Crazy making feelings... how to untangle the karmic loop?

Looking for insight on this relationship with a friend that I'm in love with. It has been on-going for 3 years, very intense relationship, felt like we knew each other for ages from the start, triggers trauma wounds. They hide their feelings and communication is strained, I must press them for info. We have both sustained trauma in our lives and our attachment styles are at odds. We are currently in a phase of estrangement. This cycle keeps happening and I wish to understand why. This time my health has taken a drastic turn, and I believe the grief and anger about this, plus the issues our relationship brings up for me, has been internalized. I'm having severe dental problems and going into surgery to remove teeth.

I don't have their exact birth time, but I have entered their chart based on what I suspect their moon/rising could be.

I noticed three double whammies (Mercury trine mercury -- Venus oppose venus -- Uranus square Moon), but there are other aspects in two-way communication, or "karmic" signifiers, etc. I feel the Neptunian influence very strongly and it messes with my ability to interpret consistently and accurately. The subtle influences feel very palpable and the relationship is full of lost words.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately I couldn't read this chart. It's very small, and when I enlarged it I lost the resolution. Please leave out the asteroids, at least for round 1, and just use the default aspect lines. They kind of clutter up the chart. And make sure we can read the numbers of the degrees, please.

Hi Waybread! Thank you for the welcome and reply. I've uploaded a version of the chart with the orb table as well the composite chart. Many thanks for your help!

Sorry, I'm not trying to delay things, but it would be helpful to learn your gender and his/her gender. Mars, Venus, and sometimes the moon can get a different reading, depending. For trans people, I would just suggest using the gender they feel themselves to be.

I'm not the person to ask about karma. I think the chart gives us enough to talk and think about regarding this life. Sometimes encounters feel fated, but this doesn't necessitate some kind of past life connection. IMHO.

It's interesting how the composite chart reflects your first post. The 12th house is the house of secrets. Chiron conjunct sun suggests that the identity of the relationship (sun) carries with it a lot of emotional pain. Chiron can confer compassion and wisdom if we stay open to those wounds, but its initial impression is usually painful.

The vertex sitting on Saturn-Pluto suggests a more somber and fated quality to the relationship.

Jupiter in the composite 7th house is normally really beneficial; but Uranus in the 7th typically makes for sudden endings and beginnings. If Uranus can be used in its more positive nature (liberation, openness to new ideas, a break with a difficult past) that seems more empowering than a pattern of closeness and estrangement.

You mention the other person as a "friend," but isn't s/he something more to you? Your composite has a nice moon-Venus sextile, which suggests feelings of affection.

Wow thank you for this insight! This is great info to work with.

Thanks for your sensitivity around gender issues! I am a queer female, and other person is gender non-conforming. However biologically they are female.

We were close friends. Forgive me if you are experienced with these types of relationships yourself, but IME some queer friendships transgress the boundaries and expectations found in hetero friendships; the element of "chosen family" also fosters an intensity and intimacy. Also this person has helped me a lot in terms of recovery from substance abuse. Our friendship started on a heavy note, they supported me in a way I had not experienced before. It was not in a program or anything but they were there for me through the changes. Subsequently I hinged a lot of my identity and worth to this person supporting me and loving me despite my flaws. But we both have underlying trauma that sometimes makes relating a challenge, as our needs are very different. I've wondered wheather I was also compelled to this person as an almost proxy -- my suspicion is that I was initially attracted to it to "heal" or transform wounding from early experiences (i have c-ptsd). The chiron link you mention is very interesting. Their chiron is lit up when I look at the aspects. This person has also said they felt "compelled" to get to know me.

I am totally sexually attracted to them. My suspicion is they feel some attraction in return, and intuitively know that I'm in love with them. But we have avoided this topic. I used to feel it was a matter of time before we were sexual, but I don't believe that anymore. They are in an open relationship, and I am good friends with their partner, in fact I like them very much. Taking it to another level would be too complicated and hurtful for everyone, I think. I am happy just being friends but that doesn't even seem like an option any more.

I wish i knew more about what they are experiencing, how they felt about me, because they are not forthcoming with the emotions unless it comes to a crisis point.

