Dispositor

Zaphod

Zaphod

Well-known member
I learned to do this simply by following the chains. Some are easy, some aren't. Here's an easy one. A friend has Mars, Sun and Venus in Aries.

Mar is in its sign of rulership, so it has no dispositor.
Thus we have Mars --> Sun and Mars --> Venus

Next we look at the signs ruled by the Sun (Leo) and Venus (Taurus and Libra).

We find Pluto in Leo, which gives us Mars --> Sun --> Pluto. There are no planets in Pluto's sign Scorpio, so that chain ends there.

There are no planets in Taurus, but in Libra we have Neptune, which gives us Mars --> Venus --> Neptune.

Neptune's sign, Pisces, holds the Moon and Mercury, yielding:
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Moon
Mars --> --Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury.

There are no planets in the Moon's sign, Cancer, so that chain ends.

In Mercury's signs, we have Uranus in Gemini and Saturn in Virgo. There are no planets in Uranus' sign, Aquarius, so that chain ends too. Saturn in Virgo yields:
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Saturn.

Jupiter is in Saturn's sign, Capricorn, giving us the end of the last chain: Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Saturn --> Jupiter.

Putting it all together, it looks like this:

Mars --> No dispositor (rules Aries)
Mars --> Sun
Mars --> Venus
Mars --> Sun --> Pluto --> Done
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Moon
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Moon --> Done
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Uranus
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Saturn
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Uranus --> Done
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Saturn --> Jupiter

Since all of the planets can be traced back to Mars through these chains, it is the "sole dispositor" of this chart and, although not angular, it would be a good candidate for chart ruler. The Sun and Pluto are also strong since they are in their signs of exaltation; some writers give co-rulership of Aries to Pluto, so they could be considered in "mutual reception" by that reckoning. Mercury and Venus are in their detriment and Jupiter is in its fall, so they aren't strong.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Zaphod said:
I learned to do this simply by following the chains. Some are easy, some aren't. Here's an easy one. A friend has Mars, Sun and Venus in Aries.

Mar is in its sign of rulership, so it has no dispositor.
Thus we have Mars --> Sun and Mars --> Venus

Next we look at the signs ruled by the Sun (Leo) and Venus (Taurus and Libra).

We find Pluto in Leo, which gives us Mars --> Sun --> Pluto. There are no planets in Pluto's sign Scorpio, so that chain ends there.

There are no planets in Taurus, but in Libra we have Neptune, which gives us Mars --> Venus --> Neptune.

Neptune's sign, Pisces, holds the Moon and Mercury, yielding:
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Moon
Mars --> --Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury.

There are no planets in the Moon's sign, Cancer, so that chain ends.

In Mercury's signs, we have Uranus in Gemini and Saturn in Virgo. There are no planets in Uranus' sign, Aquarius, so that chain ends too. Saturn in Virgo yields:
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Saturn.

Jupiter is in Saturn's sign, Capricorn, giving us the end of the last chain: Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Saturn --> Jupiter.

Putting it all together, it looks like this:

Mars --> No dispositor (rules Aries)
Mars --> Sun
Mars --> Venus
Mars --> Sun --> Pluto --> Done
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Moon
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Moon --> Done
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Uranus
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Saturn
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Uranus --> Done
Mars --> Venus --> Neptune --> Mercury --> Saturn --> Jupiter

Since all of the planets can be traced back to Mars through these chains, it is the "sole dispositor" of this chart and, although not angular, it would be a good candidate for chart ruler. The Sun and Pluto are also strong since they are in their signs of exaltation; some writers give co-rulership of Aries to Pluto, so they could be considered in "mutual reception" by that reckoning. Mercury and Venus are in their detriment and Jupiter is in its fall, so they aren't strong.
Click to expand...

Beginners are unaware that the form of dispositorship illustrated works for modern astrologers using the outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto but not for Traditional Astrologers using the Classical Rulerships. i.e. Traditional astrology designates Mars as ruler Aries and Scorpio, Jupiter rules Sagittarius and Pisces, whilst Saturn rules Capricorn and Aquarius

astro.com provides no alternative calculation of house dispositors for those astrologers using traditional methods :smile:
 
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Zaphod

Zaphod

Well-known member
Very good point. I know one highly experienced traditional astrologer who sticks with angularity, sign rulerships, mutual receptions, diurnal and nocturnal triplicity rulers,essential and accidental dignities and debilities, sects, terms and faces, and applies a "scoring system" of the type William Lilly used to determine planetary strength and weakness. I'm not sure he has ever mentioned using dispositors in this way, although the "Lord" of a "House" (meaning the sign it rules and therefore of any planet therein) seems to be part of the traditional toolbox. I'm moving in that direction myself, and am using the Morinus software program ("traditional" version) to smooth the way. Now I just need a few good books.
 
