I Hate My Birth Chart!!!!

Spideynyc said:

So I guess what you’re saying is despite my signs my aspects kinda make up for it, which brings me to my Next question do aspects matter what sign they’re in like would a water mercury trine mars in be as efficient in water signs instead of air? I know about aspects but I know some people consider certain aspects to be weaker in certain signs, for example I’ve had people tell me the water in my chart softens my aries.

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Some questions.

Who are the people that tell you water "softens" your Aries?

What is meant by "soften"?

What is the source of that claim? (Authors, chart practice, memeplex)

Do you take them at their word? If so, why?

Do you actually have the traits that these individuals describe? If so, are they dominant traits in your personality?

What is the minimum amount of water influence needed to make a chart "watery" and hence liable to be "softened"? Is it the Sun in a water sign? 2 personal planets? 3? A grand trine? A stellium? The ascendant? What?

What I'm saying is not that your aspects "kinda" make up for supposed "water weakness". I'm questioning whether what is stated to be "water characteristics" is really so, or if there is any actual basis to what you've heard.

Since you haven't really defined exactly what you meant regarding waters ability to soften, I've read between the lines and have come up with a general idea of what I think you mean. In light of that, here are example charts (of real people who you can verify) that can be described as "watery" according to modern astrological standard. Based on these individuals, can you say that they lacked for the kind of efficiency and "hardiness" that the water possessed can't possibly attain?

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Heydrich,_Reinhard
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Washington,_George
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramirez,_Ricardo
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Casanova,_Giacomo
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Patton,_George
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramsay,_Gordon
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gacy,_John_Wayne
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lee,_Bruce

Here are other examples, which one might describe as the more soft outflow of a water dominant. However, these two examples are/were at the Pinnacle of their field. To attain an elite level of any human endeavor takes certain traits - and the weak tend not to ever get anywhere near the top. Grit, passion, patience, ceaseless energy, will, political savvy, a thick skin.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kudaibergen,_Dimash
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pope_Benedict_XVI

A pope and a singer. Do you think they lack for drive, efficiency or female attention? (Whether or not they can partake or even want to being another matter).

A major argument that some subscribe to is that the aspects take primacy over sign placement, since the positions of the planets remain constant no matter what zodiac is used. In fact, some branches of astrology dispense with signs altogether.

Something to mull over.

Bunraku said:

How does it feel like having a water grand trine?

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Well one thing I noticed is that people like to tell me their deepest secrets even if they barely know me, it’s like I can meet someone and they’ll immediately dump their emotional problems on me I think it’s the scorpio moon but maybe it’s all the water signs combined that makes them feel like I can take it.

We all have things in our chart which we dislike.

I have Saturn squaring majority of my planets. Said planets for the most part lie in the 7th house which means I am entirely helpless to others to provide those energies for me. The Saturn squares mean that the energies come to me in extremely negative ways leading to loneliness, abuse, etc.

Yet, I take it that’s how my chart is, and I’m extremely grateful that it helps me learn about myself. I am able to now channel this understanding in a positive way to improve my life and control myself better, which then improves my relationships with other people.

Spideynyc said:

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I’m getting a strong Melancholic temperament from this chart with a subset of Sanguine. Melancholic tends to be pensive, reserved and concentrated, and the mixture of sanguine helps you to be versatile and adaptable and communicative to an extent. Saturn aspects to the Moon can further your melancholic nature, meaning there will be bouts of pessimism and isolation. I feel like Mars also adds periods of irritability and aggression.

The almuten (ruler) of the chart is Saturn, which adds to it. Saturn is the planet of austerity, and in the 1st house of the personality indicates the need to distinguish oneself.

The almutens of your Mercury and Moon, the rational and irrational mind, are Mars. Mars dominates your mode of thinking and processing. Mars can make you stubborn and headstrong, at worst argumentative and easily angered.

I’m seeing a Saturn and Mars dominance in this chart.

Do you discount the phlegmatic component in the chart?

conspiracy theorist said:

Do you discount the phlegmatic component in the chart?

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I calculated it with the planets to see which one was most dominant.
Saturn (and its aspect to the Moon, and the phase of the Moon, and Mercury was what won it over. And I took precedence with the almuten.

I didn’t want to get into everything, and overwhelm them, like what you’re doing

What temperament are you getting from it?

Bunraku said:

I calculated it with the planets to see which one was most dominant.
Saturn (and its aspect to the Moon, and the phase of the Moon, and Mercury was what won it over. And I took precedence with the almuten.

I didn’t want to get into everything, and overwhelm them, like what you’re doing

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I just wanted to know where he got his information from...

conspiracy theorist said:

I just wanted to know where he got his information from...

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I had a dream about you last night. It was really bizarre. You were blind in the literal sense.

Also Venus trine Taurus, or whatever.

What method are you using? I'm just using quick and dirty heuristics based on Dorian Greenbaum's temperament template.

I see how you got melancholic/sanguine. (Saturn conj. asc, Saturn ruling ascendant, moon phase for melancholic/Element of sign on the ascendant and seasonal phase of sun for sanguine?)

