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Unread 09-22-2010, 06:22 PM
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Smile What indicates no marriage in a chart?

What indicates no marriage or unhappy marriage in a chart?

Sounds ominous but just thinking what would be termed as someone having a 'bad' marriage in store...or maybe a divorce ...or no marriage at all?

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Unread 09-23-2010, 04:03 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dew9 View Post
What indicates no marriage or unhappy marriage in a chart?

Sounds ominous but just thinking what would be termed as someone having a 'bad' marriage in store...or maybe a divorce ...or no marriage at all?
The Significators for Marriage are:

5th and 7th Houses
5th and 7th House Rulers
Dispositor 5th and 7th House Rulers (if any)
Planets in the 5th and 7th Houses

and the Signs and Houses of all of the Significators

If you're male add Moon and Venus as Significators, but
if you're female add Moon and Mars as Significators.

"Bad" Signs are Gemini, Leo and Virgo
"Bad" Houses are the 6th, 8th, 9th and 12th Houses
A Significator in square or opposition to Saturn is "Bad"

7th House Ruler Mercury in Leo in the 9th House does not mean "NO" but it is an indicator of "NO."

For a male, Venus in Gemini in 9th House Leo does not mean "NO" but it is an indicator of "NO"

For a female, Mars in Gemini in 9th House Leo does not mean "NO" but it is an indicator of "NO."

Saturn in Virgo square Venus (for a male) or Mars (for a female) does not mean "NO" but it is an indicator of "NO"

Moon in Capricorn in the 3rd House does not mean "NO" but it is an indicator of "NO"

That would give us 4 "NO" indicators and so now we might conclude the answer is "NO"

Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces are signs that mean "more than one" of anything.

When those Signs are on the 5th/7th House Cusps, it increases (but does not guarantee) the chances of more than one marriage.

When Significators are in those Signs, it increases (but does not guarantee) the chances of more than one marriage.

Moon in Pisces does not mean more than one, but it is an indicator of more than one.

Venus in Cancer does not mean more than one, but it is an indicator of more than one.

I happen to have Venus Cancer/Moon Pisces and have been married more than once.

Elizabeth Taylor has a Scorpio Moon, 5th House Ruler Mars in Pisces and 7th House Ruler Mercury in Pisces and she married many times.

Note that the 7th House Ruler in a Water Sign in the 2nd House or ruling the 2nd House often indicates (but does not guarantee) that there might be a 2nd marriage because the first spouse died.

A Marriage Significator in the 12th House in square or opposition Mars or Saturn usually means divorce (12th House is Separation/Sorrow) and the likelihood increases if the Signs on the 5th/7th House are Aries, Libra, Cancer or Capricorn, or a Water Sign or other Marriage Significators are in those Signs (those are also indicators of not good marriage).

There are a few other indicators, like Saturn elevated and so on but that should be enough to get you started.
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  #3  
Unread 09-23-2010, 03:22 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Uranus in 1st is too independent to be tied down ... hence no marriage or may be an open relationship
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Unread 09-23-2010, 05:12 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Same thing for Uranus conjunct the Sun, I've always been told. It's not that the native won't marry, but if s/he does, the marriage will in some way be "atypical." There's such a great need for at least a *sense* of freedom on the part of the Sun individual, permanent ties are resisted, such as conventional marriage.

(I know of a guy with this Sun-Uranus conjunction who remains unmarried approaching 40 despite having a Libra Sun, and Venus in the first house, which you'd normally think would indicate a strong desire for marriage. And -- in fact -- it DOES. He WANTS to be married [badly] ... but he can't seem to settle down and find the right girl. In part, that owes to the fact his 1st house Venus is conj. Neptune and both in Sagittarius, but it also owes to an innate tendency to "distance" himself as soon as he feels ANY relationship -- not just a romantic one -- start to solidify into permanence. As a result, he shoots himself in the foot for marriage, but also for close long-term friendships. "Keep it casual" is his modus operandi even while wanting more intellectually.)

