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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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Unread 05-16-2019, 06:28 PM
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Introduction

1. Introduction
A very few considerations would make it apparent to all that a certain power emanating from the eternal ethereal substance is dispersed through and permeates the whole region about the earth, which throughout is subject to change, since, of the primary sublunar elements, fire and air are encompassed and changed by the motions in the ether and in turn encompass and change all else, earth and water and the plants and animals therein.

Sun together with the ambient, is always in some way affecting everything on the earth, not only by the changes that accompany the seasons of the year to bring about the generation of animals, the productiveness of plants, the flowing of rivers, the change of bodies, but also daily furnishing heat, moisture, dryness and cold in regular order and in correspondence with its position relative to the zenith.

Moon, too, as the heavenly body nearest to the earth, bestows its effluence most abundantly upon mundane things, for most of them, animate or inanimate, are sympathetic with it, and change in company with it, the rivers increase and diminish their streams with its light, the seas turn their own tides with its rising and setting, and plants and animals in whole or in some part increase or decrease with it.

The ambient and the other five wandering stars often cause hot, windy and snowy conditions of the air, and mundane matters are affected accordingly. All aspects bring about many complicated changes, for though the power of the Sun prevails in the general ordering of the quality, the other heavenly bodies cooperate or deter in particular details. If these matters be so regarded, all would judge it to follow that not only must things already compounded be affected in some way by the heavenly bodies, but likewise the germination and the fruition of the seed must be moulded and conformed to the biological qualities proper to the physical forces at the time. Enough, however, for the possibility of such knowledge can be understood from these and similar arguments.

The following considerations might lead one to observe that criticism of the science on the score of impossibility is specious, but undeserved, in the first place, the mistakes of those who are not accurately instructed in its practice, and they are many, as one would expect in an important and many-sided craft, have brought about the belief that even its true predictions depend upon chance which is incorrect, for this is an impotence, not of the science, but of those who practice it. In the second place, most for the sake of gain, claim credence for another art with the name of this, and they deceive the vulgar, because they are reputed to foretell many things, even those that cannot naturally be known beforehand while to the more thoughtful they have thereby given occasion to pass equally unfavourable judgement upon the natural subject of the craft. Nor is this deservedly done, it is the same with other crafts, we need not abolish them because there are evident rascals among those that pretend to them. Nevertheless, the most inquiring and legitimate practitioners sometimes err, not for any of the reasons stated, but because of their weakness in comparison to the magnitude of their profession. However, just as we do not find fault with the physicians when they examine a person, for speaking both about the sickness itself and about the patient, so too in this case we should not object to the usage as a basis for calculation, nationality, country, rearing, and any other already existing accidental qualities, particularly those concerning the genus.

Unexpected good often grieves men as bad, and unexpected bad causes the greatest grief to those who have not trained their minds in advance. Some people believe neither that foreknowledge is possible nor that precautions can be taken in most instances, and yet, since it is obvious that, if we happen to have cooled ourselves against heat in general, we shall suffer less from it, similar measures can prove effective against particular forces which increase this particular temperament to a disproportionate amount of heat. Since for the most part the resisting faculty is not coupled with the prognostic, because so perfect a disposition is rare, and since the force of nature takes its course without hindrance when the primary natures are concerned, an opinion has been produced that absolutely all future events are inevitable and inescapable. But, just as with prognostication, even if it be not entirely infallible, at least its possibilities have appeared worthy of the highest regard, so too in the case of defensive practice, for example with iatromathematics, even though it does not furnish a remedy for everything, its authority in some instances at least, however few or unimportant, should be welcomed and prized and regarded as profitable in no ordinary sense. Let this be, to this point, our preliminary sketch. We shall now conduct our discussion after the manner of an introduction, beginning with the observable powers of the heavenly bodies.

2. Powers
Sun is heating and moderately drying, this is made more easily perceptible with its size and the obviousness of its seasonal changes, for the closer it approaches the zenith, the more it affects us.

Moon is moistening and moderately heating, certainly because it is close to the earth and because of the moist exhalations therefrom, and because of the light which it receives from the Sun.

Saturn is cooling and moderately drying, since it is furthest removed from the Sun and the moist exhalations about the earth. With the five wandering stars, there are powers which arise through their aspects to the Sun and the Moon, for some of them modify the conditions in the ambient in one way, some in another, by increase or decrease.

Jupiter is heating and moderately moistening, with temperate active force because its movement takes place between the cooling influence of Saturn and the burning power of Mars, and because it has greater heating power by reason of the underlying planets, it produces fertilizing winds.

