Are you a Manly-woman or a Feminine-man under The Asc Mask?

NikaWhite said:

It all depends on how well those others know you.

If they do not know you very well than the first thing they notice about you would be your ascendant. They might very well make a mistake by assuming that your ascendant is what your personality is all about. They would not have an opportunity to notice your sun sign and all the other planetary signs.

On the other hand those who know you better but are not included into your intimate circle of friends so to say, would have had an opportunity to learn about other parts of your psyche and would know that there is more to you than your ascendant. They would definitely be able to spot the influence of your sun sign upon your attitude and behaviour.

Finally, your closest friends, your parents – basically people with whom you have spent a quality amount of time and to whom you had the courage to open up- would be able to spot your moon sign. The moon is our subconscious mind and it is the most intimate part. We do not share it with people we do not know well. We keep it hidden usually without even realizing that we do so, until we feel safe and secure to share that part of ourselves with someone else.

I am just sticking to basics – ascendant, sun and moon signs as it would take a couple of pages to explore other planetary signs, planetary strengths and aspects. However I am trying to portray the point that it all depends on who those others are and that different groups of people will have slightly different perceptions of us.

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Very well written.

Also our co workers for instance would see our planets in the 6th or the ruler. Our siblings would see our 3rd house influences and our parents, our 4th house influences. The sun and moon at our birth denotes the relationship between our parents and how that influenced us. It goes a long way to explaining why our siblings have a different experience of the home life, and their perceptions of our parents etc.

How we are when we are alone and in private is shown by the 12th house and our partnerships by the 7th.

The ascendant is the persona or the mask and is the first impressions made and how people see us just in the physical. Whether it is really true of who we are is different for everyone. Some one with major planets in the 1st house will show who they are largely, up front.

Everyone is perceived largely by our own projections.

Claire19 said:

Would you be prepared to load an anonymous chart? I would just like to see it.

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Sure, there's charts in my picture thing here;

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/album.php?albumid=789&pictureid=4441

The Asc creates a cover for the underneath for many, so goes the same for you.

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I'm a bit taken aback that my girly outfits are apparently all due to the Capricorn ascendant.

A best friend from university was born close to me, all planets conjunct except the Moons. Her ascendant is Aries, yet we bickered constantly over the same frilly skirts and beaded tops at the consignment shops. Perhaps I should track her down and demand that she give me all the skirts that she won since, after all, I'm the feminine one.

Can someone please tell me how close venus and mars have to be from each other in a sign to be considered androgynous. Eg does 13 degrees apart in the same sign count.

I am an Aquarius sun female with Aries rising.
-Mars in the first house, in Taurus.
-Mars squares Venus. (also, Venus squares Pluto)
-Mars opposes Pluto.

As far as looks, I am 5 feet 7 inches, which is the average height of a male. I stay on the slim side.

My mom and my closest cousin always said that I have the pride of a man. I hide that well, but its true.

Hmmmmm.

I'm a Leo sun female with Gemini rising and a Sagittarian moon.... no planets in my first house but do have Jupiter (in Taurus) conjunct my ascendant but in the 12th by body.

Mars in Virgo (5th), Venus in Leo (4th), Venus in Leo (4th) conjunct Mercury in Virgo (5th)...

.......

My Gemini rising does lend my facial features a certain androgyny but my body is most definitely feminine. My personality is a blend, when I was younger I tended towards being a tomboy which isn't surprising being a Daddy's girl and having a mother who went out of her way to defy feminine stereotypes - but as I grew older I found myself becoming more and more comfortable with women and with being a woman. But, its just one aspect of myself, my gender, and I try not to get too hung up on it.

One of the problems I find in these type of discussions is the way we assign certain character traits to gender - supposedly assertiveness is a masculine trait while submissiveness is feminine, for example. As with most blanket statements though that doesn't always hold true... its a general trend but there are always outliers to defy the curve.

Speaking of defying curves, no one has mentioned hermaphrodites... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/fausto-sterling.html. There are some (link) who have proposed that there are more than two genders, perhaps as many as five. In older cultures people who emobodied more than one gender either through biology (hermaphrodite) or characteristics (tomboys, girly men) or sexual preference (lesbian, gay, bisexual) were accepted for themselves rather than being forced into a socially and biologically constructed stereotype.