Likewise, Uranus in the 7th (esp. if conjunct the Desc.) can indicate one of several things: no marriage, an atypical marriage or a marriage to someone who is as much a friend as a lover, a divorce (maybe several), or marriage to a (notably) younger individual (e.g. more than a couple years' difference). Sometimes it's a combination of these (as it is in my case, in fact, as I have that aspect).
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Unread 09-23-2010, 09:02 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

why Leo is a "bad" sign for marriage?
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Unread 09-23-2010, 09:14 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

I've also read for males the moon aspecting saturn in hard aspect makes the individual inclined not to want to marry... ( Dunno how true this is) But I know a couple of men pushing 40 and haven't married no kids nothing....
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Unread 09-23-2010, 09:52 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by castelo View Post
why Leo is a "bad" sign for marriage?
I don't know about marriage, but I've read before that Leo on the 5th cusp is bad for childbearing and could indicate infertility (the opposite of Cancer). Supposedly the rays of the Sun (ruling it) are too hot. Symbolically, anyway. I've never heard that it's bad for romance, however, when placed there.
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Unread 09-23-2010, 10:28 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dew9 View Post
What indicates no marriage or unhappy marriage in a chart?

Sounds ominous but just thinking what would be termed as someone having a 'bad' marriage in store...or maybe a divorce ...or no marriage at all?
In my view this is almost impossible to answer in light of today's world of easy marriage and divorces. I see it as pointless to answer if you are going to use the info (astrological platitudes or generalizations) as a mis-guiding basis for fear or apprehension. As Bob pointed out, even some people whose birth charts show indicators of commitment, etc, don't necessarily stay married. Birth charts are just that - starting places. What we do to meet our challenges allows for any options to be taken in life that are natural and joyful.

Having a mate is a natural and joyful thing, but in our society (1st world) much emphasis is placed on personal freedom. There is a mate for everyone who wants one regardless of any factor or factors in your birth chart. The only way a birth chart factor is preventive of marriage or will produce unhappiness in it is if you do not meet the challenges shown in your birth chart and cultivate attitudes that build partnership. Some might take longer to arrive at a point in their lives in which they can do this. Believe me, I thought it would be forever, but I finally arrived and have a mate now. BTW, my chart has Uranus in 1st.

So to answer your two part question:

There is no astrological prohibitor of marriage in a birth chart. There are only challenges to relating (some might say karmic issues relating to this). There is no factor(s) prohibiting happiness in marriage either. There are only challenges to be met to learn lessons of love and relating. The conventional astrological indicators show that a person may choose to avoid marriage or complicate it with their own unresolved issues or ego.
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Unread 09-23-2010, 10:36 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

It's scary that BobZemko is soooo right!

In my case it goes like this:

5th and 7th Houses - no planets
5th and 7th House Rulers - Venus (Taurus cusp 5ht) and Moon (Cancer cusp 7th)

and
the Signs and Houses of all of the Significators - Venus in the 8th, Moon in the 10th

"Bad" Houses are the 6th, 8th, 9th and 12th Houses - Venus in the 8th
A Significator in square or opposition to Saturn is "Bad" - Moon (10th) opposition Saturn (4th) - the worse EVER by aspect and house placement since not only that doesn't give any prospects for marriage but I am 41 and I still live with my mother!!!!

Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces are signs that mean "more than one" of anything. When those Signs are on the 5th/7th House Cusps, it increases (but does not guarantee) the chances of more than one marriage. - In my case cancer rules the 7th and it did not bring any MOREs

To summarize: I have been single for all of my life with a few insignificant relationships here and there of course, but the "funny" thing is that men clearly avoid me (even though I am attractive and smart). The only explanation I could find is that they probably somehow feel that I do not bring prospects for marriage, or even if I do, I seem to bring "nothing but trouble".....

I still haven't learned how to outsmart Saturn (I am also Capricorn rising so SATURN rules my 1st house) so I have Saturn limitations affecting every single aspect of my life...

The result is (so far) that I have given up on love, I don't even dare to think about marriage..... even though is very hard for me being Libra with Venus conjunct Pluto with constant and very intensive need to unite with another human being....

