthless for most of your life?......Do you believe such feelings make abuse by others more or less likely?
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Unread 10-14-2009, 09:35 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

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Originally Posted by EJ53 View Post
The issue is disempowerment......sexual abuse is one way in which that might have occurred, but not the only way......Is your objective is to find the true cause of your current feelings, or to confirm what you and your therapist "suspect" (but which may not have happened in reality)?

Why have you often felt worthless for most of your life?......Do you believe such feelings make abuse by others more or less likely?
I think it was a combination of a sensitive disposition and upbringing. I do think it may have caused such abuse to be more likely than if I hadn't already been predisposed to feeling bad about myself.

I know there was sexual abuse and have been trying to get to the bottom of it, but I don't see any "classic indicators" in my chart.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 11:11 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

Normak, my heart goes out to you. I hope you find inner peace no matter how difficult your early circumstances.

Oftentimes abuse shows up as sun-Pluto or moon-Pluto conjunctions or oppositions. The chart that Vinyasa posted does show a wide sun-Pluto opposition.

Self esteem issues in your chart would be indicated by your sun-Neptune conjunction squared by Mars. The sun is your sense of identity, but Neptune dissolves what it touches, making it difficult for you to get a solid sense of self. Mars can be the man or men in your life, suggesting that they may show up in your life as people who don't care about your need to establish a solid identity.

Moon square Venus can also suggest difficulties in developing a positive sense of your own femininity. BML on your DC can further suggest feelings of discomfort and of being strongly "not OK" in a one-on-one relationship. With Sagittarius on your DC, you may further be attracted to "play the field" types who would not have your own interests at heart. This sign is ruled by Jupiter, the god who promiscuously bedded assorted goddesses, nymphs, and mortal women. Juno was always jealous and sometimes vindictive towards him, so it is interesting that Juno conjuncts your DC, as well.

Was Dad a problem drinker or drug user? I would wonder with this configuration. If so, he may well have been emotionally abusive, but without necessarily crossing the line into sexual abuse. Were there other males in your childhood (brother/s, uncle, male neighours or family friends) who might have abused you, if any abuse took place?

One planetoid I hadn't considered in this context is Ceres. You probably know the myth of "the rape of Persephone", in which Ceres' [Greek Demeter's] daughter was dragged off into the underworld by her uncle Pluto, and tricked into becoming his queen. Ceres got her back for half the year, but Persephone/Proserpina lives underground for half the year. Jupiter figures in this myth because, as King of the gods, he could have ordered Pluto to release her, but did not until Ceres strongly took matters into her own hands. You've got that interesting Pluto/Jupiter/Ceres conjunction, so if you're unfamiliar with the myth, you might take a look at it.

One thing to avoid is false memories. Once childhood incest really surfaced in the 1980s, a few well-meaning but uninformed therapists pressured highly suggestable children to report sexual abuse, even without much evidence that it had taken place. Hopefully the therapists on this Forum can advise you about best practices today.

One type of evidence, however, is post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). This can involve "splitting" in which your mind momentarily disengages from reality, notably during stressful moments. Nightmares and flashbacks could be another symptom. Any precocious childhood sexual activity on your part. I think Freud thought that serious animal phobias could be another indicator of an abusive father.

With all good wishes for your happiness, W.

Last edited by waybread; 10-14-2009 at 11:18 PM.
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Unread 10-15-2009, 01:45 AM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

Hi Normak,
i have found that significant aspects to saturn,chiron and pluto or their midpoint positions are always found in abuse charts.

in you case, the mars/chiron midpoint is square to pluto with mars sesquiquadrate to chiron.this by itself could show a young male or sibling.

your venus/chiron midpoint is square to your sun which also can indicate abuse.

your venus is opposed to the saturn/chiron and pluto/chiron midpoints,with the double midpoint of saturn/chiron and pluto/chiron exactly opposed venus.this configuration is square to jupiter which bring into consideration an authority figure,uncle or since moon is conjunct jupiter,a grandparent.Jupiter can show systematic abuse as often the problem has existed through the years and was always swept under the proverbial rug.
with the venus/mercury midpoint square to saturn and the saturn/pluto midpoint,the father figure is symbolized and this configuration can indicate surpression of memories as it can show very early abuse.with jupiter and saturn involved inthese patterns,it is more likely that this is a systematic family dysfunction.

rahu
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Unread 10-15-2009, 03:29 AM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

Hi All,

I found this post, and the subsequent responses very helpful. I too am a survivor of sexual abuse, specifically incest, having occurred (and later repeated) at a young age (I was three) at the hands of my maternal grandfather. If I remember correctly, this had to also do (also meaning that in addition to what others have mentioned), the venus-chiron square involving the sixth house which connects directly to the maternal grandfather.