Those stereotypes made sense, evolutionary speaking in Western society, until recently. Men were the hunters, defenders, and providers and developed character traits accordingly while women raised the young, supported their men, and made good use of resources. This was necessary for survival.

Now, its not all so clear cut and it doesn't really need to be. Yes, biologically men and women are different - our brains work differently, we produce different levels of different hormones, and when it comes to reproduction women carry the infant and men supply the seed. But, our experiences in life are different than they once were and I am of the mind that we are still evolving as a species - so perhaps gender is changing somewhat.

Anyway - I'd say I am a "me" inhabiting a female form. My Air rising gives me a familiarity with duality (and Mercury exalted in Virgo as well) which may be part of why I pay attention to these type of subjects - I like finding the grey areas inbetween. My Fire sun & moon lend me masculine traits but they also provide intuition (which is typically thought to be feminine).

And a few things that caught my eye...

SparklingAgate said:

Don't people get tired of these dualities?

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I know, right. Its so much more interesting to go beyond duality... and more accurate.

greybeard said:

1. I do not have a monthly period (No, Virginia, there is no such thing as PMS.)

2. I can't carry a living, growing new life within my body (But what does that have to do with bonding anyway.)

6. Nothing I have said here is meant to imply that women are somehow inferior to men. The only thing said is "we are different." We have different roles to play on the stage of life. Why I should try to change my role into your role befuddles me.

8. There is one very simple yet extremely powerful difference between men and women. Women do not have to hunt. All they have to do is BE, and the rest takes care of itself. A man, in the very nature of things, must hunt. If you don't know what I'm talking about you have never driven a taxicab on the wrong side of town.

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I agree with number 6, we are different and that is as it should be, but defining all men's experience of being a man by your own experience is short sighted and limiting to other men who have had different experiences. Just because you have a penis doesn't mean your experience is the same as someone else who happens to have a penis.

1. & 2. Does a woman cease to be a woman during menopause or after a hysterectomy? If a woman never carries a child and perhaps is unable to - does that negate her gender?

And 8. seriously? Obviously, *smile* you are not a woman as you haven't participated in the ritual of dressing up and going out - war paint and leathers - to "find a man". Women hunt, they hunt men, and in doing so compete with one another in a way that makes men's competitions with each other look positively pleasant. Flower? Sure, a Venus Fly Trap.

But, everyone is entitled to their own perception and experience, I respect that. Just my two bits.

chris10 said:

Great thread Blackempress!

Sun in Cancer =yin,
Moon in scorpio =yin,
ASC Virgo =yin,
The first impression I give is that I am shy and ...feminine.
I don't feel very feminine, though. I don't even feel comfortable in dresses.

Mercury in Leo =yang,
Venus in Leo=yang,
Mars in Aries=yang,
Jupiter in aqua=yang,
Saturn in Gemini=yang,
Uranus in Libra=yang,
Neptune in Sagit=yang,
Pluto in Libra=yang,

Pluto in Libra 1 degree conjucts ASC 26.30 degrees =yang
Saturn 27 degrees Gemini conjuct MC 26.30 Gemini =yang
Male-dominant thinking, male-dominant action.
I remember my mom once telling me that her doctor told her that she would give birth to a boy ...
I also love extreme sports.
If someone called me passive, I would consider that an insult haha.


I think, Venus in a tight trine to Mars, has saved the day for me...
otherwise I would probably never have had a proper relationship...

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I dont use Pluto anymore and the generational planets belong to a whole group so I would just count the personal planets for the yin and yang balance. So we are all a mix and with different emphasis, good thing too. I would count Ascendant as two points, Sun as two points, Moon as two points, Mercury as one point, Venus and Mars as one point each and then see the ratio. Just for fun. Not including the outer planets.

greybeard said:

A flower does not hunt; a bee does.

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Might be a bit off topic but wanted to point out the irony of this example.

Pollinating bees are female.

