Your "Destiny" & the North Node

poyi said:

Hm, those are the materials I found that actually describe my NN and SN well and I have described their functions in my chart in the previous reply. But to see the actual functions of nodes in your chart perhaps need to look back to your previous events to see their actual manifestation, individually....

My feeling of SN is highly likely related to the conjunction with Jupiter in my chart obviously much expanded version of SN in 4th the deepest side of me which also influenced me how I see SN because that is how SN behaved in my chart.

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So... you actually experienced pain and despair, or something like it, and you pin that on your South Node? That is what I referred to.

In your other comments, even tho you and I use very different systems, I'd agree with most of your points:

poyi said:

I have also found articles about Ketu/SN classified as the achievements, abilities or hidden talents that we had already achieved or to be born with (existing since the beginning of the physical form of life) from the previous life. Something that we do not need to work to achieve anymore, which is something that we feel comfortable with because no effort required.

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I certainly agree with you about abilities related to the SN. Especially if there's a planet conjunct the SN, then a person often displays a talent or characteristic trait related to that planet. I personally feel it's unnecessary to bring in the past life concept, but if you sincerely believe that that's a reality, then go for it!

Again, IMO, since they are the Nodes of the Moon, I think they must surely have something to do with our mothers and our early childhood (SN) and how we separate from those influences and become our own selves (NN). Once that happens, we're free to integrate what we were as children with what we are becoming as adults... if we care to.

poyi said:

Rahu/NN is the focus of this life time, something we value and love but we must work on it to achieve the fulfillment of this life time. In a way, Ketu is an area that we must abandon to achieve the goal in Rahu which is why I mentioned Ketu as the Seed of Rahu. The way Rahu and Ketu opposition in the chart is similar to AC/DC and MC/IC, they carry opposition meanings of each other but then can only survive as a pair.

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True, it's a trajectory in this lifetime, from SN to NN. I feel it is similar to any opposition of planets or points: while some people will see an opposition as "polarizing", an opposition also can help us look at both sides (not a "bad" side and a "good" side, just both sides) of an issue presented by the planets or points. I think the idea behind an opposition is to integrate the two ends. To do that, we have to experience both. Same with the Nodes.

But I'm not sure it's necessary to abandon anything in our past when we get familiar with what the NN is, and how we want to express it, any more than a person would "abandon" one end of a planet opposition. For instance, I didn't just drop being a Virgo Sun (and SN) person in order to become a Pisces.... just worked the Pisces energy into my Virgo life.

Judy_AzVirgo said:

I've read this kind of stuff from books, too, but reading something doesn't necessarily make it so.

It doesn't require sadness, suffering, disasters, and so on for a person to move along the continuum from SN to NN.... just a little age and experience. That's all. No hocus pocus.

Your comments about the NN functioning better in some signs than in others doesn't really ring true to me, either.

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If you are already on your path then rahu won't cause any issues (neither will any planet IMO)...

The NN probably doesn't function better in some signs. In Vedic they are very focused on weaknesses/strengths but the signs for the nodes aren't agreed upon. Some say Rahu is best in Gemini, some say Aquarius/Capricorn since Rahu is friends with Saturn (while others consider RAHU a great benefic)

The north and south nodes are VERY important to understanding your own evolution in my estimation. Usually, your south node is "stuff you are good at" and your north node is "stuff you suck at". The north usually causes anxiety because its way of being is foreign. The south usually causes discontent, because it is familiar and stagnant.

You usually can't get enough of the north, and you are usually fed up with the south. You learn at the north, you don't learn so much from the south.

They are both breaks in duality, where energy tends not to flow smoothly.

Judy_AzVirgo said:

So... you actually experienced pain and despair, or something like it, and you pin that on your South Node? That is what I referred to.