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Zaphod

Zaphod

Well-known member
Traditional astrology can actually add subtleties to the modern approach to dispositors that might otherwise be missed. For example, in my chart Jupiter is isolated from the rest of the planets in the dispositor chain. Here is the chain:

Jupiter in Sagittarius (in rulership sign but dispositing nothing)
Saturn --> Moon
Moon --> Sun
Moon --> Mercury
Moon --> Venus
Sun --> Pluto --> Done
Sun -->Saturn --> (See above)
Venus --> Neptune --> Done
Mercury --> Mars --> Done
Mercury --> Uranus --> Done

(Some of this loops around a bit but for the purpose of illustration this is the most straightforward way to look at it)

But the following was pointed out to me:

Jupiter in Sagittarius is in its own sign and is in Saturn's "face" (decan).
Saturn in Leo is in its (traditional) detriment but is in Jupiter's "face" and is in the sign whose "Lord" (Sun) rules the fiery triplicity by day. Jupiter is also in the fiery triplicity and since they are in each other's "face" they share an affinity that amounts to a form of mutual reception by exaltation. They are also "familiar" (they share a trine aspect). All of this serves to tie Jupiter in obliquely to the dispositor complex through Saturn, making it (by virtue of it being in the 1st house - but not angular - and in its own sign vs Saturn in detriment) one candidate for chart ruler (almuten). (Mars is the other one, being elevated and angular at the MC.) In looking at Lilly's table of essential dignities, I have some trouble getting to this conclusion, but Jupiter is clearly more important than it seems at first glance so I'll take this on faith until I learn more. This isn't beginner stuff either, but points out that traditional astrology can add considerable depth.
 
Zaphod

Zaphod

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
Beginners are unaware that the form of dispositorship illustrated works for modern astrologers using the outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto but not for Traditional Astrologers using the Classical Rulerships. i.e. Traditional astrology designates Mars as ruler Aries and Scorpio, Jupiter rules Sagittarius and Pisces, whilst Saturn rules Capricorn and Aquarius

astro.com provides no alternative calculation of house dispositors for those astrologers using traditional methods :smile:
Click to expand...

This gets interesting. I know another highly experienced traditional astrologer who thinks the chance of a dispositor chain completing in a traditional chart is greater since there are fewer variables involved. Here, in part, is what he says:

"Well if we had Sun, Mercury and Venus in Virgo, Saturn and Jupiter in Leo, Mars in Sagittarius and Moon in Aries, that should give a sole dispositor of Mercury using traditional rulerships. The outers would not be used, therefore they are not relevant to the dispositor tree. Using the outers as rulers would reduce the chances of sole dispositors for considerable periods - just think about Neptune entering Pisces, and then Saturn entering Capricorn, followed by Jupiter entering Sagittarius."

He does add, however, that there is no good reason to use dispositors in traditional charts because of all the other tools available to measure planetary strength.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
Beginners are unaware that the form of dispositorship illustrated works for modern astrologers using the outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto but not for Traditional Astrologers using the Classical Rulerships. i.e. Traditional astrology designates Mars as ruler Aries and Scorpio, Jupiter rules Sagittarius and Pisces, whilst Saturn rules Capricorn and Aquarius

astro.com provides no alternative calculation of house dispositors for those astrologers using traditional methods :smile:
Click to expand...
Zaphod said:
This gets interesting. I know another highly experienced traditional astrologer who thinks the chance of a dispositor chain completing in a traditional chart is greater since there are fewer variables involved. Here, in part, is what he says:

"Well if we had Sun, Mercury and Venus in Virgo, Saturn and Jupiter in Leo, Mars in Sagittarius and Moon in Aries, that should give a sole dispositor of Mercury using traditional rulerships. The outers would not be used, therefore they are not relevant to the dispositor tree. Using the outers as rulers would reduce the chances of sole dispositors for considerable periods - just think about Neptune entering Pisces, and then Saturn entering Capricorn, followed by Jupiter entering Sagittarius."

He does add, however, that there is no good reason to use dispositors in traditional charts because of all the other tools available to measure planetary strength.
Click to expand...
Traditional Astrology does use Dispositors – it is Modern Astrology that has borrowed the technique of dispositors from the original practitioners of Ancient/Traditional astrology :smile:
here's a link to a definition of “Dispositor” from Deborah Houldings website http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/dispositor.html

  • a planet which disposits, disposes of, or rules another because the other is in one of its areas of dignity. For example, when Jupiter is in Taurus, Venus, the planetary ruler of Taurus, disposits Jupiter. Planets can also be disposed by the lesser dignities, so the dispositor of Jupiter by exaltation is the Moon which is naturally exalted in Taurus. Ptolemy, who was not an astrologer, copied the Essential Dignities as previously recorded and written by his predecessors – before “improving them” with his own ideas.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html
Zaphod said:
Traditional astrology can actually add subtleties to the modern approach to dispositors that might otherwise be missed. For example, in my chart Jupiter is isolated from the rest of the planets in the dispositor chain. Jupiter in Sagittarius (in rulership sign but dispositing nothing

