No such thing as a bad chart?

clip11

Well-known member
How can this be said in all seriousness? Lets say you have 2 babies born this year one has a natal chart with placements indicating he could end up a short, ugly 40 year old virgin, lots of placements for mental illness and that he'll have to work hard for any success he gets which will come late in life.

The other has a chart with placements indicating he'll be tall and handsome, popular with women, wealth will come easily and early in life. He'll be popular and have lots of friends and be very charming.

How then can one say 'theres no such thing as a bad chart'?
 

petosiris

Banned
Jesus was a short, ugly 33 year old virgin when he died. He suffered from persecution and presumably Neptune aspects. He died on a cross (possibly something to do with Saturn).


Meanwhile Pontius Pilate was tall and handsome, popular with women, wealth came easily and early in life. He was popular with lots of friends and very charming.


Guess which one is still worshipped today?

Pontius lived the better life I would say.
 
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petosiris

Banned
How can this be said in all seriousness? Lets say you have 2 babies born this year one has a natal chart with placements indicating he could end up a short, ugly 40 year old virgin, lots of placements for mental illness and that he'll have to work hard for any success he gets which will come late in life.

The other has a chart with placements indicating he'll be tall and handsome, popular with women, wealth will come easily and early in life. He'll be popular and have lots of friends and be very charming.

How then can one say 'theres no such thing as a bad chart'?

Most charts are neither happy nor unhappy, but moderately fortunate. Happiness results from fortune of dignity, that is by occupation and higher rank in whatever actions the person is doing.
 

petosiris

Banned
Why does someone who can only see exaltations and falls and detriments even practice Western astrology? Aren't there easier ways to follow the herd? I've met a number of astrologers who are analytically skilled and decently well-read, but who miss entirely the holistic "why is this person consulting me?" of the question. Honestly, why would you tell someone they have a bad chart? Instead of asking about what it is they've had to face during their lives and overcome, or instead of asking what shortcomings exist in your analytical system?
I'll never forget a restaurant owner who approached me and asked to read my chart (!) because my karma looked so positive. He couldn't find it in my chart and re-read me as a person based on what he saw on paper. Maybe - re-read the tools instead?

Many people want to know from the astrologer if they are going to be successful, honoured or famous. What would you tell them?
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
It depends on the so-called traditional astrologer, too. One might see a chart filled with exaltations and domiciled planets and exclaim great things portending the native, while another might be a little wary of seeing so many dignified planets in the chart. It's on the same octave of seeing predominantly soft-aspected charts belonging to those who do great harm like serial killers, or those with unremarkable lives.

What would a "good" chart look like in psychological astrology?
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I wonder about that brand of holism and it's relation to "goodness". I guess when you talk about what is a good and a bad chart, you are asking the question, "what is the best life a human can live?".

Kurt Cobain. 8 planets in water. Would you say his chart is bad or good? What about his life?
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cobain,_Kurt

What about Bruce Lee. No planets in air. Good or bad chart? You think his life was a "good" one.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lee,_Bruce

I think both lived "fateful" lives, and they spent most of their time following their passions. Both charts are extreme, and perhaps the extremity of both was too much for them to sustain, leading to their early deaths. Hey, maybe deep down that's what they wanted. I don't believe that true happiness or mastery necessarily follows from one who has inordinate free-will, and most people would be weary of the responsibility that having a truly free-will would come with.

When I look at a chart, instead of trying to find the "meta-ideal" of what a perfect life should be, I try to figure out what the personal ideal is of the chart native, and to see if they are able to meet it or not. That's a much more graspable benchmark to reach. Otherwise you tend to miss the chart/individual in front of you.
 

clip11

Well-known member
Jesus was a short, ugly 33 year old virgin when he died. He suffered from persecution and presumably Neptune aspects. He died on a cross (possibly something to do with Saturn).


Meanwhile Pontius Pilate was tall and handsome, popular with women, wealth came easily and early in life. He was popular with lots of friends and very charming.


Guess which one is still worshipped today?

So all you have to do is be the son of god and co ruler of the universe.
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
It's on a case by case basis. Typically I don't answer these kinds of predictive questions from the natal because it interferes with the operation of the will. I suppose in psychological astrology you could say that a good chart doesn't look like a traditional good chart.