In your other comments, even tho you and I use very different systems, I'd agree with most of your points: I certainly agree with you about abilities related to the SN. Especially if there's a planet conjunct the SN, then a person often displays a talent or characteristic trait related to that planet. I personally feel it's unnecessary to bring in the past life concept, but if you sincerely believe that that's a reality, then go for it!

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I don't really believe in past life. It just how some Vedic astrologers describe the nodes and I presented them out as a point of view.

I need to explain several things to describe how SN plays out the way it had in my chart.

My mother had aborptions 2-3 times before my birth, she didn't want to give birth to me mainly because of our abusive father. At one stage before my birth, my mother wanted to sell me to a rich family.

Moon natural ruler of the 4th, locates in 5th house aspecting 4th house by semisquare Jupiter in Capricorn detriment. 4th house is a comfortable home for Jupiter in normal situation but Moon is in detriment and her south nodes is in 4th, her eclipse. Otherwise, in normal situation if not afflicted Jupiter in 4th normal suggests Great Fortune regarding to property or great blessing or happiness regarding to family and early childhood.

I was born because my sister wanted to have a younger sister. Generally speaking, Mercury in 3rd house, sibling plays a major rule in this native's life.

Mercury is the ruler of Ascendant Virgo also exalted in Virgo, sextile Mars and ruler of 10th house Gemini.

Mercury in his own house 3rd house co-ruler of the 3rd with Mars in 1st house ruling 3rd house Scorpio signs (Scorpio Pluto, Saturn, Sun & Mercury), Mercury and Mars are in mutual reception but both in their own natural houses.

Mars is the traditional ruler of Scorpio and modern night ruler of Scorpio.

Mars natural ruler of the 1st. Close relationship between Mercury and Mars is indicated in my chart, ascendant the birth of the physical body. Mercury quintile ascendant

After our parent divorced my sister took over the father's role to support the family. She also supported my oversea study, Mercury ruler of the 10th house career, cusp of Rahu.

4th house Jupiter (conjunct IC, Uranus & SN) semisquare Pluto and Moon. Jupiter and 4th both represent one of the parents, conjunct SN Jupiter normally representing a male role model in the home/early childhood 4th, planet of expansion. Sun also conjunct with malefic Saturn.

My father was abusive both my sister and I used to lock ourselves in the room when mother went to work night shift for 15 years that was our life pattern after each evening dinner. Sun itself conjunct Saturn. My father can get easily irrigated and hit us. My sister still have nightmare about his abuses. She is already 35 years old. And I only got those dreams when I talked to him on the phone. The deepest unconsciousness IC conjunct SN.

Moon is the natural ruler of 4th, where SN located and Moon square Pluto, pain and needs of rebirth regarding to the relationship with mother. If I use placidus chart, Pluto & Saturn in 2nd house, 2nd house values in all form: material, emotional values of self and possessions. And Jupiter is also semisquare pluto. SN also semisquare Sun and Sun is the ruler of 12th house.

I would say, my real life only started after I left my homeland at the age of 17 years old and 11 months. At the time, natal nodes were about to return their position of birth. Natal nodes return every 18.6 years.

Detach away from my family was necessary in my case. My own self confidence was fully built and developed after I left my family and homeland. My greatest fulfillment in life is my career and my personality and sense of self worth was mainly based on the satisfied from work, Rahu in 10th house. My personal awareness and sense of rebirth was by seeking meaning of life through philosophy/religion and meaning of self existence. The reason why I want to seek understanding was due to my early childhood and teenage development.

Due to the drive of seeking those understandings in the deepest unconsciousness from the 4th, I can achieve my deepest fulfillment through my career the outer most self. You can also see from my chart, Mars trine Moon with Mercury standing near the midpoint of the pattern, Mercury working in harmony by sextile with both Mars (Mars exalts in Capricorn Moon; Mercury exalts in Virgo Mars) and Moon. Mercury the center of the attention rules over 1st and 10th. Rahu in 10th angular house aspects the rest of the angular houses 1st, 4th and 7th. But 3rd house Mercury rules over Rahu. 4th house SN also aspect all other angular houses and SN conjunct with the planet of expansion and IC.

