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  #1  
Unread 07-01-2019, 12:27 PM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Are we over for good?

We had a blow-up and broke up for good.
He asked me to move on so I said 'ok, goodbye' and deleted his number.
But he refused to delete mine... said he won't say goodbye and asked if I would remember him fondly and be nice if we meet again.
I said I won't as I felt very hurt... so I just wanna forget him & would ignore him if we meet again.

I knew he was hurt by what I said, and he has been avoiding me since.

I felt that we're over because we haven't met/spoken for 3 weeks, but my friends didn't think so as our feelings seemed to be still lingering.

What do you see in the chart?

-----------

His sig in his 12H shows he's hiding from me(?) but who is Venus there? Me or another gal? If I were to take Venus as my co-sig, then Neptune on 3rd cusp square Moon/Venus seems to indicate the confusing last convo we had (possibly also deception e.g. when I said I would forget him it wasn't true). Chiron squares also indicate the hurt feelings.

What does Nodes on the Asc/Dsc axis mean? And what about Mars/Mercury in his 1H?
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Last edited by ellie04; 07-01-2019 at 12:50 PM.
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Unread 07-01-2019, 08:42 PM
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Re: Are we over for good?

I think it is over and he is being disingenous, telling you to move on while asking you to remember him fondly? What kind of twisted thinking is that?
The chart suggests that he does not think of you fondly: he/Moon receives you/Saturn poorly. And your two planets are disjunct, do not aspect.
I would forget this guy as quickly as I could!
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Unread 07-02-2019, 04:34 AM
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Re: Are we over for good?

SN on Ascendant shows you are in an unfortunate state or some unfortunate "losing out" of something...your significator, Saturn, in it's own sign is strong, but it being retrograde shows you are reconsidering or having second thoughts. Your significator in his significator, the Moon's, detriment would show that you do not think fondly of him at this time. However, you are also in his triplicity, so this shows ambivalence towards him, or simultanious like and dislike .

The chart shows he likes you. You are in his term. Term, however, is just barely considered "like". By day, you are in his triplicity, and some astrologers believe both triplicities are in effect no matter time of day... i am on the fence about that one though, so take what you will.
Triplicity is a warm "like". But the important thing is he does not dislike you at this time, rather you do him, which is understandable. Him being in the turned 12th (his 12th) does show that he has some secret agenda, probably.

Your other significator, Venus, is with the him, the Moon. The Moon will be joining Venus in 6 Units. Venus is you as a woman, your physical and psychological womanhood and sexuality. This shows a meetup is likely and his motivation for the meetup is for... you guessed it... sex.

This is further confirmed by his significator, the Moon, antiscia the Sun, which is the significator for his "manhood" and sexuality.

Antiscia is like a conjunction but more hidden. This shows his hidden motives.

You will likely meet up with him in 6 days or 6 weeks.

Last edited by FireNwater; 07-02-2019 at 05:05 AM.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 06:49 AM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Are we over for good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I think it is over and I he is being disingenous, telling you to move on while asking you to remember him fondly? What kind of twisted thinking is that?
The chart suggests that he does not think of you fondly: he/Moon receives you/Saturn poorly. And your two planets are disjunct, do not aspect.
I would forget this guy as quickly as I could!
Ya, I know it sounds twisted. He's always very anxious when I'm mad at him.

Strange you said he does not think of me fondly because in reality, I'm the one mad at him and telling him I don't wish to see his face while he's the one who wants to remain cordial.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 07:49 AM
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Re: Are we over for good?

Moon next aspecting your 5th ruler Venus, shows its not over for good.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 07:52 AM
FireNwater FireNwater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post

Strange you said he does not think of me fondly because in reality, I'm the one mad at him and telling him I don't wish to see his face while he's the one who wants to remain cordial.
That is what the chart shows. When people who do not follow Frawleys take on the nature of receptions try to explain like, dislike, love, loathe, it just doesnt work.