The heavens when I was born in a snapshot had me at aquarius rising, with more than 6 air signs, and a Martian disposition... So I would say yes I am pretty much a female on the masculine side. People here always assume I am a male I am not a male I am woman and I only listen to empowered women in the arts, music, at home, with friends, etc. I am lucky that way. But I don't correlate masculinity to empowerment.. Well it is in a sense. But so is femininity. So I would rather much have a balance and you know it depends on my mood because the moon has so many contacts to other planets in my chart, it quite affecting of my appearance and voice... I sound like a young kid on the phone but I'm actually a tough cookie I kid you not I threw a big woman on the floor in an aikido class and the teacher even said it ..

I feel like im somewhere in-between, i don't overly identify with either gender..

All Planets + Asc: 5 Masculine, 5 Feminine

From my personal planets + Asc; 5 in Masculine, 2 in Feminine

Ascendant/Moon/Mercury/Jupiter - Gemini (Masculine)
Venus/Mars - Leo (Masculine)
Sun - Cancer (Feminine)
Saturn - Capricorn (Feminine)

Mars and Venus are conjunct which blends the masculine and feminine energies in my chart. The stellium in Gemini i feel also contributes to this feeling of neutrality. It created much confusion with sexuality growing up..

Im not sure how i appear to others; i guess they would need to tell me. But since i have so many planets in the 1st house, i would assume masculine.

I 'FEEL' neutral. I love extreme sports, travel, adventure, action and change. But i'm also quite open with my emotions.

I have a very strong ..................?

I cant find the right word to put there as it has always been seen as weak to have a lot of feminine,negative,denying,principles because of the mistaken understanding that this polarity is not worth as much as the masculine,positive,affirming..polarity.
I think the words themselves say it all.Despite decades of work to help people to see that the opposite has equal value.Its very apparent from our reactions to these words says it all?
I consider myself very fortunate as a male to have Sun in Taurus,Moon in Taurus,Mercury in TaurusVenus in Pisces:,Mars in GeminiJupiter in cancer.All those female exaltation's make me super sensitive,And capable of understanding someones feelings and emotions very easily.And as far as i am concerned there are not enough positive words to describe these energies.The trouble is i live in the west where 2nd isn't considered good enough,Where the Ego unfortunately creates an imbalance in human behaviour.And the affirming energy is always seen as superior to the feminine energy because the untrained ego is only concerned with number one.Use the word 'Denying' or 'Negative' and you are immediately seen as a loser.The law of 3 is poorly understood in the west in my opinion.The 3 positions:Affirming,Denying and Reconciling' All have equal value.Irrespective of their position relative to each other,They will always have the same values,They cannot EXIST without each other.If there is more than one of them compared to the other then the sum does not add up.All actions in life have their equal and opposite reactions.To create an artificial imbalance as is often the case in the west leads to terrible consequences.I find the imbalance in the west is most likely responsible for its aggressive nature to the rest of the world.And back home i find it unbelievable that after so many years of talk of equality women still don't get equal pay in whatever job they do and a woman is not valued equally when she is being a mother.This is incredibly damaging to our society.Its no wonder in the grand scale of things that we are real losers because of our crazy values

PS:I forgot something important,My ascendant details.My Sun 2:35 Taurus,Mercury 3:05 Taurus,Trine Ascendant 1:25:Virgo I find this combination is a major factor in my personality.The compatibility of Mercury to a Virgo Ascendant and the spiritual affect of Sun trine to ascendant makes a separate but relatively compatible mask.

ptolomy said:

I have a very strong ..................?

