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  #26  
Unread 04-06-2013, 04:48 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Hi Abby, thanks for your feedback (she hums a few bars of "Getting to know You....")

It sounds as though you have had some genuinely rotten experiences, and understandably reacted defensively to them. I would, too, in your shoes.

Incidentally, I have had other bullying experiences-- notably when I was a 20-something and had a Good Ol' Boy supervisor in a summer job I badly wanted to convert to full-time; when I had a colleague in my first academic job who found me threatening and also tried to destroy my career; when I ran into a "gang of four" in my department during my next appointment, plus an associate dean who respected neither me nor my entire discipline. The jealous colleague who set up a gossip campaign amongst the grad students (very unprofessional) against me. Oh, and did I mention the Mean Girls at summer camp?

Fortunately these episodes have been interspersed with contacts with many, many good and decent people. Moreover, I really had to recognize, with my cold-shouldering co-workers at my last job, that they were not entirely bad people. Some of them had lots of friends-- more than I did. Some of them got service awards from their professional societies. Some of them were loved by their students.

I see them more, from my retirement distance, as products of their culture-- to which I was an outsider.

So I think that most people are merely and deeply human. We are all flawed human beings. Parts of most people are admirable while some parts are not admirable. On the tails of the statistical distribution are the few people who are truly up to no good, and the few genuinely good and kind people without a bad word to say to or about anyone.

Like yourself, I saw co-workers in higher positions where they seemed to perform badly. Once I climbed the ladder, I saw myself making my own mistakes-- notably when the office scuttlebut got back to me.

So maybe respect for other people comes from recognizing our common and deeply flawed humanity. We are not perfect people, so we have to cut some slack for other imperfect people.

Somehow we all have to muddle through and get along. If we cannot embrace our common humanity, warts and all, the outcome of our personal interactions is negative and predictable.

One thing I would recommend, as you delve more deeply into astrology, that you use it as kind of a work-book for designing the type of life and personality you want-- not the one you think you're stuck with. Each horoscope offers us specific assets, challenges, and above all-- opportunities. A horoscope shows only a potential.

I highly recommend Steven Forrest, The Inner Sky. You can find it on-line if not at your nearest New Age book store. Also, one Australian astrologer whom I greatly admire is Alice Portman, www.aliceportman.com . You can reach her on-line for a consultation, and she will be more familiar with your social context than most of us would be.

Basically, with your sun-Mercury-Pluto in Libra, you could start with thinking about Libran qualities: not as qualities you necessarily already possess (as we are all socialized by parents and society to some degree,) but as your evolutionary goal. You've mentioned balance, but a big one is relatedness. Venus-ruled Libra is a social sign. But it relates in a very quid pro quo sort of way. The other person always deserves the respect you want for yourself. Justice-- not only for yourself but for others.

In terms of balance, this is something Libra seeks as a goal, although it may not find it at any given time. Serenity. Have you tried yoga or a meditation technique to calm yourself? Your ultra-strong philosophical Jupiter should be an asset here.

Then let's bring in the other players. A sun-Pluto conjunction is wide , yet you may feel it. This can be the energy of "dominate or be dominated." It can give your identity a lot of strength but is not too helpful in forging friendships based on reciprocity. Your progressed sun would have hit your natal Pluto around the age of 11 or 12, and would have been in-orb for several years before and after. Is this when your difficulties began? Some hardships are suggested when your progressed sun hit Saturn, around the age of 17.

At a young age, we are pretty defenseless because we have not yet had sufficient life experience to cope well with the hard outer planets, especially if family support is lacking.

With your strong moon-Jupiter in Sagittarius, can you develop an optimistic life philosophy or even a compatible religious faith? You don't seem to trust the universe to support you, yet this is Jupiter's message and potential.

And so on around your horoscope.

__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #27  
Unread 04-06-2013, 07:01 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post

So maybe respect for other people comes from recognizing our common and deeply flawed humanity. We are not perfect people, so we have to cut some slack for other imperfect people.

Somehow we all have to muddle through and get along. If we cannot embrace our common humanity, warts and all, the outcome of our personal interactions is negative and predictable.
so well said waybread. and true.
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  #28  
Unread 04-06-2013, 08:51 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Waybread -

Im going to find this task very difficult. Difficult because my mars energy (I want this and I want that) is exactly what saved my life time and time again in dire situations. I can see now that I use it as a defense if I feel a threat to my progress. So my biggest challenge will be to stay in control whilst also letting go if it at times. The thought of it alone makes me feel sick, disempowered and low and weak. I feel without the mars energy for protection I will die in this world. Now I can see primary school wasn't a problem for me because that fear of surviving wasn't there, but in later yrs it was.

