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Research and Development This is a forum designed for applying scientific methods and understanding to all approaches of astrology, cooperative formulation and testing of new ideas, re-examination of known methods of delineation and interpretation, and the exploration of new astrological methods of all kinds (e.g. heliocentric models, planetary nodes and apogees, etc.).


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  #1  
Unread 03-19-2019, 11:10 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
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Smile Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello,

a) I am interested in birth charts of people born nearby and especially beyond the Polar Circle whose birth data mention the time. It may be you, a family member, a friend or even an artist or a well-known politician or anyone born:
- in Alaska (as in Barrow became Utqiagvik, Kotzebue or Prudhoe Bay)
- in the Yukon (Old Crow, Mayo or Dawson City)

- in the Northwest Territories (as in Inuvik)
- in Nunavut (as in Igloulik or Alert)
- in Greenland (as in Ilulissat, Nuuk, Sisimiut or Maniitsoq)
- in Iceland (as in Reykjavik or Kůpavogur)
- in Norway (as in Longyearbyen, TromsÝ, Trondheim, BodÝ, Kirkenes or Hammerfest)
- in Sweden (as in Kiruna, ÷stersund, UmeŚ or Boden)
- in Finland (as in Rovaniemi, Kemijšrvi, Oulu, Inari, Ivalo or Sodankylš in Lapland)
- in Russia (as in Murmansk, Norilsk, Dikson, Chersky, Pevek or Bilibino).

b) I would also appreciate any indication of Internet links of astrologers (except Andrew J. Bevan) or astrology sites offering birth charts of people born in these regions of the Arctic Circle.

Thank you in advance for your participation.
Ecliptique.

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  #2  
Unread 03-20-2019, 07:28 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hi, can't help you, but am curious about what you are studying. What is the project all about?
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  #3  
Unread 03-20-2019, 08:23 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
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Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello ElenaJ,


I would like to see how home systems work at these very high latitudes in relation to people's experiences.



Ecliptique.
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  #4  
Unread 03-20-2019, 11:06 AM
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petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Polar houses, like its counterparts the nonreversed tropical (Sun exalted after autumnal equinox) and non-equatorial zones, are some of the contrivances that modern astrologers have put forth, not realising that they are unnatural for these geographical zones - their cosmobiology and the sociology therein.

What is most proper and natural is that the seasonal powers are less effective near the Equator and the angular powers less effective near the Poles, and proportionally therefrom (until the tropic and arctic circles). Other powers like natural significators take over instead for these regions do experience change of ambients, heat, moisture, dryness and cold, and particularly since their ancestors lived in more temperate climes with their corresponding biology.

Last edited by petosiris; 03-20-2019 at 11:24 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 03-20-2019, 12:22 PM
Gemini Pyramid Gemini Pyramid is offline
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Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

You use Equal AC houses in those polar regions.
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  #6  
Unread 03-20-2019, 12:50 PM
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Samantha Bean Samantha Bean is offline
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Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Yes you have to use equal houses for the polar regions.
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  #7  
Unread 03-20-2019, 01:14 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
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Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

petosiris, thanks for your reply. Can you just expand on the difference between sociologies?



Ecliptique.
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  #8  
Unread 03-20-2019, 01:27 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
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Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Gemini Pyramid and Samantha Bean, I agree with you that the system of equal houses would be an adequate application but to my knowledge there has not been a serious and consistent study comparing the different house systems for lack of a lack of accurate birth data of native people from the polar regions beyond the Arctic Circle. I think that does not allow us to say that this or that house system can prevail.

Ecliptique.
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  #9  
Unread 03-20-2019, 06:00 PM
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petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini Pyramid View Post
You use Equal AC houses in those polar regions.
What is the natural and logical reason for using such house system at the poles (besides that it appears as such in astrological software)?

Quote:
petosiris, thanks for your reply. Can you just expand on the difference between sociologies?
I meant the difference of culture and customs (of the indigenous nations, not the foreign settlers) which are so obviously tied with the climata - perhaps the comparison of Nordic countries with Central African countries will suffice.

Last edited by petosiris; 03-20-2019 at 06:04 PM.
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  #10  
Unread 03-20-2019, 09:13 PM
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petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Or in other words, why are people living in such regions treated as deviants living under the influence of equal house systems while those living below the arctic circles under quadrants?
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  #11  
Unread 03-21-2019, 06:23 AM
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Neptunian Rainbow Neptunian Rainbow is offline
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Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

I always use the placidus house system. I know someone born in the northern part of Sweden. His first and seventh houses are huge and all planets except for two outer planets are situated in those houses. To me his chart seems to fit him perfectly. Nothing in his life functions. All of his energy is directed into close relationships where he can project his issues.
Canít share a chart since I donít have his permission, just wanted to say that I think that placidus house system works up north as well.

I use Placidus house system and sidereal charts. For me it works well.
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  #12  
Unread 03-21-2019, 10:04 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
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Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello petosiris,


1) "I meant the difference of culture and customs (of the indigenous nations, not the foreign settlers) which are so obviously tied with the climata - perhaps the comparison of Nordic countries with Central African countries will suffice"


My opinion is that most people on Earth belong to a community that has its own culture and customs. Even if the community, the climate or anything else puts pressure on the individual, I think that the astrological discourse must be universal and must echo everyone that you were born in a Crow tribe, born near Quito in Ecuador, born outside the Arctic Circle, born in Algeria or Namibia, born in Israel, born in Saudi Arabia or born in France. I would say that over the centuries this speech must be understandable by everyone even a prehistoric cave Chauvet-Pont d'Arc (-36000 years) from the moment we could communicate reciprocally.