And this is why I am "happy" to have discovered this forum and would be grateful if anyone can share experience how to find love/marriage having some or more of the "bad"aspects and where to look for hope....
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Unread 09-24-2010, 01:47 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Hmmmm,

Interesting theories here. Upon reading Spiritwoman's comment about having the WORST aspect ever and still living with her mother, I laughed ( with you) because I feel I am not far behind in having the worst aspect ever too after reading what Kenoshamaensa confirmed about my chart word for word ( I can't figure out how to quote things in these threads - yes I ticked the box.... then I made things disappear! ).. Anyway I have Uranus in the 7th house conjunct descendant in Libra and opposite my Sun ( not sure how this opposition affects things??? ANy ideas? ) also I have Lilith in the 7th in Scorpio just to add a bit more intensity..... I have had the exact relationships described to a T - One relationship with a MUCH younger guy - 13 years my junior and one with a guy 13 years my senior!!! One was more like a friendship, very unusual situation, lots of time apart.... the other was a lover and the most intense on every level ever, but he didn't want to be in a relationship. So I don't know, I would like to think that there is someone who would 'fit' but after reading the posts, I just don't know anything anymore!!!!!!
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Unread 09-24-2010, 02:08 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

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Originally Posted by Nesher View Post
So I don't know, I would like to think that there is someone who would 'fit' but after reading the posts, I just don't know anything anymore!!!!!!
Oh, I think there is someone possible for everyone (in that, I agree with Kanon absolutely). The problem is just that for some people, FINDING that person is harder because there are a narrower pool of possibilities. Chance sometimes plays a role.* For instance, where I live, it's harder for me to find much of a pool for potential love interests. If I lived in a different city, I'd probably have more luck ... but then I wouldn't have a job. *grin*

So we make choices. And we also learn to manage the harder aspects in our charts. Like Spiritwoman, I also have a strong Saturn relating to my ascendant and no natal aspects between Venus and Mars (they share house and sign, so they're in tune with each other, but not in ASPECT with each other). That special "glint" called sex appeal has never been mine. *grin* Likewise, I tend to have a sober mien, although the Pisces sympathy. So despite the fact I'm not especially unattractive, and do have a fair amount of personal charisma, it's not *sex appeal*. I may draw people, but in a Platonic way, and men tend to treat me more as an "honorary man" than as a woman. I was not the girl "chased" much in school.

BUT that said, I actually married -- and married young (at only 21), and stayed married 20 years. It ended badly, but despite bouts of cynicism, have some hope that maybe I'll eventually find a better partner. I learned a lot the first time through. I'd BE a better partner now myself, in addition to hoping to find a better match.

So it's a refining process, and aspects may create "tendencies" but they aren't necessarily blocks. Like my friend I referenced with the strong Sun-Uranus and Sagi Venus ... right now some of what he's struggling with, I think, IS coming to terms with how he fouls his own attempts to find a partner. What he thinks he wants (and is initially attracted to), isn't necessarily what he actually DOES want. If he can reconcile that, he'll probably settle down happily and be a very good, steady marriage partner. He has Taurus on his 7th house cusp, ruled by that 1st house Venus. He just has to sort through the fog of Neptune ... which can give lovely illusions, but they are illusions. (I should know, having a square myself.)

So it may take longer, but we don't know what's coming around the corner.



*I will admit to being somewhat dubious of "fate" because I tend to subscribe to the view postulated by the ancient astronomer/astrologer BarDaisan (of Edessa/Persia), who described human beings (and their charts) as being given certain gifts and also certain limitations ... but then WHAT we do with that being a matter of free will.
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Unread 09-24-2010, 03:48 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica View Post
I've also read for males the moon aspecting saturn in hard aspect makes the individual inclined not to want to marry... ( Dunno how true this is) But I know a couple of men pushing 40 and haven't married no kids nothing....