Mars is drying and burning, in conformity with its fiery colour, its speed of motion, and relative proximity to the Sun.

Venus is moistening and moderately heating, temperate nature that appropriates exhalations from the moist atmosphere surrounding the earth, and the light of the proximate Sun.

Mercury is alternating between drying and moistening, for it is never far removed from the Sun, and since it appropriates the exhalations from Venus and the earth. It changes quickly from one quality to the other, inspired by the speed of its motion in the neighbourhood of the Sun itself.

We refer, however, to the four qualities and four elements not in the sense that they constitute the material basis of the physical world, but that the power of the planets contribute to these physical qualities in the atmosphere, which in turn influence all else, biology and the sociology therein.

3. Qualities
In keeping with our reductionist paradigm, because heat and moisture are fertile and active while dryness and cold are destructive and passive, the Moon, Jupiter and Venus are beneficent, Saturn and Mars are maleficent. The Sun and Mercury are common, joining their influences with those of the other planets, with whichever of them they are associated.

4. Natures
Again, since there are two primary kinds of natures, male and female, and with the forces already mentioned that of the moisture is especially feminine, present to a greater degree with all females while the others in males, with good reason, the Sun, Saturn, Jupiter and Mars are masculine, the Moon and Venus are feminine, and Mercury is common. The planets also become masculine and feminine according to their positions relative to the Sun, masculine as morning planets, feminine as evening planets, and according to their positions relative to the horizon, from the Hour-Marker to the Midheaven, and from the Setting to the Anti-Midheaven, masculine as eastern planets, but in the other two quadrants, they become feminine as western planets.

5. Sects
Similarly, since of the two most obvious intervals of those which make up time, the day is more masculine because of its heat and active force, while night more feminine because of its moisture and the gift of rest, consequently Sun and Jupiter are diurnal, Moon and Venus are nocturnal, and Mercury common as before, diurnal as morning planet, nocturnal as evening planet. Saturn and Mars, however, are assigned not on the principle of similar natures, but of the opposite, for when planets of the same kind are joined with those of good temperament, their beneficial influence is increased, but when dissimilar planets are associated with the destructive ones, the greatest part of their injurious power is broken, and beneficent stars continue to be temperate. Thus, Saturn is diurnal, Mars is nocturnal, for in this way each planet attains good proportion through admixture and becomes a proper member of its sect, which provides moderation. The diurnal planets rejoice by day, the nocturnal planets rejoice by night, when they become more powerful and beneficent.

6. Phases
Now, mark you, likewise, according to their phases to the Sun, the planets experience increase or decrease of their own powers, and it is clear that when they are associated with one another, they produce very many variations of quality in the ambient, the proper force of each planet persisting for the most part, but being changed in quantity by the natures that share the given configuration. Morning and evening appearances are computed with horizontal projection and right ascension.

Moon is moistening and moderately heating from new moon to first quarter
Moon is heating and moderately drying from first quarter to full moon
Moon is drying and moderately cooling from full moon to last quarter
Moon is cooling and moderately moistening from last quarter to new moon

Morning additive planets are moistening and moderately heating
Morning subtractive planets are heating and moderately drying
Evening subtractive planets are drying and moderately cooling
Evening additive planets are cooling and moderately moistening

Moon makes appearances with 7.5° and occultations with 7.5°
Saturn is morning rising with 13° and evening setting with 10.5°
Jupiter is morning rising with 9.3° and evening setting with 7.4°
Mars is morning rising with 15.5° and evening setting with 14.2°
Venus is morning rising with 5.7° and morning setting with 5.8°
Venus is evening rising with 5.8° and evening setting with 5.2°
Mercury is morning rising with 13.2° and morning setting with 9.5°
Mercury is evening rising with 10.5° and evening setting with 11.1°

Stars of first magnitude are morning rising with 9.5° and evening setting with 8.5°
Stars of second magnitude are morning rising with 10.5° and evening setting with 9.5°
Stars of third magnitude are morning rising with 11.5° and evening setting with 10.5°
Stars of fourth magnitude are morning rising with 13.5° and evening setting with 12.5°
Stars of fifth magnitude are morning rising with 16° and evening setting with 15°

7. Colours
Black rays are cooling and moderately drying
White rays are heating and moderately moistening
Reddish rays are drying and burning
Yellow rays are moistening and moderately heating
Varied rays are alternating between drying and moistening
Admixture of colours indicate admixture of natures

8. Groups
Spring, First Age and Setting are moistening and moderately heating
Summer, Second Age and Midheaven are heating and moderately drying
Autumn, Third Age and Hour-Marker are drying and moderately cooling
Winter, Fourth Age and Anti-Midheaven are cooling and moderately moistening

