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  #1  
Unread 01-16-2022, 11:22 PM
AlterAntiscia AlterAntiscia is offline
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Points of Trauma

I’m curious to know whether anyone has knowledge or experience using these parts

I haven’t found them listed anywhere but they reveal violent death indicators in the charts I’ve used them with

point of death axis : ASC+8th Cusp-MA/SA

point of sudden trauma : ASC+8th Cusp-MA/UR

Comments suggestions and criticism are welcome

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  #2  
Unread 01-26-2022, 10:06 PM
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Re: Points of Trauma

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterAntiscia View Post
Iím curious to know whether anyone has knowledge or experience using these parts

I havenít found them listed anywhere but they reveal violent death indicators in the charts Iíve used them with

point of death axis : ASC+8th Cusp-MA/SA

point of sudden trauma : ASC+8th Cusp-MA/UR

Comments suggestions and criticism are welcome
What does MA/SA and MA/UR represent? Is that the mid point between Mars and Saturn and the midpoint for Mars and Uranus?
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Unread 02-01-2022, 03:25 AM
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Re: Points of Trauma

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Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
What does MA/SA and MA/UR represent? Is that the mid point between Mars and Saturn and the midpoint for Mars and Uranus?
Yes thatís exactly what I meant
Not really interpreting them using sabian symbols or anything, just using them for prediction/readings.
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  #4  
Unread 02-07-2022, 12:06 AM
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Re: Points of Trauma

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Originally Posted by AlterAntiscia View Post
Yes that’s exactly what I meant
Not really interpreting them using sabian symbols or anything, just using them for prediction/readings.
Those are as like the formulae for Parts/Lots. I'll add them to the list. Thanks.

I'll also run them through the natal chart that I have posted and am convinced is the true natal chart of the Nazarene. I'll post on any significant developments.
I neither try to find such points, or parts, of death, nor do use them but I have checked them all out with the Nazarene's chart and did find some of interest. The results are in that thread or the thread about the death chart... I think both?
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Last edited by piercethevale; 02-07-2022 at 12:12 AM.
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Unread 02-07-2022, 01:13 AM
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Re: Points of Trauma

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterAntiscia View Post
I’m curious to know whether anyone has knowledge or experience using these parts

I haven’t found them listed anywhere but they reveal violent death indicators in the charts I’ve used them with

point of death axis : ASC+8th Cusp-MA/SA

point of sudden trauma : ASC+8th Cusp-MA/UR

Comments suggestions and criticism are welcome

I can understand the formula, if you are saying it's EITHER Mars or Uranus that takes a person out violently? or traumatically.

With Mars or Saturn because they are both malefics in old astrology and still are. I would not have thought midpoints, but perhaps thats possible too. Wondering where you found them, esp. for Uranus?



Personally, I found the Marakas more telling, but I'd love to hear more about the charts you studied with these formulas applied if you would be so inclined to share here.
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Unread 02-24-2022, 04:42 AM
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Re: Points of Trauma

I took down all of my posts that followed as I decided I want nothing more to do with such formulae, whether genuine or not, that allegedly provide knowledge about death and when it finds a human soul, as that is a horrible thing to be in possession of.
It takes away the joy of living and is damning for the dead.
Anything that interferes with free will can be troublesome and can create complications for an astrologer on so many levels. Ones' karma will definitely be affected for the worst.
My thanks to my clairvoyant friend, and spiritual confidante, Clarisse Conner, for allowing me some of Her time in assisting me in my deliberations over this and for providing the insight and guidence that she did... as always.
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  #7  
Unread 02-24-2022, 03:25 PM
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Re: Points of Trauma

My philosophy is different then most. I feel when one is at peace with their soul, they see death as Jesus did, just another phase of the cycle of birth and rebirth. To be reborn, one has to die first. In our dream world, many of us forget which world we are actually in. (likely a strong Piscean or Neptune influence in the natal chart) such as I have.

