Does the Sun's ruler have any importance in the chart?
- Thread starter Astro7
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HoldOrFold
Well-known member
Good question. The 'ruler' of a planet is called it's 'dispositors' in western astrology. So if your Sun is in Aries, for instance, it's dispositor is Mars.
In Vedic astrology in particular, they assign a lot of importance to a planet's dispositor . A badly placed planet might otherwise be strong if it's dispositor is well placed, since the dispositor of a planet acts like it's foundation / support.
This also allows you to look for dynamics such as the "Mutual Reception", where a planet's dispositor links back to it. For instance, if your Sun is in Aries then it's dispositor is Mars. And if Mars is in Leo then it's dispositor is the Sun, so it links back to it and they continuously share energy and support. In this example, they're said to be in Mutual Reception.
Also, by looking at the dispositor of each planet in your chart, you can look at the roots and can gain further insight into the dynamics of your chart in this way. The root of a dispositor chain is called the "Final Dispositor ".
So for instance, if your Sun is in Aries, Mars is in Virgo and Mercury is in Gemini then your Final Dispositor for this chain is Mercury because the dispositor of the Sun is Mars and the depositor of Mars is Mercury and Mercury has no depositor because it's in it's own sign.
In my case, all my planets eventually link to Mars through following the dispositors down until you can't go any further. So Mars is the Final Depositor of my whole chart. For others, they may have several Final Depositors as roots in their chart or the chain may end with a Mutual Reception.
*ed* Here's a good article on dispositors https://web.archive.org/web/20050711160923/http://www.panplanet.com/library/dispositors.htm
In Vedic astrology in particular, they assign a lot of importance to a planet's dispositor . A badly placed planet might otherwise be strong if it's dispositor is well placed, since the dispositor of a planet acts like it's foundation / support.
This also allows you to look for dynamics such as the "Mutual Reception", where a planet's dispositor links back to it. For instance, if your Sun is in Aries then it's dispositor is Mars. And if Mars is in Leo then it's dispositor is the Sun, so it links back to it and they continuously share energy and support. In this example, they're said to be in Mutual Reception.
Also, by looking at the dispositor of each planet in your chart, you can look at the roots and can gain further insight into the dynamics of your chart in this way. The root of a dispositor chain is called the "Final Dispositor ".
So for instance, if your Sun is in Aries, Mars is in Virgo and Mercury is in Gemini then your Final Dispositor for this chain is Mercury because the dispositor of the Sun is Mars and the depositor of Mars is Mercury and Mercury has no depositor because it's in it's own sign.
In my case, all my planets eventually link to Mars through following the dispositors down until you can't go any further. So Mars is the Final Depositor of my whole chart. For others, they may have several Final Depositors as roots in their chart or the chain may end with a Mutual Reception.
*ed* Here's a good article on dispositors https://web.archive.org/web/20050711160923/http://www.panplanet.com/library/dispositors.htm
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
keep in mind that:
A PLANET acts
and
aspects between the PLANET and that planets ruler
influence that planet
so
the importance of the Suns ruler
regarding its influence on the Sun
is dependent on the aspects between the Suns ruler and the Sun
as well as on the natal condition of the Suns ruler
A HOUSE shows the area of life in which the planet acts
as well as
how strongly the planet can act
and
A SIGN shows the quality of the planet's expression.
so then
working from that idea
one can build on it
by i.e.
- selecting a natal planet
Locating which house the natal planet is in
Assessing how comfortable the natal planet is in that natal sign
Checking what the planet rules in the natal chart
Blacknight
Well-known member
There are also many charts that don't contain a final dispositor. Not sure what that means for the chart as a whole though.
HoldOrFold
Well-known member
That's right, actually most charts don't have a final dispositor, it's a fairly rare thing. Most charts will have one or a series of infinite loops, chains ended by mutual receptions or several chains ended by a sole dispositor.
The main thing is you're looking at the flow of energy in the chart and a lot can be gleamed by following the flow, looking at the roots in terms of dispositor relationship, sign and house placement and aspects.
