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Unread 01-15-2015, 08:16 AM
demetraceres demetraceres is offline
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Indicators of (sexual) abuse in natal chart

I know we always have to see the whole picture and the whole chart. It's not my intention to search for all the indicators in the natal chart. I just wanted to share a little piece of this interesting writing about Neptune (I have Neptune in the eighth house aspecting Mars). Otherwise I would be glad if others would contribute any other experiences with any other placements in the chart.

There are some interesting points in this writing about personality traits that Neptune in the eighth house could develope and could attract abuse (I can relate much to these traits, mostly in my past):

- blurred lines in intimate relationships
- a tendency to allow oneself to give without setting any boundaries
- it wants to give and it honestly expects nothing in return



http://www.southfloridaastrologer.co...8th-house.html

NEPTUNE IN THE EIGHTH HOUSE

Blurred lines in intimate relationships are found when Neptune is in the eighth house. The rules surrounding what's given and received in the relationships are not clear and abuse is common with Neptune as the victim. In the extreme cases, this can mean sexual abuse or it can simply indicate a tendency to allow oneself to give without setting any boundaries. Neptune is sensitive, compassionate an empathetic. [edited posting over 100 words against Forum rules - Moderator]


Last edited by demetraceres; 03-20-2015 at 07:28 PM.
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Unread 01-17-2015, 12:24 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by demetraceres View Post
I know we always have to see the whole picture and the whole chart. It's not my intention to search for all the indicators in the natal chart. I just wanted to share a little piece of this interesting writing about Neptune (I have Neptune in the eighth house aspecting Mars). Otherwise I would be glad if others would contribute any other experiences with any other placements in the chart.

There are some interesting points in this writing about personality traits that Neptune in the eighth house could develope and could attract abuse (I can relate much to these traits, mostly in my past):

- blurred lines in intimate relationships
- a tendency to allow oneself to give without setting any boundaries
- it wants to give and it honestly expects nothing in return



http://www.southfloridaastrologer.co...8th-house.html

NEPTUNE IN THE EIGHTH HOUSE

Blurred lines in intimate relationships are found when Neptune is in the eighth house. The rules surrounding what's given and received in the relationships are not clear and abuse is common with Neptune as the victim. In the extreme cases, this can mean sexual abuse or it can simply indicate a tendency to allow oneself to give without setting any boundaries. Neptune is sensitive, compassionate an empathetic.[edited posting over 100 words against Forum rules - Moderator]
I have Mars exact conjunct Neptune in the 8th and I have never been badly abused sexually. It would have to depend if Pluto is in the mix and badly aspected.

I think that with this conjunction you tend to attract those who are playing the victim and you want to be the rescuer or vice versa. Neptune is not about freedom, but it can be indiscriminate. It is about illusion, delusion, idealism, spirituality and often addiction. I agree that confusion and deception can come about with shared assets, inheritances, loans, investments, taxes, insurance etc if it is badly aspected.

There is often secret sex with this placement, a tendency to feel compassion and then have pity sex. The fantasises and dreams rarely come to fruition in real life, where things are more harsh and real. Some people go for long periods celibate but that is their choice often as it is the combination for the IT factor and magnetism.
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Unread 01-18-2015, 08:00 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

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I have Mars exact conjunct Neptune in the 8th and I have never been badly abused sexually. It would have to depend if Pluto is in the mix and badly aspected.
There is a litttle misunderstanding. I have Neptune and Mars in opposition (Mars in the 2nd house). It's my fault for misunderstanding (just wanted to say that Mars is also in the play). The other aspect from the 8th house is Neptune trine Ascendant. My Pluto is well aspected.

I wanted to share this text because it connects Neptune in the 8th house with blurred lines and bounderies. And this blurred lines and bounderies could contribute to situations when native is more easily abused. Not saying that Neptune in the 8th house equals abuse, not at all.

And one of the sunny sides of this position: "However, Neptune is also skilled at reading between the lines and understanding the unspoken communication of the soul."
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Unread 01-19-2015, 09:47 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

mars in 12th house
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Unread 01-27-2015, 11:02 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

U can read this link about nessus/Dejanira in charts.
Iqunk is a real Teacher on asteroids anD hás done extensive researches in hundreds charts.

Dejanira Asteroid in our charts personify The 'victim' possibility for sexual abuse. It must be read carefuly, and if activates The other person's nessus/pluto/Marx/Saturn, then better watch out.

