Should I date a criminal?

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
Hello everyone,

I hope you can give me some insights on who would be a good partner for me.
What to look out for/avoid...
I really want a strong loving relationship (don't we all?) so much it hurts.

In the past It seems for some reason my conflict was between TWO main types:

The first I am very compatible with on a mental level- lots of conversations, friendship, spirituality but I can't find any passion or attraction.

The second type is usually very attractive to me and seems great until I end up finding out he is abusive/addicted/usually mentally unstable/into crime.

Now I only date stable people with similar values who are good "husband material" but it somehow is not enough on an emotional level.

What is going on? are there any indicators to where I can meet a partner that is right for me?

Who would be a good partner?

Thank you :love:

Chart below.
 

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AppLeo

Well-known member
Is this a joke?

You should NOT date a criminal.

You don't need astrology to figure that out. And that question is ridiculous online. I can kind of see that question being asked to a family member or friend who knows the context of the situation, but asking this online is just... :unsure:

If you feel like you need to date a criminal (someone who is abusive, addicted, messed up), you either suffer from masochism or haven't found the right healthy relationship. I suggest you seek a therapist or meditation to help you out with that.

I can kind of see why you would be attracted to the abusive types. Your Venus is opposite Pluto and is trine to Neptune. Venus-Pluto attracts you to people that are chaotic or super life-changing and Venus-Neptune makes you want to take people under your wing. You love unconditionally.

But you do NOT want to date a criminal. They will pull you down to their level. In my opinion, people who are in relationships with evil people are just as evil.
 

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
Is this a joke?

You should NOT date a criminal.

You don't need astrology to figure that out. And that question is ridiculous online. I can kind of see that question being asked to a family member or friend who knows the context of the situation, but asking this online is just... :unsure:

If you feel like you need to date a criminal (someone who is abusive, addicted, messed up), you either suffer from masochism or haven't found the right healthy relationship. I suggest you seek a therapist or meditation to help you out with that.

I can kind of see why you would be attracted to the abusive types. Your Venus is opposite Pluto and is trine to Neptune. Venus-Pluto attracts you to people that are chaotic or super life-changing and Venus-Neptune makes you want to take people under your wing. You love unconditionally.

But you do NOT want to date a criminal. They will pull you down to their level. In my opinion, people who are in relationships with evil people are just as evil.

No no- of course no one should date a criminal. So yes this is a joke title.
I specifically say something else in my question about seeking a healthy relationship but wondering why its still not right on an emotional level. Perhaps humor doesn't come across here...:sad:
I ask what all people ask- who would be compatible?
 

Osamenor

Staff member
The first I am very compatible with on a mental level- lots of conversations, friendship....
Now I only date stable people with similar values who are good "husband material"
That sounds like Virgo....
The second type is usually very attractive to me and seems great until I end up finding out he is abusive/addicted/usually mentally unstable/into crime.
And that sounds like Scorpio....
Who would be a good partner?
Mars in Aries in a Pisces house, or rather, someone with characteristics that fit that planet and those signs. Signs and planets in your seventh house indicate the kind of partner you need. To a somewhat lesser extent, so do your seventh house rulers, Jupiter and Neptune. If your seventh house were empty, its rulers would be more important as indicators of the right kind of partner for you, but since you have a planet there, that's where we look first.

Your Mars is in an unique situation regarding aspects. Unaspected if we only consider the Ptolemaic aspects, but it's the apex of a yod. I think it's the yod and the planets forming quincunxes to your Mars that's at play here.

Any good romantic relationship includes both friendship and sexual attraction. You perceive a disconnect between men you are attracted to and men you can be friends with: you can't be both attracted to and friends with the same guy, because to your mind, Mr. Attraction and Mr. Friend have very different personalities. That reflects the nature of an inconjunct: disconnect between things that don't really have to be disconnected, but for you, the person with the inconjunct, that they are disconnected is just how things are.