I cant find the right word to put there as it has always been seen as weak to have a lot of feminine,negative,denying,principles because of the mistaken understanding that this polarity is not worth as much as the masculine,positive,affirming..polarity.
I think the words themselves say it all.Despite decades of work to help people to see that the opposite has equal value.Its very apparent from our reactions to these words says it all?
I consider myself very fortunate as a male to have Sun in Taurus,Moon in Taurus,Mercury in TaurusVenus in Pisces:,Mars in GeminiJupiter in cancer.All those female exaltation's make me super sensitive,And capable of understanding someones feelings and emotions very easily.And as far as i am concerned there are not enough positive words to describe these energies.The trouble is i live in the west where 2nd isn't considered good enough,Where the Ego unfortunately creates an imbalance in human behaviour.And the affirming energy is always seen as superior to the feminine energy because the untrained ego is only concerned with number one.Use the word 'Denying' or 'Negative' and you are immediately seen as a loser.The law of 3 is poorly understood in the west in my opinion.The 3 positions:Affirming,Denying and Reconciling' All have equal value.Irrespective of their position relative to each other,They will always have the same values,They cannot EXIST without each other.If there is more than one of them compared to the other then the sum does not add up.All actions in life have their equal and opposite reactions.To create an artificial imbalance as is often the case in the west leads to terrible consequences.I find the imbalance in the west is most likely responsible for its aggressive nature to the rest of the world.And back home i find it unbelievable that after so many years of talk of equality women still don't get equal pay in whatever job they do and a woman is not valued equally when she is being a mother.This is incredibly damaging to our society.Its no wonder in the grand scale of things that we are real losers because of our crazy values

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Children have two parents – one male, one female and it is not 'rocket science that the input of BOTH is a requirement for a 'balanced' home environment

HOWEVER, parenthood in general appears to be 'frowned on' BECAUSE it is considered acceptable that males miss out on their child's most important formative years due to being at work all day: by the time the father is home from work their child is usually sleeping.

There are males who remain at home with their child while the mother goes to work and in that case, the female parent misses out on the their child's most important formative years. Frequently, BOTH parents are forced to work in order to maintain a stable financial base and then not only both parents miss out on the their child's most important formative years but also their child is deprived of their necessary presence at a crucial time of their lives.

Therefore from as early as birth onwards, many western children rarely interact with their parents except at weekends!

Children are cared for by people who are only doing the work because they are PAID – and neither of the parents has any control over the patterns of behavior and/or thinking that a complete stranger is teaching their children.

And then there's school...

I'm a girl, Cancer sun. Outside Libra asc woman.

Boyish nature, adrogynious mind..

Gemini moon, leo venus + mercury, etc..

Manly spine, mars capricorn

greybeard said:

Goodness.....and me a Male Chauvinist.

Where I come from, Men are Men and women tend to the chilluns.

I hate to be the one to point this out, but women do not have a penis or the hormones or the mindset of a man. They lack the overt aggression and physical strength of a man. In sum, they are biologically different and can never become a man. And vice-versa of course.

P.S. -- Give your brother a big hug for me.

At risk of being labeled a troglodyte, I cannot for the life of me figure out what is wrong with being a man (in the most primitive sense of the word). Men have, throughout history and since long before history was, protected and defended women and children. You do not accomplish this by being a nice guy and spending your days creating flower arrangements. The difference in the sexes is biological and runs very deep; it is not easily erased. Why some women want their little boys to grow up to become refined, gentle, caring women (a lie on its face) is beyond me. Such efforts can only result in deep internal conflicts on the part of the affected boy (who ends up thinking that being a man is a bad thing.)

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OMG... COMPLETLEY DISAGREE. Have you not seen the amount of men out there who are completely incapable of "looking after" a woman let alone put themselves under pressure to do so when it doesn't come naturally to them. (and this has nothing to do with being feminine. I mean the amount of go getter aggressive men who are hopeless at looking after the family). Tonnes of men need leadership and security of a woman just as some women need it from men. So what do u say to a woman who is with a man who is hopeless at looking after her and kids. Do you tell her to just stay in the kitchen and put up with it. How would a relationship with two ppl who cannot provide be effective. Sounds like a pretty lousy unproductive life to me. Some women, who grow up with hardships of abandonment or other forms develop manly qualities to survive. THAT is why some, in fact a large majority of women want men who are kind and gentle and caring.
How can u think a woman is biologically different. I take mostly after my dad when it comes to hormones and aggression. How is that not biological.
According to the BSRI test, my husband is 75% FEMININE, yet he is amazingly self sufficient, the bread winner of the family and the best father of my children than any man I know. I am highly masculine, go for what I want, and am no where near as competent and providing for the family as he is.

ptolomy said:

I consider myself very fortunate as a male to have Sun in Taurus,Moon in Taurus,Mercury in TaurusVenus in Pisces:,Mars in GeminiJupiter in cancer.All those female exaltation's make me super sensitive,And capable of understanding someones feelings and emotions very easily.