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/For...ML/204892.html

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/For.../000771-2.html

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Unread 01-27-2015, 11:10 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

I've always equated pluto with it.
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Unread 01-28-2015, 03:29 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

The asteroid vesta is like a flower bud that blooms in its own time. Conjuncting squaring opposing or even quincunxing pluto is a clear sign of sex abuse. Pluto aspects in this case are like that beautiful flower bud being pried open before its ready to bloom. Ive seen it in natal charts of sex abuse survivors.
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Unread 01-28-2015, 04:49 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

I was sexually abused when I was a child but my story is a little complex because I don't remember it.

I started seeing dreams about it in 2008 and emotions rises from inside but still don't remember it.(3rd house Neptune effect)

I understand I lived two abuses, one in 1990, the other is in 1992. In 2009, I found out the pictures of the first abuse which I draw when I was 6. This is the only evidence in my hand. I told my parents about my doubts but they don't take me serious. Because I don't remember it, I always have a reality problem. (Still powerful Neptune) Did it really happen or not? But now I know it happened. I always live crisis on the problem of making other people believe. But I shut up about it and keep it a secret in me. I also think I was abused by a relative(a cousin maybe).

I examined the cousin's chart whom I'm suspicious of. And he has a Mars-Pluto opposion. My Pluto aspects are very good. I believe Pluto is more involved in the violator's chart. The victimization is more about Neptune.
Because for example I feel very relieved when I watch Tv Programs or movies about victims saved.(for example I like to watch animal saviors very much)
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Unread 01-29-2015, 07:49 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

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Originally Posted by midnight sun View Post
I was sexually abused when I was a child but my story is a little complex because I don't remember it.

I started seeing dreams about it in 2008 and emotions rises from inside but still don't remember it.(3rd house Neptune effect)

I understand I lived two abuses, one in 1990, the other is in 1992. In 2009, I found out the pictures of the first abuse which I draw when I was 6. This is the only evidence in my hand. I told my parents about my doubts but they don't take me serious. Because I don't remember it, I always have a reality problem. (Still powerful Neptune) Did it really happen or not? But now I know it happened. I always live crisis on the problem of making other people believe. But I shut up about it and keep it a secret in me. I also think I was abused by a relative(a cousin maybe).

I examined the cousin's chart whom I'm suspicious of. And he has a Mars-Pluto opposion. My Pluto aspects are very good. I believe Pluto is more involved in the violator's chart. The victimization is more about Neptune.
Because for example I feel very relieved when I watch Tv Programs or movies about victims saved.(for example I like to watch animal saviors very much)
Painful childhood memories can be repressed, I am sure. After I was sexually abused in my teens, in certain circumstances strange flashbacks and panic attacks started. Many years later my parents told me about the event in my childhood (I was about 4) when I suffered severe traumatization (although not sexual) and I had no idea of it. This flashbacks corresponded with this early abuse.


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Originally Posted by LyP View Post
mars in 12th house
http://www.healwithastrology.com/ast...se-mars-aries/

You have a tendency to confuse your desire to meet your needs with self centredness and will as a result often talk yourself out of setting healthy boundaries and engaging in self care. You have difficultly accepting responsibility for your life and can easily slot yourself into the archetype of victim. You often look to others to take care of your needs and assert your boundaries and feel victimized when they act on your behalf.


It seems to me that Mars in 12th house also has much to do with personal boundaries. It's probably the feeling of not deserving to care for ourselves and our needs and desires.

But I think it's different with Neptune in 8th - because the motivation for unwillingness to take comes from Neptune's need for freedom. By taking, we create obligation. Realizing this, Neptune knows it keeps its freedom by giving, but loses it by taking.

Last edited by demetraceres; 01-29-2015 at 08:09 AM.
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Unread 01-29-2015, 08:56 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

Chiron in the second (taurus) Is an indication of possible trauma related to sexual abuse.

Although it could be the person simply seeks comfort through material things/sex.
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Unread 01-29-2015, 09:04 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

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Chiron in the second (taurus) Is an indication of possible trauma related to sexual abuse.
Why is that? Any explanation? Why not Chiron in the 8th?
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Unread 01-29-2015, 10:15 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

Chiron (the wound) In Taurus which represents Earthy things like; Money, Sex,
2nd rules possessions but also self esteem and self worth.

So if we look at it in regards to sex;

Some say depending on the chart this can mean the person uses sex for self worth. In other cases it could be the wound is related to sexual abuse resulting in a wound of low self esteem, and in effect being possessed as an object.