Mercury together with Mars and Jupiter are three major planets of my chart. These three planets two of them Mercury and Jupiter are the rulers of the cusp where nodes locate (Mercury rules the Gemini cusp of Rahu; Jupiter rules the Sagittarius cusp of Ketu). Mars and the cusp of Rahu share the same sign's ruler.

My career choice is based my own childhood experiences. I want to make a change to help others. And the experiences that I gather from work have Completed a very major part of me as a human being.

Judy_AzVirgo said:

Again, IMO, since they are the Nodes of the Moon, I think they must surely have something to do with our mothers and our early childhood (SN) and how we separate from those influences and become our own selves (NN). Once that happens, we're free to integrate what we were as children with what we are becoming as adults... if we care to.

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Yes. In my case, to abandon the values I received from my mother is very important indeed. It was the first step for me to move on to maturity as an individual.

Judy_AzVirgo said:

True, it's a trajectory in this lifetime, from SN to NN. I feel it is similar to any opposition of planets or points: while some people will see an opposition as "polarizing", an opposition also can help us look at both sides (not a "bad" side and a "good" side, just both sides) of an issue presented by the planets or points. I think the idea behind an opposition is to integrate the two ends. To do that, we have to experience both. Same with the Nodes.

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The experiences from my 4th house SN influence the direction of 10th house Rahu greatly.

Judy_AzVirgo said:

But I'm not sure it's necessary to abandon anything in our past when we get familiar with what the NN is, and how we want to express it, any more than a person would "abandon" one end of a planet opposition. For instance, I didn't just drop being a Virgo Sun (and SN) person in order to become a Pisces.... just worked the Pisces energy into my Virgo life.

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I would say again, it really do depending on your overall chart. There is no definite answer. I have explained how I experiences my nodes the way I experienced as above.

See this link:
http://www.articlesbase.com/astrology-articles/heart-problems-in-astrology-3202202.html

The other thing, Sun conjunct Saturn, Sun rules 12th house Leo ruler of heart and blood circulation. While 4th also represents the heart of the native in medical astrology. Moon is in the natural house of Leo and Sun, she is in detriment and her own eclipse SN located in her own natural home. I have congenital heart problem.

Poyi, your childhood must have been very difficult to live through! You are one strong lady, and definitely a survivor.... do I recall correctly that you have a stellium in Scorpio? And I can see where you would need to detach from your family in order to grow and thrive. Thanks for explaining.

I guess I was lucky to have a pretty normal childhood and be able to explore my NN at leisure.

jbschirtzinger said:

The north and south nodes are VERY important to understanding your own evolution in my estimation. Usually, your south node is "stuff you are good at" and your north node is "stuff you suck at". The north usually causes anxiety because its way of being is foreign. The south usually causes discontent, because it is familiar and stagnant.

You usually can't get enough of the north, and you are usually fed up with the south. You learn at the north, you don't learn so much from the south.

They are both breaks in duality, where energy tends not to flow smoothly.

Click to expand...

They can be breaks, or they can be part of a continuum. I've seen it both ways in people's lives. Maybe it depends in part on whether one has planets in the signs of the Nodes?

But yes, the NN can be very unfamiliar territory to explore and utilize. I'm reminded of George W Bush's chart, with Uranus conjunct his NN (in Gemini in his 11th house). I don't know the man, but I always felt that he had a difficult time with change (let alone sudden changes) or even going forward, preferring the comfortable "old boy" network and the status quo. After 9/11, he really had to face that NN-Uranus energy and deal with it.

On the other hand -- just as an example -- Evel Knievel had Uranus conjunct his SN. It was easy for him to take risks.

