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Unread 01-27-2012, 04:01 PM
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The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Which planet influence makes someone 'more' astrologer?
Is it the investigator Pluto, who is interested in mystical things, or is it uranus?
For which reason is being an astrologer uranus - related?
And which placements makes someone more or a better astrologer?
Is it pluto in 3rd house?
Jupiter in 8th house?
Aquarius on cusp of seventh (which is better: aquarius on ascendant or on descendant?)
Pluto and Uranus in aspect to the sun?

Which are other aspects and configurations that show or you are a good astrologer or not?


Last edited by fullmoonlibra; 02-01-2012 at 06:46 AM.
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Unread 01-27-2012, 06:09 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Mercury is the traditional ruler of astrology. To most modern astrologers (so far as I know) Uranus is the modern ruler of astrology.

On the other hand, watery moons seem common among astrologers, though not 100% (which nothing is in astrology.) The Ebertins believed 27 degrees Leo or Aquarius showed up in a lot of charts.

If you go to the Astro-DataBank at www.astro.com you can find a lot of astrologers' horoscopes. I think they are all over the place. If you see a pattern of signature, please let us know!
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Unread 01-27-2012, 08:10 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

I think in practise Pluto is the astrologer's planet, rather than Uranus. That is the impression I often get.
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Unread 01-27-2012, 08:57 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Mercury is the traditional ruler of astrology. To most modern astrologers (so far as I know) Uranus is the modern ruler of astrology.

On the other hand, watery moons seem common among astrologers, though not 100% (which nothing is in astrology.) The Ebertins believed 27 degrees Leo or Aquarius showed up in a lot of charts.

If you go to the Astro-DataBank at www.astro.com you can find a lot of astrologers' horoscopes. I think they are all over the place. If you see a pattern of signature, please let us know!
That's interesting. I have Moon in Scorpio and Sun at 27 degrees Aquarius.

I have a very strongly placed Uranus and an angular Pluto. I think that they each contribute something to my involvement with astrology. Actually, I think my Uranus side tries to control my Plutonian side through astrological study. But I also feel that my Plutonian fascination with the hidden side of life is also very much part of the picture for me. I think a Uranian person would just have a different approach to astrology than a Plutonian person, but neither is necessarily better than the other. Since we all have both planets anyway, its probably more a case of which one takes the lead in defining why we value astrology.

From what I've seen, airy people are more likely to get interested in astrology.

Uranus is connected with astrology because Uranus symbolises the urge to understand the principles which underlie manifest form. Such understanding opens us to ideas which are not circumscribed by our current ways of living, and so astrology enhances the potential for Uranian liberation and progress.

I don't think that there is any particular aspect that makes anyone a better astrologer necessarily. It is an art that we all approach as individuals. Any astrologer could point to features of their chart that they value more than others with regard to practising astrology, but ultimately bringing out the best in every part of the chart is the way to become the best one can be, whether this involves practising astrology or not.

I quite like my Mercury in Aquarius trine Uranus as I feel it working when I'm looking at charts. But if I'm honest, I think it holds me back from developing a more intuitive and empathic approach. Nothing in excess, as the Ancient Greeks used to say.
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Unread 01-28-2012, 06:26 AM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

I go with Mercury and Uranus: anyone with both planets strong, elevated, will have a "native feeling" for astrological activities IF they begin to investigate this field, and are disuaded from doing so by outside pressures/influences...
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Unread 01-28-2012, 09:53 AM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Interesting..
Well I must say, the last time I started to know astrology was ten years ago, and after knowing more about transits I got scared and stopped learning more.
During last summer I started to search astrological stuff again, out of nothing..
And I came to know that the sudden interest again might be the influence of Uranus transit conjunct natal Mercury in 8th house
It's a wonderful effect and studying astrology again is not the only thing that has a magical touch in my life many more things happened under this transit..
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Unread 01-29-2012, 01:10 AM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra View Post
Which planet influence makes someone 'more' astrologer?
Is it the investigator Pluto, who is interested in mystical things, or is it uranus?
For which reason is being an astrologer uranus - related?
And which placements makes someone more or a better astrologer?
Is it pluto in 3rd house?
Jupiter in 8th house?
Aquarius on cusp of seventh (which is better: aquarius on ascendant or on descendant?)
Pluto and Uranus in aspect to the sun?