Chiron in the eighth - To me on this particular issue and I may be wrong is the suppression of desire or the idea it is taboo from a young age/ Being made to hide it. But the transcendence of that is freedom from it and helping others in this matter IE being a good sex therapist!

It all depends I guess how everything else is in the chart as well.
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Unread 01-29-2015, 10:23 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat01.html

Just found this brief outline of an opinion on Chiron.

I personally think a hard aspect to pluto from chiron in 2nd would be a strong indication of sexual abuse.

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Unread 01-30-2015, 02:29 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

I have studied Chiron and its influence in the chart for over 2 decades, and I would not put Chiron in the 2nd up as an indicator of sexual abuse. Where Chiron appears in the chart is an area of probable trouble/wounding, and which one's life circumstances will provide ample opportunities to be dealing with such wounds as they appear throughout life. Chiron in the 2nd house is a wound around a persons values, and they may spend a large amount of their life trying out different sets of values from which they then live their lives. Sex and money may or may not be a part of this journey.

There are no sure fire indicators of sexual abuse on a natal chart, although there are some aspects which, as has been already mentioned, can point to a person possessing a poor sense of personal boundaries (hard aspects between Neptune and Sun and/or Moon), as well as hard aspects between Pluto and the Sun/Moon. None of these are a given, but can render someone more susceptible.

As for Chiron, I have found a number of people who were sexually abused (a number of them quite severely, with accompanying physical and emotional trauma also) who have either Chiron opposition Moon, or Chiron square Moon. Most likely signs of Chiron are the water signs - Cancer, Pisces and especially Scorpio.

Unfortunately - or perhaps fortunately - there is no one-size-fits-all.
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Unread 01-30-2015, 08:35 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

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As for Chiron, I have found a number of people who were sexually abused (a number of them quite severely, with accompanying physical and emotional trauma also) who have either Chiron opposition Moon, or Chiron square Moon. Most likely signs of Chiron are the water signs - Cancer, Pisces and especially Scorpio.

Unfortunately - or perhaps fortunately - there is no one-size-fits-all.
Some astrologers say only strong Chiron in the chart (angular or/and with hard and important aspects) would significantly influence life. I have unfortunately both - angular Chiron (conjunct Ascendant) squaring Moon. So my personal experiences confirm this "theory" (Chiron is otherwise in Aries).

It is interesting (and scarry) to hear hard aspects between Chiron and Moon could be connected with sexual abuse. I thought astrologers connect it more with difficult, wounding relation with mother or/and troubled motherhood or/and troubled relations with women/feminine side (but of course everything can be the consequence of abuse)

We had discussion about Chiron already on this forum - about Chiron conjunct Ascendant which is often associated with bullying - so this placement could be another possible indicator of abuse.

But as everything is connected I found the explanation of the Neptune in the 8th quite interesting due to the nature of my functioning.
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Unread 01-30-2015, 06:34 PM
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I know of someone with Chiron conjunct pluto whose experienced rape as a child and someone with a tsquare between venus, pluto opposition squared by chiron who experienced rape as a teenager. The houses didn't really reflect the abuse as much as the aspects themselves.
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Unread 01-30-2015, 08:54 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

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Originally Posted by demetraceres View Post
Some astrologers say only strong Chiron in the chart (angular or/and with hard and important aspects) would significantly influence life. I have unfortunately both - angular Chiron (conjunct Ascendant) squaring Moon. So my personal experiences confirm this "theory" (Chiron is otherwise in Aries).
Chiron certainly affects everyone, regardless of whether people are aware of it or not. For instance the Chiron in Gemini generation were the first `group' to engage in alternative forms of communication - eg texting - thus creating in the first instance a form of communication which involved each other, but not necessarily the rest of society. Chiron manifests in many different ways, and the sense of it being `wounding' is not necessarily experienced by everyone. For instance, someone with a lot of Aries may view such wounds as necessary challenges.

