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Unread 01-17-2016, 12:01 AM
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Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

I'm wondering what it's like for ya'll who have experienced (or those of you who would care to conjure a guess) what it's like to have a strong Pluto aspect with somebody else.

I've had very varied experiences. I've been the Pluto person and I've been the "other planet" person. Whenever I read astrology columns, they always emphasize that the Pluto person is the one who has the power in the relationship, but I don't always find that to be true. Sometimes it seems to be the other way around. Any speculations as to why this is?


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Unread 01-17-2016, 04:22 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

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Originally Posted by midspringwind View Post
I'm wondering what it's like for ya'll who have experienced (or those of you who would care to conjure a guess) what it's like to have a strong Pluto aspect with somebody else.

I've had very varied experiences. I've been the Pluto person and I've been the "other planet" person. Whenever I read astrology columns, they always emphasize that the Pluto person is the one who has the power in the relationship, but I don't always find that to be true. Sometimes it seems to be the other way around. Any speculations as to why this is?
What does 'Pluto person' mean?
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Unread 01-17-2016, 05:52 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

Well, I would assume that the Pluto person would be the one in power. If not, I think there would be other factors involved or maybe even non-astrological factors such as age. Can you give specific examples of times you've found it to be the other way around?
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Unread 01-17-2016, 06:35 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

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What does 'Pluto person' mean?
I'm talking about synastry, so the Pluto person would be the one who represents Pluto in the aspect.

Specific examples from personal experiences: I've known somebody who seemed very interested in me for a while. Whenever they'd see me in public they'd sort of follow me a long for a while and try to keep a conversation going for as long as they could. They'd ask me to hang out often, but I'd usually make up some excuse not to because I could see where things were going and I wasn't interested. I can be a bit passive aggressive. Even though, in this situation I was the Pluto person, and he was the Venus. Our two planets were at a trine to each other. Months went on like this, eventually I got a boyfriend, but Venus (although, acting very Plutonic) still persisted. Our "friendship" or whatever pretty much ended the day when he walked me home after seeing me out and about, stopped with me and forced me into a kiss. So, it's weird that the Planetary roles seemed to have been reversed. Especially since his Venus is in Pisces, a fairly passive sign, and my Pluto is in Scorpio.

I had a very similar experience with another guy whose Sun trined my Pluto. I was pretty interested in him, but I wouldn't say obsessive. On the other hand, I got letters from him in the mail (he had a Gemini moon) at least twice a week and usually they had a obsessive overtone, always talking about being together.

Again, with someone else I have been Pluto, but this is the circumstance where I actually feel like Pluto. I have been obsessed, borderline stalker to this person for the few years I have known him. His Venus trines my Pluto. And definitely find him attractive on multiple levels. We also have Moon conjunct Pluto. And when I get around him for a long time, I get so fixated on him it almost annoys me because I wish I could think about something else. I get the feeling that I scare the beejezus out of him because he keeps himself at a distance. Then again, he is a Scorpio moon and I think that might just be his nature.

But I've been thinking about this more since I posted this and I've come to think that perhaps with strong Pluto aspects it shows the potential for a strong connection to go either way, mutual or one sided. The way that each individual feels could depend on their relation to Pluto in their own natal chart, or the other planets involved in the two people's synastry.

So, I think I just answered my own inquiry?
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Unread 01-17-2016, 09:07 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

No you are misunderstanding the interaction. Pluto has the power. The personal planet becomes obsessed with Pluto.

The third individual you must have had a different aspect between you that caused you to be obsessed with him, it was not your Pluto.

Last edited by duenderoja; 01-17-2016 at 09:10 AM.
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Unread 01-17-2016, 04:35 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

If the Venus/Sun person was obsessed with you, that means you (Pluto) had the upper hand.
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Unread 01-17-2016, 05:09 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

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Originally Posted by duenderoja View Post
No you are misunderstanding the interaction. Pluto has the power. The personal planet becomes obsessed with Pluto.

The third individual you must have had a different aspect between you that caused you to be obsessed with him, it was not your Pluto.
So is it that any time pluto makes an aspect in synastry with a personal planet it represents control on the part of pluto, and potentially obsession on the part of the personal planet?