9. Places
Aries, Taurus and Gemini are moistening and moderately heating
Cancer, Leo and Virgo are heating and moderately drying
Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius are drying and moderately cooling
Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces are cooling and moderately moistening

10. Qualities
Aries and Libra are equinoctial
Cancer and Capricorn are solstitial
Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius are solid
Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces are dual

11. Natures
Aries, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Sagittarius and Aquarius are masculine and diurnal
Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, Capricorn and Pisces are feminine and nocturnal

12. Aspects
Planets are in aspect with opposition because places meet on one straight line. And if we take the two fractions and the two superparticulars most important in music, one-third and one-half to the two right angles, sesquialter and sesquitertian to the one right angle, we have sextile, quartile and trine. Of the four aspects, the sextiles and trines are harmonious, for they are composed of places with similar qualities, while quartiles and oppositions are disharmonious, for they are composed of places with opposite qualities.

13. Commanding and Obeying
Places equidistant from the same equinoctial place are commanding and obeying, with the places in the summer hemisphere commanding because they make the day longer than the night, and the places in the winter hemisphere obeying because they make the day shorter than the night.

14. Equal Power
Places equidistant from the same solstitial place are with equal power, for they control the same hours of the day and hours of the night when the Sun ingresses into either of them.

15. Disjunct Places
Places without aspect are turned away and disjunct.

16. Houses
Leo is summery house of Sun and Cancer is summery house of Moon
Capricorn and Aquarius are wintry houses of Saturn
Sagittarius and Pisces are windy houses of Jupiter
Aries and Scorpio are stormy houses of Mars
Taurus and Libra are temperate houses of Venus
Gemini and Virgo are changeable houses of Mercury

17. Triangles
Aries, Leo and Sagittarius are northern wind triangle of Sun by day and Jupiter by night
Taurus, Virgo and Capricorn are southern wind triangle of Venus by day and Moon by night
Gemini, Libra and Aquarius are eastern wind triangle of Saturn by day and Mercury by night
Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces are western wind triangle of Mars by day and Mars by night

18. Elevations
Sun is elevated in Aries and depressed in Libra with the increase and decrease of heat
Moon is elevated in Taurus and depressed in Scorpio with the increase and decrease of light
Saturn is elevated in Libra and depressed in Aries with the increase and decrease of cold
Jupiter is elevated in Cancer and depressed in Capricorn with the power of fecund north winds
Mars is elevated in Capricorn and depressed in Cancer with the power of fiery south winds
Venus is elevated in Pisces and depressed in Virgo with the proper power of moisture
Mercury is elevated in Virgo and depressed in Pisces with the proper power of dryness

19. Terms
Saturn 57°, Jupiter 79°, Mars 66°, Venus 82°, Mercury 76°, the total is 360°. Their arrangement within each place is based on elevation, triangle and house, for the planets with two familiarities are always put first even though they may be maleficent, but where this condition does not exist, the maleficent planets are always put last, the lords of the elevation first, the lords of the triangle second, and the lords of the house third, following the order of the places, and again, those that control two familiarities are preferred to those that have but one. Since no terms are given to the luminaries, the houses of the Sun and the Moon are assigned to Saturn and Mars respectively. As for the number of the terms, when no planet is found with two prerogatives, either with the same place or with those that follow it within the quadrant, there are 7° assigned to beneficent planets, 5° to maleficent planets, and 6° to Mercury, which is common, so that the total is 30°. But since some always have two prerogatives, they are given extra degree, subtracted from those that have but one, proportionally starting with the slower moving planets, however, one does not subtract from Jupiter in Cancer on account of the elevation, and from Mars on account of its revolution.



20. Proper Faces
Planets are with their proper faces when they keep to the Sun or the Moon the same place as with their corresponding houses, provided that they are western to the Sun, and eastern to the Moon.

21. Applications and Separations
In general, the planets which precede are applying to those that follow, and those that follow are separating from those that precede, when the interval between them is not too great. This relation happens by bodily conjunction and through one of the four aspects except that with respect to the bodily applications and separations of the heavenly bodies, it is needful to observe their latitudes, in order that that only those passages may be accepted which are of the same side of the ecliptic. In the case of applications and separations by aspect, however, such a practice is superfluous for all rays always fall and similarly converge from every direction upon the same point, that is, the centre of the earth. It is also needful to observe whether the planets complete or have completed their bodily conjunction or aspect within the same places of the ecliptic, because applications and separations become ineffective with the changeover of places.