I get told time and time again from astrologers that I need to balance my need for independence with socialising and relating to others. It's easier in the form of playing a sport like tennis but will be much harder when hierarchy is involved. The sound of a "make fun of myself cos im so bad at" tennis game seems appealing because of the lack of competition it can have if done for fun socially. so I like that idea. I wish I could find that in work though.

Last edited by Abby83; 04-06-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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  #29  
Unread 04-06-2013, 09:23 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Hi Abby, thanks for your feedback (she hums a few bars of "Getting to know You....")

It sounds as though you have had some genuinely rotten experiences, and understandably reacted defensively to them. I would, too, in your shoes.

Incidentally, I have had other bullying experiences-- notably when I was a 20-something and had a Good Ol' Boy supervisor in a summer job I badly wanted to convert to full-time; when I had a colleague in my first academic job who found me threatening and also tried to destroy my career; when I ran into a "gang of four" in my department during my next appointment, plus an associate dean who respected neither me nor my entire discipline. The jealous colleague who set up a gossip campaign amongst the grad students (very unprofessional) against me. Oh, and did I mention the Mean Girls at summer camp?

Fortunately these episodes have been interspersed with contacts with many, many good and decent people. Moreover, I really had to recognize, with my cold-shouldering co-workers at my last job, that they were not entirely bad people. Some of them had lots of friends-- more than I did. Some of them got service awards from their professional societies. Some of them were loved by their students.

I see them more, from my retirement distance, as products of their culture-- to which I was an outsider.

So I think that most people are merely and deeply human. We are all flawed human beings. Parts of most people are admirable while some parts are not admirable. On the tails of the statistical distribution are the few people who are truly up to no good, and the few genuinely good and kind people without a bad word to say to or about anyone.

Like yourself, I saw co-workers in higher positions where they seemed to perform badly. Once I climbed the ladder, I saw myself making my own mistakes-- notably when the office scuttlebut got back to me.

So maybe respect for other people comes from recognizing our common and deeply flawed humanity. We are not perfect people, so we have to cut some slack for other imperfect people.

Somehow we all have to muddle through and get along. If we cannot embrace our common humanity, warts and all, the outcome of our personal interactions is negative and predictable.

One thing I would recommend, as you delve more deeply into astrology, that you use it as kind of a work-book for designing the type of life and personality you want-- not the one you think you're stuck with. Each horoscope offers us specific assets, challenges, and above all-- opportunities. A horoscope shows only a potential.

I highly recommend Steven Forrest, The Inner Sky. You can find it on-line if not at your nearest New Age book store. Also, one Australian astrologer whom I greatly admire is Alice Portman, www.aliceportman.com . You can reach her on-line for a consultation, and she will be more familiar with your social context than most of us would be.

Basically, with your sun-Mercury-Pluto in Libra, you could start with thinking about Libran qualities: not as qualities you necessarily already possess (as we are all socialized by parents and society to some degree,) but as your evolutionary goal. You've mentioned balance, but a big one is relatedness. Venus-ruled Libra is a social sign. But it relates in a very quid pro quo sort of way. The other person always deserves the respect you want for yourself. Justice-- not only for yourself but for others.

In terms of balance, this is something Libra seeks as a goal, although it may not find it at any given time. Serenity. Have you tried yoga or a meditation technique to calm yourself? Your ultra-strong philosophical Jupiter should be an asset here.

Then let's bring in the other players. A sun-Pluto conjunction is wide , yet you may feel it. This can be the energy of "dominate or be dominated." It can give your identity a lot of strength but is not too helpful in forging friendships based on reciprocity. Your progressed sun would have hit your natal Pluto around the age of 11 or 12, and would have been in-orb for several years before and after. Is this when your difficulties began? Some hardships are suggested when your progressed sun hit Saturn, around the age of 17.

At a young age, we are pretty defenseless because we have not yet had sufficient life experience to cope well with the hard outer planets, especially if family support is lacking.

With your strong moon-Jupiter in Sagittarius, can you develop an optimistic life philosophy or even a compatible religious faith? You don't seem to trust the universe to support you, yet this is Jupiter's message and potential.