I've tested it a lot.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 07:59 AM
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Re: Are we over for good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireNwater View Post
That is what the chart shows. When people who do not follow Frawleys take on the nature of receptions try to explain like, dislike, love, loathe, it just doesnt work.
What did Frawley say, can you enlighten me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireNwater View Post
SN on Ascendant shows you are in an unfortunate state or some unfortunate "losing out" of something...your significator, Saturn, in it's own sign is strong, but it being retrograde shows you are reconsidering or having second thoughts. Your significator in his significator, the Moon's, detriment would show that you do not think fondly of him at this time. However, you are also in his triplicity, so this shows ambivalence towards him, or simultanious like and dislike .

The chart shows he likes you. You are in his term. Term, however, is just barely considered "like". By day, you are in his triplicity, and some astrologers believe both triplicities are in effect no matter time of day... i am on the fence about that one though, so take what you will.
Triplicity is a warm "like". But the important thing is he does not dislike you at this time, rather you do him, which is understandable. Him being in the turned 12th (his 12th) does show that he has some secret agenda, probably.

Your other significator, Venus, is with the him, the Moon. The Moon will be joining Venus in 6 Units. Venus is you as a woman, your physical and psychological womanhood and sexuality. This shows a meetup is likely and his motivation for the meetup is for... you guessed it... sex.

This is further confirmed by his significator, the Moon, antiscia the Sun, which is the significator for his "manhood" and sexuality.

Antiscia is like a conjunction but more hidden. This shows his hidden motives.

You will likely meet up with him in 6 days or 6 weeks.

You're spot-on about my current love/hate feelings towards him and I do miss him. I believe he doesn't hate me (he has admitted to always having a soft spot for me) although I don't know how much he still likes me.

It's interesting this is the 2nd time I got a Saturn-Moon Horary about him (even our First Meeting chart has Saturn-Moon on the Asc/Dsc axis). This combination seems to indicate we dislike each other but in reality (although I can't speak for him) I love him no matter how angry/disappointed I am with him.

But rationally speaking, I don't have anything to lose with this breakup, especially if the chart shows that he doesn't really like me but only thinking of sex. Then this breakup is a fortunate thing for me, isn't it? Maybe it's just indicating that I feel this is over (losing him)?

What you said about Moon-Venus resonated with my 6th sense - that we might meet again and be drawn back tog due to our strong physical attraction. This is my fear too because I don't want us to go back to arguing which really upset us both. Plus if his feelings have faded and just want sex with me, all the more I don't wanna go back to him.

6 days/weeks? OMG, I'm not ready.

Thanks for your insights anyway!

Last edited by ellie04; 07-02-2019 at 12:19 PM.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 01:19 PM
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Re: Are we over for good?

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Originally Posted by FireNwater View Post
That is what the chart shows. When people who do not follow Frawleys take on the nature of receptions try to explain like, dislike, love, loathe, it just doesnt work.

I've tested it a lot.
Totally agree.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 01:29 PM
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Re: Are we over for good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
What did Frawley say, can you enlighten me?
reception by:

exaltation = exaggerated like (infatuation)
sign = strong like (love)
triplicity = like (friendship)
term = positive interest
face = minor interest
peregrine = indifferent
detriment = strong dislike
fall = exaggerated dislike
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  #10  
Unread 07-02-2019, 03:27 PM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Are we over for good?

Thanks for the explanation. I'm sometimes confused about who feels what for who?

Here FireNwater explains that his sig in my triplicity & detriment represents a mixed of like/dislike on my part. But on other threads I saw some said it was the other way round for them. One member also cited a Horary e.g. where both sigs were in each others' detriment but in reality it turned out that both had wanted to reconcile but thought the other party was angry.

Receptions in Horary is still pretty confusing to me...
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Unread 07-02-2019, 03:49 PM
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Re: Are we over for good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I think it is over and he is being disingenous, telling you to move on while asking you to remember him fondly? What kind of twisted thinking is that?
The chart suggests that he does not think of you fondly: he/Moon receives you/Saturn poorly. And your two planets are disjunct, do not aspect.
I would forget this guy as quickly as I could!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
Ya, I know it sounds twisted. He's always very anxious when I'm mad at him.

