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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 05-12-2019, 01:44 AM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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A few questions about the planets

Which of the following is true?

- Mars in a women's chart represents the ideal male for her.

- Venus in a mans chart represents the ideal female for him.

- Venus in everyone's chart represents their own approach to relationships.

- Venus is the planet of women, the alpha-female, feminineness, the traditional stereotypical wife role, sensuality in general, material values, love, fragility, others, amiability, weakness, niceness, submissiveness, gentleness, tameness, calmness, possessions, fairness, the damsel in distress archetype and agreements.

- Mars is the planet of men, the alpha-male, masculinity, the traditional stereotypical husband role, fights, aggression, inability to submit, untameability, anger, strength, self, disagreeability, personality, identity, impulsiveness, character, the warrior archetype and willpower.

- Saturn is the planet of the traditional father archetype/role, authority, pain, suffering, method, structure, concentration, difficulty, challenges, perseverance, discipline, maturity, politicians, business, reality, harshness, status, progression, cruelty, duty, punishment, trials, work in general, conformity, the status-quo, public status/reputation, slowness, discomfort, bad-fortune, insensitivity, and work-life.

- Moon is the planet of the traditional mother archetype/role, family matters, emotions, intuition, nourishment, comfort, sensitivity, and home- life.

- Sun is the planet of the traditional child role, drama, play, fun, games, and ego.

- Jupiter is the planet of the traditional king archetype/role, law, morality, religion, justice, expansion, broadness, joviality, foreign travels, humor, benevolence, good-fortune, and philosophy.

- Neptune is the planet of the traditional martyr archetype/role, illusions, imagination, confusion, compassion, sacrifices, isolation, loneliness, and endings.

- Uranus is the planet of the traditional rebel, revolutionary archetype/role, radicalness, humanitarianism, revolution, eccentricism, inventions, societal unification, and non-conformity.

- Mercury is the planet of the traditional genius archetype/role, logic, rationality, thinking, wit, quickness, nervousness, communication, electronics, siblings, organization, analyzation, and details.

- Pluto is the planet of the traditional phoenix (that rises from the ashes), dominance, intimacy, power, obsession, sex, reproduction, occult, secrets and hidden things, and death followed by regeneration.


Last edited by YonyGursho; 05-13-2019 at 10:58 PM.
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Unread 05-13-2019, 10:24 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: A few questions about planets

Are we allowed to answer "all"?
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Unread 05-13-2019, 01:34 PM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: A few questions about planets

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Are we allowed to answer "all"?
Of course.
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Unread 05-13-2019, 02:45 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post


Which of the following is true?

- Mars in a women's chart represents the ideal male for her.

- Venus in a mans chart represents the ideal female for him.

- Venus in everyone's chart represents their own approach to relationships.

- Venus is the planet of women, the alpha-female, feminineness, the traditional stereotypical wife role, sensuality in general, material values, love, fragility, others, amiability, weakness, niceness, submissiveness, gentleness, tameness, calmness, possessions, fairness, the damsel in distress archetype and agreements.

- Mars is the planet of men, the alpha-male, masculinity, the traditional stereotypical husband role, fights, aggression, inability to submit, untameability, anger, strength, self, disagreeability, personality, identity, impulsiveness, character, the warrior archetype and willpower.

- Saturn is the planet of the traditional father archetype/role, authority, concentration, difficulty, challenges, perseverance, discipline, maturity, politicians, business, reality, harshness, status, progression, cruelty, duty, punishment, trials, work in general, conformity, the status-quo, public status/reputation, slowness, discomfort, bad-fortune, insensitivity, and work-life.

- Moon is the planet of the traditional mother archetype/role, family matters, emotions, intuition, nourishment, comfort, sensitivity, and home- life.

- Sun is the planet of the traditional child role, drama, play, fun, games, and ego.

- Jupiter is the planet of the traditional king archetype/role, law, morality, religion, justice, expansion, broadness, joviality, foreign travels, humor, benevolence, good-fortune, and philosophy.

- Neptune is the planet of the traditional martyr archetype/role, illusions, imagination, confusion, compassion, sacrifices, isolation, loneliness, and endings.

- Uranus is the planet of the traditional rebel, revolutionary archetype/role, radicalness, humanitarianism, revolution, eccentricism, inventions, societal unification, and non-conformity.

- Mercury is the planet of the traditional genius archetype/role, logic, rationality, thinking, wit, quickness, nervousness, communication, electronics, siblings, organization, analyzation, and details.

- Pluto is the planet of the traditional phoenix (that rises from the ashes), dominance, intimacy, power, obsession, sex, reproduction, occult, secrets and hidden things, and death followed by regeneration.
Astrologers have different opinions dependent on perspective
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part II - Seven Stars

Saturn completes 2 sidereal cycles and 57 synodic cycles with 59 years.
It has retreating arcs of 7 degrees for 140 days.


Saturn is cooling and moderately drying, malefic, masculine and diurnal.



Phainon makes those born under him dark-skinned, robust, black-haired, curly-haired, hairy-chested, and with eyes of moderate size, middling stature, having excess of cold and moist when morning rising, and dark, slender, small, straight-haired, with little bodily hair, rather graceful, black-eyed, having excess of cold and dry when evening rising, and in general, annoying, concealing, avaricious, ignorant, consistent, reserved, petty, malicious, having many anxieties, throwing themselves down, fond of solitude, deceitful, downcast, hypocritical, squalid, clothed in black, deviant, importunate, sullen and miserable. Saturn controls depressions and sluggishness, obstacles in business, interminable lawsuits, subversion of action, secrets, restraints, imprisonment, grief, accusations, tears, being orphaned, captivity, haunting, farmers, gardeners, workers of property, managers, seafaring and waterside trades, tax collectors, the elders, violent action, guardianship, great reputation, notable ranks, lands, administration of that which belongs to others, fathership of the children of others, bachelors, widows, childlessness, violent deaths by water, strangulation, dysentery, falling on the face, injuries and lower respiratory infections, the skeletal system, the lymphatic system and the immune system, building materials like wood and stone, lead, dark colours and astringent tastes. It chronocrator over late old age up to death.