These are all stuff I have in my chart.

Which are other aspects and configurations that show or you are a good astrologer or not?
Uranus is the planet of astrological science and it has to be well aspected to make a good astrologer along with perhaps connection to Jupiter for universal truth, Pluto for investigation of the mysterious and the hidden. Aquarius on the 7th can lead to astrological consultations.
I have Uranus sextile Sun and trine Jupiter in the 8th. I have North node conjunct Uranus in Gemini. Nothing in Aquarius or the 11th. I have been an astrologer for 30 years and it is my path according to the nodal placement. There is no connection with Mercury whatsoever and it is the lower vibration of Uranus rather.
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Unread 01-29-2012, 01:17 AM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

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Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra View Post
Interesting..
Well I must say, the last time I started to know astrology was ten years ago, and after knowing more about transits I got scared and stopped learning more.
During last summer I started to search astrological stuff again, out of nothing..
And I came to know that the sudden interest again might be the influence of Uranus transit conjunct natal Mercury in 8th house
It's a wonderful effect and studying astrology again is not the only thing that has a magical touch in my life many more things happened under this transit..
I did what you did and got frightened of having too much knowledge and of the negative kind. As we mature we learn to handle negativity in a more positive way and even the most challenging aspect can be turned for good. If you have a connection to Uranus from Mercury natally then for sure. Astrology is really for the mature and any one under 29-30 I dont teach and is not really ready to handle the enormous power of being an experienced astrologer which takes many years. I started learning at my first Saturn Return but left it for years and returned when I was much older and now I enjoy it immensely and yes we do have to handle bad times
but if we know it is ultimately for a reason, then it can be more easily endured and understood.
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Last edited by Claire19; 01-29-2012 at 01:19 AM.
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Unread 01-29-2012, 01:23 AM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
I go with Mercury and Uranus: anyone with both planets strong, elevated, will have a "native feeling" for astrological activities IF they begin to investigate this field, and are disuaded from doing so by outside pressures/influences...
Mercury is essentially neutral and takes on the flavour of the other planets connected to it. So with Uranus yes it would lead to astrological studies. I have Uranus in Gemini and well aspected and have been an astrologer for many many years.
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Unread 01-29-2012, 01:40 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

I think that astrological wisdom can be used creatively by most people before they reach their Saturn return. But I also can see that before the Saturn return people are more likely to worry about what fate has in store - the Saturnian self-determination isn't so established. But then some people are still prone to paranoia around certain transits way beyond their 30's. It's ironic that the astrological tools which could potentially illuminate their fears as being highly subjective become a way of validating the fears themselves.

I would say that there is very definitely a correspondence between Mercury and astrology. I don't think any planet is neutral and just a blank slate for the energies of those planets which aspect it, but I can see how the adaptability of Mercurial energy could do be viewed this way up to a point. When I see a comment like the one Claire 19 made about Mercury being neutral (including when I myself have such thoughts) I often wonder where the planet is in the person's chart. Clare? I haven't looked systematically through the charts of astrologers, but I'm sure that a well aspected Uranus wouldn't be in evidence in all cases.

Looking at the charts of different astrologers could be useful from the point of view of seeing whether we gravitate towards the approaches and teachings of astrologers who have similar themes in their charts to those in our own charts.
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Unread 01-29-2012, 02:07 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Could an 8th house Pluto or a Pisces rising explain an inclination towards astrology?

If Neptune transits the 12th house, would an interest in astrology be developed?