Ah, ok as I review the post now I'm a little confused. The aspects you mention in the composite are rather part of my natal chart (12th house sun/chiron, saturn-vertex-pluto, uranus in 7th, moon-venus sextile). I am inclined to think that makes them reflections of my inner nature, rather than the relationship?

hi roulotte

looking for insight on this relationship with a friend that I'm in love with. It has been on-going for 3 years, very intense relationship, felt like we knew each other for ages from the start, triggers trauma wounds. They hide their feelings and communication is strained,

the aspect that really triggers these type of dynamics is the vertex/mars conjunct which are in turn conjunct the descendant.
the vertex on the descendant always gives a feeling of other worldly influences affecting the relationship. very often you both have had very strange and unequal experiences that though you are different people ,have had the same paranormal affect . the vertex can be thought of as a "karmic" factor but the karma and energy of the vertex are not limited to human consciousness. so the energies,in this case her energies because of the conjunction to the vertex will always have an edge to them.

this is a very difficult aspect for a relationship because the energies of the vertex can lead to repulsion as well as attraction.much of the karmic energy of the vertex does not apply to you or she, yet the strangely karmic feelings will affect both of you.

so you have a very difficult realtiojnship because there can be so much confusion in tyou unusual gender assignments and there is also a "objectuve" psychihc/karmic energy running through the relationship at the same time

rahu

Wow thank you. This is enlightening. I don't know much about Vertex so will do some reading. Is there anything you recommend in particular?

So then on our synatry chart, their vertex is conjunct my mars, as well the asteroid I share a name with (same degree); the vertex is also opposite my Jupiter and Uranus. My vertex (and Saturn, and Pluto) conjuncts their Pluto. I also noticed my vertex trines their moon, and their moon is square to my vertex. I am beginning to understand how certain laborious themes get activated in this relationship. I assume the "crisis" states I routinely experience must be activated by transits? The thing is, I think they go through something intense too, I'm just too embarrassed to ask, in case it's all in my head.

I appreciate what you say about psychic/karmic energy. I'd like to read more about this too. I have felt there is almost a telepathic cord. I have "vision" dreams that leave me feeling off or even changed. In person we can communicate without words. I have always wondered if they can access my thoughts... The repulsion and infatuation is absolutely accurate, and I feel it goes both ways.

Thanks for your thoughts. You have given me a lot to think about. If you see anything else in here I'm curious about it. I am still unclear why they choose to withdraw from me sometimes, and be very intimate other times. It's so inconsistent. I feel very unlikeable.

roulotte said:

Wow thank you. This is enlightening. I don't know much about Vertex so will do some reading. Is there anything you recommend in particular?

So then on our synatry chart, their vertex is conjunct my mars, as well the asteroid I share a name with (same degree); the vertex is also opposite my Jupiter and Uranus. My vertex (and Saturn, and Pluto) conjuncts their Pluto. I also noticed my vertex trines their moon, and their moon is square to my vertex. I am beginning to understand how certain laborious themes get activated in this relationship. I assume the "crisis" states I routinely experience must be activated by transits? The thing is, I think they go through something intense too, I'm just too embarrassed to ask, in case it's all in my head.

I appreciate what you say about psychic/karmic energy. I'd like to read more about this too. I have felt there is almost a telepathic cord. I have "vision" dreams that leave me feeling off or even changed. In person we can communicate without words. I have always wondered if they can access my thoughts... The repulsion and infatuation is absolutely accurate, and I feel it goes both ways.

Thanks for your thoughts. You have given me a lot to think about. If you see anything else in here I'm curious about it. I am still unclear why they choose to withdraw from me sometimes, and be very intimate other times. It's so inconsistent. I feel very unlikeable.

Click to expand...

appreciate what you say about psychic/karmic energy. I'd like to read more about this too. I have felt there is almost a telepathic cord. I have "vision" dreams that leave me feeling off or even changed. In person we can communicate without words. I have always wondered if they can access my thoughts... The repulsion and infatuation is absolutely accurate, and I feel it goes both ways




the vertex axis on the ascendant axis is a signature of a psychic/telepathic connection .vision dreams can also be elicited by the vertex. but as already mentioned, these affects can be very confusing because the vertex may bring visions or thoughts that don't directly pertain to you and she and so you may feel this energies are "scattered" rather than focused.
i will be away a couple of days but when i return will add some specifics insights to your relationship


rahu

Thanks for the explanation-- I can see now why you are using those pronouns.