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Lol, I love the smilies!

I knew a firefighter with the same, Moon in Taurus, but he had Sun and Mars in Cancer. He was such a softie, loves animals and cuddles and cries at sad movies. But, he runs into burning buildings and is one of the most 'manly' men that I've met, if put out in the wild, would find it easy to survive.

I have a masculine ascendant in Sagitarius and Mars also in Sag in the first house. I often feel quite masculine in my assertive nature. I have to look after myself, no one else is going to do it for me. But, I have the heart of a marshmallow, very sensitive, and I cry when I see an old lady struggle with her shopping. My watery Pisces Moon square the Neptune rising, and ruler of Ascendant in Pisces.

I'm told I am very 'feminine', not necessarily in a 'soft fluffy' type of way, more in a 'attractive' type of way, but inside, I guess it can be described as feeling like a 'strong' woman which in society can be termed as 'manly' in the traditional values type of way, though I very much feel womanly also. And the strength doesn't apply to everything, only things like making money for survival, finding work, going for my goals. Other things, I can turn to mush.

I'm composed of mostly yang energy.

Rising: Libra
Sun: Gemini
Moon: Pisces
Mercury: Gemini
Venus: Gemini
Mars: Taurus
Jupiter: Libra
Saturn: Libra
Uranus: Scorpio
Neptune: Sagittarius
Pluto: Libra
MC: Cancer

Of the 12 placements:

8 Yang/4 Yin. 7 is Air.


I look, sound, act, move in soft feminine ways. It's not until I open my mouth and say some of the most cut and dry, cold things that put people off. Majority of the time, men would get away with saying the things I say, but when I say it, it comes out as being too harsh and downright mean at times (even when I don't intend for it to be that way). Everything I read, like, think of, do, going to do, dream of, and even feel, is rooted in reality. Anything spiritual, emotional, imaginary really grosses me out big time and I pretty much shut myself off from that. I am very action oriented and like getting things out of way asap.

I'm not "nurturing," "sympathetic," and especially not "empathetic." I'm guilty of telling people to "shut up" if they're crying (even kids) because I think it's stupid and weak to be crying. I automatically dislike and don't respect anyone who shows lack of self-control i.e. emotional. I'm very rational and prefer to keep a good distance from people. Being close to anyone or having any sort of connection is intellectual. I rarely ever give any credence to emotional stuff as that's never been my strongsuit. I also am deeply competitive and like doing things to "win" even though there's no prize. The thing I love the most (aside from my cat) is freedom. Above all else, I must be free in order to operate at my best and I need a lot of space away from others. Being around people can really be taxing on me. Despite all this, I actually do have friends LOL yet they know better than emotionally spill on me. They do come to me with concrete problems which I can help them solve very quickly.

I do have a soft side... Pisces Moon does give me sensibilities for art and design but my creative outlets are rooted in reality as it's placed in the 6th house so I default to practical/useful arts such as sewing, commercial art (like advertising/PR), writing sales pitch, presenting research, etc. I reconstruct/redesign vintage clothes not just for fun, but to wear. I've made clothes for people that I really like. One of my "skills" that I monetize on is writing people's resumes. Although, I do design their resumes in an eye-catching way with colors and some graphics, my joy is really creating something that is purposeful. A long time ago, I wrote poetry for the heck of it and was pretty good. It actually moved people in my class but I hated "moving" people for the sake of "emotions" when I myself wasn't even feeling any of what I wrote as it all seem to be garage, so I quit. I found out, much later on, that I LOVE it when my work get people to buy stuff (I do advertising and e-commerce) and it's profitable. Also, 8th house Mars sextiles my 6th house Pisces Moon which actually makes me enjoy things a lot more when there's money involved. I like creating purposeful/useful things that puts out profit. To hell with fame (that's a 5th house thing), gimme money!

I think I'm fairly androgynous...