It is true that there are some transits I am dreading such as Pluto opposing my Sun late in my life, but somehow I'm not so scared about my Saturn return in 2017-2018 because I want to make sure to have good karma and work hard to reap rewards. Saturn opposing Uranus was scary in itself though...

With astrology I have become more afraid of some transits, but at the same time, I'm not as shocked by circumstances. When Pluto exposes corruption, I'm less shocked than if I did not know about astrology.

I am learning to focus on positive transits as well though.
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Unread 01-29-2012, 07:08 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuusha View Post
Could an 8th house Pluto or a Pisces rising explain an inclination towards astrology?

If Neptune transits the 12th house, would an interest in astrology be developed?

It is true that there are some transits I am dreading such as Pluto opposing my Sun late in my life, but somehow I'm not so scared about my Saturn return in 2017-2018 because I want to make sure to have good karma and work hard to reap rewards. Saturn opposing Uranus was scary in itself though...

With astrology I have become more afraid of some transits, but at the same time, I'm not as shocked by circumstances. When Pluto exposes corruption, I'm less shocked than if I did not know about astrology.

I am learning to focus on positive transits as well though.
Hi Yuusha

An 8th house Pluto needs to delve into the unknown in search of new and transformative experiences. While astrology in itself tends offer a detached way of looking at things rather than being a direct route to the kind of intense experiences suggested by this placement, it could well provide an appetite for anything which helps to explain that which is hidden. Astrology perhaps provides signposts along the paths into the unknown, and these signposts could be welcomed by the part of the '8th house Pluto person' that is eager to explore the unknown and also welcomed by the part of her/him that feels afraid of being overwhelmed.

Something that hasn't come up on this thread yet is the prominence of Sun Neptune aspects, and a strong Neptune generally, in the charts of astrologers. Similar to the way in which astrology helps to describe Pluto's terrain, it also does the same with Neptune's realm. The yearning for something more than seems to be available on the material plane can also inspire an interest in astrology. So Pisces rising and a transit of Neptune through the 12th house could both manifest as an interest in the maps which astrology provides.

The transit of Pluto square my Sun when I was about 23 was a very difficult time for me, as was Transiting Neptune conjunct my Venus a few years before that. But I don't think they would be anywhere near as difficult if I experienced them now. In fact I just had transiting Neptune conjunct my Sun for the last couple of years and it was fine. I think the transit of Pluto opposite your Sun is unlikely to be as difficult as you imagine it might be if it is occurring later in your life. You have plenty of time before then to gradually unfold your solar light so that there is not so much transformation left to take place during that Plutonian process.

In the case of this transit, the collective survival needs symbolised by Pluto will be manifesting through themes associated with the sign through which Pluto is transiting. Your Solar sense of self will be challenged to incorporate into your personal creative self-expression something of this emerging energy of the opposite sign. And this process will somehow parallel your own personal journey to become more fully yourself. Expressing any sign in a healthy way involves honouring the values of the opposite sign. So you could see this transit as, in part at least, a test of whether your Sun sign is manifesting in an extreme manner which does not incorporate the values of the opposite sign.

We all have our favourite kinds of transits, but another way to look at transits is not that some are positive and some are negative, but that each transit has positives and negatives. Pluto transits can be very absorbing and passionate experiences. And I'll bet many an exam was failed on the back of a complacent Jupiter transit.

It sounds as though you can see the positive side of Saturn transits, which many find difficult. Perhaps you're no stranger to hard work and self-sufficiency already and so Saturn is familiar to you. But perhaps Pluto's world feels very threatening because it seems to alien and unpredictable and nihilistic ???