People who are well versed in various religions, think he spoke of being reborn in the figurative sense, but I don't think that way. Much of what he said was purposefully left out of the New Testament in favor of having a church proxy Emperor/Pope, be the new "authority" rather then one's own mind. Literally, this occurred at the Council of Nicea in Constantinople when the Christian church of the Romans first formed.



But then again, just IMO><


I suppose I'll always be comfortable enough with the idea of death, that I'll always include it in my astrology just as I would life as we know it to be.



It's the "unknowing" that people fear the most in my opinion.



(Realizing of course,everyone has their OWN opinion which another may not see as valid)



Interesting article from Psychology today:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ow-overcome-it


Religious belief increases our fear (but it’s complicated). Here’s another counterintuitive one. You may think that religious belief, which usually includes confidence in an afterlife or a greater meaning to life, would make people feel better about the finality of death. But studies have found that those with stronger religiosity, regardless of culture or religion, have a stronger fear of death. But it’s worth noting that there are also studies that show the opposite.
Some studies have found that, at least among Westerners, those who fear death most are moderately religious. Both non-believers and very religious people feared death less.
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Last edited by leomoon; 02-24-2022 at 03:27 PM.
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Unread 03-13-2022, 06:34 PM
AlterAntiscia AlterAntiscia is offline
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Re: Points of Trauma

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Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
I took down all of my posts that followed as I decided I want nothing more to do with such formulae, whether genuine or not, that allegedly provide knowledge about death and when it finds a human soul, as that is a horrible thing to be in possession of.
It takes away the joy of living and is damning for the dead.
Anything that interferes with free will can be troublesome and can create complications for an astrologer on so many levels. Ones' karma will definitely be affected for the worst.
My thanks to my clairvoyant friend, and spiritual confidante, Clarisse Conner, for allowing me some of Her time in assisting me in my deliberations over this and for providing the insight and guidence that she did... as always.
Good for you! If you canít handle it psychologically, I would suggest sticking to your initial method of using the parts! 
That way it will not take the joy of living away for you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by leomoon View Post
My philosophy is different then most. I feel when one is at peace with their soul, they see death as Jesus did, just another phase of the cycle of birth and rebirth. To be reborn, one has to die first. In our dream world, many of us forget which world we are actually in. (likely a strong Piscean or Neptune influence in the natal chart) such as I have.

People who are well versed in various religions, think he spoke of being reborn in the figurative sense, but I don't think that way. Much of what he said was purposefully left out of the New Testament in favor of having a church proxy Emperor/Pope, be the new "authority" rather then one's own mind. Literally, this occurred at the Council of Nicea in Constantinople when the Christian church of the Romans first formed.



But then again, just IMO><


I suppose I'll always be comfortable enough with the idea of death, that I'll always include it in my astrology just as I would life as we know it to be.



It's the "unknowing" that people fear the most in my opinion.



(Realizing of course,everyone has their OWN opinion which another may not see as valid)



Interesting article from Psychology today:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ow-overcome-it


Religious belief increases our fear (but itís complicated). Hereís another counterintuitive one. You may think that religious belief, which usually includes confidence in an afterlife or a greater meaning to life, would make people feel better about the finality of death. But studies have found that those with stronger religiosity, regardless of culture or religion, have a stronger fear of death. But itís worth noting that there are also studies that show the opposite.
Some studies have found that, at least among Westerners, those who fear death most are moderately religious. Both non-believers and very religious people feared death less.
That was a really interesting article! I appreciate you sharing it with us. Definitely something to ponder about

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha Bean View Post
It is so nice to find someone with my view. I refuse to predict events for this very reason.

If I tell you something will happen, and you believe me, then you will stop working for it to happen, and I have interfered with your growth. If I tell you something will not happen, and you believe me, then you may stop working for it, and it may have been the working for it that was more important than the actual happening.