Jupiter completes 6 sidereal cycles and 65 synodic cycles with 71 years.
It has retreating arcs of 10 degrees for 120 days.


Jupiter is heating and moderately moistening, benefic, masculine and diurnal.



Phaethon makes those born under him light, of good colour, moderately curling hair, large eyes, tall, commanding respect, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and light, with lank hair, bald in the front and on the crown, with average stature, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, cooperating, distinguished, advising, truthful, beneficent, efficient and outgoing. Jupiter controls begetting of children, childbirth, faith, love, desire, alliance, knowledge, justice, friendship with great men, prosperity, payments, large gifts, abundance of profits, governments, honours, authority over temples, arbitration of disputes, brotherhood, fellowship, inheritances, adoption, fidelity, the livelihood of the father, confirmation of good things, deliverance from bad things, freedom, entrustments, treasures, stewardship, athleticism and zealotry, the reproductive system, the digestive system, the integumentary system, sacred objects, tin, brilliant colours and sweet tastes. It is chronocrator over early old age up to the 68th year.

Mars completes 42 sidereal cycles and 37 synodic cycles with 79 years.
It has retreating arcs of 16 degrees for 72 days.


Mars is burning and drying, malefic, masculine and nocturnal.


Pyroeis makes those born under him red and white in complexion, tall, robust, gray-eyed, with thick hair, somewhat curly, having excess of hot and dry when morning rising, and red, of middle height, with small eyes, not much hair on the body, straight yellow hair, having excess of dry when evening rising, and in general, natural, grim, resourceful, passionate, drinking, turbulent, relentless, challenging and confident. Mars controls force, wars, robbery, screams, violence, the loss of property, whoring, banishment, exile, alienation from parents, captivity, corruption of women, abortions, sexual intercourse, the loss of good things, lies, vain hopes, violent theft, banditry, plundering, disputes between friends, wrath, fighting, verbal abuse, hatred, lawsuits, shouting, violent murder, slashing and bloodshed, attacks of fever, boils, burns, imprisonment, torture, courage, false oaths, wandering, decoration of clothing, excelling at villainy, those who work with fire and iron, artisans, masons, leadership, military service, high-ranking officers, soldiers, supremacists, hunting, wine, falling from heights and four-footed animals, poor vision, apoplexy and falling on the back, the muscular system, the urinary system, the lower gastrointestinal tract, weapons, iron, reddish colours and acid tastes. It is chronocrator over late adulthood up to the 56th year.

Sun completes sidereal cycles with 365.25636 days and anomalistic cycles with 365.25963 days.


Sun is heating and moderately drying, common, masculine and diurnal.



Sun makes those born under him with brightness, fine figure and manly eyes, having excess of hot. Sun controls action, light, kingship, leadership, high priesthood, reputation, authority over the masses, high rank, the mind, motion, loftiness of fortune, dealings with the gods, judgement, providence, friendship, the father, public matters, honours consisting of images, statues and garlands, the circulatory system, the nervous system, the eyesight, especially the right eye, wheat and barley, gold, bright colours and bitter tastes. It is chronocrator over early adulthood up to the 41st year.

Venus completes 8 sidereal cycles and 5 synodic cycles with 8 years.
It has retreating arcs of 15 degrees for 40 days.



Venus is moistening and moderately heating, benefic, feminine and nocturnal.



Phosphoros makes those born under her shapely, graceful, effeminate, with bright beautiful eyes, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and plump, luxurious, olive in complexion, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, admired, passionate, wealthy, gracious, outgoing and friendly. Venus controls desire, love, priesthood, public benefactors, wearing of golden crowns and ornaments, merriment, friendship, companionship, acquisition of additional property, buying maidens and ornaments, agreements on favorable terms, marriages, refined arts, pleasant sounds, music-making, sweet singing, beauty of form, painting, mixing of colours, embroidery, purple-dyeing, perfume making, inventors, the masters of crafts, working with gold and precious stones, haircutters, cleanliness, plays, the supervisors of markets, weights, measures, trades and shops, giving and receiving, laughter and rejoicing, order, aquatic animals, the livelihood of the mother, assistance from women, remarkable reputations, nourishment and pleasure, the olfactory system, the reproductive organs, the secondary sex characteristics, multi-coloured adornments, precious stones, golden colours and greasy tastes. It is chronocrator over youth up to the 22nd year.

Mercury completes 46 sidereal cycles and 145 synodic cycles with 46 years.
It has retreating arcs of 12 degrees for 20 days.


Mercury is alternating between moistening and drying, and common.



Stilbon makes those born under it sallow, of moderate height, graceful, with beautiful eyes, moderately curling hair, having excess of moist when morning rising, and light, with straight hair and olive complexion, lean and spare, glancing brilliant eyes, somewhat ruddy, having excess of dry when evening rising, and in general, youthful and athletic, articulate, versatile, intelligent, tricky, busy, curious and efficient. Mercury controls law, intelligence, speech, reason, commerce, youth, education, writing, games, disputation, brotherhood, interpretation, messengers, numbers, calculation, geometry, deception, theft, community, exercise, service, profit, inventions, attendance, athletics, wrestling, hearing, declamation, certification, supervision, weighing and measuring, testing coins, versatility, critical thinking, judgement, marketing, banking, temple builders, modelers, sculptors, doctors, teachers, lawyers, orators, philosophers, architects, musicians, diviners, dream interpreters, sacrificers and augurs, astrologers, prophets, braiders, weavers, weight lifters, gamblers, mimes, sleight of hand, methodical work, military strategy, labour contracting, rhythmic performance, authority, luxury, renting, display of public service, irregular and disturbed outcomes with malefics, the vestibular system, the gustatory system, the auditory system, currency, copper, varied colours and pungent tastes. It is chronocrator over childhood up to the 14th year.

