Hi folks-- so, I'm not going to express myself well or be able to give this topic the sensitivity it deserves, but.... how do you explain victimhood (def: a person who has been harmed or injured by another or external event, *type A and type B) in a chart?
Mostly people come to an astrology forum because they're unhappy or mightily bothered by something. We don't see OPs stating, "I'm really popular, happily married, and rich: how do you explain that?"
Usually we see people who are truly lonely, upset at how their lives have gone, financially broke, and so on. Sometimes their conditions are only temporary, sometimes they seem to be life-long. In reading horoscopes, our commitment is to be helpful to them: but sometimes this seems impossible.
*Type A: People who have a strong, objective case for being a victim: an abused child, a war or famine refugee, a persecuted religious minority.
*Type B. People who feel victimized by events that happen to a majority of people in one way or another: a bad break-up with a lover, few friends, a feud with a family member, unemployment, low self-esteem.
These categories are not entirely discrete: sometimes people whom I would classify as objectively victimized have a positive can-do attitude towards life, sometimes turning their personal tragedy into a positive commitment to help others in a similar situation. Sometimes a lonely person seems deeply committed to sustaining an unhappy isolation vs. trying to improve her situation.
Sometimes "victims" simply want us to tell them when the stars will hand them a desirable mate, clear out their debts, or hand them a job. Sometimes with no thoughts that we can be the authors of our own misfortunes, in which case, there's more inner work to be done. They don't want an astrological truth that might suggest there's no job or mate in sight.
I stress that people with a mental health condition, like clinical depression, are kind of a special case. They cannot "think" themselves happy, but oftentimes they can mitigate their condition with medication, therapy, or self-help activities like yoga. Also, an addict by definition cannot "think" himself out of an addiction.
What is your take on the problem? Do some people choose to understand themselves as victims rather than taking positive steps toward to improve their lives in ways consistent with their horoscopes? If so, are they actually an opening for astrological advice on how to improve their situation? If so, how would you express your advice such that the person is open to your horoscope reading?
What would be the horoscope placements for self-defined victims, if any?
Neptune? Chiron? Saturn?
Your thoughts?
So this is an interesting topic so I must have something to say about this. I haven't done enough research about this but I have done some research nonetheless and have come to some conclusions but don't take my word for it because again it's not like I did a research study.
I'm going to start off with talking about Type A. Type A in my opinion is Saturn but saturn isn't really physical or sexual abuse. It's prolonged period of utter pain. This is poverty, major depression(that causes insomnia, not just suicidal ideation), and major disability. Saturn is not pain and transformation, it's prolonged karma. Moon-saturn indicates depression. And let's say you are not "depressed." You will have other ways in which you'll experience this sort of morbid nothingness that saturn brings.
There was this case, look it up with this hitch hiker kidnapped, turned into a sex slave and locked into a box when she wasn't being used by the husband of the couple who kidnapped her. Look up girl in the box. She surprisingly didn't have any pluto links like I thought she may have, she had moon conjunct saturn. Pluto and other dark entities are painful, yet chaotic and dramatic and stimulating. Saturn is like entering a dark void you can't get out of. Saturn also has a lot to do with BDSM and bondage. The actress for fifty shades is a triple capricorn. Saturn doesn't get enough credit for its kinkiness. Uranus and Pluto usually is known to be the kinky ones. So saturn is likely to be poverty, disability, prolonged boring soul-sucking pain, and major depression and torture.
Second type I will talk about is: Any type of abuse whether it is emotional, sexual, physical, domestic, and love-related. These type of people attract chaos and drama into their life. And usually they have very dynamic auras, and lots of creative energy they haven't learnt to utilize inviting a sort of carthasis. Some of this creative energy, you can classify also as sexual energy.
To understand this you need to understand duality. People that attract these situations to them the most either have very light energy or repressed unacknowledged dark energy.
Light energy(indigos, kind souls)-neptune, pisces, venus in the picture will help as it will make you more attractive to people but think of light energy as predominantly neptune. However, Venus is also creative energy but venus ALONE doesn't attract abuse, it only attracts attention.
