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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 04-26-2006, 10:33 AM
Draco Draco is offline
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Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

Hi all,

Mav asked me if I had any ideas for putting our charts into various categories, and I had actually been thinking about organising our charts according to the 'Lord of the Geniture', that is to say, the planet which is given the greatest strength according to essential and accidental dignity by sign and house placement.

For anyone who does not know, the Lord of the Geniture was in tradition, considered to be the chart ruler, as we usually lead with our strengths, and the LoG being the strongest planet, it makes sense to see this as the planet with the greatest influence. These days, the ruler of the Ascendant is often considered to be the chart ruler, however, if this planet is detriment and in the 8th, it can hardly be considered to be the leading, most potent planet, even if it does rule the Ascendant.

I decided to go through each chart which has been submitted to the list, and determined the LoG in each of them. Some are extremely easy to spot, some are more challenging.

By the way, Pixy, remember when I said that I thought you were the only one with a Mars lord? I was dead wrong! There are more in the list with a Mars lord than any other! ops:

For anyone who might not be familiar with this, here's how to go about this.

Let's take Ace's chart as an example:

In Ace's chart there are no planets in the 1st but Mars is in Virgo in the 10th, Mars is peregrine here, but it get's 5 points for it's tenth house placement, but let's see if we can find anything stronger. The 4th is empty and so is the 7th and 11th, the 2nd and the 5th, the 9th contains the Sun in Leo, which gains 5 points for domicile and 2 points for being in the 9th, so with a score of 7 outweighs our Mars in Virgo in the 10th, which only got 5. The 3rd, 6th, 8th and 12th houses are so weak, that even if they contained a domicile planet, they could not now outweight the Sun's 7 points. So the Sun in Leo is the Lord of the Genture in Ace's chart.

Just an example for anyone who doesn't know.

By the way, the ordering of the houses by strength for the purposes of seeking the LoG, is thus:

1st, 7th = 5

4th, 10th, 11th = 4

2nd, 5th = 3

9th = 2

3rd = 1

6th, 8th, 12th = 0


Of course, the planets in signs are given 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 or 0 points according to domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term and face.

Here are the Lords of the geniture in our charts as far as I have gathered. If any of you feel that I have made a mistake in your chart, or if you require an explanation for my choice then let me know.

5th House Moon - Mercury / Capricorn / 7th.

Ace - Sun / Leo / 9th.

Amzolt - Venus / Taurus / 10th.

Arien Maverick - Saturn / Capricorn / 10th.

Astro88 - Mars / Aries / 11th.

Blumen - Mercury / Virgo / 8th.

C1 - Venus / Taurus / 5th.

CalicoDreams - Saturn / Capricorn / 1st.

C Jayne - Venus / Pisces / 4th.

Draco - Saturn / Libra / 7th.

Empath - Moon / Taurus / 3rd.

EvilPixyScorpio - Mars / Capricorn / 1st.

Fire Sign Logic - Mars / Scorpio / 9th.

Franklin Taytlor - Sun / Leo / 7th.

Gem-Sag - Mercury / Gemini / 7th.

Ihatelawschool - Mars / Scorpio / 4th.

Jag - Jupiter / Pisces / 4th.

Jenluvsblackcat - Mars / Scorpio / 4th.

Johan - Moon / Cancer / 10th.

Kite - Mars / Aries / 2nd.

Lapis - Sun / Sagittarius / 10th.

Laura Elizabeth - Venus / Pisces / 9th.

Lou 67 - Moon / Taurus / 11th.

Lunar Pisces - Mercury / Gemini / 10th.

Midnight Devil - Jupiter / Sagittarius / 8th.

Pixie 1982 - Mars / Scorpio / 10th.

Playingwithfire - Saturn / Aquarius / 1st.

Radu - Venus / Libra / 10th. (11th?)

Sam - Mars / Scorpio / 5th.

Shimmy 26 - Saturn / Capricorn / 11th.

Sweepstrings - Sun / Aries / 11th.

Threelegcat - Jupiter / Cancer / 4th.

Wilsontc - Mars / Cancer / 11th.

Phew! All done. If you feel that I have made a mistake, or you don't understand why I have chosen the planet I have then post to me.

There were some charts in which it was difficult to decide upon the Lord of the Geniture. Empath's, Threeleg's and Radu's for example.