I also factored in element of Moon and element of its house ruler - so water/water or a heavier component of phlegmatic. Saturn being more "accidental" made me not factor into the temperament more readily, but maybe I should.

Bunraku said:

I had a dream about you last night. It was really bizarre. You were blind in the literal sense.

Also Venus trine Taurus, or whatever.

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That sounds hella interesting. Me being blind? How'd that affect things? I, on the other hand, haven't had a dream of much consequence for a few months now.

Would you happen to have a eCopy of Greenbaum’s book, or is it something I’d have to thrift for on AbeBooks or eBay? Or if it isn’t too much trouble, walk me through that quick method you used? I can return the favor.

I’m using the method created in On the Heavenly Spheres

Pluto conjunct Cancer

You had to use your hands to know things. The room was a very fancy hotel type thing with a lot of red, earthy, and gray marble color schemes. It seemed like a place where businessmen gathered.

I also had dreams of faces I haven’t seen, and they were really vivid. Like this 8 foot tall guy I had to look up and strain my neck WTF?

Neptune Rising in Cancer 4th house

You know I've never actually had access to that book before? Would've liked to though. There are no free PDFs of the full book online - naturally I suppose since the author is very much alive and probably very interested in safeguarding her intellectual property.

Here's an excerpt on skyscript. Scroll down to the example chart on George W. Bush. There is a table providing all the criteria that is used to determine temperament. Very "add'em up" a la Medieval and Arabic astrology.

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/temperament.html

Bunraku said:

Pluto conjunct Cancer

You had to use your hands to know things. The room was a very fancy hotel type thing with a lot of red, earthy, and gray marble color schemes. It seemed like a place where businessmen gathered.

I also had dreams of faces I haven’t seen, and they were really vivid. Like this 8 foot tall guy I had to look up and strain my neck WTF?

Neptune Rising in Cancer 4th house

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Man... I miss having trippy dreams like that. Maybe I should start meditating again.

Interesting that I also have blind indications in my chart (Antares prominent, nebulae stuff). Oh yeah, and ascendant conjunct the 5th house.

Also did my messages ever send? I was on mobile, and mobile is very buggy.

Here’s my note on the chart:
Ascendant, Ruler, and Moon are paid attention to to see which one has more emphasis

Bunraku said:

I’m getting a strong Melancholic temperament from this chart with a subset of Sanguine. Melancholic tends to be pensive, reserved and concentrated, and the mixture of sanguine helps you to be versatile and adaptable and communicative to an extent. Saturn aspects to the Moon can further your melancholic nature, meaning there will be bouts of pessimism and isolation. I feel like Mars also adds periods of irritability and aggression.

The almuten (ruler) of the chart is Saturn, which adds to it. Saturn is the planet of austerity, and in the 1st house of the personality indicates the need to distinguish oneself.

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You know this is interesting since I’ve always been a glass half full kinda guy lol And I usually try to see the positive side of things although I’m very outspoken which is why people are usually shocked when they find out my mercury is in pisces and Isn’t my saturn in the 12th house? but I do let my emotions get the best of me at times the thing about me is even though I get angry easily it never really lasts long so my anger is much like a earthquake brief but a lot of destruction left behind, from what I understand is that my moon trine mars in mutual reception allows me to use my emotions to take action. The Isolation is something I’m working on lol

Bunraku said:

Also did my messages ever send? I was on mobile, and mobile is very buggy.

Here’s my note on the chart:

Code:

Here’s my note on the chart: 

Rising sign: Aquarius: Sanguine 
Ruler: Saturn: Melancholic 
Qualities of the planets in the house: Melancholic, Sanguine 
Aspects the ASC: Melancholic, Phlegmatic
Moons phase: Melancholic 
Moons sign Phlegmatic 
Aspects to the Moon: Choleric, Melancholic, Melancholic, 
Signs of the Aspects to the Moon, Phlegmatic, Phlegmatic, Sanguine, 
Season/Sun: Sanguine 
Almuten: Melancholic, Sanguine

Sanguine 11111
Melancholic 1111111
Phlegmatic 1111
Cho

Ascendant, Ruler, and Moon are paid attention to to see which one has more emphasis

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As a counterpoint to your breakdown, here's the temperament according to Greenbaum's method.

Birth season: Sanguine (2)
Asc sign: Sanguine (2)
Asc ruler: Sanguine (1)
Asc Almuten: Melancholic (1)
Moon sign: Phlegmatic (2)
Moon phase: Melancholic (1)
Sign of moon ruler: Phlegmatic (1)

This would suggest that the temperament is actually sanguine/phlegmatic, according to Greenbaum. Notice that aspects aren't factored into this account.

conspiracy theorist said:

As a counterpoint to your breakdown, here's the temperament according to Greenbaum's method.

Birth season: Sanguine (2)
Asc sign: Sanguine (2)
Asc ruler: Sanguine (1)
Asc Almuten: Melancholic (1)
Moon sign: Phlegmatic (2)
Moon phase: Melancholic (1)
Sign of moon ruler: Phlegmatic (1)

This would suggest that the temperament is actually sanguine/phlegmatic, according to Greenbaum. Notice that aspects aren't factored into this account.

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So I’m optomistic and self controlled instead of being pessimistic and reserved?