Also, just because the potential is in the chart, it doesn't necessarily mean the person lives up to it to its fullest.
 

katydid

Well-known member
To me, the question of 'good chart/bad chart' has to be answered in the context of the big picture----one's cosmic evolutionary journey. :ninja:

So a relatively 'good chart', in which the native has a nice balance of squares and trines, and a healthy balance of elements and modes, which gives them the ability to live a pretty nice, successful existence in this incarnation, may not give them the soulful evolutionary opportunity that they ultimately need, Ibn their cosmic journey.

Whereas a 'bad chart'---with a lot of malefics in challenging aspects to the lights, with few mitigating sextile or trines, perhaps with some dire Fixed Stars on the angles, and stelliums in the 6th and 12th, in opposition, and debilitated---:bandit:

That 'bad' chart might allow that soul a greater evolutionary opportunity, at the end of the difficult incarnation. :alien:
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
It's interesting to see the charts of successful people, that are often terribly difficult and challenging charts! And apparently provided the stimulus to overcome and succeed.
 

ardentika

Well-known member
Bad chart doesn't make bad life. It all comes down to the free will. You have certain themes in your chart that will never change ,ultimately it's up to you what you will chase. Material success or internal happiness.

And success is very different to each individual and that might not be evident in the chart unless the reader is highly intuitive .

I know a person with beautifully easy chart . All soft trines and sextiles,not one square or opposition. She ended being a difficult child , doing drugs in her teenagehood and ended up pregnant from a junkie , did drugs while pregnant , and now her family supports her. She is lazy and manipulative perhaps without even realizing.

So you can see how a good chart can produce bad results and vice versa.

Sadly you cannot say what is the ultimate truth and who likes to themselves, cos reality is a matter of perspective. Even if someone lies to themselves they might end up having a much better life than yours , regardless of their chart ,only cos they believed it.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Just because a chart is full of trines does not make it a good chart.

Free will? Oh. Good luck with that.

The old saying goes, You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

At the age of 9, Charles Manson's mother sold him for a bottle of beer.

Also at age 9 my friend Gary was put on the sidewalks of Las Vegas by his parents. They drove off and never returned. After 18 years in the country's toughest prisons, his body wasting away, Gary became a suicide.
(Tr. Pluto semisquare Sun, exact to minute. Natal -- Leo rising, Pluto 12th Leo square Sun Scorpio 4th).

Your first 7 years or so are of first importance in determining your life. Free will is virtually absent during this period.
 
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psycles3

New member
If you do not believe that you chose your time, date and place of birth before you were born, i can see why you might think there are "bad" charts. Life as a human being is chosen by your soul, as are your parents and health, wealth, skills and proclivities. Have faith that you know/knew what you were doing.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I happen to not share the commonly held view of a soul. I hope that's ok.

So I don't believe anyone chose anything. But they might have. It's certainly a possibility.

Let's assume Gary chose his tragic life. As I understand what was said earlier in the thread, we are supposed to be able to overcome initial negative circumstances (a "bad" chart) through use of our free will. If we fail it is because we had a failure of will.

Do I understand correctly?
 

ardentika

Well-known member
I happen to not share the commonly held view of a soul. I hope that's ok.

So I don't believe anyone chose anything. But they might have. It's certainly a possibility.

Let's assume Gary chose his tragic life. As I understand what was said earlier in the thread, we are supposed to be able to overcome initial negative circumstances (a "bad" chart) through use of our free will. If we fail it is because we had a failure of will.

Do I understand correctly?

I'd say life is tough. But I'd also say that as soon as we want to help ourselves , life supports us and carries us. As soon as we give up on ourselves so does life.

If we assumed we chose our challenges, perhaps your friend chose a highly difficult upbringing to overcome it. But maybe he just couldn't . That itself is a lesson of the soul. He might have been a very young and new soul that just couldn't deal with all the challenges.

We will never know the truth but it's best to believe something that soothes our soul and gives us hope for the future.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I'd say life is tough. But I'd also say that as soon as we want to help ourselves , life supports us and carries us. As soon as we give up on ourselves so does life.

If we assumed we chose our challenges, perhaps your friend chose a highly difficult upbringing to overcome it. But maybe he just couldn't . That itself is a lesson of the soul. He might have been a very young and new soul that just couldn't deal with all the challenges.

We will never know the truth but it's best to believe something that soothes our soul and gives us hope for the future.

That's interesting.
 

petosiris

Banned
I don't think anyone has ever suggested that we possess free will to choose our family or environment, but more like I can choose to go the doctor even if I am predestined (which in itself is a unfalsifiable concept) to have a certain disease.
 
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