Many astrologers still do not regard Chiron as important. I find it to be a fundamental part of the chart, a bit like an underground stream running underneath your house - mostly you live with it and do not notice it, but every few years when it floods you then have to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by demetraceres View Post
It is interesting (and scarry) to hear hard aspects between Chiron and Moon could be connected with sexual abuse. I thought astrologers connect it more with difficult, wounding relation with mother or/and troubled motherhood or/and troubled relations with women/feminine side (but of course everything can be the consequence of abuse)
In modern astrology the Moon describes both one's experience of `mother', as well as the default emotional reactions a person has to what happens in their environment. For instance, I have my natal Moon in Cancer, so before I act on an event, I will firstly withdraw, step aside and observe. My brother, who had the same mother, but experienced her differently, has Moon in Leo, so he sees everything as a challenge and a invitation for him to shine and to lead. He acts, while I observe. This is (in part) the Moon at work.

Since our first human relationship is generally with our mother, how she responds to us in those first few months and years of life sets us up with an expectation of how the world will treat us.
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Unread 02-02-2015, 02:56 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

This interpretation of Pluto in the third house refers to abuse:

'Sometimes these individuals have been made to feel intellectually inferior either by intense criticism as a child or they may have had an undiagnosed specific learning disorder such as dyslexia where they felt their peers were laughing at their inabilities. These early experiences have a lasting affect on their own self belief.

Another issue these individuals might have faced was dealing with some type of abuse as a child and not being believed by adults. As well as this there may be issues about being forced to keep quiet over abuse and being silenced by adults.

They may also have experienced trauma [in] which they were unable to talk about either because of the intensity of the experience or because they were made to feel guilty or made themselves feel guilty about doing so such as talking about the death of a parent in case they upset the surviving parent.'

http://neptunes-aura-astrology.com/2...s-in-gemini-2/

Intriguing. What do we make of this?
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Unread 03-03-2015, 03:16 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

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I have studied Chiron and its influence in the chart for over 2 decades, and I would not put Chiron in the 2nd up as an indicator of sexual abuse. Where Chiron appears in the chart is an area of probable trouble/wounding, and which one's life circumstances will provide ample opportunities to be dealing with such wounds as they appear throughout life. Chiron in the 2nd house is a wound around a persons values, and they may spend a large amount of their life trying out different sets of values from which they then live their lives. Sex and money may or may not be a part of this journey.

There are no sure fire indicators of sexual abuse on a natal chart, although there are some aspects which, as has been already mentioned, can point to a person possessing a poor sense of personal boundaries (hard aspects between Neptune and Sun and/or Moon), as well as hard aspects between Pluto and the Sun/Moon. None of these are a given, but can render someone more susceptible.

As for Chiron, I have found a number of people who were sexually abused (a number of them quite severely, with accompanying physical and emotional trauma also) who have either Chiron opposition Moon, or Chiron square Moon. Most likely signs of Chiron are the water signs - Cancer, Pisces and especially Scorpio.

Unfortunately - or perhaps fortunately - there is no one-size-fits-all.

Thanks Raven, you are so wise. I have Sun square Neptune, Moon opposed Pluto and Moon conjunct Chiron in Pisces.

In my case, I was never supervised and was left alone or outright neglected for most of my childhood so I was preyed upon by molesters who were not related to me.

Pisces Moon conjunct Chiron, opposed my Uranus/Mercury/Pluto stellium is a biggie in my chart and explains alot. To top it all off I have Neptune in Scorpio forming the apex to my T squared Sun opposed Saturn. No responsible adults in my family, and my childhood was hell.

Bright spot was Neptune at the very end of house 4, spilling into the 5th I ended up having a wonderful kid who I raised to be a wonderful and most successful young adult. I raised him exactly opposite of how I was raised and am grateful for the opportunity to make the most out what began as a hellish life.

Thank you for your wise insight, Raven. I really appreciate your posts.
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Unread 03-03-2015, 03:49 AM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

Thank you for your feedback, Calvinsmom. Your post motivated me to revisit the chart of a man I once knew - he was a friend of a friend. When he opened up about his childhood I was horrified by what he told me - alcoholic mother who neglected him (and who had sex with strangers in full view of him when he was 6-7), combined with a father who physically, emotionally and sexually abused him - often, and with severe levels of violence. His early life was the classic case of a combination of neglect on the one hand, and overt violent abuse on the other. It amazed me that he made it to adulthood, although he has struggled with drug abuse and alcoholsim. His saving grace was meeting a young woman who became his nurturer/protector, and then had a child with him - a girl. This provided him with much-needed love, which had been missing from his life until then.

His chart always fascinated me - Chiron in Pisces opposing Moon-Pluto (in close conjunction), and if that isn't enough, he also has a T-square formed by Sun-Neptune opposition, both squaring Mars in Leo. It's all there, just in those two planetary arrangements. Oh, and Saturn also opposes Mars, but is not in close enough orb to form a fixed Grand Cross with Neptune-Sun.