Strange you said he does not think of me fondly because in reality, I'm the one mad at him and telling him I don't wish to see his face while he's the one who wants to remain cordial.
Yes, but you wrote that he started it;
"He asked me to move on "
That is the part where he does not think fondly of you. The fact that he wants to keep it cordial after asking you to move on, equates to me something less than thinking fondly. It points more to his not wanting to be a cad, rather than a true fondness for you. This is based on traditional [non-Frawley] reception between you and him in the chart.
You as Saturn and him as Moon do not aspect, and he as Moon meets Venus next. So I think he will meet someone else. Further, Moon, as indicator of the question's unfolding, is void of course, so not much will change from what is between you now.
You will be able to judge it best when you see the final outcome of your relationship with him.
I am wishing you the best and please keep us posted.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 03:59 PM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Are we over for good?

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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Yes, but you wrote that he started it;
"He asked me to move on "
That is the part where he does not think fondly of you. The fact that he wants to keep it cordial after asking you to move on, equates to me something less than thinking fondly. It points more to his not wanting to be a cad, rather than a true fondness for you. This is based on traditional [non-Frawley] reception between you and him in the chart.
You as Saturn and him as Moon do not aspect, and he as Moon meets Venus next. So I think he will meet someone else. Further, Moon, as indicator of the question's unfolding, is void of course, so not much will change from what is between you now.
You will be able to judge it best when you see the final outcome of your relationship with him.
I am wishing you the best and please keep us posted.
I didn't say he started the argument. I was trying to keep the long story short by just writing the highlights. This also isn't the first time he has asked me to move on but we patched back. But this is the first time we were both adamant about breaking up.

So I'm more confused now... Venus isn't me?

Anyway, I'll update what happens 6 days/weeks/months later... thanks.

Last edited by ellie04; 07-02-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 05:20 PM
FireNwater FireNwater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
What did Frawley say, can you enlighten me?




You're spot-on about my current love/hate feelings towards him and I do miss him. I believe he doesn't hate me (he has admitted to always having a soft spot for me) although I don't know how much he still likes me.

It's interesting this is the 2nd time I got a Saturn-Moon Horary about him (even our First Meeting chart has Saturn-Moon on the Asc/Dsc axis). This combination seems to indicate we dislike each other but in reality (although I can't speak for him) I love him no matter how angry/disappointed I am with him.

But rationally speaking, I don't have anything to lose with this breakup, especially if the chart shows that he doesn't really like me but only thinking of sex. Then this breakup is a fortunate thing for me, isn't it? Maybe it's just indicating that I feel this is over (losing him)?

What you said about Moon-Venus resonated with my 6th sense - that we might meet again and be drawn back tog due to our strong physical attraction. This is my fear too because I don't want us to go back to arguing which really upset us both. Plus if his feelings have faded and just want sex with me, all the more I don't wanna go back to him.

6 days/weeks? OMG, I'm not ready.

Thanks for your insights anyway!
He does still have some positive feelings toward you as shown by the Moon in the term of Saturn. The thing about feelings is that they can change and pretty quickly too. Feelings can be pretty transient. Don't you agree? Can't you be intensely upset with someone and eventually get over it? Of course you can!

With this chart, you asked if it was over between you guys. You didn't ask if he still loves you. So the chart answered if you are over. It shows that, no, you are not over, or he would not be moving toward Venus.

Venus is NOT another woman. It is you. As I said, this represents your womanhood and all that entails, physically and psychologically. In a relationship chart, the woman's secondary significator (no less important than the main significator, which represents your mind and you as a thinking person,) is always Venus if the woman is querent. If the querent is a man, the secondary significator, representing his manly stuff, is the Sun.

The only time that isn't true is if Venus were taken by a quesited.


The meet-up happens in 6 units. I think it's 6 weeks. Venus and Moon are in a caden house= fast. A mutable sign= medium. Fast + medium = medium time unit. So if we were talking days, weeks, months, we get the medium timeframe. I am sure we aren't taking weeks months years...years would be too long. Therefore,most likely you see him again in 6 weeks.

Last edited by FireNwater; 07-02-2019 at 05:26 PM.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 05:32 PM
FireNwater FireNwater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
I didn't say he started the argument. I was trying to keep the long story short by just writing the highlights. This also isn't the first time he has asked me to move on but we patched back. But this is the first time we were both adamant about breaking up.

So I'm more confused now... Venus isn't me?