A friend of mine has Saturn conjoined Moon in Cancer (12th house). He wants to be married ... but no such luck yet. He's 35+ and as far as I know he's been trying since his college days Another factor may be he has Venus Rx in first house, not very sure though.
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Unread 09-24-2010, 01:02 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamtimez View Post
A friend of mine has Saturn conjoined Moon in Cancer (12th house). He wants to be married ... but no such luck yet. He's 35+ and as far as I know he's been trying since his college days Another factor may be he has Venus Rx in first house, not very sure though.

I hate to sound personal rather than objective when it comes, to the way I perceive certain aspects in astrology, But I've on a personal level have had a rough time dealing with with people ( Mostly males with Moon/Saturn aspects) I know @ least three 1, has the conjuction, the other the opposition, and one of my closest friends the square. And there is one thing I've perceived about all of them and Intense fear of intimacy, The moment they sort of let their walls fall a bit down and what a nice potential friendship gets too close... they drift apart, and put a hard brick wall all over again. ( Bigger and stronger than the Berlin Wall).
I think this attitude pushes a lot of people who care or might or would've cared away. I mean, noone likes to be pushed away without explanation out of the blue or being too close one day and ruthlessly cut, yanked off the next. I feel they can hurt others, as the other person perceives to be as insensitive, emotionally cold/distant, and in the worst cases uncaring, and sadly enough although I don't have this aspect natally, but I guess they are hurting too, because it is exactly that defense mechanism, that pushes others apart/away.
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Unread 09-25-2010, 12:05 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

@Veronica ~ You are so right ! This has been my experience too.

I believe this push-pull thing is due early childhood conditioning. The Moon represents the mother. Being associated with Saturn it perhaps signifies some unpleasant experiences with the mother which is projected on to all other women in later life. In my friend's case Saturn being in detriment (Cancer) makes it all the more difficult. However his moon in Cancer is supposed to indicated a deep bond with the mother. This is so confusing !
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Unread 09-26-2010, 04:00 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
The Significators for Marriage are:

Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces are signs that mean "more than one" of anything.

When those Signs are on the 5th/7th House Cusps, it increases (but does not guarantee) the chances of more than one marriage.

When Significators are in those Signs, it increases (but does not guarantee) the chances of more than one marriage.

Elizabeth Taylor has a Scorpio Moon, 5th House Ruler Mars in Pisces and 7th House Ruler Mercury in Pisces and she married many times.
I have 2 planets in the 5th and 3 in the 7th (including Uranus). Cancer on the 5th house Cusp (with my Sun in it) and its ruler, the Moon, in Scorpio in the 7th. My Venus (in Gemini) trines both my Moon and my Mars (and squares my Pluto).
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Unread 09-26-2010, 09:26 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamtimez View Post
Uranus in 1st is too independent to be tied down ... hence no marriage or may be an open relationship
Right. How many chart do you want to see with Uranus in the 1st House and being married? Is 300 enough?

Don't tell Bill Gates. He has Uranus in the 1st House and he's been married 14 years now.

I just don't see what people see in modern astrology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenoshamaensa
Same thing for Uranus conjunct the Sun, I've always been told.
How many charts do you want to see? Robert Englund has been married 3 times.

Another victory for modern astrology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by castelo
why Leo is a "bad" sign for marriage?
It's a Barren Sign.

A single significator in Leo does not mean one will not marry. It simply means there's a possibility one will not marry. And there are more than one significator and the must all be taken into consideration.

Leo on the 1st, 5th or 11th House Cusp or the rulers of the 1st, 5th and 11th Houses in Leo is an indicator of no children for the same reason, that Leo is a Barren Sign. One significator in Leo is not enough to conclude that a person won't have children. You have consider all of the significators and their Signs/Houses (plus any planets on those Houses).

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritwoman
And this is why I am "happy" to have discovered this forum and would be grateful if anyone can share experience how to find love/marriage having some or more of the "bad"aspects and where to look for hope....
Relocation might help. I'm not kidding. You're stuck with Planets as they are, meaning no matter where you go [on Earth] you'll have the Planets in the same Signs and Degrees, but you could change the House Cusps, and that might improve your chances of marriage.

