A calling question, and MR.

Hi barbh,

1. Yes and
2. Yes.

I would caution against stepping into the realm of 'overanalysis paralysis' here. The Sun receives Venus by aspect. That means he is open to you. He receives you by face. This is not the same level as infatuation, but it is interest, nonetheless. You both have accidental dignity by being angular. That makes it more likely to be brought to bear. This is a chart for a phone call or some sort of communication, not a delineation of the next ten years of your lives together. Remember, we are talking about 'animal nature', and not anything more profound.

AG

It is rather easy to get ahead of myself!
Thanks for all that
We shall see what transpires and continue on from there...
thanks again
barb

Hello ladies, I am out of bed.
I have been reading over all that was written by us. It strikes me that we are talking more about Venus than about the Moon, as if Venus has totally taken over the role of the Quisitor (you Barb). I am always a bit careful doing this, because then the books surely would mention that you always must take Venus as the significator of the female querent.
So when Venus is in Aries in this chart, I think it is more about the chemical attraction between you two than about personal attraction. Now, we have seen that Venus exalts the Sun, so you are besotted (nice word) by him.
He thinks he is great sexually (that's how I see it), but when push comes to shove, the ruler of his animal side, Mars, is in fall and in the 12th!! So again, as I mentioned before, I think that he maybe finds himself a stud, but in reality, he is not that much of a superman and maybe even a bit insecure and anguished (Saturn retro in his 8th house!).

I agree that he could call you when lets say Saturn will go direct again and then conjuncts your 3rd house. I think that waiting for him to sextile your Ascendant will take a bit too long unless we do not look in the ephemeries for that to happen, but take symbolic time. He will be in a cadent house, fast, Northern hemisphere, also fast, and in a common sign, so that comes to roughly 23.5 days. This co-incides with the 25 minutes. Very close anyways.

Must run and will look more into this later. Very good for analysis this chart.
Cheers, Star.

Good morning Star!

He thinks he is great sexually (that's how I see it), but when push comes to shove, the ruler of his animal side, Mars, is in fall and in the 12th!! So again, as I mentioned before, I think that he maybe finds himself a stud, but in reality, he is not that much of a superman and maybe even a bit insecure and anguished (Saturn retro in his 8th house!).

Click to expand...

LOL. You're awesome! In fact, I would think you're probably right. He even mentioned something about being really good at 'certain things'. He wants to be a stud I think, but he's not a big guy physically, quite slight really..an airy build.... and in other ways too I'm sure, if you know what I mean. Men can feel rather insecure about that kind of thing.
I'm most curious to hear what is hesitancy with me is really about. Money maybe, as AG suggested, or something to do with his divorce settlement. I'm going to broach this subject with him when we do speak. Enough with all the secrecy. And yes, the chemical attraction is overpowering. I can see it and feel it in him too though. He's right there with me, although it's not as strong for him in the chart, but that could be due to some other distracting factor...like whatever is making him hesitant or delayed. We shall find out soon......
I'm watchful for 12 days from now (that would be just under 1/3 of a degree)
and for 25 days from now.
It's exciting to see how the timing will play out
thanks again
barb

Hi Barb, thanks for your reply. I was using the Sabian Symbols in another post and it could explain a bit what the person went through etc. Let me see what the symbol is for him here. So he is Saturn at 2° Virgo (1°.55=2°).
The Sabian Symbol for this degree is:

A large white cross, dominationg thelandscape, stands alone on top of a high hill

The Commentary says:
This is a symbol of suffering and loss and he hope of faith and salvation. Symbols such as the "Cross" have long had a deep, meaningful and powerful influence. That the "Cross" is "standing Alone" depicts a sense of desertion, perhaps of one's faith or life circumstances. This can bring a sense of isolation. The idea or belief, that suffering and giving up one's personal desires as a means to salvation has special significance for many people, but what does it really mean? People need symbols of faith to rally around and inspire them.

Keywords: Religious ideals dominating! The fear or the wonder of God. Being alone and forgotten. Monuments to pain and suffering. Tributes to or memories of those lost or gone before.

the Caution: Aloneness and /or sacrifice or the yearning for it.
Religion dictating against one's desires or needs!! (could this be the reason for his hesitation???)
Symbols that inspire guilt and anguish instead of love, acceptance and forgiveness.

There is more, but I dont feel it means anything in the context of this chart.