Yes, Pluto is very good at exposing corruption, which is great when it involves the government. But I guess it's not so comfortable when it exposes the attempts of a corrupt ego to manipulate perceptions and control that which threatens its status quo. (I'm talking about human beings in general here, of course, and not just you).
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Unread 01-29-2012, 07:38 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

miquar and others

i am just seeing this thread now... waybread mentioned 27 leo/aquarius which was an idea that ceo carter floated.. now miquar is mentioning sun/neptune aspects which also happens to be an idea that ceo carter also suggested! don't know if ya'll knew that..

mercury/uranus aspects is another popular idea and the connection of uranus to astrology yet another...

i think it takes all kinds of people, regardless of whether they have any of these popular signatures in a chart.. i have a whack of astrologers charts in my database and while i have never tried running it through statistical analysis to try to isolate a dominant theme, i think a lot of them are drawn to astrology for a lot of different reasons..

i happened to note sun/moon = neptune on some of them, but it is really not a thorough research on my part..dr farr has this as do i fwiw... this is an area many wouldn't even be looking at as well unless they had a strong interest in midpoints.. there are so many ways to research in astrology to find an astrological basis for things and unfortunately astrology is in it's infancy with regard to research as i see it..

presently i have t uranus on my mercury while my chart has a wide trine between the 2- 4 degree orb.. it becomes much closer (1 degree) if you combine helio to geo positions, but this is yet another unorthodox technique that pat davis developed of combining geo and helio positions when looking at charts.. isaac starkman does this a lot - an astrologer in tel aviv who runs the polaris software an astro program designed for rectifying charts..

anyway, this is a fun area to consider.. i think uranus and pluto represent very very different energies.. liz greene did a cool book on their differences that i recall reading many years ago - can't remember the title.. i don't like the idea of having to pick one to connect with astrology! i think it depends on what you are doing with the astrology i suppose..
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Unread 01-29-2012, 07:53 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Yes, what you are doing with the astrology and why. The only book I can think of by Liz Greene that deals specifically with Uranus and Pluto (and also Neptune) is THE OUTER PLANETS AND THEIR CYCLES.

I have Saturn on my Sun/Moon midpoint, and my Saturn is in Taurus - probably not the most common significator for an astrologer!
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Unread 01-29-2012, 07:58 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

hey miquar - that suggests you will approach everything with a higher level of responsibility and maturity and not be fuzzy headed like me!
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Unread 01-29-2012, 11:01 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Mercury is the traditional ruler of astrology. To most modern astrologers (so far as I know) Uranus is the modern ruler of astrology.

On the other hand, watery moons seem common among astrologers, though not 100% (which nothing is in astrology.) The Ebertins believed 27 degrees Leo or Aquarius showed up in a lot of charts.

If you go to the Astro-DataBank at www.astro.com you can find a lot of astrologers' horoscopes. I think they are all over the place. If you see a pattern of signature, please let us know!
There wont be a pattern or signature as with most things in astrology. There are certain planets and connections but it all varies as we are all unique beings. Watery moons lead to psychic matters and the metaphysical and hence may stir an interest in astrology for prediction.
Aquarius in astrologers' charts is apt but Leo has nothing to do with it, in any degree as a sign. The Ebertins did not see many thousands of astrologers' charts is my bet and making a statement like that is just spurious.
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Unread 01-29-2012, 11:06 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

for the record - the 27 aq/leo was mentioned by ceo carter, not the ebertins as i recall... ceo carter had a few spots highlighted with characteristics associated...
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Unread 01-30-2012, 02:54 AM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Carter's "Encyclopedia of Psychological Astrology (a now neglected work, but which is of masterpeice quality) has numerous "degree area" affinities, discovered by Carter (and the members of the London School of Astrology during the 1930-1960's era) through research during those decades.
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Unread 01-30-2012, 11:04 AM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Quote:
Uranus is the planet of astrological science and it has to be well aspected to make a good astrologer along with perhaps connection to Jupiter for universal truth, Pluto for investigation of the mysterious and the hidden....

There is no connection with Mercury whatsoever and it is the lower vibration of Uranus rather.


Without Mercury, we'd never learn to read and relate anything to anything.
It is Mercury's Gemini intellect and Virgo ability towards logical reasoning (of symbolism??) that feeds the beginning of Jupiter's knowledge, that
Jupiter is then able to go beyond and expand upon. Saturn joins in, does its work, and makes/provides mastership of the knowledge

Uranus is associated with the natural laws of nature. There is a natural
rhythm in/to all that pertains to manifested life.