Anyway, I'll update what happens 6 days/weeks/months later... thanks.
Don't be confused. Read Frawley's Horary textbook. Horary is simple. The chart says everything you need to know. There is nothing in the chart saying he is a twisted person. He would be in his own fall or detriment if he were. If you still want him sexually, isn't it a good thing that he is coming toward Venus? A lot of people use sex to make up. Sex is natural.

This chart shows a hook-up but it doesn't answer what happens after that. You would need another chart for that.

Last edited by FireNwater; 07-02-2019 at 05:39 PM.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Yes, but you wrote that he started it;
"He asked me to move on "
That is the part where he does not think fondly of you. The fact that he wants to keep it cordial after asking you to move on, equates to me something less than thinking fondly. It points more to his not wanting to be a cad, rather than a true fondness for you. This is based on traditional [non-Frawley] reception between you and him in the chart.
You as Saturn and him as Moon do not aspect, and he as Moon meets Venus next. So I think he will meet someone else. Further, Moon, as indicator of the question's unfolding, is void of course, so not much will change from what is between you now.
You will be able to judge it best when you see the final outcome of your relationship with him.
I am wishing you the best and please keep us posted.

Moon is not Void of Course. Moon is moving toward Venus in the same sign.

I don't think it is right to say he is being cad and therefore it shows he doesn't like her or he is twisted or whatever. In reality, we can make up whatever we want if we want to go on our subjective impressions, but the chart is what tells the real story. The chart doesn't say anything like that. How do you know he was being cad?

I can make up a reason for his telling you to move on... maybe he just felt you guys wanted different things... maybe ?

I mean there are all kinds of reasons people breakup. There is also nothing wrong with breaking up and wanting to stay friends. Or not wanting the other person to hate you. Or to...maybe...to even feel ambivalent and need a break. Maybe he said he doesnt want you to get over him because he isnt quite over you yet. Also, people sometimes say the wrong thing..you know, not because they are twisted and want to harm you, but maybe because they don't know how to say.... "look, I like you, but I am not sure if I want a relationship with you, and I need some time out. Will you please not give up on me while I think about what I want. I just need to sort it out." Instead they say, I want to break up, and when you say -- okay fine then it's over-- they say, but I don't want you to be over me.

People are sometimes not good at saying it like it is. Doesnt always equate to twisted or cad, although we can take it that way.

With horary, we don't give a reading based on our subjective impressions and biases but we give a reading based on what the chart says.

Last edited by FireNwater; 07-02-2019 at 06:10 PM.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 06:04 PM
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Re: Are we over for good?

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Originally Posted by FireNwater View Post
He does still have some positive feelings toward you as shown by the Moon in the term of Saturn. The thing about feelings is that they can change and pretty quickly too. Feelings can be pretty transient. Don't you agree? Can't you be intensely upset with someone and eventually get over it? Of course you can!

With this chart, you asked if it was over between you guys. You didn't ask if he still loves you. So the chart answered if you are over. It shows that, no, you are not over, or he would not be moving toward Venus.

Venus is NOT another woman. It is you. As I said, this represents your womanhood and all that entails, physically and psychologically. In a relationship chart, the woman's secondary significator (no less important than the main significator, which represents your mind and you as a thinking person,) is always Venus if the woman is querent. If the querent is a man, the secondary significator, representing his manly stuff, is the Sun.

The only time that isn't true is if Venus were taken by a quesited.


The meet-up happens in 6 units. I think it's 6 weeks. Venus and Moon are in a caden house= fast. A mutable sign= medium. Fast + medium = medium time unit. So if we were talking days, weeks, months, we get the medium timeframe. I am sure we aren't taking weeks months years...years would be too long. Therefore,most likely you see him again in 6 weeks.

Thanks for the clarification! If we were to meet again, I would think 6 weeks is a more favourable timeframe (to me) as I've yet to sort out my own feelings. Although I'm also afraid that he might hookup with someone else but I guess this is a risk I need to take.

Yes, you're right that feelings can be pretty transient and we're a good e.g. Four days before we broke up we were reaffirming our feelings for each other and then we suddenly argued and broke up. My friends were shocked. *sob* Also, one week ago I was cursing him under my breathe and now I'm wishing to see him again.