A chart ruler's dispositor in aspect to the chart ruler, for instance, is a very powerful placement.
waybread
Well-known member
There are two ways to look at this: the planet ruling the sun's sign, and the planet ruling the sun's house. Both are important. They may be the same sign, but with your sun in Taurus ruled by Venus, and Aries ruled by Mars on the house cusp, I'd consider both.
Just to confuse matters, there are different house systems and the whole signs systems has houses that are coequal with the signs, so there's only one ruler to worry about.
Just to confuse matters, there are different house systems and the whole signs systems has houses that are coequal with the signs, so there's only one ruler to worry about.
mdinaz
Well-known member
In my opinion, not really. I think it just adds too many layers of additional muck and confusion into a reading. There's enough to look at. I'm more interested in the location of the Sun and the aspects to it, as well as the ASC. The sun can be negatively aspected but that one positive aspect can provide an outlet that drains off negative energy. I'd be more concerned with intercepted Suns and Suns with no positive aspects than what its ruler is doing. My two and half cents.
waybread
Well-known member
mdinaz, astrology is for panoramic thinkers. If people feel there's too much "muck", sure. Strip down a reading to what they see as the bare essentials. I've studied astrology long enough that my brain has gotten into a pattern of sorting out some (not all) details of the kind that might have overloaded it 20 years ago.
But the concepts of sign and house rulers have been with us since Hellenistic astrology-- they're nothing new. They made a huge difference in my ability to read charts.
Karen Hamaker-Zondag, The House Connection, she says, "The House over which a planet rules serves the purposes of the house in which that planet stands." If someone wants to know about their money yet the second house is untenanted, considering the house cusp ruler is really helpful.
Demetra George, Astrology and the Authentic Self (a mod/trad hybrid) suggests that we look at the house cusp ruler like a person who wants to help out the affairs of its house. Whether it can do so powerfully or poorly depends upon its own situation.
I agree that aspects to the sun are extremely important. My sun is opposed by Pluto and Saturn but trine Uranus. To me, Uranus is one of the good guys.
mdinaz
Well-known member
About the only time I use a house ruler is when the house is unoccupied or there is an unaspected planet in that house. Otherwise I find the direct aspects to the planets within more important than the planet that rules the house. I look at this way - Jim and Debbie are a spiritual couple, but Debbie prefers going to her local church while Jim would rather go hiking and commune with nature. Does it really matter what their landlord thinks about it? In this case, no. In another case, Jim lives alone in an apartment, and would like to buy a new car, but he's now unemployed. Does it matter what his landlord thinks about this? In this case, yeah. He wants rent money and Jim has no job and is about to blow money on a new car.
Rather than astrology being for "panoramic" thinkers, I think it is for psychic thinkers. When I see a chart, I just know right where to go. I don't go through a list of 20 rules of "do this and that" to analyze a chart. My intuition tells me where to go and I follow the most important things that catch my eye and quite often I see areas many people miss because they're too busy following the rules. Most often I completely ignore those areas that aren't truly important to that particular incarnation. So the Sun rules a certain empty house. Is it relevant to this particular chart? Does knowing this advance the client's knowledge of their self? If no, ignore it and move on. But that works for me. Your mileage may vary.
HoldOrFold
Well-known member
I know for me at least, my final dispositor is one of the most powerful influences in my chart. I previously mentioned it was Mars since I was ignoring the outer planets for the example, but if you include the outer planets my final dispositor is actually Pluto since it disposes Mars.
Apart from my chart ruler, the Sun, being in the 8th house and 3 planets in Scorpio, I couldn't figure out why Pluto seemed so prominent in my psyche and life events as it is in the 3rd house and only forms one aspect which is to Mercury. I had to look under the surface and initially discovered that Pluto forms parallel aspects to my Sun and Venus... however it wasn't until I found it was my final dispositor that it was given enough due weight to match it's actual concrete influence in my life.
I'm currently reading "Rulers of the Horoscope: Finding Your Way Through the Labyrinth" by Alan Oken, it's a great read on this topic.
Apart from my chart ruler, the Sun, being in the 8th house and 3 planets in Scorpio, I couldn't figure out why Pluto seemed so prominent in my psyche and life events as it is in the 3rd house and only forms one aspect which is to Mercury. I had to look under the surface and initially discovered that Pluto forms parallel aspects to my Sun and Venus... however it wasn't until I found it was my final dispositor that it was given enough due weight to match it's actual concrete influence in my life.