The men you form friendships with reflect your Jupiter placement: the stability of an earth sign, the stimulating conversation of Mercury-ruled Virgo, the spirituality of Jupiter. The men you're attracted to reflect your moon placement: the edginess and darkness of Scorpio, the mental instability and/or addiction that can be the moon's shadow side (could also reflect the shadow side of Neptune, your seventh house's modern ruler). Because of that inconjunct, and how it's playing out for you, they're not the same men.

But you can't have just one or the other and have it be a good relationship. If you choose friendship without attraction or emotional connection, a crucial piece of the relationship is missing. If you choose attraction without friendship, the other crucial piece is missing, and because of the kind of people you're attracted to, it's putting you in danger.

Planets in a yod can function well, and the yod itself can function well, if the planets and their sign placements are all being expressed in their better way. That the Scorpio leg of your yod is being expressed in such a malfunctioning way, when it comes to relationships, indicates that the Aries leg probably isn't working very well either, and probably not the Virgo leg, either.

I think it's noteworthy that while Scorpio and Aries are inconjunct, both signs traditionally have the same ruler. In this case, that mutual ruler is involved in a quincunx between them. That your experience is playing out this way suggests to me that Aries Mars isn't functioning well for you... have you perhaps disowned that very strong Mars that's a part of you?... and, consequently, you've drawn people into your life who reflect that disowned shadow back at you, through a violent showing of a very Scorpio Mars.
 
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PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
]=Mars in Aries in a Pisces house, or rather, someone with characteristics that fit that planet and those signs. Signs and planets in your seventh house indicate the kind of partner you need. To a somewhat lesser extent, so do your seventh house rulers, Jupiter and Neptune. If your seventh house were empty, its rulers would be more important as indicators of the right kind of partner for you, but since you have a planet there, that's where we look first.

Your Mars is in an unique situation regarding aspects. Unaspected if we only consider the Ptolemaic aspects, but it's the apex of a yod. I think it's the yod and the planets forming quincunxes to your Mars that's at play here.

Any good romantic relationship includes both friendship and sexual attraction. You perceive a disconnect between men you are attracted to and men you can be friends with: you can't be both attracted to and friends with the same guy, because to your mind, Mr. Attraction and Mr. Friend have very different personalities. That reflects the nature of an inconjunct: disconnect between things that don't really have to be disconnected, but for you, the person with the inconjunct, that they are disconnected is just how things are.

The men you form friendships with reflect your Jupiter placement: the stability of an earth sign, the stimulating conversation of Mercury-ruled Virgo, the spirituality of Jupiter. The men you're attracted to reflect your moon placement: the edginess and darkness of Scorpio, the mental instability and/or addiction that can be the moon's shadow side (could also reflect the shadow side of Neptune, your seventh house's modern ruler). Because of that inconjunct, and how it's playing out for you, they're not the same men.

But you can't have just one or the other and have it be a good relationship. If you choose friendship without attraction or emotional connection, a crucial piece of the relationship is missing. If you choose attraction without friendship, the other crucial piece is missing, and because of the kind of people you're attracted to, it's putting you in danger.

Planets in a yod can function well, and the yod itself can function well, if the planets and their sign placements are all being expressed in their better way. That the Scorpio leg of your yod is being expressed in such a malfunctioning way, when it comes to relationships, indicates that the Aries leg probably isn't working very well either, and probably not the Virgo leg, either.

I think it's noteworthy that while Scorpio and Aries are inconjunct, both signs traditionally have the same ruler. In this case, that mutual ruler is involved in a quincunx between them. That your experience is playing out this way suggests to me that Aries Mars isn't functioning well for you... have you perhaps disowned that very strong Mars that's a part of you?... and, consequently, you've drawn people into your life who reflect that disowned shadow back at you, through a violent showing of a very Scorpio Mars.


Thank you so much for your reply.