If the make-up sex leads to something more, of cos that's a good thing. I just hope that it doesn't turn into a just-sex-no-feelings relationship. His natal is heavy water/Cancer so it doesn't seem like he does sex w/o feelings but well... he might just surprise me.

Anyway, no matter how it turns out... thanks for your interpretation and encouragement.

P/S: Interestingly, about 6 weeks from now is when tJupiter goes direct and it rules my natal Dsc.

Last edited by ellie04; 07-02-2019 at 06:20 PM.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
Thanks for the clarification! If we were to meet again, I would think 6 weeks is a more favourable timeframe (to me) as I've yet to sort out my own feelings. Although I'm also afraid that he might hookup with someone else but it's a risk I think I need to take.

Yes, you're right that feelings can be pretty transient and we're a good e.g. Four days before we broke up we were reaffirming our feelings for each other and then we suddenly argued and broke up. My friends were shocked. *sob* Also, one week ago I was cursing him under my breathe and now I'm wishing to see him again.

If the make-up sex leads to something more, of cos that's a good thing. I just hope that it doesn't turn into a just-sex-no-feelings relationship. His natal is heavy water/Cancer so it doesn't seem like he does sex w/o feelings but well... he might just surprise me.

Anyway, no matter how it turns out... thanks for your interpretation and encouragement.

I would recommend pulling up another chart asking if you'll be together again. Not just, is it over, but will you have a relationship again.

Don't do it in haste. Think on it and pull the chart when the time feels right. I will help you out again.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 06:37 PM
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Re: Are we over for good?

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Originally Posted by FireNwater View Post
I would recommend pulling up another chart asking if you'll be together again. Not just, is it over, but will you have a relationship again.

Don't do it in haste. Think on it and pull the chart when the time feels right. I will help you out again.
Thanks, you've been most helpful.

Since I've just done this horary I'll let it play out first. I'll need some time to sort out my feelings about him anyway.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 06:55 PM
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Thanks, you've been most helpful.

Since I've just done this horary I'll let it play out first. I'll need some time to sort out my feelings about him anyway.
You're welcome. You can find John Frawley's Horary Textbook in PDF form online. Look up internet archives, john frawley horary textbook.

There is nothing wrong with traditional horary and Frawley pulls most of his work from it, but he lays it all out in very easy to understand language. Traditional is much harder to understand due to the language that's used and some of the apparent contradictions. Frawley clarifies many of the contradictions and puts it in simple and easy to understand language.

Like, dislike, love and hate, etc, does not make sense at all when traditionalists try to apply it, because a planet recieving is not the same thing as like or love in the way we see it today. Traditional teachings do not explain this very well. You also have to think about how love was viewed in the 1600's...times have actually changed. In the 1600's, I wonder if generally people regarded love in the same way they do now. If reception equalled love in the 1600's, what does that say about the values of that time period? Just something to ponder... reception only shows passivity...you're getting something, recieving something. But it doesnt really show desire. What we love, we desire.

I think waiting to see how everythjng plays out sounds like a smart plan. If you decide to pull up another chart, and I'm still around, I'll take a look.

Last edited by FireNwater; 07-02-2019 at 07:08 PM.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 08:44 PM
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Re: Are we over for good?

Dear FireWater,

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Yes, but you wrote that he started it;
"He asked me to move on "
That is the part where he does not think fondly of you. The fact that he wants to keep it cordial after asking you to move on, equates to me something less than thinking fondly. It points more to his not wanting to be a cad, rather than a true fondness for you. This is based on traditional [non-Frawley] reception between you and him in the chart.
You as Saturn and him as Moon do not aspect, and he as Moon meets Venus next. So I think he will meet someone else. Further, Moon, as indicator of the question's unfolding, is void of course, so not much will change from what is between you now.
You will be able to judge it best when you see the final outcome of your relationship with him.
I am wishing you the best and please keep us posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireNwater View Post
Moon is not Void of Course. Moon is moving toward Venus in the same sign.

I don't think it is right to say he is being cad and therefore it shows he doesn't like her or he is twisted or whatever. How do you know he was being cad?