2) "Or in other words, why are people living in such regions treated as deviants living under the influence of equal house systems while those living below the arctic circles under quadrants"



I do not see why you can say that the inhabitants of the polar regions are treated as deviants and that we could only apply the system of equal houses (or even the system of whole signs) even if there are extreme cases. Quadrant systems are applicable.
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  #13  
Unread 03-21-2019, 10:09 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
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Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello Neptunian Rainbow,





maybe this person will allow you to give me his birth data by private courier? In return she will get an analysis always by MP and an exchange through you if she wishes. I make a point of honor to respect people.



Ecliptique.
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  #14  
Unread 03-23-2019, 01:07 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
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Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Originally Posted by Gemini Pyramid
You use Equal AC houses in those polar regions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
What is the natural and logical reason for using such house system at the poles (besides that it appears as such in astrological software)?

The natural and logical reason for using the system of houses equal to the Ascendant as well as the quadrant systems could be the consideration that two great circles of the celestial sphere pass the opposite points Zenith and Nadir from the vertical of the place of birth. These two great circles cut the ecliptic circle reciprocally in two points (with their opposite) which are the nonagesimal point and the middle of the sky.

Ecliptique.
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  #15  
Unread 03-23-2019, 04:02 PM
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petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

The Ascendant is retrograde at times in such regions, and there is really no sense of rising, culminating (at the equal MC) and setting in any meaningful sense of these words (since some planets will be circumpolar). As such, the houses there, are in my opinion, purely fictitious points that have no bearing in nature, since even the whole sign and equal house MC derive most of their symbolism, not from their abstract aspectual relationship, but through these aforementioned phenomena for the latitude of Egypt, Babylon, the Mediterranean etc.

Quote:
I do not see why you can say that the inhabitants of the polar regions are treated as deviants and that we could only apply the system of equal houses (or even the system of whole signs) even if there are extreme cases. Quadrant systems are applicable.
I don't know where I've suggested that? Quadrant systems are applicable to some extent near the arctic.

Quote:
My opinion is that most people on Earth belong to a community that has its own culture and customs. Even if the community, the climate or anything else puts pressure on the individual, I think that the astrological discourse must be universal and must echo everyone that you were born in a Crow tribe, born near Quito in Ecuador, born outside the Arctic Circle, born in Algeria or Namibia, born in Israel, born in Saudi Arabia or born in France. I would say that over the centuries this speech must be understandable by everyone even a prehistoric cave Chauvet-Pont d'Arc (-36000 years) from the moment we could communicate reciprocally.
I doubt that marriages with siblings are that common in your country as they were in Hellenistic Egypt:

Quote:
So then, as, among all genethlialogical inquiries whatever, a more general destiny takes precedence of all particular considerations, namely, that of country of birth, to which the major details of a geniture are naturally subordinate, such as the topics of the form of the body, the character of the soul and the variations of manners and customs, it is also necessary that he who makes his inquiry naturally should always hold first to the primary and more authoritative cause, lest, misled by the similarity of the genitures, he should unwitting generally call, let us say, the Ethiopian white or straight-haired, and the German or Gaul black-skinned and woolly-haired, or the latter gentle in character, fond of discussion, or fond of contemplation, and the Greeks savage of soul and untutored of mind; or, again, on the subject of marriage, lest he mistake the appropriate customs and manners by assigning, for example, marriage with a sister to one who is Italian by race, instead of to the Egyptian as he should, and a marriage with his mother to this latter, though it suits the Persian. - Claudius Ptolemy, trans. by Robbins http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/4C*.html#10
Astrology is conjectural as race (particularly the inheritance of the parents), country, and upbringing take precedence over individual nativities. So, too, the obvious historical period.

But I don't see what is the problem in observing the scientific astronomical and geographical peculiarities either. As Ptolemy says, some are inclined toward horsemanship because of plain country, or toward seamanship because of the close sea, I may add, some are inclined to wealth and advancement because of the abundance of costly natural resources. All these things can add prospects for jobs, cultural advancement and increase of the necessities of life. Also, if you are born a woman in the Islamic countries in the Middle East, your life experience will be different than if you were born a woman in Europe, or say, in an indigenous tribe in Papua New Guinea, regardless of your natal placements.

Last edited by petosiris; 03-23-2019 at 04:34 PM.
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  #16  
Unread 03-24-2019, 08:20 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
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Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

petosiris,

I think a majority of forum members know about the astrological quirks that occur in polar regions. I do not know if you have a preference for this or that house system to interpret birth charts of people born in these high latitudes. I created this thread primarily to collect birth data from people born beyond the Arctic Circle in order to exchange with them or with the person holding this data. At least three kinds of house system can be selected for a comparative study: the system of whole signs, the system of equal houses and the quadrant system ... No consistent study of this type of birth chart has been made to my knowledge with specific birth times. This is simply what I hope to do here, although I know it will be difficult. However perhaps amateur or professional astrologers established in these regions will want to do this type of study.
Ecliptique.
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