Boogy,
Thanks for chiming in! Just FYI, I couldn't see your chart using that link for some reason. Would love to look at it! I have Sun conjunct Uranus as well, but it's in the 4th... another water house...
hope this helps
The 12th can be a house of self undoing such as addictions, having secret enemies which are often just imaginary. It is the house of institutionalisations, spiritual aspirations and seeking to escape and transcend. It is also our karma and our uncles and aunts paternal. It is how we are when we are alone and in retreat.SniperBomber328,
What, other than the opinions of other astrologers, has lead you to believe that the twelfth house is a house of self-destruction?
Jupiter may be co ruler of the 12th but Neptune is the ruler. It can be a tough house to deal with and any misfortune is karmic in nature.The real question is, why are you clinging to the idea that the 12th House isn't so unfortunate? It's only because you wish it so.
Lets play spot the flawed logic. I'll give you a hint: A=B=C.
Thanks Carris. Very interesting chart. Odd that astro.com didn't display the quincunxs but they are most definitely there and in orb. It may be because it's the simplified chart from astro (not from the extended selection). The Saturn Venus opposition is very tight. However, the Merc and Neptune oppositions to Saturn appear out of orb on this chart (may find aspects here checking declinations). I find it interesting your Sun is conjunct the descendant. Jupiter conjunct NN in Cap explains a lot as well.StillOne
I have attached my chart.
Hi Carris, you bring up some interesting points. Some which I haven't contemplated before. I do very much enjoy talking about deeper subjects due to Merc in Scorpio (hence why I'm on this board I suppose ). Yes, possibly due to Gemini being the 12th cusp that I feel the need to try and understand it's nature. Possibly also the tight quincunx between Mercury to the Moon in the 12th makes me want to relate to the 12th. I don't consider my Merc unaspected, it may be powerful... but I have much to learn still. My hobbies/interests are of the nature that can't be mastered in a lifetime completely.Thanks StillOne
I guess our 12th in gemini makes us want to communicate about 12th house matters - and analyse it - and bring some intellectual thinking to it. Do you think that your 12th ruler mercury near the 5th cusp makes spirituality a hobby or interest for you? While mercury in scorpio would make you want to delve deeply and intensely into the subject. Mercury is quite unaspected in your horoscope - is that supposed to make it very powerful?
Sun conj uranus is supposed to give you a talent for astrology and metaphysics - and in the 4th maybe its where your roots are - or its right where your comfort zone is - and you practice such astrology in a balanced (libran), intellectual (air sign), and new (cardinal sign) way.
I think the NN in Capricorn is pointing to a disciplined destiny. One of the devout. I'd say that Jupiter only expands this here. You may find your relationships/partnerships revolve around this but I'm unsure since NN in Cap tends to be more solitary.I haven't really been able to understand what jupiter conjunct NN would mean - does it mean my karmic task in this lifetime is to take responsibility (capricorn) for partnerships (7th) in a spirit of generosity (jupiter)? I don't see it happening in my life. Also I read and believe that the sun's position shows where we struggle to achieve, consciously. At the cusp of the 7th do I struggle with partnerships? No more than normal, I think - its more to do with my saturn opp venus by which any kind of relationship does have a difficult quality.
SniperBomber328,
What, other than the opinions of other astrologers, has lead you to believe that the twelfth house is a house of self-destruction?
SniperbomberSorry for such a late response Reverie, I have not had the time to log onto Astro Comm. for a while. Nonetheless, the reason I have stated the 12th House is of "self-destruction" is because of the usual tendencies the 12th house imposes on the native. It is called the house of "self-undoing" for a reason, and not in the 'positive' or 'spiritual' sort of way.
It's the house of prisons, hospitals, institiutions, graveyards, monasteries, etc. The things people end up doing to themselves which cause harm to either the self (native) or to others. Which is why I said that the malefics (specifically Saturn) could joy here, since the 12th dimminishes the 'malefic tendencies' that saturn can impose on the native, although it increases the harm that it does to others.
Also the reason I stated why Jupiter and Venus are not so bad being here (aside from the fact that Jupiter co-signifies the 12th House and Venus Joy's here) since they technically do not harm the native or others, from what I've read.
IMO, what MSO has stated about the A=B=C statement, and correct me if I'm wrong, is the same meaning of 1st=Mars=Aries formula. Which isn't true. Which is the point I think he was trying to make, when he/she (sorry I don't know) was stating that the 12th isn't about 'spirituality', simply because Pisces denotates this archetype. The 12th cannot be about spirituality, because it is already goverened by the 9th house (in trad. astrology). Jupiter=/=12th=/=Pisces. Although it has been stated several times, that the planets still find co-significance in the houses corresponding to their sign number division (if that makes sense).
Its not how one would explain something from a Saturnine standpoint. But if someone had saturn in the 12th, which signifies organized ambition, maybe their socio-linear track could feel imprisioned outside of it.
I have Mars and Chiron in the 12th in Gemini. I can see its immense healing potential, and its immense destructive potential. The mars is in oppositions with Uranus, Neptune, Saturn in the 6th.
That is probably why Monastaries (clergymen) and (prisoners) are both part of this group, its more of a force rather than an attribute. In a way the prisoner understands the clergymen in a fashion that ordinary people can't.
Sorry for such a late response Reverie, I have not had the time to log onto Astro Comm. for a while. Nonetheless, the reason I have stated the 12th House is of "self-destruction" is because of the usual tendencies the 12th house imposes on the native. It is called the house of "self-undoing" for a reason, and not in the 'positive' or 'spiritual' sort of way.
It's the house of prisons, hospitals, institiutions, graveyards, monasteries, etc. The things people end up doing to themselves which cause harm to either the self (native) or to others. Which is why I said that the malefics (specifically Saturn) could joy here, since the 12th dimminishes the 'malefic tendencies' that saturn can impose on the native, although it increases the harm that it does to others.
Also the reason I stated why Jupiter and Venus are not so bad being here (aside from the fact that Jupiter co-signifies the 12th House and Venus Joy's here) since they technically do not harm the native or others, from what I've read.
IMO, what MSO has stated about the A=B=C statement, and correct me if I'm wrong, is the same meaning of 1st=Mars=Aries formula. Which isn't true. Which is the point I think he was trying to make, when he/she (sorry I don't know) was stating that the 12th isn't about 'spirituality', simply because Pisces denotates this archetype. The 12th cannot be about spirituality, because it is already goverened by the 9th house (in trad. astrology). Jupiter=/=12th=/=Pisces. Although it has been stated several times, that the planets still find co-significance in the houses corresponding to their sign number division (if that makes sense).