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  #1  
Unread 05-05-2009, 01:57 AM
piscesascendant piscesascendant is offline
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Another look at the 12th house

I was doing some research on google on astrology and stumbled upon an article about the 12th house which caught my attention. The information it had was very revealing and may have finally (or begun to finally) reveal the nature of the 12th house (to me at least). In a word: liquidation.

Thinking in terms of "liquidation", one might start to get a better handle on this true nature of this house. One phrase the article used to describe it--trust fund. Granted, the person must come of age before accessing the fund, but the wealth is always there. Sure, they may endure hardships, but eventually they will reap the rewards and the world will be their oyster.

Consider this as an example of the liquidation reference: using a business as an analogy to any aspect of a person's life, when the business starts to fail, sooner or later it will have a liuidation sale, or it's assets will be liquidated.

Now I realize this association of words may be considered shallow by some, but I find it quite revealing.

To further articulate the importance of the 12th house, I'll quote a portion of the article here:

"I’m not alone in thinking this way. Michel Gauquelin, a psychologist who used statistical models to investigate astrology’s accuracy, discovered that while many astrology factors have no relevance, planets in the 12th house did have a strong correlation with an individual’s career success. Mars in the 12th house was often found in the charts of sports figures. Actors, politicians, and journalists showed Jupiter in the 12th; scientists and doctors, Saturn or Mars; painters and musicians, Venus; and writers, the Moon. This finding surprised even astrologers, who typically locate career indicators in the 10th. Contemporary astrologer Maurice Fernandez makes even stronger claims for 12th house planets. According to Fernandez, people who have positions of influence or fame will more often have an emphasized 12th house than a strong 10th. .....................................
--by Dana Gerhardt


Last edited by flea; 01-10-2010 at 02:52 PM. Reason: only 100 words allowed for quotes
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Unread 05-05-2009, 02:39 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Hello piscesascendant, and thanks for the article! It was really interesting for me to read it, since I have some issues with my Sun which is situated in the 12th house. I'm new in astrology, but I made some attempts to give interpretation not only to my own chart, but also to the charts of my friends. I have three friends with this sun position and although their charts are quite different from one another, I can say that all of them, including me, are VERY private people. Still, I'm not sure whether the sun in 12th house is the only cause for it. In my case the sun is the ruler of both my sun sign and ascendant - I'm a "double" leo. Yet, I don't particualrly act as a leo. I tend to be rather secretive and I'm not constantly trying to be the centre of attention, but rather speculate, play different roles and constantly analyze situations and people (the last, I think, is due to my dominance of virgo - mars, mercury, moon and venus). But, let's hope this sun position might have some positive influence, and not only negative which seem to be abundant in most articles.
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Unread 05-06-2009, 12:38 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

This is another interesting part to the 12th house. Just read on another post something I'd forgotten--that houses 10 through 12 are in the quadrant of "Maturity" houses. This makes even more sense with the "trust fund" part the article I found mentioned about the 12t house. To reap the greatest benefit of some savings plans, an individual must wait until it "matures". Again, free association of words, but startlingly revealing.

This just keeps getting better and better. And everybody has a 12th house influence, not just those with planets in the 12th house.

Until I find out more, cheers!
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Unread 05-06-2009, 06:14 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Can you cite the source for the article, as per (ahem) Forum rules?

I like the "liquidation" concept because Neptune is the natural ruler of the 12th house, of whom it is said that this planet dissolves what it touches. Also, the traditional name for this house is the house of "self-undoing."

There is more to the 12th that these concepts don't touch, however. It is often associated with people who are shut-in in some way, as well as the places that house them. The self-sacrificing nature of this house can lead people to be very altruistic.
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Unread 05-06-2009, 06:16 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

I listed the author. I read on another thread from a moderator that listing the author was adequate.
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Unread 05-06-2009, 06:22 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

(ahem) http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_dgtwehouse_e.htm

I am aware of the traditional name. Tradition is due for an astrology makeover :P

What planets or influences are in your chart's 12th house?
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Unread 05-06-2009, 06:23 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Also, "liquidation" was my term. Thanks for liking it.
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Unread 05-06-2009, 12:16 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Thank you for this one. I have just chiron in the 12th but several transits there including the chiron, jupiter, Neptune stellium that has just entered my 12th house using Placidus. Uranus has been transiting there for some time. The 12th house seems to play a role this year in my solar return. I have been scratching my head over this one and now I might have a few answers. Thank you.
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Unread 05-06-2009, 12:23 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

I have noticed with these transits that a sacrifice has been called for in some way and that seems to fit. Sacrifice is part of neptune. In my solar return the neptune stellium is conjoined with the moon in the 10th and Maybe this implies a sacrifice in some way possibly my mother as she is ill.
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Unread 05-07-2009, 03:04 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by piscesascendant
I listed the author. I read on another thread from a moderator that listing the author was adequate.
Here is the excerpt from the Forum rules. These are not my personal rules. I am unaware of any citation system in which the name of the author alone is considered to be a "proper" attribution. If you give me the name of the moderator who considered the author's name alone to be sufficient, I will contact him/her to clear up any misunderstanding.