As it is a lot about religion, could he be very religious and look upon a sexual fling as something forbidden maybe? As Saturn is in the 2nd, his values, maybe it has to do with what he was brought up with, his values and if he was up very religiously, then maybe that could be the reason. Ask him if he is religious, I am curious.

Cheers, Star.

Good point about the Sabian Symbols Star.

This is indeed an interesting one.

I did ask him about religion and spirituality right when I first met him, and he said not at all.

I do understand the significance of this sabian symbol for him though.
He is indeed going through suffering and loss after having just separated from his wife of many years. I'm sure he feels a lot of guilt with the kids of course, and there is hurt from the relationship, although I don't know exactly why they separated, only that he said it had been coming 'for a long time.' This would explain the isolation as well.
It actually makes a lot of sense to me. There is still some pain, grief even perhaps, that maybe he hasn't completely gotten through yet? Maybe he's wondering if they'll get back together?? I doubt it, but you never know. That could explain the hesitation. It has a connotation of suffering, or of being a scapegoat. Maybe he feels guilty about it? Something along those lines?

Yep, that symbol explains it well I think.
Nothing about money though..., unless he feels he needs to sacrifice all he has for her and the kids. Actually, he sort of does, since there is the whole division of assets thing, and she's in the house....etc.

thanks for reminding of the sabian symbols Star!
barb

I remain ever intrigued by your love life, Barb. Keep us posted.

AG

I aim to please!
b

Hey Star

Do you think the hesitation could be about his kids?
I don't want to get into a full on delineation about it, and I may find out eventually anyway, but I did a chart with the burning question:

Does his hesitation have to do with protecting his kids?

10:07am Apr 21

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?rs=3;btyp=w2gw;cid=pjjfileW0cXEQ-u1207430240;nhor=2

I just wanted to look for clues.

He is Saturn retro in the 3rd again....or his 9th of legalities.
His kids are Mars, in the 1st. Mars is applying to oppose Jup in his house. Jupiter rules his 4th.

Well, him being saturn retro is showing his delay and vacillation as we know.

The moon is just out of the via combusta, so safe.

Venus is right on the cusp of his 5th of kids..that has to mean something, although venus is in fall. The sun, ruler of the call, and mercury, ruler of end of the matter, are both in that 5th house.

Saturn likes mercury by rulership, exaltation and terms. Isn't Mercury the natural ruler of children? This would mean kids are utmost of importance to him.

Jupiter in the 7th has just recently aspected Uranus in his 4th...the split and subsequent move, although he is not Jupiter, but it does rules his home.

I am the moon, and I have MR with his kids, which are in my house. Not sure what that means exactly, unless we use the 1st as his ex-wife maybe as well?

I'd say they do have some bearing on the matter. Whaddya think?

thanks
barb

Hi Barb, yes, his children could well be the reason. Like you said, Mars (in his 7th!, wife) will oppose Jupiter in his 1st (one of his co-significators), maybe meaning that he is afraid they will oppose him. Also, Venus in his 5th will square Mars AND square Jupiter in his 1st. Venus co-rules the 5th house. It is ruler of the intercepted house in the 5th. Maybe his daughter and wife are the worst opponents. Does he have a daughter?
I also think that a court case could be on his mind. Ruler of his 3rd is the same as his ruler in his 9th. Ruler of his mind, Mercury, is under the Sunbeams, so he might feel very insecure about what is awaiting him in court, concerning his children. Mercury also in his 5th.
Yes, it could well be (one) of his worries. But generally he is not really in the mood for a love relationship at the môment I think because the 5th also rules love relationships of course and the same squares and oppositions could point to his love feelings at the moment. I think he needs time Barb. I would not pressure him. Men especially in these sort of situations, need a lot of time to get to their good old self. Give him space and be patient. Both Venus and Mars are weak and Mars can be interpreted both ways, as being in your 1st house or as being in his wifes house. What looks positive for you is that the Moon (you) will make a trine with Mars. But the Moon is in a succedent house and in the Via Combusta does not act all too fast, so this maybe shows that getting together under better circumstances could take a bit of time.

I must go now. What do you think? Star.

Well said Star!
You confirmed a lot of what I was thinking and wondering about. And there he is, in his own 9th house of court cases!
Custody makes sense of course. He does not have a daughter, but twin boys.
I'm sitting back and have no intention of pushing this, but what a great opportunity to ask a horary question!
Horary is just so fun, and having this knowledge makes it all that much easier of course.
It also jibes with the phone call chart we did and the whole delay angle of it all.
Yep, it all just falls together doesn't it.
thanks again Star
barb

Hi AG, Star and all.