In Empath's chart, Venus is in domicile in Libra, and the Moon exalted in Taurus, but they are in weak houses, in the 8th and the 3rd respectively. Venus gets 5 for domicile, but 0 for house. The Moon gets 4 for exaltation, but only 1 for house, so added together, both Venus and the Moon get 5 each, making them equal. So I consider the Moon to be the LoG, because it has potential and at least a little power to act upon it, Venus has great potential, but no power.

In Threeleg's chart, I found Jupiter in Cancer in the 4th, and Venus in Pisces in the 9th, so both get 9 points, but I gave the LoG to Jupiter, because it is conjunct the IC angle.

In Radu's, I found Venus in Libra, but I am not sure whether to consider it as the 11th or the 10th house, in any case, it would be the LoG. If you feel that a planet should be considered in the next house if it is within 5 degree of the cusp, it is in the 11th, if you use 3 degree's, it is still in the 10th.

Out of all the charts, nine people have Mars as their Lord.

Only one person has the Lord in Virgo, and that is Blumen, and only one has it in Aquarius, and that is PlayingWithFire.

So there you go Mav, you can compile them on the boards now if you want.

The thing I thought was, not only could you categorise these charts according to who has what planets as LoG, but also categorise according to who has it in what sign and in what house.

Draco

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  #2  
Unread 04-26-2006, 11:19 AM
Lela Lela is offline
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Hi Draco,

I am Sun/Asc. Sagittarius but my Jupiter is in 8th house! Could you please tell what my LoG is?


My Natal Chart:
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?r...3e-u1125393916

Thanks!
Lela
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  #3  
Unread 04-26-2006, 05:23 PM
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Awesome job, Draco! :mrgreen:

I believe that I have three planets in my natal chart that have essential as well as accidental dignity--my first house Sun in Aries, my eighth house Pluto in Scorpio, and my tenth house Saturn in Capricorn. Perhaps could you explain the process you used to determine Saturn as the best candidate for the Lord of the Geniture in my natal chart?

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Unread 04-26-2006, 06:34 PM
Draco Draco is offline
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Hi Lela,

In your chart the LoG is Mercury in Sagittarius in the 1st.

Mercury is in it's term, so it gets 2 points, and it's placement in the first gives it 5, so it has a strength of 7 in all.

House 4 and 7 are empty, and Venus is in the 11th, but it is in detriment. So it gets 4 points, but -5 for being in detriment.

The Moon and Saturn are in the 9th, giving them 2 points, but they get no more than this because they are peregrine.

The 3rd house is empty.

Jupiter gets no points for being in the 8th, and it is peregrine.

The Sun is in the 12th, which gets no score, but it is n it's triplicity, giving it 3.

So all in all, Mercury is the strongest planet in your chart according to essential and accidental dignity by sign and house, and as such is the Lord of the Geniture in your chart.

Mav,

You do have more than one planet in your chart with strong essential and accidental dignity. The Sun is in Aries, so gets 4 points for exaltation, and 5 for it's 1st house placement, giving it 9. However, Saturn pips it as LoG, because Saturn is in it's domicile, so it gets 5 points, and it's 10th house placement gives it 5, bringing it to 10 points, and as such it just beats the Sun as the LoG.

As for Pluto, Pluto isn't reckoned, because as a transpersonal it is concerned with collectives, and not with lordship over particular individuals.

If we did consider it as Scorpio's ruler, then it would get 5 points, but nothing for it's 8th house placement, so Saturn would still, by far, be the Lord of the Genture in your chart.

Hope this answers your questions.

Draco
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Unread 04-26-2006, 06:41 PM
Draco Draco is offline
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Hey Mav,

By the way, I've just noticed that you've compiled the charts according to the LoG by planets, sign and house, I didn't realsie you'd done it yet. Good work.

Draco

PS: I think in Radu's chart the LoG should be considered as in the 11th due to it's close proximity to the cusp. This loses it one point, but none the less, still makes it LoG all the same.
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Unread 04-26-2006, 06:58 PM
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Re: Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco
In Threeleg's chart, I found Jupiter in Cancer in the 4th, and Venus in Pisces in the 9th, so both get 9 points, but I gave the LoG to Jupiter, because it is conjunct the IC angle.
Dear Draco,
I appreciate so much for your great work done! However, it should be that my Venus is in Pisces in the 11th house, not the 9th. As I checked that the Lily's house ranking is ordered from: 1, 10, 7, 4, 11, 5, 9, 3, 2, 8, 6, 12, should the 11th house got the same points as the 4th?

three-leg-cat
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Unread 04-26-2006, 07:41 PM
Draco Draco is offline
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Hi Three-leg-cat,

Argh! ops:

Yes, you are right. I made a mistake, and you do have Venus in the 11th and not the 9th.