Judy_AzVirgo said:

Poyi, your childhood must have been very difficult to live through! You are one strong lady, and definitely a survivor.... do I recall correctly that you have a stellium in Scorpio? And I can see where you would need to detach from your family in order to grow and thrive. Thanks for explaining.

I guess I was lucky to have a pretty normal childhood and be able to explore my NN at leisure.

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Yes I have Scorpio stellium in 3rd house (whole sign) or 2nd & 3rd together in Placius. Mars rules over all the Scorpio signs 4 of them out of 10 planets and Mercury has mutual reception.

I watched a video before. That was a really good video about Jupiter conjunct SN. (The beginning of the video was a bit silly LOL)

See this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nL9X15LdcY
In the bottom of the comment section of this link, someone mentioned Steve Jobs had Jupiter conjunct Ketu in Gemini (Jupiter in fall) at 11th house. Jupiter is the ruler of liver/pancreas and digestive system in general. Steve died from the complication of relapse of Pancreatic cancer as respiratory arrest. Gemini rules breathing...some interesting thing here.

Mars as an Almuten in a chart:
http://renaissance-astrology.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/guardian-angel-almuten-figuris.html
"If it is Mars, s/he will fight in order to dominate."

The first time read the description of my north node, I identified it as everything I love about this world. When I read the south node description, I identified it with everything I hate about this world. Basically I was born on the path.

I was born days after a lunar eclipse, so maybe having north node in the same sign/house as your sun is more significant than the just sign placement would suggest.

Admittedly though, both my parents have suns in the same sign as mine, so that might be yet another factor of significance. They set up the environment and expectation that harmonizes with my north node. I didn't meet disappointment until I graduated from college and pursed a career that deviates from north node. In my non-career life I'm in line with my north node. I wish I was acquainted with astrology before I spent all that money on college. It is one of the most important decisions to make in life, yet happens when you are a teen and know more about the world than yourself.

there has been some discussion of nodes showing the main conditions of any chart. i wonder if we could put up a few example charts of anyone who has passed away, to look at the nodes in these charts and see how much they alone tell of anyone's "destiny."
lets look at what circumstances/qualities they came into life with and the what they left with. it would be interesting to see how or if it played out in nodes.

poyi said:

I watched a video before. That was a really good video about Jupiter conjunct SN. (The beginning of the video was a bit silly LOL)

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I just watched the video. Guess I just don't can't get into Vedic astrology. Even the description of Jupiter.... I would say an inborn ability to live life in a big way or to be lucky, maybe, depending on sign/house.

See this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nL9X15LdcY
In the bottom of the comment section of this link, someone mentioned Steve Jobs had Jupiter conjunct Ketu in Gemini (Jupiter in fall) at 11th house. Jupiter is the ruler of liver/pancreas and digestive system in general. Steve died from the complication of relapse of Pancreatic cancer as respiratory arrest. Gemini rules breathing...some interesting thing here.
[/QUOTE]
I just watched the video. Guess I just don't can't get into Vedic astrology. Even the description of Jupiter with SN .... I would say an inborn ability to live life in a big way or to be lucky, maybe, depending on sign/house.

In a Western chart, Steve Jobs had Jupiter in Cancer, the same sign as his SN, but not conjunct except as a same-sign, too wide conjunction (SN @ 2 Cancer, Jupiter @ 20 Cancer. He had Uranus conjunct his Jupiter. All of the above in his 10th house using Placidus; I suspect Uranus-Jupiter would be in his 11th house using Koch.

The pancreas is part of the digestive system and is ruled by the Moon/Cancer/4th house, according to what I've read.... well, who knows.

poyi said:

Mars as an Almuten in a chart:
http://renaissance-astrology.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/guardian-angel-almuten-figuris.html
"If it is Mars, s/he will fight in order to dominate."

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I believe Mars is Almuten in my chart, as well (in Scorpio, in 1st house), but I rarely use Arabic stuff. Charts are complex enough without that!

Oops, didn't do the quotes right.... sorry!