Moon completes sidereal cycles with 27.32166 days and anomalistic cycles with 27.55454 days.
Ascending Node completes retreating sidereal cycles with 18.61295 years.


Moon is moistening and moderately heating, benefic, feminine and nocturnal.



Moon makes those born under her white, with fine figure, beautiful eyes, having excess of moist. Moon controls life, light, kingship, the household, high priesthood, affluence, gathering of the masses, foresight, the body, travel, fortune, appearance, outcomes, possessions, cohabitation, housekeeping, gains and expenditures, cities, assemblies, ships, the mother and the conception, the respiratory system, the upper gastrointestinal tract, the eyesight, especially the left eye, glass and reflection, silver, white colours and salty tastes. It is chronocrator over infancy up to the 4th year.

Sun rules day, Moon rules night, Jupiter and Venus are good, Saturn and Mars are bad, but these are so-held. For the Sun is not Predominator during day, nor is the Moon during night, when the Lightbringer is inoperative, while the other Light is operative. For the favorably placed malefics become moderately benefic, and the unfavorably placed benefics become moderately malefic.

Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 05-13-2019, 07:10 PM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: A few questions about the planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Astrologers have different opinions dependent on perspective
"Saturn completes 2 sidereal cycles and 57 synodic cycles with 59 years.
It has retreating arcs of 7 degrees for 140 days.


Saturn is cooling and moderately drying, malefic, masculine and diurnal.



Phainon makes those born under him dark-skinned, robust, black-haired, curly-haired, hairy-chested, and with eyes of moderate size, middling stature, having excess of cold and moist when morning rising, and dark, slender, small, straight-haired, with little bodily hair, rather graceful, black-eyed, having excess of cold and dry when evening rising, and in general, annoying, concealing, avaricious, ignorant, consistent, reserved, petty, malicious, having many anxieties, throwing themselves down, fond of solitude, deceitful, downcast, hypocritical, squalid, clothed in black, deviant, importunate, sullen and miserable. Saturn controls depressions and sluggishness, obstacles in business, interminable lawsuits, subversion of action, secrets, restraints, imprisonment, grief, accusations, tears, being orphaned, captivity, haunting, farmers, gardeners, workers of property, managers, seafaring and waterside trades, tax collectors, the elders, violent action, guardianship, great reputation, notable ranks, lands, administration of that which belongs to others, fathership of the children of others, bachelors, widows, childlessness, violent deaths by water, strangulation, dysentery, falling on the face, injuries and lower respiratory infections, the skeletal system, the lymphatic system and the immune system, building materials like wood and stone, lead, dark colours and astringent tastes. It chronocrator over late old age up to death.

Jupiter completes 6 sidereal cycles and 65 synodic cycles with 71 years.
It has retreating arcs of 10 degrees for 120 days.


Jupiter is heating and moderately moistening, benefic, masculine and diurnal.



Phaethon makes those born under him light, of good colour, moderately curling hair, large eyes, tall, commanding respect, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and light, with lank hair, bald in the front and on the crown, with average stature, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, cooperating, distinguished, advising, truthful, beneficent, efficient and outgoing. Jupiter controls begetting of children, childbirth, faith, love, desire, alliance, knowledge, justice, friendship with great men, prosperity, payments, large gifts, abundance of profits, governments, honours, authority over temples, arbitration of disputes, brotherhood, fellowship, inheritances, adoption, fidelity, the livelihood of the father, confirmation of good things, deliverance from bad things, freedom, entrustments, treasures, stewardship, athleticism and zealotry, the reproductive system, the digestive system, the integumentary system, sacred objects, tin, brilliant colours and sweet tastes. It is chronocrator over early old age up to the 68th year.

Mars completes 42 sidereal cycles and 37 synodic cycles with 79 years.
It has retreating arcs of 16 degrees for 72 days.


Mars is burning and drying, malefic, masculine and nocturnal.


Pyroeis makes those born under him red and white in complexion, tall, robust, gray-eyed, with thick hair, somewhat curly, having excess of hot and dry when morning rising, and red, of middle height, with small eyes, not much hair on the body, straight yellow hair, having excess of dry when evening rising, and in general, natural, grim, resourceful, passionate, drinking, turbulent, relentless, challenging and confident. Mars controls force, wars, robbery, screams, violence, the loss of property, whoring, banishment, exile, alienation from parents, captivity, corruption of women, abortions, sexual intercourse, the loss of good things, lies, vain hopes, violent theft, banditry, plundering, disputes between friends, wrath, fighting, verbal abuse, hatred, lawsuits, shouting, violent murder, slashing and bloodshed, attacks of fever, boils, burns, imprisonment, torture, courage, false oaths, wandering, decoration of clothing, excelling at villainy, those who work with fire and iron, artisans, masons, leadership, military service, high-ranking officers, soldiers, supremacists, hunting, wine, falling from heights and four-footed animals, poor vision, apoplexy and falling on the back, the muscular system, the urinary system, the lower gastrointestinal tract, weapons, iron, reddish colours and acid tastes. It is chronocrator over late adulthood up to the 56th year.