Now: As part of the teaching I underwent, we were told that each planet is like a stepping stone. When you have mastered the one, you move on to 'the vibration' in the following. This means that, in their sequence, Uranus follows Saturn (after crossing the Chiron 'bridge' ?). If planets aren't 'mastered' as per intent, they can cause friction within the individual.

Saturn represents the limits of reality of manifestation. It is also the protection and limits of endurance of the physical body....i.e. the outer skin...as well as the cause/effect of physical disorders within it!

I always wonder what it is about Uranus that makes many astrologers want to make, claim, and adhere to it as part of them. I also wonder why many astrologers with this idea are therefore still confronted with physical illnesses for a lot of their life after they have become astrologers.
My theory is, that they haven't fully mastered their own Saturn and its meaning/implications/consequences in their life. Otherwise, Uranus's 'enlightenment' and ' all knowing' would supply the answer to their further Earthly problems and they would no longer undergo the mundane things like sickness, would they???? Thinking further, how does the move onto the further 'stepping stones', as per Neptune and Pluto, relate to this as far as their 'positive' influences apply?

My own 9th house Mercury makes no natal aspect to 12th house Jupiter. Is that perhaps the reason for me, even with Uranus, ruler 6th house,
conjunct Gemini MC on the 10th house side, why I still only consider myself as a student of astrology, with so much more still to learn than I can ever know. Uranus is still a long way out of reach to me.
My health is pretty good nowadays, however, so maybe I'm heading towards the bridge of change?
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Unread 01-30-2012, 07:55 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Mercury is the traditional ruler of astrology: take it or leave it!

Wondering where the idea of the 27th degree of Aquarius or Leo came from, I checked out the Ebertin family of astrologers on the Astro-DataBank at Astrodienst.

Turns out:

Baldur Ebertin (Reinhard's son) has no planets at 27 degrees Leo or Aquarius, but a watery moon (Cancer.) Mercury retrograde in Leo, Uranus in Aries makes a close square to his Cancer sun.

Reinhold Ebertin's sun at 26 Aqu 48'; which may be where Carter picked up on the idea of 27 degrees Aqua/Leo. Uranus (Sag) and Mercury (Pisc) are engaged in a T-square with Pluto. Moon in Capricorn.

Elisabeth Ebertin (Reinhold's mom) had her sun at 23 degrees Taurus, and moon in Cancer. Her MC at 25 Aqua 34' may have been considered close enough to 27 degrees Aquarius to count. Mercury in Taurus makes a close-ish trine to Uranus in Virgo.

I didn't look at midpoints, for which Reinhard Ebertin was famous; but I imagine we would pick up a few more "hits" that way. And of course, far more midpoints somewhere else.

C.E.O. Carter's Venus was at 26 Aqua 04', which was probably close enough to count. His sun conjunct Mercury in Aquarius trined Uranus in Libra, with the sun-Uranus contact within a degree. His moon was in Taurus.

I sleuthed onward!

Alan Leo's ascendant was at 27 Leo O3. His Saturn was at 27 degrees Leo. His Leo sun-Jupiter-Mercury stellium sextiled Uranus in Gemini. Moon in Aries.

Sepharial's (Walter Gounod's) Venus was at 28 Aqua 43, probably close enough to count. It formed a wide-ish sextile to Uranus in Gemini. Uranus square sun in Pisces. Mercury in Pisces, Moon at 22 Leo is probably too wide to count.

Evangeline Adams had no direct hit on the 27 Aqua-Leo axis, although her Aquarius sun-Pisces Mercury midpoint might be counted. Mercury makes a wide trine to Uranus in Cancer. Moon at 21 Leo is probably too wide to count.