"In order to respect copyright laws, members are asked not to paste in their posts texts copied from other websites or other publications that are over 100 words long. In all cases of quoting, the source of the respective excerpts is to be properly mentioned. Also, if the text is publicly available online, a link to the source should be placed."

Thanks for posting the link. It is helpful to anyone who wishes to follow up on your point.

Cheers, W.
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Unread 05-07-2009, 11:55 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Hello piscesascendant and everyone. (I also have a Pisces ascendant). I started to create a new thread on the 12th house when I found this one. I have an Aquarian Mars in the 12th which is square the sun and opposes a Jup/Pluto conj. in the 6th. I am a very private person and need to be alone to recharge. People can have a real drain effect on me. I live in the Bible belt so I have to keep my 12th house interests a secret (astrology/tarot). I am also a singer/songwriter/guitar player which I think comes from my 12th and writing songs helps me deal with the pressures of life. I earn my living as a graphic artist though. It's crucial for me to always be doing something creative. I don't like television ....and don't even own a television which people think is strange. But I think more people would be artists if they didn't spend so much time in front of a TV. I would really like to hear how other people deal with their 12th house planets, esp. if they have Mars there.
All the best to everyone, cin
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Unread 05-08-2009, 12:09 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

I was doing some research on google on astrology and stumbled upon an article about the 12th house which caught my attention. The information it had was very revealing and may have finally (or begun to finally) reveal the nature of the 12th house (to me at least). In a word: liquidation.

Thinking in terms of "liquidation", one might start to get a better handle on this true nature of this house. One phrase the article used to describe it--trust fund. Granted, the person must come of age before accessing the fund, but the wealth is always there. Sure, they may endure hardships, but eventually they will reap the rewards and the world will be their oyster.
_______
Sorry but I meant to comment on the above comments from piscesascendent...all very much true. There is a lot of dissolving going on in the 12th. It's almost like a dream...you wake up and you think "I could never forget this" but if you don't write it down (capture it somehow), it will slip away. The 12th can be a really scary place for people who like solidarity...cause here there is none. You have to develop your faith...and believe in yourself. That's the only way. And there truly is a lot of wealth there. That's where all the great works of art emerged from...somebody's 12th....that's where your soul is and your life's purpose.
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Unread 05-08-2009, 03:46 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Too odd that you say these things. I have always wondered why I could never remember the issues of childhood that my sisters seem to have imprinted on their memories.I can not find those memories and I wonder if it is the 12th house Chiron, wounds that have dissolved...
I have pisces intercepted in the 12th and I wonder if the action of dissolving has followed the placement of neptune in the 7th. I, like you, find that
Quote:
It's almost like a dream...you wake up and you think "I could never forget this" but if you don't write it down (capture it somehow), it will slip away
.
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Unread 05-09-2009, 10:13 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

I like this thread
with my NN in 12th house I often had the feelings of my life purpose being so unclear, dilluted, un-firm, and I also found significance in the fact both of my parents had the 12th house Sun, and all my significant others had the same sun position.
I find that people who are low on personal development with this SUn position re often playing the role of victim in their lives, and have very unclear images of themselves
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Unread 05-09-2009, 11:13 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Key words I have picked up on here for the 12th
-Unclear images
-victim
-vague memories
-need to develop faith
-dream state
-need for privacy
-others drain
These are words that people have found for themselves describing their experience of the 12th house....
this helps me a great deal....since it is so 'vague'
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Unread 05-10-2009, 12:42 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by cassanra
Key words I have picked up on here for the 12th
-Unclear images
-victim
-vague memories
-need to develop faith
-dream state
-need for privacy
-others drain
These are words that people have found for themselves describing their experience of the 12th house....
this helps me a great deal....since it is so 'vague'

I have the Sun in the 6th, @ 0 Scorpio, conjunct Sat/Neptune in late Libra.
So looking at your 12th house list spurred me to look at the opposition to this list.

victim==with the Sun in the 6th, we often find ourselves looking for 'victims' who are in the need of our services.
unclear images===coming from the 5th, the 6th house is set up for creating clear cut images to represent the 5th house creations. The 6th is the house of branding and advertising and coming up with marketing strategies for the ideas of Leo.