Sun completes sidereal cycles with 365.25636 days and anomalistic cycles with 365.25963 days.


Sun is heating and moderately drying, common, masculine and diurnal.



Sun makes those born under him with brightness, fine figure and manly eyes, having excess of hot. Sun controls action, light, kingship, leadership, high priesthood, reputation, authority over the masses, high rank, the mind, motion, loftiness of fortune, dealings with the gods, judgement, providence, friendship, the father, public matters, honours consisting of images, statues and garlands, the circulatory system, the nervous system, the eyesight, especially the right eye, wheat and barley, gold, bright colours and bitter tastes. It is chronocrator over early adulthood up to the 41st year.

Venus completes 8 sidereal cycles and 5 synodic cycles with 8 years.
It has retreating arcs of 15 degrees for 40 days.



Venus is moistening and moderately heating, benefic, feminine and nocturnal.



Phosphoros makes those born under her shapely, graceful, effeminate, with bright beautiful eyes, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and plump, luxurious, olive in complexion, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, admired, passionate, wealthy, gracious, outgoing and friendly. Venus controls desire, love, priesthood, public benefactors, wearing of golden crowns and ornaments, merriment, friendship, companionship, acquisition of additional property, buying maidens and ornaments, agreements on favorable terms, marriages, refined arts, pleasant sounds, music-making, sweet singing, beauty of form, painting, mixing of colours, embroidery, purple-dyeing, perfume making, inventors, the masters of crafts, working with gold and precious stones, haircutters, cleanliness, plays, the supervisors of markets, weights, measures, trades and shops, giving and receiving, laughter and rejoicing, order, aquatic animals, the livelihood of the mother, assistance from women, remarkable reputations, nourishment and pleasure, the olfactory system, the reproductive organs, the secondary sex characteristics, multi-coloured adornments, precious stones, golden colours and greasy tastes. It is chronocrator over youth up to the 22nd year.

Mercury completes 46 sidereal cycles and 145 synodic cycles with 46 years.
It has retreating arcs of 12 degrees for 20 days.


Mercury is alternating between moistening and drying, and common.



Stilbon makes those born under it sallow, of moderate height, graceful, with beautiful eyes, moderately curling hair, having excess of moist when morning rising, and light, with straight hair and olive complexion, lean and spare, glancing brilliant eyes, somewhat ruddy, having excess of dry when evening rising, and in general, youthful and athletic, articulate, versatile, intelligent, tricky, busy, curious and efficient. Mercury controls law, intelligence, speech, reason, commerce, youth, education, writing, games, disputation, brotherhood, interpretation, messengers, numbers, calculation, geometry, deception, theft, community, exercise, service, profit, inventions, attendance, athletics, wrestling, hearing, declamation, certification, supervision, weighing and measuring, testing coins, versatility, critical thinking, judgement, marketing, banking, temple builders, modelers, sculptors, doctors, teachers, lawyers, orators, philosophers, architects, musicians, diviners, dream interpreters, sacrificers and augurs, astrologers, prophets, braiders, weavers, weight lifters, gamblers, mimes, sleight of hand, methodical work, military strategy, labour contracting, rhythmic performance, authority, luxury, renting, display of public service, irregular and disturbed outcomes with malefics, the vestibular system, the gustatory system, the auditory system, currency, copper, varied colours and pungent tastes. It is chronocrator over childhood up to the 14th year.

Moon completes sidereal cycles with 27.32166 days and anomalistic cycles with 27.55454 days.
Ascending Node completes retreating sidereal cycles with 18.61295 years.


Moon is moistening and moderately heating, benefic, feminine and nocturnal.



Moon makes those born under her white, with fine figure, beautiful eyes, having excess of moist. Moon controls life, light, kingship, the household, high priesthood, affluence, gathering of the masses, foresight, the body, travel, fortune, appearance, outcomes, possessions, cohabitation, housekeeping, gains and expenditures, cities, assemblies, ships, the mother and the conception, the respiratory system, the upper gastrointestinal tract, the eyesight, especially the left eye, glass and reflection, silver, white colours and salty tastes. It is chronocrator over infancy up to the 4th year.

Sun rules day, Moon rules night, Jupiter and Venus are good, Saturn and Mars are bad, but these are so-held. For the Sun is not Predominator during day, nor is the Moon during night, when the Lightbringer is inoperative, while the other Light is operative. For the favorably placed malefics become moderately benefic, and the unfavorably placed benefics become moderately malefic."

There are a quite few things I disagree with here.

  • Saturn = "father figure of other children".
I just don't see how this is Saturn and not some other planet. Saturn is authority, discipline, law, rules, order, tradition, work-life, suffering in general, trials and errors, failure and dishonor, hardships, work, business. Does all of that not sound like the familial father figure archetype to you?

If moon is mother figure, and represents home-life, and Saturn is opposite role of the moon, how is Saturn not then the familial father figure archetype?

After all, The traditional family archetype has the mom role who tends to the home and nurtures the family with care and emotion, whereas the dad role tends to the work-life/public-life, makes money and does the hard work (and this is no coincidence as Saturn = hard work), home-life/home-work (aka the moon) is gentle and easy, Saturn's role is the exact opposite, hard and gritty, the outside world which is nasty and cruel, this is why Saturn = discomfort and moon = comfort. This is why traditional and modern astrology agrees that moon/cancer = security and safety, as that's why the home is where we live, its our safest place to go and thus where we feel most comfortable and safe at, compared to everywhere else.

  • Jupiter = Love

Despite all of it's benevolent characteristics, Jupiter cannot possibly represent love. If anything that's venus, as venus is the planet of romance, relationships, others and not self, fairness, and value in general.