Dark energy-Scorpio/8th house energy/Pluto, Black Moon Lilith and from my research Algol. There are other very dark entities that I haven't researched very much and they are Eris, Kali, Persephone etc.
Neptune allows people to project their fantasies onto neptune and they can make others see whatever it is they want them to see. Neptune is fluid, it can merge and empathize, and it is extremely compassionate. It is the higher octave of venus who is also kind but is not as empathetic. So a lot of the times, these people do in fact attract predators who prey on their feminine allure and vulnerabilities.
An example of this is Marilyn Monroe-she had neptune conjunct her ascendent and in aspect to her sun. Mars also quintile her neptune. This girl got raped at an orphanage and got sexually abused/harrased in most of her foster homes. The girl wasn't plutonic, but did have BML in her 1st house.
Now let's talk about the repression of dark energy. Plutonic energy usually creates the psychologist, sergeon, dark artist, rape victim, obsessed lover, sorcerer or serial killer archetype. The thing here is using your energy in a way that will have the most DRAMATIC effects. All of these archetypes but the victim does passionate and transformative work. Their work defines who they are. They're passionate about something. It's the HEALTHY use of their sexual energy.
The victim that gets abused represses this energy, usually religiously and often disowns this energy altogether. Eg. There was a time when I was so ashamed I was into the occult, mystery and even astrology. I would erase all of my google searches. But of course you know the drill, transformative situations in my life made me own these parts again. Again, this doesn't justify or call for victim blaming, we are socialized in a way that makes us repressed some parts of us. It's not our fault.
An example of this is the Black Dhalia case. She had moon conjunct pluto. Her father wronged her and didn't really like her. After he invited her back into his life(he faked his suicide during her childhood and later sent her a letter and invited her to live with him), he threw her out for being lazy. She was a struggling actress and wasn't really doing much with her life. So the fact that she wasn't properly utilizing her potential, this sort of energy meant that she had to face it in other ways and put in the right transit, and you have a famous murder.
Black moon lilith operates like pluto to an extent. They say lilith has all sorts of energy from pluto, venus, uranus, neptune, and mars(I've heard she has the energy of all five of these planets). If there's any truth to this, this means there's a lot of dark sexual and attractive energy in the individual. This of course causes extreme reactions in people. So let me demonstrate how scary this entity can be.
this is from darkstar astrology:
Drew Barrymore (97’) Actress; tasted Liliths forbidden fruit from childhood, smoking aged 9, alcohol abuse and snorting coke at 13 and an attempted suicide. Uninhibited with her body, she has exposed her breasts frequently in public and on talk shows. Drew is estranged from her father. One of her most famous roles is the negative spurned Lilith in the shape of a manipulative teen seductress in Poison Ivy. Drew has defined her sexuality thus “Being with a woman is like exploring your own body, but through someone else. When I was younger I used to go with lots of women. Totally. I love it”. ~ The Guardian
Connie Francis (104’) Singer; suffered under her dominant Italian father and endured abuse in some of her 4 marriages and eventually had a breakdown. She was raped and beaten after a performance so she became a recluse for 7 years. Her father put her in exile once more by committing her to a mental hospital due to severe depression. Years later she had a further psychotic episode and was once again institutionalised, this time put under guardianship (Sun). She came thought it all, successfully returning to shine once more as a singer.
Steven Spielberg (73’) as a young Jewish boy often found himself an outcast and bullied by older males “In high school, I got smacked and kicked around. Two bloody noses. It was horrible.” ~ New York Times. His blockbuster films reflect the themes of alienation. Interestingly in his family settings, the father is often absent. River Phoenix (84’) was a dedicated environmental activist and won a humanitarian award. It has been suggested that the drug abuse, which resulted in his untimely death may have been a result of suffering abuse at the hands of a religious cult to which his parents were at one time missionaries. Eve Sedgwick (38’) felt the ugly duckling within her good-looking family so she escaped into the intellectual world and made her name in “Queer studies”. She then became a self-professed “gay studies guru, who happens to be a heterosexual woman married to her fella”. Eve had both Mean & True Lilith conjunct the Sun.
valerie solanas-author of SCUM manifesto(society for cutting up men)-she was raped by her father when she was younger. She had a lot of lilith aspects, you can find her chart on astrotheme if you google her.