I'm currently reading "Rulers of the Horoscope: Finding Your Way Through the Labyrinth" by Alan Oken, it's a great read on this topic.
IleneK
Premium Member
It does. Its condition, along with the Sun's condition, aspects and so on, will affect the expression of the Sun in a native's chart.
My niece has the Sun , Moon and Mars in Taurus in the 2nd. Looking at just that we would expect she had a nice comfy home and lots of stability.
She has Venus, dispositor of both Sun and Moon, Stationary Direct ,in the first house in Aries. She is on a constant adventure and has not had much time ever in one place. She went to Europe after graduating college with a degree in International Relations. And she took an internship with an embassy in Japan. And she has not lived back in the states, nor any one place at all, for very long. She works somewhere, saves money then quits and goes to her next adventure on another continent.
She told me that 'home is where the heart is' and she keeps close contact with her parents by skyping and videos and nice letters and pictures. And her boyfriend runs a travel agency so she won't be home any time soon.
I imagine the Jupiter in Aquarius in the 11th has something to do with her wanderlust. But if the ruler of that grouping in Taurus, was also in that 2nd with them, I wonder if she would be living in Ghana right now working with a 'clean water' organization.
She has Venus, dispositor of both Sun and Moon, Stationary Direct ,in the first house in Aries. She is on a constant adventure and has not had much time ever in one place. She went to Europe after graduating college with a degree in International Relations. And she took an internship with an embassy in Japan. And she has not lived back in the states, nor any one place at all, for very long. She works somewhere, saves money then quits and goes to her next adventure on another continent.
She told me that 'home is where the heart is' and she keeps close contact with her parents by skyping and videos and nice letters and pictures. And her boyfriend runs a travel agency so she won't be home any time soon.
I imagine the Jupiter in Aquarius in the 11th has something to do with her wanderlust. But if the ruler of that grouping in Taurus, was also in that 2nd with them, I wonder if she would be living in Ghana right now working with a 'clean water' organization.
waybread
Well-known member
mdinaz, I don't find "landlord" in our modern sense to be an apt analogy. Given the historical longevity of house and sign rulers (like nearly 2000 years,) I tend to think of them more as the ancient and medieval lords who had authority over their tenants' lives. Including whether or not they could marry or leave the estate.
How nice to be psychic. Lucky you. The rest of us ordinary mortals have to work through a kind of protocol or diagnostic that does allow us to manage multiple data bytes without calling them "muck."
If someone wants to know about her money and the 2nd and 8th houses are untenanted, working with house cusp rulers is really helpful.
How nice to be psychic. Lucky you. The rest of us ordinary mortals have to work through a kind of protocol or diagnostic that does allow us to manage multiple data bytes without calling them "muck."
If someone wants to know about her money and the 2nd and 8th houses are untenanted, working with house cusp rulers is really helpful.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
JULIUS FIRMICUS MATERNUS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Firmicus_Maternus
says:
copyright expired LIBER SECUNDUS
QUOTE
"........7. Note also what planet is located in the house or the terms of which particular planet and
if your planet is located in the house of another
look at the ruler of that house to see which house of the chart it is in,
whether it is on the first cardinal point of the chart or in the second house or in a passive house
and inquire into its exaltation and fall, as well as into the sign in which it rejoices
and in which it is dejected.
8. For if the ruler of the sign is well located
that planet about which we are inquiring also shares in a part of the good fortune of the host's joy.
But if the ruler of the sign is dejected in any way
that planet about which we are inquiring, even though placed in a fortunate house,
will be hindered by the dejection of that other planet which is the ruler of the sign.
9. This also you can easily observe from human behavior.
If you enter anyone's home by invitation
and the master of the house has just been blessed with an increase in good fortune,
you too become a participant in his good fortune,
for you share in the happiness of the good fortune of your host.
But if the host is suffering from miserable poverty
and is embroiled in the wretched accidents of misfortune,
you make yourself also a partner in his grief and trouble
and the adversity in which you share overwhelms you too.
10. This is also true of the planets who are rulers of the signs........"