Is it only in cases of hard aspects such squares or oppositions? Could it be a more advantageous obsession/control (if there is such a thing) in cases of trines or sextiles?
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Unread 01-17-2016, 05:36 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

Yes.

In my experience, it has been with all aspects. And the obsession varies from person to person based on how the personal planet is aspected natally.

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Unread 01-17-2016, 07:59 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

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Originally Posted by HarmonE View Post
So is it that any time pluto makes an aspect in synastry with a personal planet it represents control on the part of pluto, and potentially obsession on the part of the personal planet?

Is it only in cases of hard aspects such squares or oppositions? Could it be a more advantageous obsession/control (if there is such a thing) in cases of trines or sextiles?
Yes, I also think that this can happen with any aspect - so long as the planets are making some kind of contact there will be a flow of energy. The way the scenarios play out varies depending on hard/easy aspects.

I haven't experienced as many of the hard aspects with Pluto, but when I have the situation is a bit more frustrating and at times there is a tangible struggle for power between the two. Of course, as has been confirmed, Pluto is always the one who truly has it.

Even with the "easy" aspects there can still be some feelings of discomfort, just because Pluto is so extreme. But as it may go without saying, I think whatever discomfort there is, it is easier to resolve than with the hard angles.

Last edited by midspringwind; 01-17-2016 at 08:03 PM.
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Unread 01-17-2016, 08:49 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

Hello -

Most times, I believe the one holding the power in a Pluto relationship is the native with the most truth seeking intent of their soul. They never give you a break and they are obsessed with getting to magma of the situation. Which can be pretty intimidating for a lot of people. Then it comes down to a business decision of risk for loss or gain.

Pluto gets it's force from everything that is hidden or not straight up real by real life terms.

Pluto doesn't bother with petty bickering - he is interested in survival, regeneration, exposing bad dirt from good dirt and being unrelenting, even if it's in subversive ways.

Usually the folks who suffer most from Pluto are those with strong Neptune or a weak Moon in their midst.

I have a habit of relating astrology to songs or movies. I guess I consider myself a Seinfeld Plutonian.


I always wonder if Don Henley/Glenn Frey has a Pluto factor in each his natal chart.

Heart of the Matter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEQgkor-jgU

Doolin' Dalton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brRvG7k1WGg


Marc Almond too -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPudE8nDog0

Maybe Neil Young -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e3m_T-NMOs

Control is the least of the issue in the end -

Moon-Neptune problems with Pluto and who controls power.

I the end - someone or something dies with Pluto - even those control issues in the native's chart.

Anyone who has spotted an Eagle in flight or kill knows they will never be the same person after that.

Last edited by Kitchy; 01-19-2016 at 09:30 AM.
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Unread 01-18-2016, 06:42 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

Thank you for the music, Kitchy ~ I love relating to things through song.
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Unread 01-25-2016, 11:58 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by midspringwind View Post
I'm talking about synastry, so the Pluto person would be the one who represents Pluto in the aspect.

Specific examples from personal experiences: I've known somebody who seemed very interested in me for a while. Whenever they'd see me in public they'd sort of follow me a long for a while and try to keep a conversation going for as long as they could. They'd ask me to hang out often, but I'd usually make up some excuse not to because I could see where things were going and I wasn't interested. I can be a bit passive aggressive. Even though, in this situation I was the Pluto person, and he was the Venus. Our two planets were at a trine to each other. Months went on like this, eventually I got a boyfriend, but Venus (although, acting very Plutonic) still persisted. Our "friendship" or whatever pretty much ended the day when he walked me home after seeing me out and about, stopped with me and forced me into a kiss. So, it's weird that the Planetary roles seemed to have been reversed. Especially since his Venus is in Pisces, a fairly passive sign, and my Pluto is in Scorpio.

I had a very similar experience with another guy whose Sun trined my Pluto. I was pretty interested in him, but I wouldn't say obsessive. On the other hand, I got letters from him in the mail (he had a Gemini moon) at least twice a week and usually they had a obsessive overtone, always talking about being together.