Just wanted to report back on what happened with timing. We had figured that the call would happen in either 1/2 of a month, or 25 days, since it was 25 minutes from mercury, the call, to the antisica of saturn, him. Well, that was a week ago unfortunately, and no call came. It could be the planets were too weak to do anything. Here's the link to that chart if anyone is interested.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?rs=3;btyp=w2gw;cid=pjjfileW0cXEQ-u1207430240;nhor=3

Unless of course the 'private caller' I got on day 25 was him, which would be hilarious. Antiscia talks about 'hidden' doesn't it? I did a thread on that a few days ago, but didn't get a definitive yes or no.


I decided to do a final horary, since it still doesn't feel completely over to me. I am more resolved about whatever happens...yes or no, its fine, but his energy is still around me, so its rather weird to say the least.

I asked - will we ever see each other again romantically, will there be a phone call?
May 15, 2008 7:33am Vancouver BC

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?rs=3;btyp=w2gw;cid=pjjfileW0cXEQ-u1207430240;nhor=1

Well looky here.....a 29 degree rising! How perfect! This says it's too late to do anything about it. A consideration against judgement? I'm going to judge it anyway cause I think the chart says a lot of interesting things. As Frawley says....astrology doesn't ever stop working..

I'm mercury, strong in gemini but weak in the 12th house. The house of angst or something like that? He is Jupiter, peregrine and retrograde in his own 2nd house. He is completely concered about his money situation. As a separated and about-to-get-divorced-guy is apt to do. His dispositor Saturn is right there in his career house. It looks like he's worried and upset about his financial situation. (I do believe AG mentioned this previously...and here it is again!)

Pluto is right there on the Dsc...showing his grief and loss...maybe about his marriage...or maybe about his money! Jupiter has recently separated from Uranus, which probably showed his separation, but jup is now retrograde and is going back to sextile Uranus again....possibly the actual divorce. 22 minutes...could be weeks, which would be 6 months from now. Or, as it rules his 4th, it could point to another move.

As for him and I, Mercury and Jupiter have no MR. Jupiter is in the triplicity of Venus, my romantic planet, but that's about it. The Sun, his animal side, loves Venus and the Moon, so he's still interested romantically/sexually speaking.

Are there any connections between us? Mercury does not aspect jupiter, but the moon will. However, Venus does. Venus, my female planet, is combust the sun, so is super weak, as i am, since I am powerless to do anything about this, AND I have no idea what is going on with him. I am literally, in the dark. He is weak as well, but he is retrograde which means he is applying to me, as it would have to be. Venus trines Jupiter in 4 degrees. Can I even use this? We're both pretty weak, but what the heck. I'm in the mood to be optimistic. I'd say that jupiter is actually collecting light! i'm not sure about collection of light, but it looks like jupiter will collect both of my planets, the moon first and then Venus. Is this correct?

Venus rules me, and my 5th house, and also rules the moon in libra in the 5th.

Mars is right on the 3rd cusp of phone calls. Who is Mars? not him...since he is over 35 years old. He is the Sun. Mars rules 6th and 11th, or his 5th.
The Sun will conjunct the antisica of Mars in under 2 degrees.....can I use that as him calling?

Pluto will hit the Dsc, and oppose me, in 1.5 degrees. Not sure what that means either.

The moon in libra in 5 will trine mercury, ruler of me and a date, and then will go on to square jupiter, him. The moon will, in effect, translate light from me to him. interesting. This is showing more promise than i had thought. It's a long way off though. Moon to Jup is 17 degrees. good grief. I knew there was a delay involved, but come on! If this doesn't happen within the next couple of weeks, its not going to, cause i'll be way over it. It would have to be venus to jupiter, in 4 degrees. days....or maybe weeks.

So, this is my synopsis. Can I use the moon and venus to jupiter, weak as they are?
let me know what you think
thanks
barb

Hi Barb, it is late at night here and I just read your last post.
On first view it does not look promising I'm afraid, but maybe tomorrow, when I review this, I will see some light points.