Of course relocation has to be something that's promised in your chart also, and you can look to the 9th House for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamtimez
The Moon represents the mother. Being associated with Saturn it perhaps signifies some unpleasant experiences with the mother which is projected on to all other women in later life. In my friend's case Saturn being in detriment (Cancer) makes it all the more difficult. However his moon in Cancer is supposed to indicated a deep bond with the mother. This is so confusing !
It isn't confusing at all. Saturn Joys in the 12th and can be malicious and being in Detriment in Cancer he is, and so you have a Cadent Saturn in Detriment damaging Moon by conjunction.

In any event the Moon would only represent the mother if it was a Night Chart (you can tell if the Sun is below the Horizon -- in the 1st through 6th Houses up to the Cusp of the 7th House).

If it's a Day Chart then the mother is the 10th House Ruler and Venus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bittermoon
I have 2 planets in the 5th and 3 in the 7th (including Uranus). Cancer on the 5th house Cusp (with my Sun in it) and its ruler, the Moon, in Scorpio in the 7th. My Venus (in Gemini) trines both my Moon and my Mars (and squares my Pluto).
I don't really care about Uranus or Pluto, but the other placements give you good prospects for marriage. Scorpio is a Fixed Sign, so don't panic and buy a catering and florist company thinking it'll be cheaper than hiring a caterer and a florist for all 17 of your marriages.

If you really want to know, then try primary directions to figure out when you'll marry and if you'll marry again (and again).
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Unread 09-26-2010, 10:32 PM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Relocation might help. I'm not kidding. You're stuck with Planets as they are, meaning no matter where you go [on Earth] you'll have the Planets in the same Signs and Degrees, but you could change the House Cusps, and that might improve your chances of marriage.

Of course relocation has to be something that's promised in your chart also, and you can look to the 9th House for that.

Bob, thanks a lot!!! I have been thinking about relocation but the thing is that I don't know HOW to do that. I have (or I think I have) some prospects (aqua cusp 2nd house Uranus conjunct mercury in the 9th) and also Sun conjunct Jupiter in the 9th which gives me a great feeling of being at home abroad. I am trying to use these inclinations by applying for jobs (for 5 years now) but no results so far....

And true, most of the partners and friends were foreigners and all of the employers were foreign companies but always AT HOME and never abroad. As if something or someone persistently wants me to stay here even though I want to "get away"....

As for marrying a foreigner, I don't think I have the typical aspects (Virgo Asc, Venus in Sag or in the 9th, ruler of the 4th, 7th, 5th in aspect to Jupiter or Jupiter in then 7th or connections b/w 7th and 9th and so on...)

So, please look at my chart for any prospects (if any) that I am not able to see...or it's the case that I have a weak Sun (square Mars) and Saturn killing any will and energy to make any advancement in matters related to the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th...

And it's been for some time now that I know am ready to take my chances even if it requires relocation for no (justifiable) reason at all...

Thanks much!
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Unread 09-27-2010, 12:13 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Uranus ruling the 5th and being conj ASC seems to be the reason in my case. 39 y/old, many affairs, but always had cold feet once there was marriage talk. Panicky, actually. Also, ruler of 7th - Mars - in Aqua/5th conj Moon: might be turning a marriage material into an affair material. Although I hear ruler of 7th in 5th = marriage for love. Don`t know. One thing I noticed each and every time - my retro Mars in 5th must be responsible for "back together"s after the break-ups. And I mean, EACH and EVERY TIME.
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Unread 09-27-2010, 12:52 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey729 View Post
Uranus ruling the 5th and being conj ASC seems to be the reason in my case. 39 y/old, many affairs, but always had cold feet once there was marriage talk. Panicky, actually. Also, ruler of 7th - Mars - in Aqua/5th conj Moon: might be turning a marriage material into an affair material. Although I hear ruler of 7th in 5th = marriage for love. Don`t know. One thing I noticed each and every time - my retro Mars in 5th must be responsible for "back together"s after the break-ups. And I mean, EACH and EVERY TIME.
Ruler of 7th in the 5th... Marriage for love, .... the ruler of my 7th is in my 5th the problem is my 7th house ruler is good ol' Saturn, and he is aspecting my sun/mars... by opposition he also squares my Juno in Pisces ( another marriage indicator) I don't think saturn on my 5th is good news, however the thing about bearing children or not being able to have any or complications with saturn on the 5th in my case I didn't have problems only c-section. But then again it depends on the house system if I do it placidus it falls on the 5th, Koch 4th, Equal 4th, Porphyry 5th .. so on....
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Unread 09-27-2010, 12:55 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