vague memories== my memories often tend to be very sharp, and very exact, like little home movie snippets to be replayed over and over and reevaluated.

need to develop faith===in the 6th, we try and learn to rely upon MORE than faith, because in essence, we look at the worst case scenarios, just in case, and to be more prepared, we look at what we see as 'reality.'

dream state=== I think 6th housers are on the lookout for people in a dram state, just so we can snap them out of it.

need for privacy== our lives are often hopelessly intermingled with others,
and we often ask for all the dirty details, in hopes of 'saving' our victims.

others drain===I think we are often the 'drainees' of the 12 housers.
We pretty much live to 'help' wake them up, and I am sure that is pretty draining overall.

Last edited by katydid; 05-10-2009 at 12:47 AM.
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Unread 05-10-2009, 01:41 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Quote:
I have the Sun in the 6th, @ 0 Scorpio, conjunct Sat/Neptune in late Libra.
So looking at your 12th house list spurred me to look at the opposition to this list.

victim==with the Sun in the 6th, we often find ourselves looking for 'victims' who are in the need of our services.

vague memories== my memories often tend to be very sharp, and very exact, like little home movie snippets to be replayed over and over and reevaluated.

need to develop faith===in the 6th, we try and learn to rely upon MORE than faith, because in essence, we look at the worst case scenarios, just in case, and to be more prepared, we look at what we see as 'reality.'

dream state=== I think 6th housers are on the lookout for people in a dram state, just so we can snap them out of it.

need for privacy== our lives are often hopelessly intermingled with others,
and we often ask for all the dirty details, in hopes of 'saving' our victims.

others drain===I think we are often the 'drainees' of the 12 housers.
We pretty much live to 'help' wake them up, and I am sure that is pretty draining overall.
With regards to "the list", and speaking for myself (Aquarius Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus Pisces but closer to the 1st house), I don't find myself playing a "victim", but occasionally feeling victimized. The difference being, victim as a choice you make, victimized as an occasional state you're in by yours or another's action(s) but can certainly choose to come out of. Granted, the aloofness of an Aquarius may make him or her prone to other treating them like a victim, but the trick is, Aquarians (and I'm sure other signs) trust in the universe in such a way that rather always seeking revenge for feeling wronged, we more or less put it into the universe's "in box" and allow universal laws to faciliate "what goes around comes around."

In terms of privacy, from other 12th house poeple i know, we're really better off being allowed our privacy. Too much prying from others and both parties might be sorry--the 12th house person because now they need even more time to recuperate, and to the prying person because they'll end up facing "what goes around comes around" in a familair yet not too comfortable way. Everyone needs their privacy, though; not just 12th house people.
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Unread 05-10-2009, 03:07 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

I would say 'time to recuperate' does sound more like a 12th issue though and if the 12th house is the house of hidden enemies and our self undoing we could be both setting ourselves up and a victim of others.
I am trying to glean as much as I can due to all the activity going on the 12th house. It is not a normaly heaviely occupied house accept with chiron. With the chiron return...I want to be prepared
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Unread 05-10-2009, 05:46 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by piscesascendant
I was doing some research on google on astrology and stumbled upon an article about the 12th house which caught my attention. The information it had was very revealing and may have finally (or begun to finally) reveal the nature of the 12th house (to me at least). In a word: liquidation.
Thanks for posting this!

I've been a bit biased in my interest in the 12th since I have Saturn and Mars there in Cancer and Pluto in Leo...

I love that keyword, Liquidation !!

See any of that in the meanings I gave the 12th in my book?

12th House
Realize the Oneness of Life.
Utilize the Resources of My Unconscious Mind.
Explore the Value of Transcendence of Self.
Bring the Issue to Its Best Possible Conclusion.
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Unread 05-10-2009, 07:13 AM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermetic
I like this thread
with my NN in 12th house I often had the feelings of my life purpose being so unclear, dilluted, un-firm, and I also found significance in the fact both of my parents had the 12th house Sun, and all my significant others had the same sun position.
I find that people who are low on personal development with this SUn position re often playing the role of victim in their lives, and have very unclear images of themselves
Interesting comment, hermetic.

My son has NN in Scorpio in 12th and he's been wandering through his life like he has a bucket on his head. I get a sense that he feels that life is unsure and even uncertain, so much so that when he was younger - i.e. in his teens - I was sure I wouldn't have him for long. He has 5 other planets in the 12th, including the sun. He `collects' people who need him, and consider him to be wise and even `enlightened'. He's quite wise, but hardly enlightened. I truly don't understand him at all. I have a strong sense of him being a person with enormous potential, but who has not yet discovered the entry point to tapping this potential.