Again, with someone else I have been Pluto, but this is the circumstance where I actually feel like Pluto. I have been obsessed, borderline stalker to this person for the few years I have known him. His Venus trines my Pluto. And definitely find him attractive on multiple levels. We also have Moon conjunct Pluto. And when I get around him for a long time, I get so fixated on him it almost annoys me because I wish I could think about something else. I get the feeling that I scare the beejezus out of him because he keeps himself at a distance. Then again, he is a Scorpio moon and I think that might just be his nature.

But I've been thinking about this more since I posted this and I've come to think that perhaps with strong Pluto aspects it shows the potential for a strong connection to go either way, mutual or one sided. The way that each individual feels could depend on their relation to Pluto in their own natal chart, or the other planets involved in the two people's synastry.

So, I think I just answered my own inquiry?
Yes, Pluto adds an enormous amount of depth to any aspect. Actually all the outers do that because the energy they represent/channel is impersonal, i.e. unfathomable to the human mind. The one that makes you most focused is Pluto, the one that makes you the least focused is Neptune. That's why this combination of depth and focus (or intensity) of the Pluto aspects is often described as obsessive. Which isn't a bad thing per se.
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Unread 01-25-2016, 12:23 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

Years ago, I was besotted with a guy. His Pluto squares my Venus by 3 degrees. He was borderline stalking me... I secretly liked him, yes but didn't show it. He, on the other end, eavesdropped on my conversation and then showed up at the places I was telling my friend I'd be!! Then again, we had DW Mars in each other's 8th House. And his Venus was in my 1st House. So it could have been multiple factors and not just the Venus/Pluto square.

For my latest crush, My Sun square his Pluto by exact 0 degrees, and my Venus square his Pluto by some wide orb 5 degrees. I can tell you straight away I am the obsessed one. I don't show it but the Universe knows! I can't get him out of my head, I dream about him, can't eat, can't sleep, can't poo. I'm beginning to think it's one-sided. He seems so cool and doesn't seem to miss me at all!

So I don't really know. Sometimes it's the Planet person and sometimes it's the Pluto person.

I wish I know how the Pluto feels in my second case.
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Unread 01-25-2016, 12:41 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

No. In your case it was the eighth house planets. The outer planets always have the power.

Experience.
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Unread 01-26-2016, 01:20 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

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Actually all the outers do that because the energy they represent/channel is impersonal, i.e. unfathomable to the human mind.
That's an excellent way of putting it. I'm filing that away into my brain.
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Unread 01-26-2016, 07:58 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

In Pluto-personal planets aspects, it's not that the Pluto person doesn't feel anything or does not obsess. Pluto feels it too, but at a later stage than the personal planet and it can control, conceal it and has very much resources to keep it cool, like it's not there.This gives the impression to the personal planet that Pluto does not care, does not feel and it is a complete *******. Actually, Pluto is the puppet master and that's just that - Pluto has the power.
Another thing Pluto does very well - is ending a relationship. And by that, I mean completely cut off all the ties, no matter the feelings Pluto has for the other planet, enough is enough.
You wake up one day and just see that the Pluto person vanished, there's no goodbye letter, the phone number it had is out of service, there is no facebook, twitter, nothing. Like it never existed.

From my personal experience - I've been Pluto almost always - I can relate with the above statements. From the first sentence and especially till the last one.
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Unread 01-26-2016, 11:24 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

Does the sign or house placement matter at all though? Like I have a Venus conjunct Pluto in my natal chart in Scorpio. The orb is very wide (I think like 9 degrees?) and I normally wouldn't consider it a conjunction (though astrodienst does?) but it's part of a stellium. Venus is conjunct Jupiter which is also conjunct Pluto and all of my crushes are "Plutonic" in nature regardless of whether or not we have a Pluto heavy synastry chart.
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Unread 02-01-2016, 11:22 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

Every time I have read of 'plutonian' relationships, I have never seen that special attention was paid to sign or house placements. The focus was always upon the connection itself.
My synastry with someone shows a Moon-Pluto conjunction (I am the Pluto person). Here, the main idea is that generally Pluto has the upper hand, whilst the personal planet is 'obsessive.' From my point of view, I am more demonstrative the other person. This, actually, does not show some emotional intensity, from what I can see. Maybe it also depends on the fact that we are physically distant, I do not know.
Could you explain better the ways the Moon (especially) or the Venus person showed their obsession concretely in your experience, please? I would like to understand something more. Thanks!
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Unread 02-03-2016, 10:29 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

On our synstry we have:

(his) Pluto conjunct (my) Venus in our synastry
(his) Pluto conjunct(my) Sun
(his) Pluto conjunct (my) Mercury and;
(his) Pluto sextile (my) Saturn.