Jodie foster and Drew berrymore has lilith on the MC. Jodie foster had a fan obsessed with her who tried to shoot raegen. Girls with Prominant lilith placements to sun, ascendent and MC have this strong in their identity and for them to own their lilith, first there needs to be a catharsis. Keep in mind, although Jodie foster didn't experience abuse(not that I know of), she did act in the Accused(a movie where she was shown getting raped) again replicating the theme of destructive sexuality and how sex can be used for power and destruction. Drew, again was talked about but also keep in mind this theme of how sex can be used for power can be seen in her movie "poison ivy."
Anyways keep in mind, the three different types of lilith can be manifested in different flavours. Black moon lilith being the most refined but still chaotic as these two women expressed this theme of sex and power through art.
As you can see there is a common theme here with lilith. Feminine destructive sexuality. Lots of sexual/kundalini energy and they can be magnetic and provoking even if they are not pretty. And often, family members especially males can have a huge problem with this chaotic energy and can abuse and use this individual as a scapegoat. The person is too dark and yet free for family members to handle and that's apparent in the case of Drew Berrymore. And BML, the most refined out of the three is associated with neptune, so again you also have projection with the combination of scorpio like energy. Think of BML as the ultimate transpersonal body, three in one.
I know it's a lot of information to take in. It's kind of complicated but hang on here.
Last but not least, I don't know how important this is. I want to talk about algol. They say moon with algol people die a painful death. Don't know how true that is. Linda Lovelace who was a pornstar forced to do the most horrific acts ever has moon conjunct algol. Carrie fisher also has this conjunction and she suffered from bipolar disorder but also keep in mind, as she was the daughter of an actress, she may have been safer than linda lovelace.
Moon conjunct Algol :
Pier Poalo Pasolini (00’); Italian film director, poet, visionary, writer, intellectual. Openly gay in 1940. His work was highly contraversial and critical of consumerism. Brutally murdered by being run over many times by a car. Christine Keeler (05’); British showgirl who brought down the British government. Darkstarastrology.com bought (06’). Patricia Highsmith (17’); Novelist of psychological thrillers. Alcoholic. Seen as hard and cruel or being great fun with a dry, biting with depending on the friend. Bi-sexual never married. Carrie Fisher (30’); “Princess Leia” in Starwars. Bi-polar with alcohol and drug addiction. Peter Sellers (44’); Depressive and insecure behind his roles. Erratic behaviour was esacerbated by alcohol and drug use. Baby Azaria Chamberlain; Stolen by a dingo out in the Australian bush. Kate McCann; Three year old daughter went missing from hotel room. Linda Lovelace; **** star who later said she was forced into it by her pimp husband. Sid Vicious/Nancy Spungen Davison Chart; Herion addiction, alleged death pact between them. With North Node. Mick Jagger.
Anyways, algol like lilith can be dark feminine destructive/creative energy. Pluto of course is very similar. There was another article on algol but I can't find it right now.
Algol 26º ~ “Violent death or extreme sickness. If also in no aspect to a benefic, or there is no benefic in the 8th house, and the dispositor of the Sun in a day nativity or if the Moon in the night one is in square or opposition to Mars, the native will be beheaded; if the luminary culminate he will be maimed, mangled, wounded or torn to pieces alive; and if Mars is at the same time in Gemini or Pisces his hands or feet will be cut off.” [4] “To passionately link oneself to an idea of cause, to destroy or create, to seek the edge of chance. Knowing no limits to ones desire for intensity.”
So this is even more intense and dangerous than pluto. Again this is just a quote from a website that has worked for me in the past. No proof or sufficient resarch.