And so on around your horoscope.
This is a very good post. Spot on about the dominate others or they will dominate you in relation to the sun pluto conjunction. It seems to be the way it pans out in my relationships, even my mother who is very bossy and demanding so I try to stay on top of her.

And spot on again with the progressed sun info. At age 17, that's when the major hardships kicked in.

Yoga does help my body but I find it too boring.

I do like going to church, but that doesn't pay the bills.

QUOTE "So maybe respect for other people comes from recognizing our common and deeply flawed humanity. We are not perfect people, so we have to cut some slack for other imperfect people." QUOTE

When things go bad for you for at least 3 yrs to the point of rock bottom and the ppl you thought u could rely on are no longer there to help(eg mother got sick and father not interested, brother went off the rails with drugs unemployed, and my friends' lives were on the positive, which is good for them), how on earth can u even think about socialising, being there for others caring and loving when u have no love, care or support for yourself at that time. Times like these I think you need to be fully focused on yourself which makes it a hell of a lot harder to interact with others. Particularly because at that time the situation was reversed for my friends and things were going well for them with support from their families. And ive known very well since this age of 17 (progressed sun crossing into scorpio) that I am far from perfect, in fact, all the flaws came to surface and this is becoming very difficult to handle. Ive since married my husband who although I love to bits, the only flaw I see in him is that he criticises me. I don't dress nice enough, I don't wear any make up, I don't have a proper job, I shud do this better etc. Him and his family had all the nurturing and support I never had. They are ungrateful for their support and it's difficult not to resent ppl like that. His family didn't accept me at first cos they all have higher profile jobs and income but it's better now. I get criticised many times. My life is definitely not rosey since the age of 17, or even 12 to say the least. So as far as respecting others more, it is difficult in times when you need more love and support than ever. How can u put on a happy face when it doesn't ring true. Ppl can see through to the pain behind the smile. Who wants to be around a person like that.

Last edited by Abby83; 04-06-2013 at 09:43 PM.
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  #30  
Unread 04-06-2013, 09:43 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Hi Abby-- Just now transiting Neptune is pinging on your Mars-Venus. This is a time when whatever you thought you knew about Mars (aka your assertiveness) may suddenly dissolve under Neptune's tides, whether you want it to or not. You may feel discouraged, disillusioned, or as though your energy is very low. Not a good time for alcohol, drugs, or anything that harms your immune system such as smoking, BTW, as you are especially vulnerable at this time. (Not saying you do any of these. Just sayin'.)

The purpose, however, is to let go of any self-defeating behaviours. Because something beneficial that you dismissed about your innate sense of assertiveness may turn out to be valid, after all, and you want to create space for it to flourish.

It appears that in the past you needed your Woman Warrior nature just to survive-- emotionally and perhaps even physically. So the key is to honour your past, and realize that your trusty sword Virgo Mars was there when you neeeded to fight off the forces of evil.

But now is different. You've moved on. You can think through a more empowering interpretation of Mars in your life.

One is athletics, which Mars rules. Tennis? Yoga? I'd suggest even something like adventure travel overseas, if your finances permit. Something where you test your raw courage with finesse (Virgo's detail orientation) such as fencing or wind-surfing, but that doesn't involve duking it out with the office staff.

Another good use of your Woman Warrior nature would be to take advantage of your twelfth house placements and to champion people less fortunate than yourself.

Ultimately in astrology, however, there is no one else out there. The enemies are mostly within, and we can learn to work with them, rather than against them.

You might set some goals at the office, like 4 or 5. What would you most like to accomplish where your co-workers are concerned? Friendly relationships? Temwork? Mutual support? I don't mean the stuff like, "I want my boss to drop dead so someone nice can work here." Or "I want Miss Priss to get--and theirs. Then each day, take one baby step in the direction of your goals. The universe will notice, and if you are persistent and serious, it will begin to shift accordingly.

One other thing that helped me during my longest siege period was thinking of some humourous rejoinders.

If someone goofs up and you know you could do better, say something like, "Don't worry, I probably would have done the same thing myself." Because you might have.

If someone does something good, say, "I just wanted to tell you, I thought you handled the Smith case very well."

If a bully gets in your face: "Don't be shy, Ralph. It's OK to say exactly what you think. No need withhold your feelings." Or, "Gosh, Ralph-- why didn't you tell me you had such a big crush on me? I had no idea your insults were just a ruse to hide your true feelings. Sorry, but I'm already taken."