I absloutly see this pattern and this does explain it really well. I wonder how would I be able to "use" Mars or strengthen it to help me with relationships? Does this mean acting it out in sports or some type of action (Aries). I guess I might simply find a person who is both Scorpio and Pisces but know that the relationship will go through parts where i feel more platonic and other not- but with the same person/

Could you maybe explain the role of the YOD here? I'm new to this aspect.
:lol:
 

Abby83

Well-known member
Wow I can so see your dilemma!! Like, u r mercury in 8th house which explains your emotional intense persona. Your partners are Jupiter in detriment in 12th. Jupiter is normally great to have in the 12th but it means your partner is a hidden enemy, and, in detriment it doesn't get to fully express it' jovial abundant abilities. Instead, it is restricted in some way. The Jupiter sextiles 11th ruler, the moon, also in fall. So your hopes and wishes or your friends are not in good condition either. Then we look at mars which is in the 7th. Mars in this house can bring aggression and abuse in relationships as well as divorce. I'm not sure what advice I can give.
 

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
Wow I can so see your dilemma!! Like, u r mercury in 8th house which explains your emotional intense persona. Your partners are Jupiter in detriment in 12th. Jupiter is normally great to have in the 12th but it means your partner is a hidden enemy, and, in detriment it doesn't get to fully express it' jovial abundant abilities. Instead, it is restricted in some way. The Jupiter sextiles 11th ruler, the moon, also in fall. So your hopes and wishes or your friends are not in good condition either. Then we look at mars which is in the 7th. Mars in this house can bring aggression and abuse in relationships as well as divorce. I'm not sure what advice I can give.

Doomed you say? :sad: but really isnt Jupiter i the 12th about overcoming enemies. Although it is true what you said- turns out like that sadly, people I love end up stabbing me in the heart. So now I avoid these relationships and i'm safe- but unfulfilled.

is Neptune to Venus of any help?
 

Abby83

Well-known member
I'm wondering if your sun could be the key to your relationships. Its in Taurus which is stable and secure and sensual. Its in the 9th house of religion, higher education, lawyers, foreigners. It trines Neptune and Uranus in cap which adds a bit of unpredictability and dreamy fantasies. So perhaps your sun is the key?

Also, look at where your Juno sign is. That can tell u a lot about the type of partner u need.
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
Thank you so much for your reply.

I absloutly see this pattern and this does explain it really well. I wonder how would I be able to "use" Mars or strengthen it to help me with relationships? Does this mean acting it out in sports or some type of action (Aries).
Probably. Mars is one of your strongest planets: domiciled, in an angular house, and unaspected except for being the apex of a yod. That means you yourself have very strong Mars energy. You can do one of two things with that energy: own it or disown it. If you own it, it comes back to you in a healthy way. If you disown it, it comes back to you in an unhealthy way, and that is apparently what's been happening.

In traditional astrology, a strong Mars would indicate that Mars things are likely to go well for you. I'm modern, not trad, but I do see that, and from a modern perspective, I would say that a strong Mars drive means you're driven to do Mars things, and yes, they probably will go well for you most of the time. The combination of Aries and the seventh house suggests competition of some kind.

The seventh house isn't just about partners, it's also about open enemies. That doesn't have to be as ominous as it sounds. Open enemies can simply mean competitors. If you're on a sports team, the people on the team you're competing against are your open enemies, while you're on the field. They might be your friends off the field, but in the context of the game, they're your rivals, your open enemies. They're also your partners, in the sense that playing off of them sharpens your skill and develops your strength, and that they get the same benefits from playing off you.

What competitive things are you interested in? Sports? Debate? Something else? Is there something competitive that you've wanted to do but not done? Or that you used to do, and liked, but gave up?

If you're female, you'll have come under plenty of pressure to disown your Mars. Being "too" aggressive or competitive is considered unfeminine in our society.

When we disown parts of ourselves, we tend to draw people in who reflect that disowned part, and usually not in a healthy way, because the people we draw into our lives, particularly in a romantic situation, are only as emotionally healthy as we are. When the disowned part of you is represented by a placement in your seventh house, that's all the more likely, because what's in your seventh house indicates what kind of people you draw into your life, both romantically and otherwise.