I also was subjected to the abuse by my parents, of which is heavily evident when utilizing synastry between our respective charts.

I have provided my chart here and if anyone was/is curious about "signatures" of abuse, please feel free to view.

I've also included some asteroids because if I remember correctly, a few of them are also indicators.

If anyone has anything to add regarding my chart, that would much appreciated.

Thanks everyone!

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi...1L-u1108330500
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Unread 10-15-2009, 04:56 AM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

I agree with Waybread here.

One thought could be that with this heavy pluto transit you may be feeling powerlessness. Rapes and metaphors of the sort that you are experiencing could be some form of powerlessness you are experiencing in your life.
Could be thoughts of a male that is bossing you around, say a male boss at work.
Could be seeing someone treat someone wrong, male to female.
Could be a time in your life where you feel uneasy or unsafe.
Could be you feel intimidated in your daily life...

See these things could all be subtle cues (as examples) that your mind is telling you that you have been taken advantage of, feel unsafe, feel wronged, and feeling powerless in your life to make changes...
Which can lead to feeling this anger towards men.

I think looking at a dream interpretation book may help. I think by entertaining ideas that you were molested without any knowledge could place seeds in your mind that you were abused.

I hope that you were not, and pray that things turn out okay. I think though that you hit the nail on the head with those transits and your feelings. Pluto can make you feel powerlessness in order to elicit change within to grow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Normak, my heart goes out to you. I hope you find inner peace no matter how difficult your early circumstances.

One thing to avoid is false memories. Once childhood incest really surfaced in the 1980s, a few well-meaning but uninformed therapists pressured highly suggestable children to report sexual abuse, even without much evidence that it had taken place. Hopefully the therapists on this Forum can advise you about best practices today.

One type of evidence, however, is post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). This can involve "splitting" in which your mind momentarily disengages from reality, notably during stressful moments. Nightmares and flashbacks could be another symptom. Any precocious childhood sexual activity on your part. I think Freud thought that serious animal phobias could be another indicator of an abusive father.

With all good wishes for your happiness, W.
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Unread 10-15-2009, 05:41 AM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

normak - 2 things......
Firstly, hard Chiron-Moon placements, specifically Chiron opposing, square or inconjunct natal Moon can indicate an invasion of one's boundaries while young, and before one's personal boundaries have been fully defined. I notice that you have quite a wide opposition between Chiron and Moon, and that Modcleopatra possesses the inconjunct. These placements have been found in those who have been sexually abused, and they have also been found in the charts of those who were severely punished, or else had mothers who wanted to know everything they did and with whom - thus a boundary invasion.

Secondly, I still grapple with the beliefs about males which you describe, normak, and I was never sexually abused. But the males in my family of origin were severely abusive - but it was not until I was in my mid 50's that I recognised their behaviour as such. My mother taught me that they were just `boisterous', or `naughty', probably to let herself off the hook as their parent! The kinds of beliefs you possess around men may not be as a result of sexual abuse, but there is a high likelihood that there has been some kind of inappropriate behaviour towards you by men/boys, even if it is put-downs or teasing.
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Unread 10-15-2009, 06:31 AM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

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Originally Posted by Modcleopatra View Post
...I too am a survivor of sexual abuse...having occurred (and later repeated) at age three at the hands of my maternal grandfather.......If anyone has anything to add regarding my chart, that would much appreciated.
Hi Mod......Good to hear from you again, and thanks for posting your chart (which provides another example of known, rather than suspected, sexual abuse for us to compare with Normak's).

Since other members are better equipped than me to focus on "sexual abuse signatures", I'll focus again on the interceptions here :-

You have Scorpio (power) duplicated on the 10th/11th house cusps and Taurus (self-worth) on the 4th/5th......suggesting that doubts about your self-worth might enable others to disempower you......And, with Scorpio on the 10th cusp and Pluto on the MC, disempowerment through sexual abuse is strongly indicated.......[At age 2/3, progressed MC crossed natal Pluto and your grandfather began sexually abusing you].

It's also worth noting that......natally, you have Aries (self-awareness) and Libra (awareness of others) intercepted on the 3rd/9th house axis of communications.....but from the age of 1 to 9, progression changed this to Pisces (victims) and Virgo (servants) on the 2nd/8th axis of "self-worth and sex" (values).......

......So, from age 1 to 9, your progressed intercepted signs were giving the same astrological message as Normak's natally intercepted signs.