These may or may not play well where you work-- but hopefully they illustrate some possibilities.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #31  
Unread 04-06-2013, 09:45 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Abby-- Just saw your latest, but I gotta run now. Back later tonight (in my time zone.)
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #32  
Unread 04-06-2013, 09:57 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

QUOTE"One is athletics, which Mars rules. Tennis? Yoga? I'd suggest even something like adventure travel overseas, if your finances permit. Something where you test your raw courage with finesse (Virgo's detail orientation) such as fencing or wind-surfing, but that doesn't involve duking it out with the office staff.

Another good use of your Woman Warrior nature would be to take advantage of your twelfth house placements and to champion people less fortunate than yourself."QUOTE

I would love this, which is why I did a diploma in fitness. Problem is, since the age of 17, the thing that started this whole problem of mine was a chronic left foot injury. Still have it today at age 29. I have since worked around this injury. (mars is to do with the energy and vitality, but it is afflicted with the moon which desires the adventurous physical activities and travel). Now it's starting to make sense. So this is not the area for me in the work sense because I keep getting injured. Might I add that my injury was always reactivated during travel and physical hobbies. The only good aspect to the mars is the sextile to the Saturn in 12th house. So im thinking the only other way to use this warrior energy is the second option you said in your post - to champion ppl less fortunate than me. Since I don't have any quals in this field, do u know anywhere I can do this where I might get paid also. If not that's fine, am just curious if you know. It may just end up being charity.
That goal writing is a good idea to become more aware of behaviour and impulses at work.

Ps - I do think life isn't fair though. As a result how can you not resent the universe. I look at the chart of the guy who broke my heart, he has juno conjunct mars conjunct venus in Taurus, in opposition to uranus. Beautifully aspected for a super sexed chart and commitment. His sun not too far away so he met the woman of his dreams, married her, is still with her, has highly sexed affairs on the side without ever getting caught - I was almost one of them until I found out. His Saturn is so far away from his sun he'll never experience the progressed sun Saturn conjunction. In cases like this, I definitely think life isn't fair.

Last edited by Abby83; 04-06-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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  #33  
Unread 04-07-2013, 06:37 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Hi Abby-- To paraphrase a late American advice columnist, when life hands you a lemon how do you make lemonade?

So life isn't fair-- we both agree. On the other hand, it probably is a lot more fair to you and me than it is to victims of famine, war, and natural disasters. It is probably a lot more fair to us than to people suffering from chronic wasting diseases or mutilating injuries, and so on.

Somehow you have to dig down deep within yourself and take a stand for your life, simply because you say so.

Fortunately Scorpio and Pluto are good at this.

The trouble with looking to your external circumstances to decide whether you can be happy or not, is that you become an emotional weather-vane, turning the way the wind blows.

Happiness is not something bestowed by fate to the few lucky ones. The older I get, the more I see happiness as a personal choice.

Jealousy is another one of those all-too-human traits that all of us share, but it is totally unproductive. Normally we would never wish to be someone else, if we had to take on his or her entire life, not just cherry-pick the parts we find most admirable.

"Resent[ing] the universe" is totally unproductive. The universe is impersonal. It is chunks of rock and burning gas hurtling through space. From a pragmatic perspective, what is the point?

So a guy who cheats on his wife will never experience progressed sun conjunct Saturn? Nor I. On the other hand, he will get transiting Saturn conjunct sun and probably a few other transits and progressions that are extremely difficult for most people to handle.

Abby, you wrote: "how on earth can u even think about socialising, being there for others caring and loving when u have no love, care or support for yourself at that time. Times like these I think you need to be fully focused on yourself which makes it a hell of a lot harder to interact with others. Particularly because at that time the situation was reversed for my friends and things were going well for them with support from their families."

You "care and love others" because this is the stand you take for yourself. Not because you look to your external circumstances or other people to decide whether you can be happy or not.

You also wrote: "So as far as respecting others more, it is difficult in times when you need more love and support than ever. How can u put on a happy face when it doesn't ring true. Ppl can see through to the pain behind the smile. Who wants to be around a person like that."

You need to find within yourself your own love and support. Because this is the promise and the stand you have taken for yourself as a mature adult. Few people want to be around a self-styled victim. A lot of people want to be around someone who is kind, interested in them, and courageous.

Do you really know what trials other people live with ongoingly? Do you really know, among the people you meet routinely, who has had cancer surgery, lost a child, has a son in jail, suffered a bad divorce, or is losing a loved one to Alzheimers? Why should you assumed they are unscathed by life?