However, according to the attribution of points for houses, the 11th and the 4th are on a par with each other in that both get 4 points, so I would still give Jupiter as Lord of the Geniture, due to his conjunction with the angle, making him more potent in the chart.

Draco
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Unread 04-26-2006, 07:56 PM
Three-leg-cat Three-leg-cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco
Hi Three-leg-cat,

Argh! ops:

Yes, you are right. I made a mistake, and you do have Venus in the 11th and not the 9th.

However, according to the attribution of points for houses, the 11th and the 4th are on a par with each other in that both get 4 points, so I would still give Jupiter as Lord of the Geniture, due to his conjunction with the angle, making him more potent in the chart.

Draco
Draco,

Another thing is that I have Jupiter in 29Can13'58". Should it be rounded-off to 0 deg. from Leo, because there's just less than 1 deg. apart?

Thanks again,

three-leg-cat
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Unread 04-26-2006, 08:30 PM
Ihatelawschool Ihatelawschool is offline
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Hey Draco, thats pretty awesome. Its nice of you to go through all that work for us! I was just wondering why Mars was my LoG instead of my sun, since my Sun is in Leo and its in my first house (touching the second house cusp, however).
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Unread 04-27-2006, 12:58 AM
Draco Draco is offline
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Hi Three-leg,

Quote:
Another thing is that I have Jupiter in 29Can13'58". Should it be rounded-off to 0 deg. from Leo, because there's just less than 1 deg. apart?
No, not at all. Many people like to round up degrees for the Sabian symbols, but a planet at 29 degrees is at 29 degrees, it isn't in the next sign.

My Moon is at 29.29 Leo, but even though it is in Leo's last gasp, it is none the less still in Leo, and shouldn't be considered to be in Virgo, unless it is physically at 0 degree's of that sign.

I think the rounding up of Sabian symbols causes confusion here. Personally I do not like to round them up, but having said that, I don't use them in application to charts, but just as an oracle.

Your Jupiter at the critical degree of 29 Cancer, is in Cancer as it hasn't yet crossed the boundary into Leo. You can assure that your Jupiter is exalted, and all the more interesting in that it is at a critical degree.

Lawschool,

Quote:
Hey Draco, thats pretty awesome. Its nice of you to go through all that work for us!
Thanks, it's a pleasure.

Quote:
I was just wondering why Mars was my LoG instead of my sun, since my Sun is in Leo and its in my first house (touching the second house cusp, however).
It is because the Sun is touching upon your 2nd cusp, that it is considered to actually be in the second, especially where the Sun is concerned in that it has such a wide moiety. Usually a planet within 5 degrees of a cusp (or some would say 3) is considered to be upon that cusp, and therefore dominating that house.

So rather than having your Sun in the 1st, it is rather, right upon your 2nd cusp, and so for you, it is the second house that is ushering in your solar energies, not the 1st which it is leaving behind.

So Mars in Scorpio in the 4th is the Lord of the Geniture in your chart. I envy you, because I am very fond of my Scorpionic Mars. You were born almost exactly a month before me, and beneath the same transit of Mars through Scorpio as I was, but my Mars is in the 8th, so does not qualify as the LoG.

Draco
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Unread 04-27-2006, 06:26 AM
Ihatelawschool Ihatelawschool is offline
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that makes sense. I think the LoG is more accurate indicator of what sign/planet rules your chart, especially for me because I definitely don't think I come off as a Leo rising/Leo sun. I actually saw mention of this before when you were addressing someone elses astrological issue and I was tempted to ask you to calculate my LoG but I stopped myself because you were addressing someone elses concern, I did not want to make that post about me...us Leo sun/leo rising/leo venus people have a penchant for doing that!