But the following was pointed out to me:

Jupiter in Sagittarius is in its own sign and is in Saturn's "face" (decan).
Saturn in Leo is in its (traditional) detriment but is in Jupiter's "face" and is in the sign whose "Lord" (Sun) rules the fiery triplicity by day. Jupiter is also in the fiery triplicity and since they are in each other's "face" they share an affinity that amounts to a form of mutual reception by exaltation. They are also "familiar" (they share a trine aspect). All of this serves to tie Jupiter in obliquely to the dispositor complex through Saturn, making it (by virtue of it being in the 1st house - but not angular - and in its own sign vs Saturn in detriment) one candidate for chart ruler (almuten). (Mars is the other one, being elevated and angular at the MC.) In looking at Lilly's table of essential dignities, I have some trouble getting to this conclusion, but Jupiter is clearly more important than it seems at first glance so I'll take this on faith until I learn more. This isn't beginner stuff either, but points out that traditional astrology can add considerable depth.
Click to expand...
It is interesting how your example shows that - when using traditional rulerships – Jupiter is clearly not isolated after all. Mutual reception by face between Jupiter and Saturn although a weak dignity, adds another layer of delineation for Traditional astrologers that provides a greater understanding of the way Jupiter works/may work with other planets in the chart in question. :smile:

 
M

MadeinLithuania

New member
Ok, I will try it too. :rolleyes:
Sun in Aquarius (ruled by Uranus)
Moon in Aquarius (ruled by Uranus)
Mercury in Aquarius(ruled by Uranus)
Venus in Pisces (ruled by Neptune)
Mars in Cancer (ruled by Moon)
Jupiter in Libra (ruled by Venus)
Saturn in Aquarius (ruled by Uranus)
Uranus in Capricorn (ruled by Saturn)
Neptune in Capricorn (ruled by Saturn)
Pluto in Scorpio (ruled by Pluto)

Sun --> Uranus
Moon --> Uranus
Mercury --> Uranus
Venus --> Neptune
Mars --> Moon
Jupiter --> Venus
Saturn --> Uranus
Uranus --> Saturn
Neptune --> Saturn
Pluto --> Pluto

Uranus - 4
Saturn - 2
Neptune - 1
Moon - 1
Venus - 1
Pluto - 1


Pluto<-->Pluto
Mars-->Moon
Jupiter-->Venus-->Neptune-->Saturn<-->Uranus

:unsure:

Sooo, my final dispositor is Uranus:w00t:
 
P

PD187540

Well-known member
Riles said:
Ok, so you have 4 Chart Dispositors (note that this means that there is no final dispositor): Sun, Mercury, Venus, and Jupiter. These planets run your chart like a kind of committee, each taking responsibility for certain parts. I'd think this could either lend more balance through offering multiple perspectives that might pick up what the others are missing, or it could have a fracturing influence when the planets in charge are conflicting with one another.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. I guess I have a committee of 4 planets then. They seem to be doing their own things maybe. The only aspect I have that involves those 4 is Sun sextile Jupiter.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
MadeinLithuania said:
Ok, I will try it too. :rolleyes:
Sun in Aquarius (ruled by Uranus)Mercury in Aquarius(ruled by Uranus)
Venus in Pisces (ruled by Neptune) Mars in Cancer (ruled by Moon) Jupiter in Libra (ruled by Venus) Saturn in Aquarius (ruled by Uranus) Uranus in Capricorn (ruled by Saturn) Neptune in Capricorn (ruled by Saturn)
Pluto in Scorpio (ruled by Pluto) Sun --> Uranus Moon --> Uranus Mercury --> Uranus Venus --> Neptune Mars --> Moon Jupiter --> Venus Saturn --> Uranus Uranus --> Saturn Neptune --> Saturn Pluto --> Pluto
Uranus - 4 Saturn - 2 Neptune - 1 Moon - 1 Venus - 1 Pluto - Pluto<-->Pluto Mars-->Moon Jupiter-->Venus-->Neptune-->Saturn<-->Uranus

Sooo, my final dispositor is Uranus:w00t:
Click to expand...
Not necessarily... in Traditional Astrology Saturn rules Aquarius and Capricorn, Jupiter rules Pisces and Sagittarius, Mars rules Scorpio and Aries, Venus rules Taurus and Libra and Sun rules Leo while Moon rules Cancer :smile:
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Pueros said:
Well I have my Mars in Aries by its self
and a mutual reception between Venus in Aquarius and Saturn in Taurus
Click to expand...
Mars in Aries is also in Exaltation of the Sun :smile:

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