Applications and separations within 1° are perfect
Applications and separations within 3° are powerful
Applications and separations within 7° are effective
Applications and separations within 15° are moderate

22. Enclosures and Interceptions
Planet separating from one planet and applying to another planet is enclosed, such configurations are beneficent or maleficent depending on the planets involved. Enclosures are removed with the interception of any bodily application, bodily separation or ray within the intermediate degrees.

23. Overcoming
Planets on the right overcome planets on the left with superior aspect.

24. Attendance
Sun and Moon are attended by other planets present with the same or the following places.

25. Ascensions
Take the pre-ascending, ascending and post-ascending places, with the 5° pre-ascensions and 25° post-ascensions, proportionally to the method of hourly trisections.

26. Lot of Fortune
Take the Lot of Fortune from the Sun to the Moon and the same distance from the Hour-Marker, in order that, whatever relation the Sun bears to the Hour-Marker, the Moon may bear to the Lot.

27. Universe
Planets are powerful with their houses, triangles, elevations, terms and proper faces
Planets are operative with houses, triangles, elevations and terms of planets with same sect
Planets are inoperative with houses, triangles, elevations and terms of planets with opposite sect
Planets are inoperative with their depressions

Morning additive planets are powerful
Morning subtractive planets are operative
Evening additive planets are operative
Evening subtractive planets are inoperative
Planets under the rays of the Sun are inoperative

28. Nativity
Midheaven is powerful
Hour-Marker is powerful
Post-Ascension of Midheaven is powerful
Post-Ascension of Hour-Marker is powerful

Setting is operative
Anti-Midheaven is operative
Post-Ascension of Setting is operative
Post-Ascension of Anti-Midheaven is operative

Pre-Ascension of Midheaven is inoperative
Pre-Ascension of Hour-Marker is inoperative
Pre-Ascension of Setting is inoperative
Pre-Ascension of Anti-Midheaven is inoperative

Source
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html


Last edited by petosiris; 05-20-2019 at 04:23 PM.
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Re: Introduction

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7. (On simultaneous risings of arcs of the ecliptic and equator at sphaera obliqua
After we have thus set out the general characteristics which can be theoretically deduced for the [various] latitudes, our next task is to show how to calculate, for each latitude, the arcs of the equator, measured as time-degrees, which rise together with [given] arcs of the ecliptic. From this we shall systematically derive all the other special characteristics [of the climata]. We shall use the names of the signs of the zodiac for the twelve [30°-] divisions of the ecliptic, according to the system in which the divisions begin at the solsticial and equinoctial points. We call the first division, beginning at the spring equinox and going towards the rear with respect to the motion of the universe, ‘Aries’, the second ‘Taurus’, and so on for the rest, in the traditional order of the 12 signs.
Ptolemy, C. (1984). Almagest. Translated by GJ Toomer.
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Unread 06-14-2019, 03:31 PM
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Re: Introduction

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
9. Places
Aries, Taurus and Gemini are moistening and moderately heating
Cancer, Leo and Virgo are heating and moderately drying
Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius are drying and moderately cooling
Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces are cooling and moderately moistening

16. Houses
Leo is summery house of Sun and Cancer is summery house of Moon
Capricorn and Aquarius are wintry houses of Saturn
Sagittarius and Pisces are windy houses of Jupiter
Aries and Scorpio are stormy houses of Mars
Taurus and Libra are temperate houses of Venus
Gemini and Virgo are changeable houses of Mercury

17. Triangles
Aries, Leo and Sagittarius are northern wind triangle of Sun by day and Jupiter by night
Taurus, Virgo and Capricorn are southern wind triangle of Venus by day and Moon by night
Gemini, Libra and Aquarius are eastern wind triangle of Saturn by day and Mercury by night
Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces are western wind triangle of Mars by day and Mars by night

18. Elevations
Sun is elevated in Aries and depressed in Libra with the increase and decrease of heat
Moon is elevated in Taurus and depressed in Scorpio with the increase and decrease of light
Saturn is elevated in Libra and depressed in Aries with the increase and decrease of cold
Jupiter is elevated in Cancer and depressed in Capricorn with the power of fecund north winds
Mars is elevated in Capricorn and depressed in Cancer with the power of fiery south winds
Venus is elevated in Pisces and depressed in Virgo with the proper power of moisture
Mercury is elevated in Virgo and depressed in Pisces with the proper power of dryness