EJ

Last edited by EJ53; 10-15-2009 at 06:38 AM. Reason: corrected an error
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Unread 10-15-2009, 02:38 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

Thank you everyone for your kind responses and for taking the time to look at my chart. I have been working with a therapist for over a year now and the focus has been the years of emotional abuse I suffered at the hands of my father from middle school on and the simultaneous neglect from my mother. However, I have always felt that something sexually inappropriate happened in childhood that I can't remember, but I haven't thought to discuss it with my therapist until now. I have always had this feeling; my therapist hasn't planted false memories or made any particular suggestions as to what may have happened. However, I am certain something happened, and maybe these Pluto transits have been forcing these old emotions and memories to emerge so that I am forced to confront them. What I am trying to determine is where the natal potential for sexual abuse is in my chart, since I didn't see any classic signatures. Thank you for everyone's feedback.

I was married before and have been divorced over a year, and it was an abusive relationship in all ways. However, since childhood, I have had these beliefs about men and never trusted them. I have always been afraid of them, especially sexually. I also became compulsively sexual at about age 9, and I know that before that, something happened that I can't remember. I don't want to remember but I feel that something is being forced to the surface and I have to remember.

My current boyfriend is a really great man, although we have had our rough patches. I have had difficulty trusting him from the beginning and sometimes lump him in the "all men" category, so I am often hypervigilant and watching my back in case he does something to hurt me. However, he has never given me any indication that he would hurt me and we have had many long conversations about everything. He is so supportive and really wants to help me get through this and trust him. He is a little hurt that I have had so much trouble trusting and believing in him. He always wants to talk with me and work on things and has even suggested going to therapy with me so that he can better understand what I'm going through. I suppose, as someone said, I have been attracted to men who hurt me in the past (Sagittarius DC). My current boyfriend is in the unfortunate position of being someone I actually can trust, who has been my friend for many years, who has always helped me, but now he is not receiving the trust from me that he deserves. I want to trust him but I am so uneasy and there's so much anger and hatred from my past.

He is an odd match for me; a Virgo Sun, Pisces AC, Gemini Moon, Virgo Mercury, Cancer Venus, Scorpio Mars. Our ACs are exactly square , his Gemini Moon is exactly on my AC and completes a grand trine with my Venus and Mars. Also, his Scorpio Mars conjuncts my vertex, Moon, and Jupiter. His Mars is square my Venus in Aquarius, and I suppose despite it being a "bad" aspect it does provide some serious chemistry. My NN is conjunct his Venus. We have some difficult synastry; a lot of tricky Saturn aspects and some difficult Pluto contacts. Despite our Sun signs being square by sign, they are trine by aspect. In our composite, we have a grand kite (Venus on the AC opposite Sun in the 7th). Venus, Moon and Neptune form a grand trine. However, I am concerned about Uranus being in the 7th house (right on the cusp of the 8th in Placidus; in the 8th in equal house) and Venus being opposite Pluto; Mars conjunct Pluto (!). Also, we have a lot of planets in the 6th house. Anyway, I suppose I read too much into composite placements and synastry and I should probably just let my relationship be and see how it progresses. However, we are really serious about each other and want to be together forever, so I get concerned.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank everyone so far for your thoughtful posts.
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Unread 10-15-2009, 06:25 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Modcleopatra View Post
Hi All,

I found this post, and the subsequent responses very helpful. I too am a survivor of sexual abuse, specifically incest, having occurred (and later repeated) at a young age (I was three) at the hands of my maternal grandfather. If I remember correctly, this had to also do (also meaning that in addition to what others have mentioned), the venus-chiron square involving the sixth house which connects directly to the maternal grandfather.

I also was subjected to the abuse by my parents, of which is heavily evident when utilizing synastry between our respective charts.

I have provided my chart here and if anyone was/is curious about "signatures" of abuse, please feel free to view.

I've also included some asteroids because if I remember correctly, a few of them are also indicators.

If anyone has anything to add regarding my chart, that would much appreciated.

Thanks everyone!