Maybe start or end each day with something that does make you happy in the midst of the worst attacks of unhappiness. Your favourite music? Candles and fresh flowers on the dinner table? Some non-weight-bearing exercise? These may seem like so much smiley-face sublimation at first, but the universe notices if you start taking small steps to improve your mental state-- simply because this is your stand in life.

You mentioned pregancy earlier. If you have a young child at home, then surely you need to model a constructive outlook on life for his/her sake.

I wouldn't suggest you make hard-and-fast rules about exercise. There are plenty of sports that shouldn't re-injure your foot, like aquatic exercise or kayaking. From a volunteer perspective, maybe think about assisting at your next and nearest para-olympics. The 12th house rules prisons: you could look up your nearest John Howard or Elizabeth Fry society. It also rules hospitals. If you call any hospital switchboard (or go online) and ask to speak to the volunteer coordinator, you will hopefully get some response.

Job-wise, one question is what qualifications you have now, and whether you are able to devote the time and money to return for more education if you need it for your dream job.

"What would you do if you weren't afraid?"
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #34  
Unread 04-07-2013, 08:06 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Halalujah. Im so happy you said that. Yes im focusing too much on what others have and not what they don't have. It's not healthy even if life isn't fair.
Atm have diploma in fitness and diploma in massage. But like I said, the past taught me not to rely on physical jobs as our family members injure easily, affecting finances etc.

Ps - Ive sent you a private message to express my deeper thoughts for you.
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Unread 04-07-2013, 05:21 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Hi Abby-- Career-wise we look at the chart overall to get a sense of the person. Then the planetary ruler of the cusp of the 10th house by house and aspects can say a lot about the ideal career. The 6th house gives more of a "just a job" indication, whereas the 10th house gives more of a sense of vocation. The second house shows how we are likely to make and handle money.

The ruler of your 10th house cusp is the sun, and it is in the 12th house, strongly suggesting an altruistic approach to your career, ideally working with people less fortunate than yourself, or a cause bigger than yourself. The 12th is the traditional "house of self-undoing," so the sun in the twelfth essentially fights a losing battle if it construes life as, "All about me."

Interestingly, some prominent politicians have 12 house suns! But I think the reason is that they identify with the needs of their constituents, and with political causes bigger than themselves.

This is kind of a karmic house, as well. If people dedicate their lives to serving others, they are apt to get back what they give out. Ideally this doesn't come from thinking, "You poor slobs. Since your lives aren't working out, I'm here to improve them for you." Ideally it comes from a deep respect for their humanity. As you give of yourself, you get back their appreciation.

One of my favourite quotes is Buddhist: "When I don't know who I am, I serve you. When I know who I am, I am you."

With your sun quintile you MC, however, you are ambitious, so you need a career that will allow you opportunities for promotion and personal growth.

Mars ruling your sixth house suggests work involving athletics, whereas Venus in the 10th (though cuspy with the 11th) suggests something artistic or involving women.

Jupiter ruling your 7th house cusp could suggest higher education, developing a life philosophy, law, or publishing.

So we could play around with these options and suggest:

1. physiotherapy, dance therapy. Personal trainer for people with disabilities.
2. Law on behalf of less fortunate people. (The law is a 9th house/Jupiter/Sag matter-- note that your moon rules your 9th, and it is in Sagittarius conjunct a domiciled Jupiter.) These placements also suggest you would enjoy returning to university. Litigation is a 7th house matter. Your Venus is in the 10th, conjunct Mars.
3. Physical education teacher. 5th house=children. Pisces is ruled by Neptune (in your second money house) and Jupiter (back to university?) You don't have to play sports here-- just have the capacity to teach them.

While I realize that higher education is expensive, you have nothing to lose by making an appointment with an admissions counselor at your nearest campus to discuss the possibility, and also looking for curricula on-line. There are a lot of distance education programs on-line these days. You can find out about financial aid possibilities. I think your Jupiter muscles would enjoy flexing themselves! Most universities encourage older, returning students.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #36  
Unread 04-08-2013, 01:49 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Thank you Waybread for this, and again I have written you a private message.

Thank you Zarathu and Skillcoil for your lovely, useful and informative messages also. You are all very helpful and I appreciate the info greatly.

Last edited by Abby83; 04-08-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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Unread 06-01-2020, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
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Hi again, Abby. Back to you!