  • Sun = reputation, kingship, the mind, high priest-ship, authority over the masses, the father, public matters, the circulatory system, the nervous system.

How can sun represent reputation if our reputation is out status, and Saturn = status, and authority in general? Saturn's whole thing and theme is to work hard, which always yields top position results. This is due to the golden rule that the harder you work, the better the rewards. If this weren't true, there would be no balance of suffering.

Sun doesn't represent the mind, but rather ego (which is born from the mind). MERCURY represents the mind, as mercury = thinking, logic, rationality.

Sun doesn't represent kingship, aka kings in general, as that is ruled by Jupiter. Jupiter represents knowledge, benevolence, prosperity. Jupiter is authority in a moralistic way, which is kingship.

Thus, kingship = moralistic, benevolent authority, as a concept.

Where as sun isn't exactly authoritative, despite the fact that it possess a few authoritative like traits.

Saturn is authority in general/the face of authority/the meaning of the concept authority. It is Saturn's own unique character traits that give it this title. Kingship is different than authority in general, as kingship is a benevolent, jovial, happy authoritative theme, whereas authority in general (Saturn) is a serious and brooding authoritative theme.

Sun doesn't equal high-priest ship, or priestship at all, as the concept of priests is born from the concept of religion, and Jupiter = knowledge, and knowledge is what births religion. So Jupiter = priesthood, in any form, the sun does not.

Both Jupiter and Saturn represent authority over the masses, as Jupiter represents the concept of kingship/royalty and Saturn represents the very concept of authority itself. So sun doesn't represent authority as a concept, let alone authority of the masses.

Sun doesn't represent the father, the father role/figure is Saturn and I've already explained why above.

I would say both Saturn and Uranus = public matters, seeing as Saturn deals with the outside world/reality and Uranus deals with the collective masses/the public as a unified group/whole.


I don't see how sun can represent the circulatory system, although I do believe that it represents the heart, which pumps blood to the entire body, which does certainly imply it may have something to do with the circulatory system which is our blood and veins.


Sun certainly doesn't represent the nervous system, mercury rules the nervous system. Mercury is the planet of wit, restlessness, nervousness, thinking, the brain, quickness, and speed, so this is no coincidence.

  • Mercury = law
The law is = the very concept of rules, Saturn = structure, order, and discipline, discipline creates structure and structure creates order, and order creates rules. So Saturn is law, whereas Mercury = logic, which creates discipline/Saturn.

  • Venus = merriment, inventors
Venus cannot = merriment, as merriment = Jupiter, as Jupiter = benevolence, prosperity, happiness, optimism, good fortune, and joviality.

Venus represents pleasure, which is born from happiness (Jupiter).

Venus cannot = inventors, inventors = Uranus, because inventions are what is new, not old and conventional or traditional or normal (Saturn), and Uranus = rebellion, uniqueness, individuality, unorthodox-ness in general.

  • Mars = sexual intercourse
Mars cannot = sexual intercourse itself, as Pluto = sexual intercourse itself, because pluto = death and re-birth, death and re-birth most closely relates to the act itself of sexual intercourse, as sexual intercourse most closely relates to the reproductive organs and reproductive body parts.

If anything, Mars rules misusing the act of sex.

  • Moon = kingship, high priesthood, the body, fortune, travel, appearance, and possessions.
The moon has nothing to do with the concept of authority, other than the mother role which is very little power on the scale of authority in the natural course of things.

The moon is somewhat spiritual, but not enough so to be priest like.

The moon does not = as it simply has nothing to do with the body. If anything mars = the body, as mars = the self/the identity/the personality. More than that, the moon has nothing to do with materialism, which is ruled by the moon's opposite element, earth.

The moon does not = fortune, seeing as it has nothing to do with fortune as a concept or good fortune as a concept.

The moon doesn't = travel, as travel = Jupiter, because Jupiter = all things broad, largeness, expansion in general, expansion of horizons, where as the moon merely represents the mother role and the home-setting.

Jupiter rules, but ONLY rules, FAR from home-ness, and long-distance travels, whereas moon = at home.

The moon doesn't = appearance, as it does not have anything to do with it. Mars rules the identity and the self, and thus, the appearance.

The moon doesn't = possessions, possessions = venus, because venus rules values, dignities, fairness, judges, weighing of pros and cons, unbiasedness.
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Unread 05-13-2019, 08:32 PM
aldebaran aldebaran is offline
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Re: A few questions about the planets

I don't have an opinion about:

- Venus in everyone's chart represents their own approach to relationships.

I consider adequate, sometimes in a relative sense:

- Mars is the planet of fights, aggression, impulsiveness

- Saturn is the planet of concentration, difficulty, perseverance, discipline, harshness

- Moon is the planet of emotions

- Sun is the planet of ego. (I realized you put "self" on Mars, "self" might be one of the best attributes for Sun)

- Jupiter is the planet of expansion, broadness, foreign travels

- Mercury is *related to * logic, rationality, thinking, wit, quickness, nervousness, communication
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Unread 05-13-2019, 09:32 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post

There are a quite few things I disagree with here.

  • Saturn = "father figure of other children".
I just don't see how this is Saturn and not some other planet.

Saturn is authority, discipline, law, rules, order, tradition, work-life
suffering in general, trials and errors, failure and dishonor
hardships, work, business. Does all of that not sound like the familial father figure archetype to you?