I think that's a fine idea. Poyi mentioned Steve Jobs' chart. But the signs/houses will be different depending on what systems we're using.

Judy_AzVirgo said:

I think that's a fine idea. Poyi mentioned Steve Jobs' chart. But the signs/houses will be different depending on what systems we're using.

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Sign of the cusp itself is already intersesting enough!!

i can see how Jobs had a difficult time digesting life. He was a spiritual seeker in a world ripe with new understandings. he found a way to revolutionize world publishing, music, communicating with the world as a whole. always returning "home".
he left a lot of things and people but came back always.
he died 35 miles or so from where he grew up.
Adopted!!!!
Did destiny of birth get altered or realized?
he built foundations. often attributed to saturn, but core is moon.
i had a hard time choking down apples thuggery of on line booksellers ~ hard to imagine he would have considered it. i want the skinny on that one.
He did too well bringing new ideas and formats communicating among world to imagine he played some Cap NN ace in the hole.

MaeMae said:

i can see how Jobs had a difficult time digesting life. He was a spiritual seeker in a world ripe with new understandings. he found a way to revolutionize world publishing, music, communicating with the world as a whole. always returning "home".
he left a lot of things and people but came back always.
he died 35 miles or so from where he grew up.
Adopted!!!!
Did destiny of birth get altered or realized?
he built foundations. often attributed to saturn, but core is moon.
i had a hard time choking down apples thuggery of on line booksellers ~ hard to imagine he would have considered it. i want the skinny on that one.
He did too well bringing new ideas and formats communicating among world to imagine he played some Cap NN ace in the hole.

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Jobs was an Aquarius South in the tenth and a Leo North in the fourth as I remember in tropical astrology. In Vedic, he might drop back a sign, but that doesn't really matter if we take the flavor of the house the nodes fall in. So what we can expect where Jobs was concerned is that he would have a job with a certain geeky flair in career concerning where he stood out the most prominently. Check for that.

What we can also infer is that that was old hat to him and was probably tiring. Do we have evidence of that? His dying wish was that he regretted not being able to be there more for his family. That, to me, is the perfect expression of someone who clings to the south and neglects the north. He got sick, probably, because he was so caught up in work. He still didn't stop even after he got sick. Effectively he was a capricorn south, cancer north.

Sun Taurus conjunct North node Aries in 9th house speaking here!
I don't know what to think about it.
I used to think that it was a good thing to grow to my NN, but I'm afraid that I will have it much more difficult in my life when being at my NN.
My South Node in Libra is conjunct Pluto, so that wasn't easy to bear too.
I'm definetely feeling that it's time to grow to my north node, since Saturn transit is triggering south node and Pluto . But it's too difficult to stand out.

I found another two links talk about the nodes. I started searching for Rahu and magic because Moog another member mentioned about the relationship of Rahu rules occult, mysteries.

"the ruler of mysteries and magic and is named as Rahu."

"A strong, clean and well placed Rahu in a horoscope can also make the native become successful in fields which require paranormal or occult powers or black magic or any kind of magic at all."

The first link even talks about how Rahu gives you sudden gain and lost such as lottery and bankruptcy.

"The major significances and people ruled by Rahu are places of gambling or fortune making and the people dealing in such places like, lotteries, jackpots, casinos, horse racing, stock markets and all other such activities which can bring sudden gains and losses to a native, Scientists and particularly Inventors who find out something very new and unique out of a sudden and become very famous by virtue of these inventions..."

Rahu is being described as the shadow planet of Manipulator.

Unfortunately the best resources that I gather so far are usually from Vedic astrology. That is because Vedic astrology strongly emphasized the nodes as two major planets.

The second link talks about both beneficial and malefic effects of Rahu

http://www.bhavishyadrishti.com/PlanetRahu.aspx
http://www.shridusmahavidhya.com/?page_id=297

Enjoy reading!