well, my 5th ruler sextile my Juno - no cigar anyway
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Unread 09-27-2010, 05:29 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

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Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
It isn't confusing at all. Saturn Joys in the 12th and can be malicious and being in Detriment in Cancer he is, and so you have a Cadent Saturn in Detriment damaging Moon by conjunction.

In any event the Moon would only represent the mother if it was a Night Chart (you can tell if the Sun is below the Horizon -- in the 1st through 6th Houses up to the Cusp of the 7th House).
Its a night time chart. I'll try to post it ... but I need my friend's permission for that.
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Unread 09-27-2010, 08:04 AM
KayBug KayBug is offline
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

I have read, grrrr can't remember where, that bad aspects between Saturn and Chiron can make for a bad/difficult situation in marriage/significant other relationships.
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Unread 09-27-2010, 10:33 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

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Originally Posted by KayBug View Post
I have read, grrrr can't remember where, that bad aspects between Saturn and Chiron can make for a bad/difficult situation in marriage/significant other relationships.
I don't know natally but in synastry the Saturn person can either heal or hurt even more the Chiron person.
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Unread 10-02-2010, 02:28 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

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Originally Posted by spiritwoman View Post
Bob, thanks a lot!!! I have been thinking about relocation but the thing is that I don't know HOW to do that.
You move. You're in Skopje, you have options.

But, you know your chart isn't bad. You have a Cancer 7th House ruled by the Moon in the 10th House in Scorpio. Those are Fruitful Signs. Yes, the Moon is in Fall in Scorpio, but it is opposing Saturn in Taurus, so the Moon receives Saturn by Exaltation.

Saturn is Retrograde, but Angular and in in a neutral Sign. Taurus on the 5th House Cusp is neutral, but Venus is Virgo (a Barren Sign). You have options, I mean it isn't like you can't get married.

Your Directed Ascendant is going to trine Jupiter next year and then 3 years later trine Sun. In fact Directed Asc trine Sun can indicate employment in another country. You have Mercury in the 9th, ruling the 9th House and 4 Planets in Moveable (Cardinal) Signs, so relocate if you want.

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Originally Posted by spiritwoman View Post
As for marrying a foreigner, I don't think I have the typical aspects (Virgo Asc, Venus in Sag or in the 9th, ruler of the 4th, 7th, 5th in aspect to Jupiter or Jupiter in then 7th or connections b/w 7th and 9th and so on...)
You might want to re-check your Chart.

Your Moon is at 2 Scorpio. You're 41, so that makes 43 Scorpio, or 13 Sagittarius, which means Directed Moon is going to sextile natal Jupiter and then natal Sun about 2 years after that and Directed Moon will be in your 11th House in Sagittarius (which is a lot better than Scorpio) and you very well could be marrying a foreigner.
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Unread 10-02-2010, 02:37 AM
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Re: What indicates no marriage in a chart?

No marriage can be indicated by Virgo on the descendant, no planets in the 7th, the ruler of the 7th challenged. Bad marriage or separations belong with Uranus in the 7th and Saturn...... Mars there can mean violence and aggression. THere are many indicators. A challenged Moon for difficult domestic conditions. A challenged Venus and to Saturn can mean no love or marrying for practical reasons or later in life.

The 5th house indicates lovers and romance or not.... That can develop into the committed partnership of the 7th.

Sun and Moon in bad aspect makes relationships difficult as the person's yin and yang are out of balance and finds compromise difficult and equanimity.
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