Part of Reincarnation?

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
The part i am referring to is Asc + Saturn - Jupiter. Would anyone like to share their experiences with this part?

It is a bit of an ominous principle, (i attained the keyword "reincarnation" from ptv's thread 'astrological parts known and unkown') but can anyone see this fitting into their life?

Here's mine. taken from dane rudhyar's astrological mandala:

Asc+ Saturn - Jupiter: Gemini 22.14

GEMINI 23°):​
THREE FLEDGLINGS IN A NEST HIGH IN A TREE.
KEYNOTE:
The growth of spiritually creative processes in an at least relatively integrated mind.

In traditional symbolism birds usually refer to spiritual forces, or at least to the higher and freer aspects of the mind. Here we see only the very beginning of a process in what we might also call "the upper chamber" of the consciousness where the creative power of the spirit can be received and assimilated. Fecundated by the spirit and supported by a deeply rooted cultural and vitalistic tradition, man can gradually develop an integral personality. It is essentially three-fold, reflecting the Divine Trinity, in India expressed as Sat-Chit-Ananda.​
This is the third stage of a process which should lead to a deeper and more natural understanding of human existence. It suggests that the ambitious mass protests of aroused and largely blind desires should be transmuted through harmonization with natural drives and in terms of spontaneous responses attuned to the phases of natural evolution. Stressed here is CREATIVE INTEGRATION.
 

CruxAnsata

Active member
My part is:

PHASE 332 (PISCES 2°): A SQUIRREL HIDING FROM HUNTERS.
KEYNOTE: The individual's need both to ensure his future subsistence and to protect himself from aggressive social elements.
The squirrel not only has to hide and store food for the winter, but to be on the lockout for the dangers involved in gathering this food supply. Social processes always cast strong shadows, The individual is never certain of being safe among his fellowmen, once the process of individualization — with its negative aspects, competition, social aggressivity and greed — forces the breakdown of the organic tribal state of mankind during the archaic ages.
This second stage symbol contrasts with the first. It warns of the dangers of life in society during an era of exacerbated individualism, when violence is a possibility never to be dismissed. The need for SELF-PROTECTION and caution is ever present.
 

CruxAnsata

Active member
I remember ptv had a post about this symbol, but I was a bit lost in his interpretation I am going to go find that thread and re-read it
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Hi Crux, thanks for posting your symbol. Do you find it fits at all? Would you say this symbol has any "karmic" meaning to you? Is this the purpose of your reincarnation? Or some result of a previous carnation?

I think your symbol is talking about attaining protection in a society that is individually oriented. A need to steer away from the more agressive and lewd social acts.

It seems to imply a cautious approach to life.
 

CruxAnsata

Active member
Hi Crux, thanks for posting your symbol. Do you find it fits at all? Would you say this symbol has any "karmic" meaning to you? Is this the purpose of your reincarnation? Or some result of a previous carnation?

I think your symbol is talking about attaining protection in a society that is individually oriented. A need to steer away from the more agressive and lewd social acts.

It seems to imply a cautious approach to life.

The symbol sounds very violent don't it lol. I can't say I have noticed anything karmic about the symbol. It's very hard to hold a mirror to your life and understand each detail of it.
 

JenniferThiesing

Well-known member
This is very interesting. Can you tell me how you get there? My asc is 29 deg scorpio, saturn 13 deg aquarius, and jupiter 9 deg libra . Im really curious :)
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
This is very interesting. Can you tell me how you get there? My asc is 29 deg scorpio, saturn 13 deg aquarius, and jupiter 9 deg libra . Im really curious :)

it's roughly 3 aries but i would need to know the minutes of those degrees to find the exact symbolism for you.

here's the parts calculator: (it doesn't matter if you choose anything from the upper dropbox, just put the ascendant in the first box, saturn in second, and jupiter in third box and it will calculate for you.)
http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/

and the sabian symbolism for each degree:

(since it goes from 1-30 rather than 0-29 always
read the symbolism for the NEXT symbol. for instance 0.23 aries would be the symbol for 1 aries)

http://mindfire.ca/The%20Sabian%20Symbols/An%20Astrological%20Mandala%20-%20Contents.htm
 
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Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
ahh, sorry, forgot about this thread! I know the sites been down so here is the symbol for aries 4:
TWO LOVERS STROLLING ON A SECLUDED WALK.​
KEYNOTE: The progressive polarization of energies needed for fulfilling one's life function.