Scorpio Asc, Virgo Sun, Pisces Moon, Venus and Mars conjunct in Cancer, Mercury in Libra, Jupiter and Neptune in Capricorn, Saturn in Aries, Uranus in Aquarius (early), Pluto in Sagittarius (early).

I'm more self focused in general, but I love to talk whenever I find reason to. I definitely enjoy the company of females, but the few guys I'm friends with claim that I'm one of the guys (much to my own confusion). My appearance is generally androgynous and off-putting, so people get confused whenever they realize how emotional I really am. I'd say I'm nice little mix of everything, and I personally enjoy people with a more androgynous style/viewpoint on the world.

ASC Scorpio
Sun Gemini
Moon Aries
Mercury Gemini
Venus Taurus
Mars Cancer
Jupiter Aries
Saturn Sagittarius
Uranus Sagittarius
Neptune Capricorn
Pluto Scorpio
NN Aries
MC Leo

So most of my chart is in masculine fire, though most of my personal planets are in air and one in fire, but you can say it's fairly balanced out with one water and one earth. Despite all the masculine energy however, my ASC is in Scorpio, so I interact to the world through feelings and subliminal undercurrents, rather than taking things at face value, and I rely on my "feelers" to guide me through my life. Mars is my chart ruler, but it being in Cancer adds feminine energy again. The sensitivity of my ASC wants me to acquire security (feminine) with aggression (masculine). It's mutually receptive to Moon too.

When I was younger I was considered a "pretty boy". Gladly it has now turned to "handsome", but I do have a bit of androgyny about me. That is until you get to know my Moon. I don't have a "manly" walk, rather I walk like I'm "floating", I'm told. Yet at the same time it's not feminine, it's just... "proper". And very economical. And surprisingly fast to people who walk with me (I have a long gait).

I'm a definitely feminine man.

To begin with, my Sun is in Gemini. Being the Sun the very source of energy, the energy my Sun deliver to the rest of the chart is quite androgynous.

I don't have any planet in actual masculine sign. The closet to a planet in masculine sign are my three planet in Gemini (the Sun, Venus and Jupiter).

My Mars is in Cancer and widely opposed by Saturn in Capricorn.

My Asc is in Sagittarius, though.

greybeard said:

1. I do not have a monthly period (No, Virginia, there is no such thing as PMS.)

2. I can't carry a living, growing new life within my body (But what does that have to do with bonding anyway.)

3. I have invented probably 85% of the world's important inventions and an equal share of its creative art. (Women would have done this if only men didn't hog all the glory and weren't so oppressive. Besides, who wants to ride a stinky, mean old bull anyhow? That's funny, but men do [you know, that obnoxious macho kind of man] and women don't seem so inclined. Might this same trait have something to do with exploration and creativity?)

4. I have worked with women who were "one of the boys." They chewed tobacco and could spit as far as any man. They can buck hay, ride bulls, or drive trucks full of fresh food as well as any man. But a funny thing happens when we all go out for a beer after work and the guys trickle off to their homes and families, leaving us two alone -- she is no longer "one of the boys."

5. A friend of mine used to run a large beauty salon. Now and then she would call a staff meeting and tell her folks how it was going to be. She always preferred gay men to women on her staff, because the guys (gay though they were) simply accepted the new order of things and got back to work; the women would sit and argue about what was fair. There is a very clear and pervasive distinction between a man's and a woman's mentality.

6. Nothing I have said here is meant to imply that women are somehow inferior to men. The only thing said is "we are different." We have different roles to play on the stage of life. Why I should try to change my role into your role befuddles me.

7. 95% of all territorial conquests have been effected by women. I know there have been others, but Maxine Bell is the only woman I can think of who, of her own free will, stepped off into Terra Incognita with the express intention of exploring it. Please note that when she made up her mind to do so, no man attempted to dissuade her.

8. There is one very simple yet extremely powerful difference between men and women. Women do not have to hunt. All they have to do is BE, and the rest takes care of itself. A man, in the very nature of things, must hunt. If you don't know what I'm talking about you have never driven a taxicab on the wrong side of town.

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I feel like this comic might help you. (Source)