I have a question to ask about the cusp. If a planet is in house 4 and it is on the house 3/house 4 cusp, can that planet be deemed to be in house 3? In my chart, my sun is at the end of my house 1 and is interpreted in being in house 2. Lets say for example, its at the beginning of house 2 and is touching the 1st house cusp? Does the cusp priniple also apply in a clockwise direction?
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Unread 04-28-2006, 04:45 AM
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Hmm, well, I'm not in a position to form much of an opinion on this from my own chart alone. Which ever way uou choice to determine chart ruler - by ASC, by Sun sign, by prime dispositor, by most dignified, and appenrtly by this method - it ends up always Mercury with me. LOL. I think the exception this method makes is intriguing; yet, I don't think that what rules the chart must be a strong planet per se - certainly a ruler can be weak or afflicted, and have a negative or contrary influence of its domain. There are significant reasons for using the ASC to determine chart ruler, since a horoscope has to do with a specific point in space and time, and our understanding of any horoscope begins from the perspective of the ASC. Thus we always see the horoscope through the filter of the ASC. Change the ASC, and you've changed the horoscope. This is why, I think, if one wishes to use this or other methods, that it should be used in conjunction with an understanding that, regardless of how the chart plays out, the ASC is still essential and preceeds any other analysis or interpretation.
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Unread 04-28-2006, 07:21 AM
Jrsaman Jrsaman is offline
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What would be the LOG in my chart?
A little help please.
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Unread 04-28-2006, 09:57 AM
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Terrific job Draco... I never considered LoG before. It's a very interesting concept. I feel this is right with my Sun being the ruler, but that Saturn conjunct my Sun with a close orb (and the planet closest to my sun) puts a damper on things at times. Thanks for clarifying how you came across your analysis. I'm sure everyone appreciates and is pleased with this new information.
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Unread 04-28-2006, 03:03 PM
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Hi Draco

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but in your LOG determination for Lela, didn't you forget that Mercury is in detriment in Sag?

I must say though, I can't quite fathom what the true LOG could be.

Regards
Susie
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Unread 04-28-2006, 03:07 PM
Susie Susie is offline
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Just had a look at Lela's chart - my vote goes to Mars in the 1st!

Regards
Susie
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Unread 04-28-2006, 03:33 PM
pixie1982 pixie1982 is offline
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a little confused

Wow Draco,

Thanks for doing all of that work! My only problem is that I do not understand what this information means!!
I have Scorpio, Mars and the 10th house but what does that mean?!!! I do feel quite in tune with the scorpio side of me though and and often drawn to scorpio people, is this why?

pixie1982 xx
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Unread 04-28-2006, 04:57 PM
Draco Draco is offline
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Susie and Lela,

Quote:
Just had a look at Lela's chart - my vote goes to Mars in the 1st!
Susie, well done you!

You are absolutely right, Mercury is not the Lord of the Geniture in Susie's chart, I was too hasty, and failed to heed that Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius, stripping it of it's 5 points for being in the first, leving with only 2 points for term.

Mars is peregrine, but gets a 5 for first house placement, and being the only planet with 5 points, is LoG.

So Lela, it's Mars not Mercury.

I stand corrected. ops:

Cheers Susie.

Jrsman,

In your chart, everything is peregrine apart from Jupiter in it's face and Saturn in it's fall. The Moon and Mars are comparatively strong as although peregrine, they are in the 1st and 10th respectively, giving them 5 points each, also Jupiter obtains 5 points by being in the 7th (4), as well as being in it's face (1).

So in having to make a choice out of the three, I would go for Mars as Lord of the Geniture, due to it's close conjunction with the MC.

So Mars in Sagittarius conjunct the 10th cusp is the LoG in your chart.

Pixie '82,

Quote:
Thanks for doing all of that work! My only problem is that I do not understand what this information means!!
As the Lord of the Geniture is determined according to which planet is given to most accidental and essential dignity in the nativity, it is the planet which exemplifies the native's incarnation, the planet whose energies and influence we can draw upon most readily.

The Lord of the Geniture shows us the most important planet in our chart, and it's placement, the most important sign and house, because these are the channels through which we can make our energies felt most potently.

It would seem that the majority of people on the forum (who have posted their charts) have Mars as the Lord of the Geniture, which is interesting.

Draco
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Unread 04-16-2015, 09:58 AM
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Question Re: Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

Hello, a newbie here,

Would love to know how to tabulate or calculate the Lord of Geniture in our charts, and also would love to know how this affects the chart and the person.
Below is my chart, could you hep me calculate it? and explain how the ruler is obtained. Tq.

[IMG][/IMG]


Regarding the Mars as the LoG, are the people warrior like? Go-getters, and those who are action orientated? Curious...

Last edited by happywhovian; 04-16-2015 at 10:11 AM. Reason: the image posted could not be viewed, so I tried correcting.
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Unread 04-16-2015, 10:28 AM
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Re: Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

Ok. Your LoG is probably Venus, even though it's cadent. It's in rulership and not afflicted.