If moon is mother figure, and represents home-life
and Saturn is opposite role of the moon
how is Saturn not then the familial father figure archetype?
Saturn is significator of the father for an adopted child
an adopted child experiences suffering due to not being with biological parents

Quote:
Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post


After all, The traditional family archetype has the mom role who tends to the home and nurtures the family with care and emotion, whereas the dad role tends to the work-life/public-life, makes money and does the hard work (and this is no coincidence as Saturn = hard work), home-life/home-work (aka the moon) is gentle and easy, Saturn's role is the exact opposite, hard and gritty, the outside world which is nasty and cruel, this is why Saturn = discomfort and moon = comfort. This is why traditional and modern astrology agrees that moon/cancer = security and safety, as that's why the home is where we live, its our safest place to go and thus where we feel most comfortable and safe at, compared to everywhere else.
you are entitled to your opinion
everyone has their own opinion
the following is an alternative perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

the Thema Mundi seems to belong only to the realm of traditional astrology
...but I wanted to post it here


For those who are unfamiliar with it
the Thema is mythically considered the chart of the world
and literally was historically used as a teaching tool for astrologers.

In it you can find the reasons for the domicile rulers, the exaltations
the planetary joys, the nature of the aspects, sect
...on and on it goes.

This pdf is a good starting point for understanding

http://www.azastrologers.org/Article...ThemaMundi.pdf

And here is one picture I found that graphically shows the Thema from the same pdf.


So, let's consider.

Most astrologers consider Aries to be the "natural" first house.
Why?

Cancer rises in the Thema Mundi
that would make Cancer the real "natural" first house
ruled by the Moon
and when we think of people.
..how we evolved out of the sea (water)
how we have always considered the Moon as the mother
...this makes sense to me.
Further, ancient astrology considered that the Moon did represent the body
...again this makes sense if cancer rises.

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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post


There are a quite few things I disagree with here.

  • Sun = reputation, kingship, the mind, high priest-ship, authority over the masses, the father, public matters, the circulatory system, the nervous system.

Sun doesn't represent kingship, aka kings in general...

.....sun isn't exactly authoritative, despite the fact that
it possess a few authoritative like traits.

............So sun doesn't represent authority as a concept, let alone authority of the masses.
keep in mind that
ours is a SOLAR system


planets ORBIT THE SUN

SUN alone determines whether it is Day or Night
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Unread 05-13-2019, 09:54 PM
YonyGursho YonyGursho is offline
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
keep in mind that
ours is a SOLAR system


planets ORBIT THE SUN

SUN alone determines whether it is Day or Night
That doesn't really serve as a symbolic representation of sun being the planet that represents authority over the masses. If anything, it's the character traits, dignities, and theme of the planet itself that determines if it's any sort of authority figure by the logical standards of the circle of life.
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Unread 05-13-2019, 10:02 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Saturn is significator of the father for an adopted child
an adopted child experiences suffering due to not being with biological parents


you are entitled to your opinion
everyone has their own opinion
the following is an alternative perspective
Well any input is nice and all and I have nothing wrong with hearing any feedback from you, but an opinion is just an opinion, perhaps you would be so kind as to explain a bit more as to why you believe cancer = the body/the identity over aries?

Because what you've written here doesn't explain much.

Also, you're wrong when you say one's moon = their mother. It is actually widely accepted and agreed upon by just about the entire astrology community that the condition of one's moon = their relationship with their mother or motherly figure.

Of course, I can see why one could get the misconception that one's moon = their mother, because after all, the condition of one's moon represents the relationship with their mother/motherly figure/figures, which reveals a lot about who said figures are as people.

Care to explain why you insist that Saturn = secondary father figure/role? I already explained why Saturn's entire character fits the biological dad role more than any other sign, yet you haven't given any proof of how the evidence I provided was flawed in any way.
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Unread 05-13-2019, 10:09 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post

That doesn't really serve
as a symbolic representation of sun being the planet that represents authority over the masses.
If anything, it's the character traits, dignities, and theme of the planet itself
that determines if it's any sort of authority figure
by the logical standards of the circle of life.
on the contrary

Sun is center of solar system
planets revolve around Sun
Sun is central authority
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Unread 05-13-2019, 10:13 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post


Well any input is nice and all and I have nothing wrong with hearing any feedback from you, but an opinion is just an opinion, perhaps you would be so kind as to explain a bit more as to why you believe cancer = the body/the identity over aries?

Because what you've written here doesn't explain much.

Also, you're wrong when you say one's moon = their mother. It is actually widely accepted and agreed upon by just about the entire astrology community that the condition of one's moon = their relationship with their mother or motherly figure.

Of course, I can see why one could get the misconception that one's moon = their mother, because after all, the condition of one's moon represents the relationship with their mother/motherly figure/figures, which reveals a lot about who said figures are as people.

Care to explain why you insist that Saturn = secondary father figure/role? I already explained why Saturn's entire character fits the biological dad role more than any other sign, yet you haven't given any proof of how the evidence I provided was flawed in any way.
on the contrary
much IS explained by the fact

that Sun is central
i.e.
obviously
planets orbit Sun


you are entitled to think otherwise
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Unread 05-13-2019, 10:31 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
on the contrary
much IS explained by the fact

that Sun is central
i.e.
obviously
planets orbit Sun


you are entitled to think otherwise
But that only describes the physical positioning and motion of the planets and bodies of our solar system, and as you have already agreed, it's the theme and character of the planet's that say most about what it is they represent. So how in the world does the mere physical spot the planets are in symbolically represent their character or have anything to do with their character? Because you are insisting you are right but have shown no evidence, only mere conjecture and theory.
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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But that only describes the physical positioning
and motion of the planets and bodies of our solar system, and
as you have already agreed, it's the theme and character of the planet's
that say most about what it is they represent.
So how in the world does the mere physical spot the planets are in
symbolically represent their character
or have anything to do with their character?
Because you are insisting you are right but have shown no evidence, only mere conjecture and theory.
Fact is
you have shown no evidence to the contrary that planets orbit Sun
you have shown no evidence to the contrary that Sun is central
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Unread 05-13-2019, 10:55 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Fact is
you have shown no evidence to the contrary that planets orbit Sun
you have shown no evidence to the contrary that Sun is central
You are ignoring what I just said.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 01:13 AM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

About kingship, I interpreted Greek Mythology, under a comparative with others, on this way,

Sun is the King of a traditional, old, respected Monarchy. It's glorious and celebrated, the responsibility over the Kingdom as a whole is at last upon Him, and on this sense he may have a strong power of decision - but it doesn't mean that he will be, pragmatically, who rules.
Many modern Monarchic Republics have a King as a symbol, that may renounce under difficult circumstances(like it was his fault!), even not having much power over state affairs.