You also have other placements that suggest you're especially prone to drawing in people who reflect your shadow side: Pluto in opposition with your Venus, both domiciled, and Pluto in opposition with your sun; and the legs of your yod with its apex in the seventh house being your Scorpio moon and your seventh house's traditional ruler.

You can't get rid of any placement in your chart, but you can work with it consciously, and you need to, in order to have a healthy relationship, and that doesn't just mean a healthy romantic relationship, but also a healthy relationship with yourself. If you are consciously doing your own shadow work--and it seems that the most crucial step is owning your Mars--you'll draw in people who can help you do that work consciously. Right now, you're drawing in people who either are reflecting that unconscious shadow and out of control, or enable you to avoid it altogether. Neither is a healthy relationship, and neither is the right kind of partner for you.

I guess I might simply find a person who is both Scorpio and Pisces but know that the relationship will go through parts where i feel more platonic and other not- but with the same person/
Before you can have a good relationship, you need to do your own self work, reclaim your Mars. To paraphrase a quote from Gloria Steinem (who has a very strong Mars herself), it's not about finding the right person, but being the right person, and to find the right person, you have to be the right person.

The kind of person you'll find when you are the right person--an empowered, mature Mars person--will also be an empowered, mature Mars person, unlike the abusive immature Mars guys you've dated. Probably with some Pisces-like and Scorpio-like traits, too, and probably with some earth sign-like stability, since your Venus and both of your seventh house rulers are in earth signs, but right now is not the time to be looking for that person. It's more important to build up yourself in relation to the Mars part of you.

Could you maybe explain the role of the YOD here? I'm new to this aspect.
:lol:
What I know about yods is already in the last two posts. I'm also new to this aspect. I heard a lecture on them a couple of months ago, but I haven't done any study of them before or since. This thread is the very first time I've seen a yod problem clearly indicated. I'm learning by interpreting your chart!

If you want to learn more about yods, join a discussion on them, or start one. I think there's a yod thread or two somewhere in Natal Astrology, maybe the Modern Astrology board, or maybe the Aspects board.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Having an unaspected planet makes it difficult to access and utilise that planet...

Some astrologers say that. Others say unaspected planets are especially strong, because they don't have any other planet's energy to curb them or modify them. Possibly, both are true: strong but difficult to access.

However, the OP's Mars is aspected. It's part of a yod. The apex, the focal point. Having no other aspects, it's possible that it's not noticeable at times, but I can't imagine it's not accessible. More likely, this strong Mars will assert itself if not deliberately worked with.

Perhaps a traditional astrologer would look at it differently, because in traditional astrology, the only aspects are the sextile, trine, square, and opposition. Quincunxes and yods are a modern aspect. I do see the effects of this yod very clearly, and it sounds like she does, too, so it must be a real thing.
 

PlutorisingLee

Well-known member
Thank you so much for all your posts- They mean a lot to me even if I can;t respond to all of it that well.

Probably. Mars is one of your strongest planets: domiciled, in an angular house, and unaspected except for being the apex of a yod. That means you yourself have very strong Mars energy. You can do one of two things with that energy: own it or disown it. If you own it, it comes back to you in a healthy way. If you disown it, it comes back to you in an unhealthy way, and that is apparently what's been happening.

This is interesting- usually I read it makes the planet weak to be on its own and in the 7th house. Isn't the 7th house about projecting into others? To me it feels I am dependent on other people to have energy or not to have it. I am very aware of how it plays out and now own my own aggression and anger instead of projecting it onto other people.
You speak of its strength and importance and your right being female it is hard for me to imagine anywhere but in a competitive career that this Mars might come out. I also love to argue about intellectual stuff.
Now..for the YOD. I'm new to this but shouldnt Jupiter and Moon be the legs of the Mars? In this case both are about Scorpio/Virgo/..I wonder about that.



In traditional astrology, a strong Mars would indicate that Mars things are likely to go well for you. I'm modern, not trad, but I do see that, and from a modern perspective, I would say that a strong Mars drive means you're driven to do Mars things, and yes, they probably will go well for you most of the time. The combination of Aries and the seventh house suggests competition of some kind.