1. Ascendant too late as you also saw
2. Mercury in 12, house of self-undoing and sorrow
3. Moon, weak in Libra but at least in her own face, but after 10° she will be peregrine in Libra. She is also intercepted, so you are a bit stuck on this matter, like you wrote, you have no idea where he stands at the moment when it comes to dating.
4. He is Jupiter in fall in nasty 8th house, but his 2nd, so indeed money worries (lawyer fees, alimony )and also his reputation or career. Saturn, the ruler of his 2nd is in his 10th. He is probably re-negotiating about the amount he has to pay.
5. Mercury will make an applying inconjunct with Jupiter, showing that something is "out of joint" between the two of you and needs fixing
6.Sun, ruler of "the outcome" is in your 12th and peregrine in Taurus and VOC. Last but not least, he is conjunct Algol...... and Saturn retro, malific, is in your 4th house.

Moon, your co-significator still thinks very much of romance, love and a date, being in the 5th. It does not mean that there will be a date, but let's see.

Your hopes are actually quite diminished if you ask me, because Jupiter, ruler of your house of hopes and wishes, is in your 8th.

As Mercury rules your 5th house of dates, we will take the Moon representing you this time and see if Moon will aspect Mercury and see there, she will indeed in 11°12'. This could be in about 11 weeks (Cardinal sign and succedent house).

You said:

Venus rules me,

Click to expand...

I dont think you can say that. Mercury and Moon rule you. Venus is usually another woman, wife,girlfriend, or your female sexual side only.


However, Venus rules that Moon and Venus is combust in your 12th house.
Does this mean you are heading for a desillusion or a situation which you cannot clearly oversee ? (him and the twins,(visiting hours, days, maybe even vacations) and imagine if you and him will decide upon a future together, have you any idea what it is to be a second mother? Things like that are very hard to picture when you are in love. You are about to loose your head a bit when leaving the Sun again because you run straight into Algol.
but maybe you do realize this as the Asc. is so late.

I am afraid that I dont see this story end well. You might have a date again, but secretly as Merc.is in your 12th and I dont think it will be very nice.

Pluto is very prominent here and actually in a critical degree (0° of a Cardinal sign) and retrograding towards the opposition with your Ascendant. I dont know how this will work out, but with Pluto we usually have to let go.
Moon already squared Pluto, so emotionally you have recently undergone emotional turmoil and are maybe even prepared for what will come.

I am going to bed now. See you tomorrow! Cheers, Star.

The Sabian Symbol for the Ascendant is:

30° Gemini, A PARADE OF BATHING BEAUTIES BEFORE LARGE BEACH CROWDS.
One of the Cautions is: lusting after the unattainable......

And for Mercury at Gemini 17:
Oracle: regardless of age, it's time for a more mature attitude. The old ways of solving things will no longer work. etc.

One of the keywords: facing reality, life changing events, thinking, pondering and growing up overnight.

Caution: Hormones taking over and dictating behavior, reacting with the lower emotional nature, forever adolescent

Oh dear.....

Hi Star

I think the chart is very accurate with what is going on and how I'm feeling. I hung in there pretty hard to see how that last horary would work out....we figured the call would be may 11th ish, but once that passed, the letting go process started taking over. So, that was probably that moon last squaring pluto you mentioned. The late Asc degree I think is signifying that i need to just let sleeping dogs lie....
I really do think I'll hear from him again, as all the charts have pointed to that outcome, but the chart is saying to me that it could be a long time coming indeed, and I need to put it at the back...the very very back, of my mind and to move on. They all pointed to delays...and him not being in the right space. AG said

I think the simple answer to this question is 'probably yes....after a time'.

Click to expand...

This chart I think is reiterating that....timing is everything, and he's not ready. Of course I had to do another chart.....but at least its saying the same thing! We just got the timing confused on the first one....as timing is so difficult to figure out anyway. I cannot give up hope completely, but I can certainly surrender it and move on, knowing it could be months, or longer... before he's ready to entertain the thought of someone new, or it may even never happen. If he does call one day and I'm available....at least I'll be in a better space to reassess the situation. It could be that I wouldn't even want him at a future time.

I know, I had read the Sabian symbols as well...pretty much sums it all up doesn't it?

There are some positives in there too though

The Sun degree: 26 Taurus a spaniard serenading his senorita - think positively and play your role with enthusiasm and passion. Shared feelings, love or passion may be the result.

Asc degree; 30 Gemini - be aware that that you are getting a lot of attention and that there is a potential audience.

Thanks for looking for me Star

I kinda like those late degrees rising....it really tells a whole story in one fell swoop!

thanks thanks
barbh

Hi Barb! Good that you looked at some other Symbols. It was passed midnight here so I thought to just look at Asc. and it's ruler. Yes, who knows, when all has died down at his end, things might change for the better.
Difficult those situations, but such is life

Take care Barb, see you in time with another story!

Starlink