Please realize that I am not trying to make you feel defensive. You gave a heart-felt request for help in your OP, and I am trying to provide it. If how you've behaved around bullies to date has truly supported you, I don't think you would have asked for astrological assistance. Your own evidence is that it has not worked for you very well, so the purpose of our exchange is to see what you can move to a different footing.

A truism of modern astrology is that any given horoscope placements have empowering, constructive or negative, destructive expressions. You gotta be you, but you can do so in empowering or disempowering ways. A worst case is that a person suppresses planetary energies that are not OK with her. But the horoscope will out, so these energies will then normally manifest externally as other people who seemingly embody the unwanted qualities. But really, they are only the "shadow" material of her disowned parts of herself (to paraphrase Jung.)

So I am wondering how you feel about Saturn-Pluto. Scorpio rising? Are these energies you try to exemplify in your own life in a constructive way? Or have you disowned them and projected them onto other people? This doesn't mean you have no objective evidence of bullying, or course you do. Rather, that your horoscope will express itself one way or another.

Of course, you're entitled to your experiences and views, but they are not ipso facto logical, and they do not seem to support you in life. (Coming from a different perspective astrologically, Aquarius is an egalitarian, and Uranus has little patience with old-fashioned heirarchical snobbery, just to cite alternatives.)

My evidence is what you have posted about being upset about bullies; and also that however you've been responding to them in life to date, your strategy doesn't seem to be working for you.

So let's look at what you wrote in your previous posts. You were the "golden child," the "favourite." You shouldn't have to change yourself to please others (so presumably if there's some conflict, the others have to change, thus putting them in a subservient position.) You are the "nice" and "sweet" one and the others behave badly. You excel at things and the bullies do not. Bullies "are not on your level to begin with." Any "masculine man" or "feminine woman" is bound to resent you because you effectively do things better than they do. And "the large majority of society are like this."

Holy Toledo, Abby! At this point, let's just throw away the astrology, because your comments speak for themselves. Of course co-workers or classmates are going to resent such attitudes. Some of your statements have nothing to do with your particular victim experiences, but suggest that you carry a chip on your shoulder a country-mile wide.

I've explained astrologically in previous posts what I think is going on: some of your placements suggest that you slip into bad moods without being aware of what impact they have on others. Another placement suggests a Sagittarian sense of "Dam*, I'm good." Which isn't bad, unless your social interactions get construed as a competitive zero-sum game. You have not got a hope in Hades of fixing your problem if you construe the majority of Australians as hard-wired to resent you.

So I have to ask, do you swing from one sort of feeling to the other? If you were not the best of the bunch, would you see yourself as failing miserably? Are you OK with coming in third best? How would you describe your teamwork skills?

Also, it is fine for you not to say thanks for the time and effort I've voluntarily put into your thread. Those of us who read charts frequently are used to it, but it does say something about the quality of social interaction of the poster. Again, I observe what people write-- or do not write-- by way of understanding why they might experience the problems for which they seek advice.
You are better than me...8th hs Sco Moon Merc Mars Venus. Sag Sun and Nep 3rd Gem Sat NN MC and Jup 10th Pluto Uranus Lib in 7th because my brain nearly exploded. Bless you! If you cant tell by my placements I am a defender of the underdog, a righter of wrongs and the guardian of those bullied. Everything you said was on mark. The way in which u articulated yourself was that of a master. Where were u when I needed a great teacher. I cant say anything you havent already and certainly not better. Bravo! Truly impressed 😉
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Unread 06-02-2020, 08:46 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Since starting this thread ive learnt how to deal with bullies by educating myself about narcissistic personality disorder and connecting to god. Sometimes i refer to the bible but i also now ask for visions and songs to be played to me to answer my questions. I am now very good at dealing with abusers and I understand it had nothing to do with me and it was all to do with the abuser. And i am disappointed in all the ppl here who tried to point the finger at me as if i did something wrong to cause a person to abuse me. And sometimes god gives us difficult situations to teach us lessons.
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Re: Adult bullying

I haven't read the whole of this thread but I've noticed that human nature seems to like to blame and 'gang up on' someone who is being attacked, or talking about being attacked. It's like a group mentality thing as well as a gang mentality to suddenly project on to someone who is showing vulnerability.

What I would like to know is why this phenomena occurs and what are the underlying causes for it. I am aware of the theory of a kind of Darwin approach, were we have evolved from being pack animals and the animal still in us wants to kill off the weak for survival.