I will predict areas around which you may be thinking or planning, or areas around which you might have positive or negative feelings. But you will only be able to more finely tune your actions in preparation for a possible event.

But the reality is that most people have issues in their natal or progressed chart that have to be addressed before they can take advantage of the potential. And predicting events with any certainty requires 4 measures of prediction, not just transits.
You are right, it doesnít always help to predict so accurately in todayís world. 
However you cannot deny that the ancients had a different way of looking at this and the tools they left behind produce some startling predictions and discoveries when used properly today. & unlike you, there are plenty of members on this forum who joined decades ago that do use the lots to predict death and other events accurately, though they will not post their opinions on this thread. To each their own I suppose
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Unread 03-13-2022, 11:25 PM
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Re: Points of Trauma

I don't use Astrological Parts for determining death either. I do list them in the list of compiled Astrological Parts as that is an obligation I am bound to as I stated cause to create the most complete listing and list All that I come across both verified and unverified. A fair sized number have been subsequently found to be inappropriately named, at least that is so a for natal chart analysis, although they might be appropriately so for mundane and, or, horary use.

Natal astrology analysis isn't effectively done with the tools of horary, and I don't practice horary, not to say that I haven't studied some of it, just that I don't, and won't, practice it.

I believe these points of yours originated from that field of use.

As for what I am capable of handling psychologically, don't underestimate me.

I've stood toe to toe with the Devil his self and exchanged blow for blow... and more than a couple of times. I am not writing rhetorically either.
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  #10  
Unread 05-01-2022, 02:25 AM
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Re: Points of Trauma

*2 points of death axis : ASC+8th Cusp-MA/SA and,
2 points of sudden trauma : ASC+8th Cusp-MA/UR*

We all have dramatic, traumatic and tragic events in our lives and we could find them on our natal charts to examine what they mean (the life phase or cycle, sabian symbols and certain signs a planet like Mars, Saturn or Uranus exalted).

1. My part of Death Axis for me is 0' (cusp Scorpio) and/or 16' Sagittarius.
and 2. part of sudden trauma is 0' Libra (cusp Virgo) halfway 360 degrees.

Sabian symbols for these 3 parts (1 for tragedy, 1 a trauma and 1 has drama):
0' sag - Retired veterans gather up to remembrance and bring up memories.
16' sag (cusp 6th)- An Easter/christmas sunrise draws up a huge or large crowd.
And 0' Lib - A butterfly preserved and made perfect with a dart through it.

17' scorpio-17' Sagittarius is in my 5th vs. 17' Virgo-17' Libra in my 3rd.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 05-02-2022, 07:11 PM
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Re: Points of Trauma

The first degree of Scorpio is highly malefic from what I've heard, studied and known about degrees, parts and relating to the nature of the signs and houses.

https://sabiansymbols.com/tag/scorpio-1/ (related to buses full of tourists?)
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Unread 05-02-2022, 08:39 PM
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Re: Points of Trauma

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
The first degree of Scorpio is highly malefic from what I've heard, studied and known about degrees, parts and relating to the nature of the signs and houses.

https://sabiansymbols.com/tag/scorpio-1/ (related to buses full of tourists?)

There was a recent tour bus accident with both local Egyptians and tourists from France that caught fire and most perished.
I don't know the time of the morning, it occurred, but usually, they leave before sunrise to be at the location because of the heat otherwise can be unbearable -
This is a photo of the recent accident (you can see how horrible it was, but I don't have any details on it) only on the prior one in 2010:


https://nypost.com/2022/04/13/10-kil...rash-in-egypt/



The previous crash of a tour bus similar going to the same location
was from speeding on a 2 way darkened road, around the same time I'm sure, was:
December 26, 2010 - 8 were killed others were injured including the tour bus driver
ASC 17į37' Sag is a critical degree in mutable signs with Uranus 26į51' cj. the IC



Because we had been there to see this magnificant ruins in 2004, via plane (you can get up very early and opt to go by plane instead of vehicle too), we did not go, but some others did who knew some of them and wrote about them here confirming the time.