Métis represents the council of wise people. They are the people that are able to govern wisely.

Jupiter is more like an elected leader, that has a lot of expansive ideas and behavior, perhaps a bit populist, and that is the "leader" - not the administrator really.

The Sun is symbolically the King of the Kingdom/State. The Ancient, traditional Kingdom/State. Jupiter is the leader of a certain "project" that is being implemented.

The Sun relies on the Vizir - an erudit full of knowledge and statistics about the Kingdom; Jupiter relies (on the mythology, swallowed) on Métis, the council, that knows how to govern.

On Jupiter and Métis we are still talking about assembly, talks, election, decisions.
Minos, however, comes when a state is already established, so his rules are "orders" that must be accomplished. Minos represents the will of the State, and his myth is the more close of what greeks and romans called tyrannoi or dictatores.


But Métis and Minos aren't planets. I know, and that's why I find hard to harmonize all the concepts on only 7 or 10 planets. Mythologies are way more extensive than that.


Astrologically speaking, I figure it as
Sun - Leo/Magha
Jupiter - Sagittarius
Métis - Pisces/Uttara Bhadra Pada
Minos - Capricorn/Uttara Ashadha
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by aldebaran View Post
About kingship, I interpreted Greek Mythology, under a comparative with others, on this way,

Sun is the King of a traditional, old, respected Monarchy. It's glorious and celebrated, the responsibility over the Kingdom as a whole is at last upon Him, and on this sense he may have a strong power of decision - but it doesn't mean that he will be, pragmatically, who rules.
Many modern Monarchic Republics have a King as a symbol, that may renounce under difficult circumstances(like it was his fault!), even not having much power over state affairs.

Métis represents the council of wise people. They are the people that are able to govern wisely.

Jupiter is more like an elected leader, that has a lot of expansive ideas and behavior, perhaps a bit populist, and that is the "leader" - not the administrator really.

The Sun is symbolically the King of the Kingdom/State. The Ancient, traditional Kingdom/State. Jupiter is the leader of a certain "project" that is being implemented.

The Sun relies on the Vizir - an erudit full of knowledge and statistics about the Kingdom; Jupiter relies (on the mythology, swallowed) on Métis, the council, that knows how to govern.

On Jupiter and Métis we are still talking about assembly, talks, election, decisions.
Minos, however, comes when a state is already established, so his rules are "orders" that must be accomplished. Minos represents the will of the State, and his myth is the more close of what greeks and romans called tyrannoi or dictatores.


But Métis and Minos aren't planets. I know, and that's why I find hard to harmonize all the concepts on only 7 or 10 planets. Mythologies are way more extensive than that.


Astrologically speaking, I figure it as
Sun - Leo/Magha
Jupiter - Sagittarius
Métis - Pisces/Uttara Bhadra Pada
Minos - Capricorn/Uttara Ashadha
I completely understand why you think that sun = the concept of a king and not Jupiter, but it's simply not true, and the evidence I gave is enough to see that.

Let me put it this way then, in a way you will probably be able to understand.

Jupiter = expansion, knowledge, justice, benevolence, philosophy, religion, these are the ingredients of a great leader and being worthy of praise and of the kind of power that only a king could have. Also, Jupiter = prosperity, tell me what quality the sun has that as good as the very concept of prosperity? The literal being incarnate of prosperity, Jupiter is the literal definition of an authoritative figure who is aware of all things, and thus fits the king archetype. Jupiter = knowledge itself, so Jupiter is all knowing too.

By that description, Jupiter MUST be the king archetype/the concept of a king.

The sun = ego, which is a selfish, self-absorbed, biased thing. The sun is ignorant by nature, as it's theme is literally "I am this" and "I am", which is also why it rules children and play, as well as drama, acting, games, and plays. It is far too immature and unserious to = the concept of kings.

In short, the sun lacks the qualities required to be kingly, whereas Jupiter has every quality for it.

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Unread 05-14-2019, 02:21 AM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post
In short, the sun lacks the qualities required to be kingly, whereas Jupiter has every quality for it.
Think about Kings, the historical Kings. Are they usually portraied this way? Frequently Kings are even mocked by being apparently dull figures difficult to understand - even on Chess.

The best of a King is having an undeciphrable and glorious Aura. The worst is being just slow and dull than everyone else.

The most cellebrated Kings were expansive ones, with Jupiterian characters, indeed. But you might be undernoticing that Kings are not Kings for being good and visionary and confident, they are Kings by the sole and strictly only fact of being sons of the previous King. That's all.

The example you gave, I can imagine it as the first King of a new Dinasty, that just gave a coup on the Kingdom - under the auspices of people. The next King however, will be just the son of this one, not having necessarily his attributes. That's why I think you are referring to an elected King. But Kings, by definition, aren't elected.