But what about a spiritual explanation? Narcissism causes humans to project and attack but what is it on a soul-level that makes the human nature bully someone who is already being bullied? It's dark.
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Re: Adult bullying

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
I haven't read the whole of this thread but I've noticed that human nature seems to like to blame and 'gang up on' someone who is being attacked, or talking about being attacked. It's like a group mentality thing as well as a gang mentality to suddenly project on to someone who is showing vulnerability.

What I would like to know is why this phenomena occurs and what are the underlying causes for it. I am aware of the theory of a kind of Darwin approach, were we have evolved from being pack animals and the animal still in us wants to kill off the weak for survival.

But what about a spiritual explanation? Narcissism causes humans to project and attack but what is it on a soul-level that makes the human nature bully someone who is already being bullied? It's dark.
Amen. As for narcissism, ive been connecting with god re my situation and he showed me the lesson through the song - 'If it aint you,' by Alicia Keys. Basically it means that nothing in the world means anything without your loved ones, so choose what is most important and focus on that. In my case, when my MIL tried to take my kids away from me i was worried about money, and gossip and image. But god was trying to teach me that all of that means nothing if you dont have your baby. And that MIL was so dangerous i could have easily lost my child to her. Similar lessons to those who bullied me at the massage school and gym (it was all happening at once. Obviously god was trying to tell me something). The lesson again being that your status and income and image and popularity dont mean ****. Now that i have learnt this lesson my life is far more fulfilling. I go this message from god in my dreams but i find it interesting that if you read the bible there are verses that talk about how god will punish those who live for the money and the flesh.
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Unread 06-04-2020, 11:04 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Interesting... I want to read this thread in a bit more detail since yours are always thoughtful - and also because your last post has been very relevant to stuff going on around me though not happening to me.


Quote:

So maybe respect for other people comes from recognizing our common and deeply flawed humanity. We are not perfect people, so we have to cut some slack for other imperfect people.
Trying to promote this general idea in non-astrological terms in another place as we had some kinks due to some of the issues talked about here in the recent pages.


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I understand that pluto in the 12th house conjunct sun and saturn is common for bullying. Also my mid heaven squares pluto and Saturn. Mars is square chiron, Uranus, Jupiter and moon.

Sun-Pluto certainly (can relate with that in my own chart, tons of experiences starting very early) and if Saturn is somehow "elevated" there is the kind of restriction being enforced by authority figures for quite a while at least until the Saturn return it seems. Mars square Uranus (also one of my mine) doesn't so much cause bullying per se as wanting to do things in one's own way which may be seen as rebellion or insubordination in certain business environments though that aspect just seeks independence for one to have the freedom to operate; however it does increase the risk of accidents in the process of doing this. Now Mars square Chiron I can see inviting straight up bullying as one's assertion (Mars) may trigger Chiron-like negative responses in others who get hurt and act defensively or perhaps sometimes offensively.
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Re: Adult bullying

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Ps - how do I post transits and progressions, where do I get it from.
Here you are -

tx in red, prog in green


things of note immediately - Chiron opp prog. Venus and then we have prog. Moon applying to conjunct Chiron by transit although in its forward movement it already passed over it once in the last... 2 months? (I had Chiron square Moon/still have some passes left of that and yes this one is bonkers not good)


but..but.. buut I just noticed it - your progressed Sun is crossing over your natal Ascendant like right now!!! wow


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Re: Adult bullying

Thank you Jaxx -

Yeah, sun on ascendant hey . Funny, cos i feel i have less of an ego now.

I just want to say something. Lots of people are commenting about my comment where i said i think ppl were bullying me cos of my hair or my talents or cos i was the golden child etc. But that was my assumption of why i was bullied. Now i can see that's not the case at all. I can very much see the issues behind the ppl who bullied. I see that they had their own personal negative feelings and opinions and they dumped it on me. And tbh, some ppl are just careless dickheads with a viewpoint that they're always right. All this time i was thinking it's me. That im the reason i was bullied. That im the one who did something wrong. Yet all god was trying to do was teach me what was most important in life. I dragged out the bullying by caring too much about what they were thinking and why and overanalysing. But tbh, i did this so i could learn about bullying, and in the end, i did. Yay. Hooray!!!!
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Unread 06-05-2020, 09:48 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Lol yeah you picked up on the meaning of that Sun crossing. I think it's a good one to have especially if people have suppressed who you are in a way, this will help bring it all rightfully back


Quote:

And tbh, some ppl are just careless dickheads with a viewpoint that they're always right.