Aha! competition in Libra things? like maybe arts. advertising or politics? Or in Aries things like some kind of fight for a cause? The Jupiter makes me think- fight for a 12th house cause with empathy.


The seventh house isn't just about partners, it's also about open enemies. That doesn't have to be as ominous as it sounds. Open enemies can simply mean competitors. If you're on a sports team, the people on the team you're competing against are your open enemies, while you're on the field. They might be your friends off the field, but in the context of the game, they're your rivals, your open enemies. They're also your partners, in the sense that playing off of them sharpens your skill and develops your strength, and that they get the same benefits from playing off you.

I see what you mean. Although to be honest my former partners did end up being enemies of mine- surprising and shocking me.

What competitive things are you interested in? Sports? Debate? Something else? Is there something competitive that you've wanted to do but not done? Or that you used to do, and liked, but gave up?

Good question. I guess the only thing I can think of is art and filmmaking- I gave up that dream. Do you see any indicators for that as a career? guess I can say i gave up my power of ambition and desire in life.

If you're female, you'll have come under plenty of pressure to disown your Mars. Being "too" aggressive or competitive is considered unfeminine in our society.

When we disown parts of ourselves, we tend to draw people in who reflect that disowned part, and usually not in a healthy way, because the people we draw into our lives, particularly in a romantic situation, are only as emotionally healthy as we are. When the disowned part of you is represented by a placement in your seventh house, that's all the more likely, because what's in your seventh house indicates what kind of people you draw into your life, both romantically and otherwise.

I agree with you. This was the past dynamic for sure and something I always try and be careful about...But now I am bored by my non-Mars types of dating prospects. Where is the fire? The sparkling passion?
I like what you wrote about a mature Mars person- but how would one recognize a person like that? [a


You also have other placements that suggest you're especially prone to drawing in people who reflect your shadow side: Pluto in opposition with your Venus, both domiciled, and Pluto in opposition with your sun; and the legs of your yod with its apex in the seventh house being your Scorpio moon and your seventh house's traditional ruler.

Thta is very true. I am very concerned with the whole Jungian idea of the Shadow and a bit fearful of people as a result.

You can't get rid of any placement in your chart, but you can work with it consciously, and you need to, in order to have a healthy relationship, and that doesn't just mean a healthy romantic relationship, but also a healthy relationship with yourself. If you are consciously doing your own shadow work--and it seems that the most crucial step is owning your Mars--you'll draw in people who can help you do that work consciously. Right now, you're drawing in people who either are reflecting that unconscious shadow and out of control, or enable you to avoid it altogether. Neither is a healthy relationship, and neither is the right kind of partner for you.

I see it really well...I'm just not very sure what this Mars energy is for me. I know Pluto, intense emotion, pain, dark shadow aspects of myself...But my Mars that vital power? I need other people to own it and meet it and so far people and friends keep stabbing me in the back and taking my strength. I don't mean it in that I blame others- but probably something about me calls fro them to know I have no boundaries and they can go deep into my heart and hurt me. So i'm working on having armor.

Before you can have a good relationship, you need to do your own self work, reclaim your Mars. To paraphrase a quote from Gloria Steinem (who has a very strong Mars herself), it's not about finding the right person, but being the right person, and to find the right person, you have to be the right person.

The kind of person you'll find when you are the right person--an empowered, mature Mars person--will also be an empowered, mature Mars person, unlike the abusive immature Mars guys you've dated. Probably with some Pisces-like and Scorpio-like traits, too, and probably with some earth sign-like stability, since your Venus and both of your seventh house rulers are in earth signs, but right now is not the time to be looking for that person. It's more important to build up yourself in relation to the Mars part of you.

I agree with you...I think in some ways I made half a way there in terms of now being in healthier relationships with people. Still, i want love- I have been on my own for years just working on myself and now it is time I feel.