In order to respond fully to the potentialities released by a sense of identification with a greater Whole, the human being should be himself whole. An interplay of bipolar energies is needed to provide a sustained and dynamic "resonance" to any superior and encompassing form of life. This may imply a temporary withdrawal from routine activity, i.e. a "secluded" process. It is not, however, a closed process. The positive and negative polarities do not meet in a closed circuit, reconstituting a neutral state of potentiality. They operate in dynamic, open, unresolved togetherness in contact with the surrounding energies of nature.
This symbol characterizes the fourth stage of the first five-fold sequence of phases: the stage of dynamic and unresolved POLARIZATION. It introduces the basic means - one might say, the technique - to establish consciousness in the world of duality.​

interesting.. seems to imply a secluded life lead by the emergence of the duality within the psyche... a need for fulfillment... the blending of masculine and feminine... might even imply a life that will give a great love...

 

Zarathu

Account Closed
My astrology program: Haloran AstrolDeluxe 7 has that part listed as the part of Life. The book The Fortunes of Astrology by Robert Hurzt Granite also lists it as " Life", but attributes "P. Grell" to calling it the part of Reincarnation. It is attributed as a Part of the FIRST HOUSE and changes during night.

Its conjuncts the asteroid Aesculapius which is an asteroid of healing, in my natal chart.
 
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Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Thanks for the info, Zarathu. Maybe the title reincarnation can be interchangable with the title life.. as they both show what the person is dealt in this lifetime..


That is interesting about the healing asteroid conjunct that part for you. Could you make any recommendations on a comprehensive record of the asteroids and their meanings? A book or website... i've found a few sites before but there are SOOO many of them... they definitely add yet another layer to dissect..


Is there a way to find out what asteroids are conjunct points in a given chart... aside from going through each one? I'm sure there is a program that can do this.. at least, their should be..
 

Zarathu

Account Closed
Is there a way to find out what asteroids are conjunct points in a given chart... aside from going through each one? I'm sure there is a program that can do this.. at least, their should be..

Both of the two astrology programs I own(Haloran AstrolDeluxe 7, and Solar Fire Gold 7) do this.

I would say that all of the stand alone astrology programs that can give Arabic parts do this. In both of them, I can add as many parts as I wish. In Haloran, my main program, I have more than 250 parts listed, and can see instantly what they aspect or conjunct.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
My astrology program: Haloran AstrolDeluxe 7 has that part listed as the part of Life. The book The Fortunes of Astrology by Robert Hurzt Granite also lists it as " Life", but attributes "P. Grell" to calling it the part of Reincarnation. It is attributed as a Part of the FIRST HOUSE and changes during night.

Its conjuncts the asteroid Aesculapius which is an asteroid of healing, in my natal chart.

So? What's the difference?:lol::wink:

...and it's not just my humble opinion, but also the opinion of many...that you do not change a Parts formula regardless of whether it is day or night.
 

Paul_

Account Closed
So? What's the difference?:lol::wink:

...and it's not just my humble opinion, but also the opinion of many...that you do not change a Parts formula regardless of whether it is day or night.

What rationale do you employ to reach that conclusion?

It is the opinion of many, of course, that you do reverse it, but I'm curious why you choose not to? Any particular reason?
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
PV, I've been contemplating the two formula that utilize Saturn and Jupiter for both the 'Significator' and the 'Trigger'.

If you've read the recent thread I've started in the research and development sub forum titled, "Parts Unknown", maybe you can understand as to what I'm getting at here.

With Saturn as the 'Trigger', at the moment it seems to me that would be indicative of a Part of Re-incarnation

ALSO of MAJOR NOTE... is that my original calculation for the Part of Re-incarnation, as it is listed in the list of parts derived from the chart I have belief is the chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, was wrong. As it should have been listed as being in the 25th degree of Aries.

...and although I have that feeling as to the Formula for a Part of Reincarnation being that of the other, the rectification of my error has now produced, imho, appropriate symbology for said Part as to what we know, or believe to know, about the Man from Naz.
...as the other Part that is produced is listed as being that of "Brethren", and as such doesn't seem to "fit the profile" {late edit: By that I meant the nature of the title of the part, not the Man. ...I am terrible at at times, most times, at trying to express myself.}, so to speak.

...and just now it dawned on me that the formula that places Jupiter in the 'Trigger" position would seem to indicate what may be cause for having to re-incarnate. this is because I see it as that which one might incur karmic debt as to having to reincarnate, yet again, after this present sojourn.

Kind of like .... Part of Karmic Debt Paid & a Part of Karmic Debt Incurred... possibly?

The entry has been corrected as of this morning
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I'll also post here the correct Sabian Symbol for this, alleged, Part of Re-incarnation derived from that chart I believe to be that of the "Man from Nazareth", the 25th degree of Aries.