Your almuten, however, is Jupiter.

Which one suits? Or do both?

The calculations are slightly different for them. For both, you look for the planets with the most accidental and essential dignity, for the almuten you include the planetary hour and day in the calculations, for the LoG, you don't.

As for Mars as almuten or LoG, it would depend on Mars' dignity. Assuming it was in decent dignity, it probably would indicate a go-getter type, or a courageous person more than someone who was out-of-control aggressive. I've known a few people who do professional sport who have Mars as almuten/LoG, and it's not unheard of for soldiers, either.

Why did you resurrect a 10-year-old thread??

Last edited by Oddity; 04-16-2015 at 10:31 AM.
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Unread 04-16-2015, 07:01 PM
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Re: Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happywhovian View Post

Hello, a newbie here,

Would love to know how to tabulate or calculate the Lord of Geniture in our charts,
and also would love to know how this affects the chart and the person.

Below is my chart, could you hep me calculate it?
and explain how the ruler is obtained. Tq.


[IMG][/IMG]


Regarding the Mars as the LoG, are the people warrior like?

Go-getters, and those who are action orientated? Curious...
ALMUTEM FIGURIS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...440#post442440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post

....The Almuten Figuris is the planet that has the most dignity in the five places and other accidental considerations.

The Lord of Geniture is the planet that has the most essential and accidental dignity.

The sheer amount of work that goes into calculating the Almuten Figuris makes it difficult to mix up with simpler calculations.



It's easier to just do it by hand if a program is giving you problems.....

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Unread 04-16-2015, 07:13 PM
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Re: Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

For the Almuten:

Most dignity in places of:

Sun
Moon
Ascendant
Fortuna
Pre-natal syzygy
Planetary day and hour also count towards a planet's dignity

For Lord of the Geniture:

Most essential dignity and accidental dignity, plus least afflicted of these in the chart. LoG sometimes requires a judgement call.

The two can often be the same, but not always.
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  #23  
Unread 04-17-2015, 09:31 PM
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Re: Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

Thank you Oddity and Jupiter.

Oddity: I just registered, and came across this thread. It sounds new to me because I'm still in my learning process. So that's what got me here.
For all I came to know is that the ruler of the chart is the ruler of the Ascendant. Which I found out from here that its not necessarily be that.

Just another question, how Pluto in my chart is not considered? Given that it is in Scorpio and in the tenth house, conjunct MC.

If Venus, does taking the easy route and escaping conflicts be part of the characteristics?

Jupiter, excessive generosity and a need for knowing maybe.
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Unread 04-17-2015, 10:23 PM
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Re: Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

Your chart seems to have disappeared out of photobucket.

You seem to have a really negative view of the benefics. Why?

Venus generally signifies women, love, art, pleasure, and beauty. Jupiter is somewhat philosophical, it rules wealth, religion, and tends to fairness and fortune. Jupiter is generous, but doesn't tend to excess unless afflicted.

Unless otherwise afflicted, they both bring good. Jupiter possibly moreso for you, because you were born in the daytime, so it's your in-sect benefic. Yet Venus is her rulership so...you tell me.

The concepts of almuten and lord of the geniture belong to traditional astrology. In modern astrology, or at least most kinds of it, your ascendant ruler is your chart ruler. A few traditional astrologers use the outer planets (most of us don't), and since the outers have no rulerships or other essential dignities, they aren't used in calculating the almuten or LoG.
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Unread 04-18-2015, 09:52 AM
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Smile Re: Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

Sorry Oddity,

Quote:
Originally Posted by happywhovian View Post



[IMG][/IMG]
Can you see it now?
Haven't altered anything in Photobucket.

I have no bad perceptions on both the planets, in-fact while I was having my Saturn Transit according to an astrologer whom my mother consulted sometime back, the Venus in my chart is saving me throughout that time period.

Its just that when I look up for the aspects that these two planets make in my chart I came across such answers.

Another thing is that I was a bit shocked that Venus or Jupiter be my LoG, because mostly from what I have experienced in life is that I'm clumsy, and accident prone mainly due to the Mars square Uranus aspect in my chart where Mars is in my 8th house, conjuncts my Sun. Also Mars being my Oriental planet.

On another take, I am drawn to arts and music, but produce not much of works because of over self-criticizing and analyzing.

The planet Jupiter, have a huge thirst for knowledge and spirituality.

Thank you again Oddity.
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