What I know about yods is already in the last two posts. I'm also new to this aspect. I heard a lecture on them a couple of months ago, but I haven't done any study of them before or since. This thread is the very first time I've seen a yod problem clearly indicated. I'm learning by interpreting your chart!

Wow, cool thanks! I'm glad at least in was interesting. Are you interested in Lilith by any chance? Can offer that too lol. Yes I alos only found out about the yod a short time ago....Its mysterious.

Thank you it is super helpful
 

Osamenor

Staff member
This is interesting- usually I read it makes the planet weak to be on its own and in the 7th house. Isn't the 7th house about projecting into others? To me it feels I am dependent on other people to have energy or not to have it.
Interesting. I never thought of the seventh house that way. If that's your experience, it must be true, at least for you.

Maybe that's one way the seventh and eighth houses are connected. I think of the seventh house as meaning clearly defined and visible relationships, and eighth house as being the undercurrents of the relationship, the part that's felt rather than seen. The eighth house is also where taboos and shadows, repressed or conscious, live. I suppose the seventh house could connect back and be about projection, and drawing in--because who we draw into our lives and partner with is people whose characteristics and abilities complement ours, or who we project our suppressed traits onto, or both.
Now..for the YOD. I'm new to this but shouldnt Jupiter and Moon be the legs of the Mars? In this case both are about Scorpio/Virgo/..I wonder about that.
Indeed they are. I said that already. Mars/Aries is the apex, where the "finger of God" is pointing, while Jupiter/Virgo and Moon/Scorpio are the legs.

Aha! competition in Libra things? like maybe arts. advertising or politics? Or in Aries things like some kind of fight for a cause? The Jupiter makes me think- fight for a 12th house cause with empathy.
Why do you say Libra things?

You mentioned a love of intellectual debate. With your Mercury trine Jupiter, it makes sense. Have you ever done competitive debating?

Is there anything physical that you particularly enjoy? Maybe dance, sports, martial arts, hiking, or just plain getting your hands in something, like gardening or kneading bread or creating art? I ask because of that combination of strong Mars and sun plus two personal planets in Taurus. Taurus is a very physical sign. Along with Arian Mars, that might lend itself well to physical competition. If your competitive instincts run more to the intellectual than the physical, maybe the physicality of Taurus manifests for you in another way.

I see what you mean. Although to be honest my former partners did end up being enemies of mine- surprising and shocking me.
Were these your former abusive and/or addicted and/or criminal partners, the Scorpio types? Or do your former partner enemies include the safe Virgo types?

If it was the first, abusive partners are enemies to their partners, and typically become greater enemies when the abused partner chooses to end the relationship.

Good question. I guess the only thing I can think of is art and filmmaking- I gave up that dream. Do you see any indicators for that as a career? guess I can say i gave up my power of ambition and desire in life.
What made you give up that dream?


I like what you wrote about a mature Mars person- but how would one recognize a person like that?

There's a prime example in the recent election. Hillary Clinton is mature Mars. Donald Trump is immature Mars. Both have very strong Mars in their charts, but it's clear which one is working with it consciously and which one is being run away with by it.

I see it really well...I'm just not very sure what this Mars energy is for me. I know Pluto, intense emotion, pain, dark shadow aspects of myself...But my Mars that vital power?
I suspect it might be. In addition to aggression and competition, Mars represents our passions. You say you gave up your "power of ambition and desire in life." If you've given that up, you've given up your Mars. But it's too feisty to be really given up. If you try, it works against you.
I need other people to own it and meet it and so far people and friends keep stabbing me in the back and taking my strength. I don't mean it in that I blame others- but probably something about me calls fro them to know I have no boundaries and they can go deep into my heart and hurt me. So i'm working on having armor.
Have you always been without boundaries? Or did that happen when you gave up your desire in life?

Boundaries makes me think Saturn. I'm not sure how your Saturn ties in, but I do notice that it's the focal point of a t-square and the other points include your moon, which is one of the legs of your yod, and your sun/Venus conjunction.
 
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