The Great Temple at Abu Simbel, known for its four colossal statues, was built during the reign of Ramses II and was dedicated to the god Amun. It is considered one of the most beautiful ancient monuments in Egypt.

Road accidents are common in Egypt because of bad roads and poor enforcement of traffic rules, and crashes involving tour groups are not uncommon.

Last month,d (11/21/10) eight foreign tourists were killed when their tour bus lost control and flipped over several times on a winding mountain road near a resort on Egypt's Red Sea coast, while in October six Belgian tourists were killed in a crash in the south.



http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/1...bus-crash.html
1.9.2011 time of accident about 5:30AM
To fellow GCT travelers:
Yes, the bus accident was a GCT group. We were in the first bus with Amin, it was the second bus with Sami that, for unknown reason, drove into a parked dump truck full of sand. The impact sheared off the right side of the bus and killed the 8 people sitting on the right window side. Many of the injured slide under the seat in front of them or sailed over the top of seats.
Please, if you are traveling on a bus buckle up!! The buses had seat belts but no one used them until after the accident.
I wish GC would post a notice on how people are doing. 10 returned to finish the tour with us, 19 were hospitalized. Sam was seriously injured, as was the bus driver. When we left Jan 1st there were still 4 people in ICU.


13 miles outside of Aswan
December 26, 2010:
Sunday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12080022
Eight American tourists died and 21 were injured when their bus hit a stationary lorry in southern Egypt, say media and police.



The Egyptian driver and a guide were also injured in the accident.



Quote:
The governor of Aswan Province, Mustafa al Sayed, tells VOA that most of the injured were not seriously hurt. He confirmed that eight people were killed, and said the injured were being evacuated by air ambulance to Cairo. He said five passengers, who were not hurt, were sent on to a cruise boat waiting for them on the Nile River.

Egyptian Authorities provided the names of the injured tourists and indicated that six of the eight who died were women. An Egyptian doctor in Aswan said most of the patients were in stable condition. He said four of those who were seriously injured were operated on and doctors were working to set fractures and broken bones

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Unread 05-02-2022, 08:54 PM
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Re: Points of Trauma

From the Christmastime December 2010 26th crash - (2nd bus)

which is the chart I mentioned above -

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-12080022



Eight American tourists died and 21 were injured when their bus hit a stationary lorry in southern Egypt, say media and police.
It was very somber on the Nile Cruise because of the suitcases of those 8 passengers which never came back I was told Very sad too for those who worked on that cruise ship, both Coptic and Egyptians.



The crash happened early on Sunday as the bus was traveling from Aswan to the ancient temple site of Abu Simbel, Egyptian news agency Mena reported.


The bus driver and a tour guide were also hurt.



Entire side of bus missing…20 or more injured 8 dead
Uranus at the cusp of the 4th in the 3rd symbolizing short travel distance
Uranus is the accident. (within 3 degrees) perhaps If I adjusted the place/time we’d have within minutes



Note: The driver hit a lorry which had broken down, with sand in it. Was the driver half asleep, or just couldn't see on this dim (not lights), 2 lane highway, where they drive rather fast to beat the rising sun? The MC in Virgo was in the final 29th degree 57th? degree (I can't tell now) - and the Moon in the 9th hs. 7 Virgo



The P.O.F. in the 4th Opposite Saturn and square Mars in the end of the 1st hs. So many died then, but many lived too. the tour company may have filed bankruptcy then, and stopped going for some time, (from 2011 and then started going again, 10 years later)...perhaps re-organized)I'm not sure, they are twice as expensive now, at least then they once were. That was our last year with them 2011. They had all kinds of deals over there then, because of the Egyptian Revolution and this crash!They did bring the driver & tour bus opr over here I heard for some therapy.
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Last edited by leomoon; 05-02-2022 at 08:58 PM.
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