People are sometimes not good at saying it like it is. Doesnt always equate to twisted or cad, although we can take it that way.

With horary, we don't give a reading based on our subjective impressions and biases but we give a reading based on what the chart says.
Your point is well-taken regarding Moon not being VOC. Thank you.

I would mention that you misread my post: I did not describe him as a cad. I said that his behaviour points more toward his not wanting to be a cad. Rather than blowing her off after telling her "to move on, " he chose to say "but let's be amicable." That doesn't suggest that he continues to have romantic feelings for her. And quite honestly, it's a lot to ask and usually can't be achieved by most broken-up couples because one or both are too angry or hurt. All of this freely reported, subjective information from client has to be processed and built into the delineation of the chart.

How do I sense that he is finished with her? The reception from him as Moon to her as Saturn, donned in the sign of Capricorn, the sign of his/Moon's detriment. This is an unfavorable response to her, however you choose to describe it. And not only do their primary significators not aspect, they are disjunct. They do not see eye-to-eye. There is a significant breach between them.
I've referred to the client's subjective reporting and would conclude by suggesting that the very act of delineation is a subjective impression. The chart and the astrologer's impression of it cannot be separated and the astrologer's impression can only be subjective.

You wrote:
In reality, we can make up whatever we want if we want to go on our subjective impressions, but the chart is what tells the real story. The chart doesn't say anything like that.
I think I have explained in simple and clear astrological methodology how I subjectively analyse a chart based on the "objective" rules of astrology. I use the symbolism that I have learned over 25 years of experience with astrology and then do a gestalt-like take on the chart. It is clearly subjective combined with some somewhat objective "facts" of astrological symbolism. I can't see how it could be any other way: I am guilty as charged about being subjective.

If you look carefully at how you delineate, if you are not creatively making up a story about the chart, then I have to wonder what you actually doing?

Thank you for patiently reading this.
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"You gotta have heart..." Richard Adler 1921-2012

Last edited by IleneK; 07-02-2019 at 08:47 PM.
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  #21  
Unread 07-02-2019, 10:11 PM
FireNwater FireNwater is offline
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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Dear FireWater,





Your point is well-taken regarding Moon not being VOC. Thank you.

I would mention that you misread my post: I did not describe him as a cad. I said that his behaviour points more toward his not wanting to be a cad. Rather than blowing her off after telling her "to move on, " he chose to say "but let's be amicable." That doesn't suggest that he continues to have romantic feelings for her. And quite honestly, it's a lot to ask and usually can't be achieved by most broken-up couples because one or both are too angry or hurt. All of this freely reported, subjective information from client has to be processed and built into the delineation of the chart.

How do I sense that he is finished with her? The reception from him as Moon to her as Saturn, donned in the sign of Capricorn, the sign of his/Moon's detriment. This is an unfavorable response to her, however you choose to describe it. And not only do their primary significators not aspect, they are disjunct. They do not see eye-to-eye. There is a significant breach between them.
I've referred to the client's subjective reporting and would conclude by suggesting that the very act of delineation is a subjective impression. The chart and the astrologer's impression of it cannot be separated and the astrologer's impression can only be subjective.

You wrote:
In reality, we can make up whatever we want if we want to go on our subjective impressions, but the chart is what tells the real story. The chart doesn't say anything like that.
I think I have explained in simple and clear astrological methodology how I subjectively analyse a chart based on the "objective" rules of astrology. I use the symbolism that I have learned over 25 years of experience with astrology and then do a gestalt-like take on the chart. It is clearly subjective combined with some somewhat objective "facts" of astrological symbolism. I can't see how it could be any other way: I am guilty as charged about being subjective.

If you look carefully at how you delineate, if you are not creatively making up a story about the chart, then I have to wonder what you actually doing?

Thank you for patiently reading this.

Well, lets look at the context. You are right that the main significators are not aspecting and that means they are not seeing each other, or not seeing eye to eye as you put it. Of course they aren't! They aren't together right now.

Her regard toward him is mixed and his regard toward her is favorable enough, especially considering he didn't get what he wanted from her which was a more amicable split.

Yes, I did misread your post about calling him a cad, sorry. I did read your post saying he did a twisted thing and she should forget him. I thought you were still going off of that point.