From Dane Rudhyar's book, "An Astrological Mandala"

"THE POSSIBILITY FOR MAN TO GAIN EXPERIENCE AT TWO LEVELS OF BEING.

KEYNOTE: The revelation of new potentialities.


In some unspecified way the symbol is a guarantee that man can operate successfully at two levels of consciousness, if he has previously met the condition mentioned in the preceding symbol. 'Be open. Be able and willing to shape your translucent mind in the form revealing spiritual fulfillment. And you will be able to experience life and power on inner as well as outer planes.' The implied message is one of faith. Man can only truly experience what he deeply believes he can experience.

This is the last stage of this fifth five-fold sequence of cyclic phases. It announces the possibility of a new step in evolution, but it is still only a possibility, a promise. The individual is truly ON PROBATION."

Now it makes sense!

... those "Two Levels of Being", that; as the man Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth ...and as a man now One with the Christ... as the few sects of Gnostic Christianity, Edgar Cayce, and the Illumined Souls of the Yogis sufficiently advanced in the understanding of Vedic Knowledge, all knew and understood, or presently know and understand.
 
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BobZemco

Well-known member
Maybe the title reincarnation can be interchangable with the title life.. as they both show what the person is dealt in this lifetime.

No, ASC + Saturn - Jupiter is the Lot of Life.

It's location in the chart by Sign and House, and the location of its Dispositor will allow you to judge the length of the Native's life, soundness of body and its sustenance, as it relates to Culture, Race and Ethnic Group.

So? What's the difference?:lol::wink:

...and it's not just my humble opinion, but also the opinion of many...that you do not change a Parts formula regardless of whether it is day or night.

it's already been proven that the formulas do change, although not necessarily for all Lots.

When you change a formula you are changing the nature of what is produced.

No, you are not. For those Lots that employ the Lights, you are accounting for Sect when you reverse the Lot.

Day Lot of Fortune: ASC + Moon - Sun
Night Lot of Fortune: ASC + Sun - Moon

Sun is the Sect Light during the Day, but Moon is Sect Light during the Night.

It would be no different if you asked Einstein to change E = MCsquared to E = CMsquared because it was night when all was created or because it was light the same moment all was created.

[deleted attacking comments - Moderator]

By reversing the formula, the only thing we're doing is taking this...

E = m * c^2

...and changing it to this....

E / m = c^2

...or to this...

E / c^2 = m

...which is nothing more than a restatement of the same formula.

...and I put the question forth to my trusty, dependable friend, clairvoyant and spiritual confidante, Clarisse Conner... she said the same thing....

I do not find that even remotely persuasive. You'll have to come up with a better explanation than that.
 
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Lion o ness

Well-known member
I checked mine out of interest.

I have POR at 23 Virgo
Is conjunct vertex and psyche..


The sabian for 24 Virgo

Virgo 24. Mary and her white lamb. Keywords: a good heart and pure soul, honesty, peace, friendship, an innocent person, faith.
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
I checked mine out of interest.

I have POR at 23 Virgo
Is conjunct vertex and psyche..


The sabian for 24 Virgo

Virgo 24. Mary and her white lamb. Keywords: a good heart and pure soul, honesty, peace, friendship, an innocent person, faith.

well you do have a sweet little angel in your sig... :)
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Lion O Ness & others who are interested, ptv in his awesome sleuthing has came to a proposal which I am finding to be rather convincing so far, looking at a few charts..

asc + jup - sat: previous carnation/ karma incurred

asc + sat - jup: current incarnation/ karma paid

try it on your charts and see :)

here is mine for previous incarnation from Dane Rudhyars "An Astrological Mandala":

PISCES 11°): MEN TRAVELING A NARROW PATH, SEEKING ILLUMINATION. KEYNOTE: The capacity inherent in every individual to seek at whatever cost entrance to a transcendent realm of reality. This refers to the ancient and eternal symbol of the Path of Discipleship. The greatness of man is that he can always be greater; and the belief — deeply rooted in men's inner nature — that if he fulfills the necessary conditions he can find "Elder Brothers" who have already attained a higher level of consciousness and will transfer their attainment and light to him. The Path is always open to the pure in heart, the mentally aware, the conqueror of emotions and the spiritually self-mobilized. This symbol opens the sixty-ninth five-fold sequence and a new level of consciousness. Man is always in the making and remaking. He can always go further, reach beyond. But he has to take the first step. Someone can show him the Path, but he alone can do the walking. Thus the Zen injunction: WALK ON.
 
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