I have 2 brothers and one nephew with 12th house suns, and the three of them are very successful in the world, and very determined - but quiet about it!
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Unread 05-10-2009, 02:27 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by cassanra
Key words I have picked up on here for the 12th
-Unclear images
-victim
-vague memories
-need to develop faith
-dream state
-need for privacy
-others drain
These are words that people have found for themselves describing their experience of the 12th house....
this helps me a great deal....since it is so 'vague'
I don't know how it is for other 12th house people, but for me, a big thing is a great love for sleeping. I prefer nighttime over daytime, too, though, staying up late and sleeping long whenever possible and when life permits. Any other 12th house people who love sleeping, or need their sleep very much?
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Unread 05-10-2009, 05:35 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

gimzo23, I have sun in the 12th house and I totally understand you - I need at least 7-8 hours heavy sleep and I often go to sleep at 3-4am. The time I am most active is between 7pm and 3am. But I have to disagree on some things stated about people with planets in 12th house. In my case I don't feel victim and my images of past events are unusually clear. I tend to remember things said and done which my friends and family don't. Yes, I am a private person and I spend a lot of time reflecting on the things that have happened to me, constantly looking for answers. Still, it is really hard for me to understand the 12th house. Undoing oneself seems a bit troublesome for me. Being a leo with leo ascendant and with abundance of earth element, I have a very clear image of what I want, I'm self-assertive and goal-oriented and this 12th-house sun means exactly the opposite of what I really want. The only way I see it, is that maybe in the course of my life it will come gradually as a lesson to me.
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Unread 05-10-2009, 07:08 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

I have Saturn in the 12th, and have followed my young audlt daughter's life with interest: she has her sun and Mercury in the 12th.

I agree that 12th house people need their privacy. Traditionally the 12th rules shut-ins, notably people confined to hospitals, prisons, or monestaries. Well, obviously most of the millions of people with strong 12th houses are not sick,in jail, or under holy orders, but I think they need their solitude.

In terms of "self-undoing", one can trace the meaning of the sun through the 12 houses to get some comparison. In the 2nd house, one identifies with money, possessions, or values; in the 7th house, with one's marriage/partnership; in the 10th, with one's career/public image, and so on. But the 12th house ends this cycle, and was traditionally associated with the end of life (though the 8th plays a role in traditional astrology here, also.) It consequently was regarded as misfortunate, something that modern astrologers thankfully ignore. But the 12th is where the energies of whatever planets are there get "undone"--if the sun, in a Neptunian kind of way, it is one's ego that gets dissolved.

Now 12th house people are not necessarily shy loners: many famous political leaders have 12th house suns! But they do best by identifying with a cause greater than themselves, which might be their constituents, political principles, or their party.

Leo planets in the 12th at first glance would seem out of place here, but Leo as a leader does well by identifying with some greater cause that attracts other people to it. For example, Hilary Clinton has a strong 12th house. Love her or hate her, but her presidential campaign speeches indicate that she thought she was running in support of ordinary American citizens.

Of course some people struggle with the 12th house, in that they would prefer to identify with their career, friends, or hobbies. But life seems to go better for them when they identify with an altruistic purpose. Especially with any kind of 6th house emphasis, service to others will often bring the recognition denied by focussing on the affairs of other houses. This is why some of the great humanitarians like Mother Teresa have had strong 12th houses.

Dutch astrologer Karen Hamaker-Zondag wrote that 12th house planets indicate that one's mother had a difficult labour and post-partum experience. This was not true in my daughter's case, however.
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Unread 05-10-2009, 07:17 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

I believe that when you don't allow yourself to plumb the depths of your 12th, it becomes the "house of undoing"...because that's where your spiritual center is. I believe Jesus said it in one of the "lost books" of the Bible, something to the effect that if you express what is within you, it can save you but if you don't allow it expression, it can destroy you. Not in those exact words, but that's the gist. From the charts I've seen on Jesus, he would know about Pisces and the 12th...he had a big stellum there.
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Unread 05-10-2009, 11:02 PM
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Re: Another look at the 12th house

And now everything makes sense.
Quote:
But the 12th is where the energies of whatever planets are there get "undone"--if the sun, in a Neptunian kind of way, it is one's ego that gets dissolved.
As Uranus has been transiting my 12th I wonder if it implies that energy for me ....uranus energy connected so strongly with mars/venus in the 5th for me...has been undone?. I have always been prone to rash impulsive reactions and maybe this transit has affected that energy..?
Now with Neptune, chiron and jupiter transiting my 12th maybe I will see wounds dissolve?
Does that sound right?
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