I am a conventional heterosexual woman, but I can really see how changing gender identities today are putting conventional astrology's male-female assumptions on its head.

In relationships like yours, I think it makes more sense to think of Mars as the principle of pursuit; and Venus as the principle of attraction. In a romantic or sexual relationship, it's good to see A's Mars conjuncting, trining, or sextiling B's Venus, and vice versa.

I don't know which of you is on the inside or outside in the bi-wheel.

It looks like the inner "blue" person's Venus trines the outer red person's Mars, But the outer person's Venus does not aspect the inner "red" person's Mars. This can make for a one-sided attraction.

hi roulette

after analyzing your composite chart furniture ,i noticed that mercury is square to the node and the ascendant.
this shows the very intimate mental connection you have and it is also in itself an indicator of psychic/telepathic connections . so the phantasmagorical visions and feelings you have had are represented by the node conjunct the vertex and square to Mercury.

the mercury square usually shows that you were first attracted by your minds, though with mars conjunct the vertex your physical characteristics were also part of the attraction.

right off the bat, i don't thinkthis is a good relationship because para normal energies are so overwhelming that "normal " human emotional interactions will be difficult.

in addition ,the Uranus/Neptune midpoint is conjunct to the south/node and Jupiter. by itself this midpoint will give very intense inspirational feeling, grand visions and plans for the future, but these creative aspect will not likely come to pass. instead there will be broken promises and lack of effort to reach these very inspired goals.

this is a really amazing composite but with Jupiter conjunct the south node, it most likely will degenerate into control issues and abusive mental tendencies. Jupiter though a benefic influence with the south node can turn into a terrible tyrant when the accumulations of negative psychic powers occurs.. such as here.

the mars/venus midpoint is square to the node/Uranus midpoint so the intense physical attraction and passion is clearly indicated. but with Uranus is in the mix ,the intensity will not last and when the physical senses are satiated, i sudden breakup is sure. it think the crazy off and on feelings she is giving out shows that this point has been reached.. that is the intensity is now leading for constant problems as a prelude to breaking up.

i just don't see any chance this chart will normalize to the degree you could have a satisfying "real" relationship with her.

rahu

Hi waybread! Thank you for the reply and thoughts! I am the inner blue chart. Yes, that's how it's felt, one-sided. I get confused because sometimes this person comes at me with extremely intimate gestures, they throw me off. It's just too inconsistent which sets off my insecurity and attachment issues. I was not sure if a mars-venus aspect is felt by both sides or just the mars. thank you for your insight.

Hi Rahu, i really appreciate your insights. i'm still heartbroken over this and how to process that it is an impossibility. yes there are control issues and abusive mental tendencies on my end. i feel manipulative trying to get my drives met, i feel they are manipulative too but in an avoidant way. i go through these waves, where i can and then cannot accept that this is a toxic relationship. it was a sudden break this summer. we have had our ups and downs but after all the retrogrades this summer, i'd just had enough. still, i struggle every day with not engaging and trying to "fix" it. i know it can't be fixed. I *don't* know how to let go. emotionally I can't walk away, though i have done so physically. i am still tangled in the heart.

is there any indication of past life "baggage" i should look into?
i felt from our first meeting that we had known each other before. the cyclical nature of our relationship and psychic connection makes me also wonder if there is karma informing the dynamic, and how i can get it right, in this life, to stop the cycle.

i notice that lilith is so part of the vertex/mars/ascendant dynamic.
this shows that your feelings are not only being driven by external emotional/psychic stimulus but these feelings rising up through you subconscious feelings. this might describe why you are having difficulties,these feeling are coming from your "heart", so to speak and you can't manage the way this is making you feel.


the mercury/node square doesn't help to get past this because your and her thoughts are so in synch.


the only option i can see is too date someone else.



rahu