They have an heritage, an even heavy and imposed centrality. Are they expansive, broad, philosophical? Not always, really.
However, having such centrality since birth, they are probably egocentric, reflexive, self-centered - Sun's powers.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 03:03 AM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by aldebaran View Post
Think about Kings, the historical Kings. Are they usually portraied this way? Frequently Kings are even mocked by being apparently dull figures difficult to understand - even on Chess.

The best of a King is having an undeciphrable and glorious Aura. The worst is being just slow and dull than everyone else.

The most cellebrated Kings were expansive ones, with Jupiterian characters, indeed. But you might be undernoticing that Kings are not Kings for being good and visionary and confident, they are Kings by the sole and strictly only fact of being sons of the previous King. That's all.

The example you gave, I can imagine it as the first King of a new Dinasty, that just gave a coup on the Kingdom - under the auspices of people. The next King however, will be just the son of this one, not having necessarily his attributes. That's why I think you are referring to an elected King. But Kings, by definition, aren't elected.

They have an heritage, an even heavy and imposed centrality. Are they expansive, broad, philosophical? Not always, really.
However, having such centrality since birth, they are probably egocentric, reflexive, self-centered - Sun's powers.

Well when you put it that way, you certainly do make a good point. I guess I was wrong.

Perhaps jupiter = the elected type king

And sun = the most common type of king

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Unread 05-14-2019, 12:25 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post

Well when you put it that way, you certainly do make a good point.

I guess I was wrong.

Perhaps jupiter = the elected type king
And sun = the most common type of king
Significations of Sun

also Jupiter

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part II - Seven Stars


Jupiter completes 6 sidereal cycles and 65 synodic cycles with 71 years.
It has retreating arcs of 10 degrees for 120 days.


Jupiter is heating and moderately moistening, benefic, masculine and diurnal.


Phaethon makes those born under him light, of good colour, moderately curling hair, large eyes, tall, commanding respect, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and light, with lank hair, bald in the front and on the crown, with average stature, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, cooperating, distinguished, advising, truthful, beneficent, efficient and outgoing.

Jupiter controls begetting of children, childbirth, faith, love, desire, alliance, knowledge, justice, friendship with great men, prosperity, payments, large gifts, abundance of profits, governments, honours, authority over temples, arbitration of disputes, brotherhood, fellowship, inheritances, adoption, fidelity, the livelihood of the father, confirmation of good things, deliverance from bad things, freedom, entrustments, treasures, stewardship, athleticism and zealotry, the reproductive system, the digestive system, the integumentary system, sacred objects, tin, brilliant colours and sweet tastes. It is chronocrator over early old age up to the 68th year.



Sun is heating and moderately drying, common, masculine and diurnal.

Sun makes those born under him with brightness, fine figure and manly eyes, having excess of hot.

Sun controls action, light, kingship, leadership, high priesthood, reputation, authority over the masses, high rank, the mind, motion, loftiness of fortune, dealings with the gods, judgement, providence, friendship, the father, public matters, honours consisting of images, statues and garlands, the circulatory system, the nervous system, the eyesight, especially the right eye, wheat and barley, gold, bright colours and bitter tastes. It is chronocrator over early adulthood up to the 41st year.


Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
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Modern and Traditional, to Yony

Yony,

What you post is generally true in Modern astrology but not that true in Traditional astrology (which is what Jupiter is talking about). So the answer is: it depends on what type of astrology you are talking about.

About the two astrologies,

Tim
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Unread 05-14-2019, 07:35 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Significations of Sun

also Jupiter
I'm not sure if you read it or not, but I made a huge comment earlier debunking those claims about the supposed "significations of sun and Jupiter" that you have posted.

Although I do agree that sun represents the typical common king and Jupiter represents the elected king.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 09:16 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post


You are ignoring what I just said.
not at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


The Earth with all its inhabitants are under constant causal planetary influence, this is made more easily perceptible with the Sun due its size and the obviousness of its seasonal changes, for the closer it approaches the zenith, the more it affects us with heat and dryness, which in turn influences the smallest particles of matter and seed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

In the case of the Sun, its obvious effluence is heat and dryness. The tropical zodiac also has observable nature through the four seasons, and the four elements that attend them. The Moon and the five planets have other observed emanations (of heat, moisture, dryness and cold) traditionally, derived mainly from rationalistic conjecture and experience.
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Unread 05-14-2019, 09:18 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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Originally Posted by YonyGursho View Post

I'm not sure if you read it or not, but
I made a huge comment earlier
debunking those claims about the supposed
"significations of sun and Jupiter" that you have posted.
Although I do agree that sun represents the typical common king
and Jupiter represents the elected king.
It's obvious you are unaware that you debunked nothing
The significations of Sun and Jupiter are as already posted
quite simply
your opinion is different
and that's fine
there's plenty of disagreement amongst astrologers
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Unread 05-14-2019, 09:34 PM
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Re: A few questions about the planets

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not at all
Except none of this proves what you're saying. Just because the sun gives birth to what we know as the natural seasons of weather, doesn't somehow automatically mean that the sun = the typical king archetype/authority over the masses, although it does certainly IMPLY so is the case, as it giving heat/light to the planets it does can be interpreted to be a symbolical representation of the sun's character and it's traits.

I am aware that the sun is hot and dry, and it also happens to be one of the three fire element ruled planets, and the sun does rule leo, which is the sign of inheritance and royalty. However, I am going to disagree with the notion that simply because the sun gives light/heat to the rest of the solar system, it must mean that the sun somehow represents authority over the masses.

I mean every planet is dry and cold or very hot, except for earth and the sun.

I mean venus is incredibly hot, yet it is an air sign, which is the opposite element of the sun/leo, so the notion that the element a planet is is reflected in it's physical characteristics or temperature is just ridiculous.
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