His Pluto falls into my 5th house. My Venus and Pluto fall into his 6th house. His Mars and Saturn fall into my 7th house.

He definitely calls the shots as I believe he has the upper hand in the situation. The whole dynamic works according to his own plan, not mine. I can be pushing a hundred daisies at times and he wouldn't be fazed at times. It's very disconcerting. He comes and goes as he pleases. Even if I wanted to control, I wouldn't be able to because he swims away. I am the one who obsesses a bit (a lot), but he's the one deciding whether or not to move forward with our connection.

It's as though we're in this constant power battle even though we get along amazingly. He seems slightly controlling and possessive though which is quite odd because he doesn't strike me as a control freak (he's a Pisces). Yet, he wants to know about whether or not I'm talking to other men and such ... bizarre. I never ask about his past.

He however never fully vanished. He gave me a few doors to open in case I ever wanted to keep chasing. When he swam away the first two times, I was the one to vanish. He did this highly contradictory thing where he'd swim away and then start chasing whenever he gathered I wasn't gonna chase. Bizarre.
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Unread 02-03-2016, 01:37 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

... That is how men work. They are the chasers.
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Unread 02-05-2016, 03:00 PM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

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Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
On our synstry we have:

• (his) Pluto conjunct (my) Venus in our synastry
• (his) Pluto conjunct(my) Sun
• (his) Pluto conjunct (my) Mercury and;
• (his) Pluto sextile (my) Saturn.

His Pluto falls into my 5th house. My Venus and Pluto fall into his 6th house. His Mars and Saturn fall into my 7th house.

He definitely calls the shots as I believe he has the upper hand in the situation. The whole dynamic works according to his own plan, not mine. I can be pushing a hundred daisies at times and he wouldn't be fazed at times. It's very disconcerting. He comes and goes as he pleases. Even if I wanted to control, I wouldn't be able to because he swims away. I am the one who obsesses a bit (a lot), but he's the one deciding whether or not to move forward with our connection.

It's as though we're in this constant power battle even though we get along amazingly. He seems slightly controlling and possessive though which is quite odd because he doesn't strike me as a control freak (he's a Pisces). Yet, he wants to know about whether or not I'm talking to other men and such ... bizarre. I never ask about his past.

He however never fully vanished. He gave me a few doors to open in case I ever wanted to keep chasing. When he swam away the first two times, I was the one to vanish. He did this highly contradictory thing where he'd swim away and then start chasing whenever he gathered I wasn't gonna chase. Bizarre.
I want to add something to this.

I checked my synastry with my college boyfriend who was literally obsessed with me for years (he was online stalking me). It turns out that just like my Pisces, this Taurus' Pluto conjunct my Venus.

He was very very obsessive even when he was dating his now-wife. A month before his wedding, he was still stalking me online. It was very creepy. I never stalked him. I thought of him a lot, but I was not obsessive. He was, until I called him out on it and told him to leave me alone.

Hence, I'm not sure who is the most obsessive, Pluto or Venus?! In the instance with the Pisces, I'm the "obsessive" one. I'm not sure about how he truly feels about me or if he stalked me during these two years, but the obsession seems to be a theme.

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Unread 02-06-2016, 11:57 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