19. Terms
Saturn 57°, Jupiter 79°, Mars 66°, Venus 82°, Mercury 76°, the total is 360°. Their arrangement within each place is based on elevation, triangle and house, for the planets with two familiarities are always put first even though they may be maleficent, but where this condition does not exist, the maleficent planets are always put last, the lords of the elevation first, the lords of the triangle second, and the lords of the house third, following the order of the places, and again, those that control two familiarities are preferred to those that have but one. Since no terms are given to the luminaries, the houses of the Sun and the Moon are assigned to Saturn and Mars respectively. As for the number of the terms, when no planet is found with two prerogatives, either with the same place or with those that follow it within the quadrant, there are 7° assigned to beneficent planets, 5° to maleficent planets, and 6° to Mercury, which is common, so that the total is 30°. But since some always have two prerogatives, they are given extra degree, subtracted from those that have but one, proportionally starting with the slower moving planets, however, one does not subtract from Jupiter in Cancer on account of the elevation, and from Mars on account of its revolution.

I have a theory that the degrees of the zodiac are related to their rulers only accidentally and by affinity. It seems more logical to me that Aquarius is a wintry portion of the zodiac that causes cold weather that is similar to Saturn rather than Saturn mystically ruling it and it itself causing the cold weather. Thus the rulership is only a useful metaphor, since the placement of the ruler influences the same weather, and ambient at the moment of the birth, whether favourably or unfavourably. The same should be true in the case of the fixed stars, no one should be baffled by the fact that some distant star exerts similar influence to that of an admixture of the planets in the solar system - for example Sirius has an effect similar to Jupiter and moderately Mars.

I believe that Ptolemy is saying the same thing in the following passage:
''and let us remember that in the combinations, again, we must consider not only the mixture of the planets one with another, but also their combination with the others that share in the same nature, whether they be fixed stars or signs of the zodiac, by virtue of their affinities with the planets, already set forth'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...los/2B*.html#8

According to Bouché-Leclercq there is some evidence to suggest that some philosophers thought that Saturn itself causes the wintry weather of Capricorn and Aquarius, which he is quick to berate, though I believe their investigation of the affinity may have been way more subtle than that.

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Re: Introduction

petosiris, my curiosity is piqued with the climatological origin theory. Would you kindly illustrate the usage of all this stuff with a chart reading of a person of your choice? I am trying to figure out how you draw boundaries between literal, material, psychological, metaphorical effect.
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Re: Introduction

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
petosiris, my curiosity is piqued with the climatological origin theory. Would you kindly illustrate the usage of all this stuff with a chart reading of a person of your choice? I am trying to figure out how you draw boundaries between literal, material, psychological, metaphorical effect.
Hi passiflora,
I invite you to join the discord chat group (https://discordapp.com/invite/UkQa8dj) where I have more stuff on the topic I can share, can answer any question you have in an easier fashion and do a chart reading of a person of your choice. Otherwise, I have some old threads that were in a similar direction and also having a couple of after-the-fact examples here: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=125479 and here https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=125501

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Re: Introduction

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
petosiris, my curiosity is piqued with the climatological origin theory. Would you kindly illustrate the usage of all this stuff with a chart reading of a person of your choice? I am trying to figure out how you draw boundaries between literal, material, psychological, metaphorical effect.
Hiii passiflora!

I just also wanted to invite you to discord! I think it would be nice! Currently, we have Rawiri, AppLeo, Gemini888, conspiracy theorist, Petosiris and me. Anyway, no pressure or anything and even if you join, you can always leave! Just thought I'd say I'd like it if you joined...

Btw, even though you can voice chat like skype via discord, for the most part this crew simply types in real time to each other. We just instant message.
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Thank you for the invite! I’d need to figure out a specific time to work it into my schedule. What time are most of you online?

I’ll check those threads, petosiris
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Thank you for the invite! I’d need to figure out a specific time to work it into my schedule. What time are most of you online?

I’ll check those threads, petosiris
We live in totally different places around the world, and some of us also have irregular sleeping schedules, so it really varies. I would say most people are online in four hours (I think it is 3:00 GMT) from now, but it is somewhat irregular. Me and Kat are quite active throughout the day though.
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I’ll check those threads, petosiris
We don't have a schedule really, and no one is expected ever to be online, so you can join and drop anytime you want. I recommend you check the first sticky in the discord channel where I have a pdf you can check out, it is basically these threads ''translated'' and with some added info.
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You certainly elected a weird chart for the chat
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You certainly elected a weird chart for the chat
one wonders why chart considered "weird"
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one wonders why chart considered "weird"
Moon was separating from a conjunction with Mars and applying to the perfect opposition of Saturn while being at the North Node.
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Moon was separating from a conjunction with Mars
and
applying to the perfect opposition of Saturn
while being at the North Node.
Eclipse
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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