Yeah tell me about it... this has been a problem as of (relatively) recently I've had to deal with - but you are right in your analysis and you ended up getting sucked into those situations because you were sensitive enough to try to listen to them where they may have been just flat out ignored elsewhere. So.. you gave them more air time than they deserved. I hope they enjoyed it because it might have been the last time for them given that attitude on their side.
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Re: Adult bullying

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Lol yeah you picked up on the meaning of that Sun crossing. I think it's a good one to have especially if people have suppressed who you are in a way, this will help bring it all rightfully back





Yeah tell me about it... this has been a problem as of (relatively) recently I've had to deal with - but you are right in your analysis and you ended up getting sucked into those situations because you were sensitive enough to try to listen to them where they may have been just flat out ignored elsewhere. So.. you gave them more air time than they deserved. I hope they enjoyed it because it might have been the last time for them given that attitude on their side.
Thank you. You understand exactly what im saying and im really happy about that. Im too sick of ppl blaming the person who is being projected onto. Far out. Im seeing it everywhere not only to myself but others as well. Ppl just love making assumptions that the one being bullied is the problem. Ugh. At least ive learnt what i needed to learn. Now god is the one with the power and im leaving it to him.
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Re: Adult bullying

That's *****exactly***** what I had to deal with the way you described it. Yes.


There was another situation resembling this that happened last year with a friend - the friend was being bullied but they were being basically hurt by the other person who came out of it looking like the innocent side in the community where this happened - of course it wasn't quite as a cut and dry as that but for a time no one considered that this person was the victim here. Based on how this happened they'll be dealing with issues now that might take years of therapy or whatever for them to feel good about life in lots of ways because of this experience.
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Unread 06-08-2020, 08:40 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

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That's *****exactly***** what I had to deal with the way you described it. Yes.


There was another situation resembling this that happened last year with a friend - the friend was being bullied but they were being basically hurt by the other person who came out of it looking like the innocent side in the community where this happened - of course it wasn't quite as a cut and dry as that but for a time no one considered that this person was the victim here. Based on how this happened they'll be dealing with issues now that might take years of therapy or whatever for them to feel good about life in lots of ways because of this experience.
YESSS!!!! I can relate. This is one aspect of what happened to me and what gave me anxiety attacks. That was until i learned the lesson (for myself) to remove myself from them as much as i could (even if in the same room) and only surrounding myself with my loved ones and those who truly care. This might only be 3 ppl in your life, or it might even be no-one, but you need to protect yourself. Plus, popularity dont mean **** in the end.
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Re: Adult bullying

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and only surrounding myself with my loved ones and those who truly care.

pretty much cried reading this because partly also was explaining exactly this to one of those people just recently - and you are right, there are only going to be a few but they are the ones worth keeping even if they are not popular or whatever exactly as you put it


I don't know, you made my day with this post
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Unread 06-10-2020, 04:56 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

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pretty much cried reading this because partly also was explaining exactly this to one of those people just recently - and you are right, there are only going to be a few but they are the ones worth keeping even if they are not popular or whatever exactly as you put it


I don't know, you made my day with this post
Ooo I'm so happy that this post has helped you yay . Glad the info has been of good use. Hope everything will work out.
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Unread 06-16-2020, 04:45 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

I haven't read all of the posts on here but I did read the one where you feel you have learned to spot narcissist behaviour and that you don't blame yourself. What you need is both self compassion and compassion from others as how can you be blamed for someone Bullying you. Regardless of transits etc. Not all bullies will be narcissist but what is likely is inadequacies, jealousies and negative (not healthy) competition. I would also say low self esteem to as to if you felt OK about yourself then why would you want to hurt someone. I the nk someone mentioned on here about gang bullying otherwise known as mobbing that usually starts with one individual who manipulates many others through viscous rumours etc so you end up isolated. In this you are unlikely to find a particular transits for the crowd, but you may find Pluto sun or mars Pluto or a negative Neptune (deceit) in your own transits while you are going through this. Like I say, I haven't read all of the posts so don't know what everyone else has said. But for sure, you can't be blamed for someone attacking you whether that is physically, verbally or psychologically either as an individual or as a gang. I would also advise to walk away from them as far away as possible. Hope you are OK now. Its awful to have that happen eh
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