So I can see why Aquarius-Leo might have seemed like hot stuff to astrologers in the early-mid 20th century. Watery moons were in the minority with this tiny, non-representative sample.
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Unread 01-30-2012, 08:29 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Hi Frisiangal. I just wanted to say for beginners that while Uranus may reflect the archetypal structures that underpin the manifest universe, it does not have anything to do with natural rhythms in the sense of birth and death, or Spring Summer Autumn Winter, etc. Just wanted to clarify that for anyone who is just learning about Uranus. I know you're probably well aware of it yourself.

Interesting way of seeing the planets, I thought.
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Unread 01-30-2012, 08:41 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Hi Waybread. Great detective work. That phrase 'I can see why Aquarius Leo might have seemed like hot stuff to astrologers in the early-mid 20th century' got me thinking. I wondered if there were significant of cycles of pairs of transiting planets starting (conjunctions) and culminating (oppositions) along the 27 degree Leo Aquarius axis. Its not a scientific analysis by any means, but here's what I saw on the graphic ephemeris:

All of the following pairs of planets either conjuncted or opposed one another within one degree of 27 Leo/Aquarius during the year(s) stated, except where I state that the aspect took place further from the axis. Some involve multiple hits on the degree due to retrogradation. I just used Jupiter outwards, and the (True) Nodes.

1905 Nodes Saturn
1919 Saturn Uranus
1927 Jupiter Neptune
42/43 Nodes Chiron 2 degrees away
55/56 Jupiter Pluto
1960 Chiron and Uranus were both stationary at the same time at 26 and 27 degrees
1961 Nodes Uranus
1962 Jupiter Uranus
1979 Jupiter Nodes

Didn't go any further. I don't know what the statistical probabilities are of this happening, but I suspect that there are very few points (if any) in the Zodiac that can boast so many oppositions and conjunctions of these planets during that time.

Just thought I'd throw it in for food for thought...
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Unread 01-30-2012, 09:07 PM
sandstone sandstone is offline
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

waybread,

the "close enough to count" may not have been applicable according to carter... once you open up the orb to a degree or 2 on either side of the 27 leo/aqu one will essentially have 6 degrees out of the 360, which seems like a small enough fraction, until you factor in a minimum of 7 planets (traditional or 10 modern) and 2 angles, which technically give at least 18 (or 24) points, since we are looking at an opposition, as opposed to only one point... if you include the outers, or chiron and etc, the points just add up to a bunch of mushy data as i see it.. this is one reason i am reluctant to use data like this to make connections with degrees of the tropic zodiac... one has to ask does 27 relate to 26.01 to 26.59, or does it relate to 27.00 to 27.59? folks looking at this data in a serious manner need to take this into consideration as well, else it remains mushy info as i see it..

so many interesting conclusions could be made just looking at the ebertin families data which is rated A, or AA by rodden as well..

miquar - that is an interesting consideration as well... what happens when the info is collected on astrologers from a different century for example? to me there are built in weaknesses to research if a number of considerations are not taken into account.. this would be another one of them.. we need carter to explain how he came up with the idea, but he isn't around to tell us.. one makes the assumption it is based off the collected charts he made over the course of his life, but that might be wrong...
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Unread 01-30-2012, 10:06 PM
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

Good points, sandstone! Once we open up a delineation too much, it just starts to occupy too much real estate around the horoscope. On the other hand, possibly less than 2 degrees on either side of 27 degreeswould be valid if it came up a lot; but then you would also have to test non-astrologers to see whether astrologers have this type of placement at a level significantly higher than the general population.

Haave you ever heard of the "astrologer's degree"? I forget if it is 14 or 11 degrees Virgo.

Interesting, miquar!
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Unread 01-30-2012, 10:14 PM
sandstone sandstone is offline
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Re: The astrologer: uranus or pluto?

it is 11 virgo and it is more of the same... now we have 4 x (11virgo/pisces or just virgo?), instead of 2 if you think 27 leo/aq is an astrologers degree.. i just think the idea of latching onto a degree point to define an activity or occupation is very tenuous at best!
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