With your Chiron-Moon-Pluto all being in close and hard relationship, your background may have been something you have had to experience, and then transcend. Well done for your success.
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Unread 03-03-2015, 03:43 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

If one can learn to surrender to love, one can transcend through love and acceptance of self.

Once one transcends to love and accept oneself, the greatest grace of all is to teach others to love and accept themselves by nurturing them with love.

This is compassion, compassion and nurturing with love brings strength and honor to one's soul and life, I believe.
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Unread 03-14-2015, 07:12 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

Thank you, Raven and Calvinsmom. I appreciate your sharing.

I believe in transcending power of love and I know how important it is to accept ourselves. I also believe in working on our shattered boundaries.

As for motherhood - for a very long time I didn't dare to have children because of my early experiences. Now i'm trying to do my best. I can't complain so far, but there is sometimes a little bit of doubt in me- probably it is the aspect influence - as it is said in astrology - "mothers with hard Chiron Moon aspect may often feel guilty that they are not doing enough for their kids." Fortunately it seems I am transcending it with time and experience.
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Unread 03-14-2015, 08:29 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

I find this thread very interesting. I was sexually abused for ten years, and would like to show my chart as well as my abusers chart as a reference to what have been discussed so far.

The t-square between my virgo sun, sagittaurus mars/moon/uranus conjunction and gemini chiron was activated by pluto in sagittaurus at the time, and the abuse lasted most of this transit. My chiron is opposite the moon, in the 8th house.

When saturn entered virgo at my birthday and activated these points in 2007 I started the healing process. (this transit was much worse than saturn return)

In my case it was mostly a power struggle. There was nothing 'sexual' about the sexual abuse, it had more to do with my abuser trying to break me psychologically. I guess he underestimated my resilience.

My abuser (stepfather, I don't know his birth time) is a pisces whose sun squares my neptune, his saturn conjuncts my sagittaurus conjunction (depending on the orb) His neptune is conjunct my asc/pluto conjunction, his chiron is conjunct my IC (I was abused in my home), he has pluto square mars, where mars conjuncts my true node and pluto conjuncts my mercury, his moon/jupiter is conjunct my libra. When pluto transited sag (and he abused me) it conjoined his saturn and squared his pisces sun, mercury and libra. I guess there are even more things to look at, this is the first time I've looked at it.

As for the love part, my husband is a gemini whose sun is conjunct my chiron and activates the t-square.

Thank you for this topic.
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Unread 03-14-2015, 11:29 PM
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

Emilia, thank you for sharing your story and your ability to transcend what happened to you. I was struck by this part of your post:

"In my case it was mostly a power struggle. There was nothing 'sexual' about the sexual abuse, it had more to do with my abuser trying to break me psychologically. I guess he underestimated my resilience."

Looking at your chart - Pluto conj Scorpio ASC, and Chiron in 8th - power struggles are something which will ultimately strengthen you. Yours is a very `powerful' chart, and it is possible that this triggers insecurity and fear in others - thus your stepfather trying to `break' you.

Another interesting thing I see is that your Mercury in Virgo squares your nodal axis, and being in Virgo also you have the ability to stand back and examine your own life path with clarity ....... which is no doubt another of your saving graces.
__________________

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That's how the light gets in."
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Emilia (03-15-2015)
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Unread 03-15-2015, 03:00 PM
Emilia Emilia is offline
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Re: Indicators for (sexual) abuse in natal chart

Thank you Raven for your reply.

The Pluto/asc is powerful and does trigger insecurities in some people. So far only in men.

I have never thought about mercury squaring the nodes before. Being heard was (is) a big part of the trauma for me. For a while I wrote several theses about child sexual abuse and interviewed victims, because I wanted to give these peopple 'a voice', something I didn't have. I also help administrate an internet forum where abuse victims support each other, and write about the abuse. I have learned from working with abuse victims that there is a common theme of voice and being heard. Everyone of them told adults about the abuse, said no etc. but no one listened. And they still don't feel 'heard' by society. Not being heard also keeps the abuse going. Maybe there are mercury aspects with ongoing/reapeated abuse? (In addition to 'abuse aspects')

I feel that the fact that my parents and other adults didn't listen to me when I told them about the abuse was as bad as the abuse itself. I still struggle with situations where I feel like I am not being heard.
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