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi...1L-u1108330500
Your image has expired...there is a sticky on how to post your chart. Try again?
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Unread 10-15-2009, 08:57 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

Hi took a look at your chart, firstly, you mentioned Mars or Venus Sq Pluto as classic signs of child sex abuse, I actually have both those aspects in my chart and if you use the placidus house system the sq is between my 4th and 7th houses. I also have lillith in scorpio in my 8th house opposite my sun. My chart probably looks like classic abuse victim but this is not the case oh and I'm not in denial and I have been through therapy for depression (Saturn opps Neptune+Moon).
My father left before i was born and wanted nothing to do with me when he found out I was only a girl and not an heir, I also had a real power struggle with my mother when I was younger she seemed jealous of the attention I got, she was a very young mother and was often let down in her relationships, her mantra was, men are no good they will always take advantage of you, they will always let you down, you can't trust men. She also gave out a loud message of sex is dangerous, it can land you in trouble you will get pregnant and it will ruin your life.
So in your case I was just wondering if this could perhaps be more an indoctrination also after all there is that sq from your node and Nessu to saturn and Pluto, I would read this as something that is communicated to you perhaps from you're peers or a sibling, that life is dangerous, the 5th house of all that is fun, enjoyable and creative of early relationships is never a light experience, it feels heavy and fearful. Can I ask have you ever been in relationship where you were forced to have an abortion, or emotionally pushed into taking on all the responsibility for contraception, did you feel that you have been in relationships with others who have a more lax attitude to family planning and to the whole relationship. ( perhaps this lead you to developing relationships with more mature older men)
You have a good natal trine between your Mars and Venus so overall I wouldn't have said there was tension until recently regarding your relationships with men in general. Looking at this I really strongly get the impression you are feeling more a power struggle with the imbalance you have perhaps experienced in relationships, and also in the work place. Mercury been in your 8th house, I would say is what pulls you to explore the darker side of your own and others nature, you may be drawn to older powerful men they equally to you and/or be involved relationship where there is an imbalance in intellectual and educational level.
Pluto is shaking you up, if you have been reluctant in the passed about taking control in your sexual encounters and relationships this is the time.
Pluto is not always about the physical harm that is done to us, it is I feel often that seed of doubt and evil that grows inside us that undermines our ability to have healthy relationships with others. Pluto is about power struggles and these transits often pushes one to take the power back.
If you have been giving too much of your personality your dreams your power to another, pluto whenever it makes a transit is gonna really make you address these issues. It sounds like your doing this so you hopefully will not encounter too much of the more sinister elements of pluto that may have made you encounter violence or abuse directly in your relationship.
I'm very cautious about planting memories in someones head at a time during such a transit, Pluto transit is happening to help you unravel your past. perhaps its the student psychotherapist in me that believes that if you were abused your mind and body must come to terms and unravel this in your own time, pushing things or going on the pure suggestions of ones chart will leave you in the dark and could send you down the wrong path.
I would say keep a dream journal and perhaps pay visits to places and people from your past, this will help you perhaps unravel all these things you feel are hidden in your past.
I highly recommend a really good book for anyone going through heavy Pluto transits or with heavy natal Pluto aspects called Healing Pluto Problems by Donna Cunningham I think it will certainly help you go on this journey of discover. Pluto can always uncover truth and while it's often a painful experience going through these transits I'm sure you come through this changed stronger and on the road to healing. Good Luck
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Unread 10-15-2009, 10:09 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

here is my chart again, sorry about that...http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?c...rbp=&rs=0&ast=
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Unread 10-15-2009, 10:13 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

Fascinating, the relationship between my chart and Normak's. Thanks EJ, for your succint reading regarding some basic patterns.

Beatnikgirl, thank-you for the reading reccommendation, I'll surely look into that.
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Unread 10-16-2009, 08:41 PM
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Re: Childhood Sexual Abuse?

Modcleopatra, You have a very strong Pluto in Scorpio conjunct your MC squaring your sun. This aspect often indicates difficulties with one's father, although not necessarily sexual abuse so specifically. Astrologers don't always agree on whether the MC or IC represents the mother, but I will go with the belief that the mother of someone born during the day is represented by the MC. Then if we do a derivative house method to find your mother's father, we go clockwise 10 houses from your MC, counting the 10th house as #1, and ending with the 10th house from #1 as your 7th house. This method incorporates both your Pluto/MC as well as your sun/Mercury.

You don't mention the extent to which your father was part of your life. In cases where the father was absent, then someone who served as a father figure, if any, would take that role in the person's chart.

I think one of the problems with childhood sexual abuse, which usually (though not always) involves an older male, is why the child's mother seemingly permits it to happen. Sometimes she doesn't, sometimes she accuses the child of lying, sometimes she doesn't want to see what is happening. If your maternal grandmother was in the picture, there is a kind of double problem for you here, of whether she knew what was going on. I think this gets us into your moon/Mars conjunction, with your moon opposing your sun.

Chiron in the 6th seems all about health and healing.

Best wishes for your recovery.
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