When you look at the chart, you can clearly see his moving toward Venus, which in my opinion, is her. If Venus were recieving the Moon, we would see a stronger incination to act, but the fact that he is moving toward her,shows that he is coming for her. Moon antiscia the Sun shows his motivation... sex. Which doesn't have to be a bad thing. She said she has been thinking about it.

This chart is showing is that right now they aren't together-- makes sense-- they are in inconjunct signs-- they are not. But look at the actual question.
The question was "is it really over?" Not "will we live happily ever after?" Or "does he love me?"

The important thing is it shows it's not really over and it shows when they will meet.

You can think Venus is someone else, but I strongly strongly doubt it. We will see how it plays out. Hopefully the querent updates.


About subjectivity, I don't really follow your logic, I'm sorry. I don't make up stories about what a chart says based on *how what he did to her, or she said she did, or what he didn't do subjectively made me feel* or based on my own values or biases. I don't say that what someone did is "twisted", especially if the chart doesn't show that. I look at what is *specifically* asked and answer a question based on a set of very straightforward rules.

Last edited by FireNwater; 07-03-2019 at 04:54 AM.
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IleneK (07-02-2019)
  #22  
Unread 07-02-2019, 11:02 PM
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IleneK IleneK is offline
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Re: Are we over for good?

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Originally Posted by FireNwater View Post
Well, lets look at the context. You are right that the main significators are not aspecting and that means they are not seeing each other, or not seeing eye to eye as you put it. Of course they aren't! They aren't together right now.

Her regard toward him is mixed and his regard toward her is favorable enough, especially considering he didn't get what he wanted from her which was a more amiable split.

Yes, I did misread your post about calling him a cad, sorry. I did read your post saying he did a twisted thing and she should forget him. I thought you were still going off of that point.

I get your point that the querent said he just wanted to remain amicable, but again, when you looking at the chart, you can clearly see his moving toward Venus, which in my opinion is her. If Venus were recieving the Moon, we would see a stronger incination to act, but the fact that it is him moving toward her,shows that he is coming for her. Moon antiscia the Sun shows his motivation... sex. Which doesn't have to be a bad thing. She said she has been thinking about it.

Maybe all this chart is showing is that right now they aren't together-- makes sense-- they are in inconjunct signs-- they are not. But look at the actual question.
The question "is it really over?" Not "will we live happily ever after?" Or "does he love me?"

The important thing is it shows it's not really over and it shows when they will meet.

You can think Venus is someone else, but I strongly strongly doubt it. We will see how it plays out. Hopefully the querent updates.


About subjectivity, I don't really follow your logic, I'm sorry. I don't make up stories about what a chart says based on *how what he did to her or she said she did or he did or didn't do or whatever subjectively made me feel.* or based on my own values or biases. i don't say that what someone did is "twisted" especially if the chart doesn't show that. I look at what is *specifically* asked and answer a question based on a set of very straightforward rules.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
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"You gotta have heart..." Richard Adler 1921-2012
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Unread 07-03-2019, 04:35 AM
FireNwater FireNwater is offline
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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
You are welcome. Thanks for yours as well.
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  #24  
Unread 07-03-2019, 10:12 AM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: Are we over for good?

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Originally Posted by FireNwater View Post
Like, dislike, love and hate, etc, does not make sense at all when traditionalists try to apply it, because a planet recieving is not the same thing as like or love in the way we see it today. Traditional teachings do not explain this very well. You also have to think about how love was viewed in the 1600's...times have actually changed. In the 1600's, I wonder if generally people regarded love in the same way they do now. If reception equalled love in the 1600's, what does that say about the values of that time period? Just something to ponder... reception only shows passivity...you're getting something, recieving something. But it doesnt really show desire. What we love, we desire.
Even in modern times, people's perception of love varies. One person's idea of love may not be another's. And some people's expressions of love can be very... complex.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll go look it up.
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  #25  
Unread 07-03-2019, 09:23 PM
FireNwater FireNwater is offline
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Originally Posted by ellie04 View Post
Even in modern times, people's perception of love varies. One person's idea of love may not be another's. And some people's expressions of love can be very... complex.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll go look it up.
Very true.
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