This is an interesting thread to me because my Pluto squares my husband's Mars and his Pluto is conjunct my Mars. I often wonder who has the power... haha! He has Mars (H5) square Pluto (H7) natal and I have a Mars/Pluto (and Saturn) conjunction (H8/9 cusp). I am not sure either one of us is anymore powerful than the other. I think my Saturn actually is the most authoritative out of all of that energy and calls the shots. His temper is in check because I don't allow it. I think the Pluto/Mars energy between us makes us more passionate and I am aware of a power struggle so I think it is something you have to mindfully balance or there would be outright war.
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Unread 02-06-2016, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
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This is an interesting thread to me because my Pluto squares my husband's Mars and his Pluto is conjunct my Mars. I often wonder who has the power... haha! He has Mars (H5) square Pluto (H7) natal and I have a Mars/Pluto (and Saturn) conjunction (H8/9 cusp). I am not sure either one of us is anymore powerful than the other. I think my Saturn actually is the most authoritative out of all of that energy and calls the shots. His temper is in check because I don't allow it. I think the Pluto/Mars energy between us makes us more passionate and I am aware of a power struggle so I think it is something you have to mindfully balance or there would be outright war.
Are you the same age? Like, I have Sun/Mercury square Uranus/Neptune natal meaning I have this aspect with everyone in my age group. I'm not sure if I really feel it. I mean, I guess I have trouble relating to the collective values of my generation (for example, I hate social media...I could give more examples) I have trouble making/keeping friends with people too close in age and that could be the Uranus but other than that...

It's not like I feel a magical Neptunian connection with everyone I meet.

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  #24  
Unread 02-07-2016, 02:24 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

I suppose I will add to this on a non-romantic relationship.

I recently discovered my boss' Pluto is conjunct my Venus in Virgo (my 4H) by 2 degrees. I don't have birth time, of course, so I don't know what house it falls in for him.

Venus doesn't just rule love but also resources and money. I'm gonna call my boss Pluto and refer to myself as Venus for the story of how we met:

Venus is working for peanuts at a small office by herself. One day, the head office tells Venus they are closing her down because another company has won over their only client at her office. The head office offers her a job but that requires her to move away from her home. Venus doesn't know what to do.

One day, Pluto walks through to door, sharply dressed and affluent. Venus asks Pluto how she may help him. Pluto tells Venus he is the owner of the company that stole her client and wants to hire her to work for him. He tells Venus that he'll pay her much more and she won't have to move away from home. Pluto won't take no for an answer. After careful consideration, Venus accepts.

This takes Venus in a dramatic new direction, gives her more money than she's been paid in her life, and might finally allow her to live comfortably. Venus and Pluto find they make a great team to pull in lucrative new clients. However, Venus is totally dependent on Pluto's resources, and Pluto is demanding of her time and energy.

Obsession and attraction don't figure in as a sexual desire, but the relationship between a Venus-Pluto contact still holds.

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Unread 02-07-2016, 03:46 AM
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Re: Pluto aspects in Synastry - Who Has the Power?

Very interesting case, Flapjack. Thanks. That illustrates how Pluto wields power in ways other than sexual relationships.

My niece had an intense power struggle with a Plutonian person , for over a decade until she gave up.

My niece was an astrology student and so I studied charts with her that she brought to me so she could learn about people she was closest to. She had a very intense Pluto by synastry conjunct her natal Venus/Moon in Leo going on.


In her natal chart she has Moon exactly conjunct Venus in Leo. [It is in her 12th with Late Leo rising. She has Sun and Mercury in late Gemini.]

Her husband had his Mars conjunct her Moon/Venus and his Sun was squaring that from Taurus in her 10th. They had great sexual attraction for each other and they fought a bit too much but there was great love and attraction and energy between them.


That was all well and good. But what went wrong? Why did she leave him and take their son to live in a nearby town?

After his father died, his Mother came to 'stay' with them for awhile. Mother-in-law had her Pluto in Leo, exactly conjunct my niece's Moon/Venus. And conjunct her Son's Mars, square his Sun.

Her Pluto was the apex of a t-square between her Sun/Saturn opposition. She was a Scorpio with Saturn in Taurus. So her Son's Mars was right at that same apex. She had him under her thumb. He was like a 'wet blanket' around his Mom, according to my niece. He did everything she told him to do and he never questioned her or stood up to her.

His Mom has Pluto on his Mars and Saturn on his Sun, and they squared each other. And my niece's Moon/Venus was being destroyed by it, in her opinion. Her son was watching his Dad being de-masculated and she did not want to continue the experience.

Mom was the Pluto and she had the power. She had the keys to her son's large inheritance and she made him dance for it. And he lost his marriage and only sw his son every other weekend because of it.

:Pluto: in :Leo: conjunct :Mars: in :Leo: conjunct :Moon: / :Venus: in 12th.

Last edited by katydid; 02-07-2016 at 03:49 AM.
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