will we have sex?

oleanna

Well-known member
My sisters question: will we have sex?

The man is an old flame of hers, they separated, he was with someone else, she as well. My sister does not know about his private life right now, she just heard of him being in town soon and made the chart.

I see her as Saturn r, - probably willing to go back? - in the 10th, ruled by Mars (Mars in the 7th), in moons fall.

The guy is moon, on the ASC, (for the modern horary lovers: Pluto sits there as well and will conjunct with moon very soon)
he's weak, in exile here, (and in Mars' exaltation.)

Moon will conjunct the ASC, then oppose Mars, and her last aspect is a sextile with Saturn.

How should i read this all? Will they come together physically? And will they hurt each other by doing so?
That's more or less what i see, but i feel not clear, it's my sisters wish, and i feel too involved.
Please help!
 

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Dirius

Well-known member
You read it the same as any relationship question.

Saturn = querent
Moon = quesited

Applying sextile, giving a yes.

Moon in the sign of Saturn showing good receptions, implies he still has feelings.

However your sister's planet (Saturn) in moon's fall implies she feels something wrong about him. Mainly Mars, which is placed inside the 7th house. It is possible the man is with another woman too. Incidentally, Capricorn happens to be Mars exaltation.

Thus he has feelings for both the querent amd his other woman.

However since the Moon is in applying opposition with Mars, might indicate they may split soon (or already had since the chart was cast), and the man will be contacting her soon after.

Anyways, the sextile does imply a yes.
 

oleanna

Well-known member
Thanks a lot,Dirius.
What does "something wrong " mean? The fact that she might not see he is with someone else?
Or more that she was not able to see his true self?
I am often unsure to read receptions the right way.
Thanks for your help.

- i felt confused with all the planets in 7th house.
 

oleanna

Well-known member
May i ask again, how do you read the receptions here?
Is her Saturn in moons fall negative?
Or does it mean the guy will feel not sure about her emotions?
Since this is a bit what had ended their connection a year ago.

I'll be grateful for your comments!
 

tsmall

Premium Member
Hello oleanna, sorry it took me so long to reply. With your permission I am posting my reply based on the questions you pm'd me.

The first question you asked me was about the size of the houses, and whether or not I thought you should use whole signs for horary charts.

My answer for this is that you do consistantly get distorted houses at your location using regio, and probably any quadrant based house system. Personally, after reading the works of many ancient astrologers, I use both. That is to say, there was a distinct difference when Saul and Ezra and Masha'Allah were talking about places vs. houses. The places are the signs topically assigned as houses. The houses as we know them today are divided by cusps, and those change (aside from the ASC and MC, which are the same no matter what) depending on what flavor house system you prefer. My biggest beef with that is the chart is the chart is the chart, and significators shouldn't be different in different house systems.

That said, counting signs, or places, to find significators makes the most sense to me. As I have found this method to work, I'm not likely to change it.

Your next question was based on my reply to your pm, in that I suggested that you needed to look at the ruler of the 5th, since this chart was specifically about sex, and sex as a pleasurable act is the provence of the 5th house. You also expressed concern that because your sister/querent has a past history with this person you were concerned that there was some subtext in the question.

I understand that you felt a wee bit subjective with this chart based on what you know of the querent's history with this person, but that can be both a good and a bad thing. Good because you don't have to ask a million background questions to get the whole picture, bad because your personal opinion of the quesited/situation can color your reading. Your sister asked a bald faced question: Will we have sex. You understood as a sister that there could be subtext in the question, but as the astrologer did you ask for clarification? I only say this because it does help to know what the querent really wants from the quesited before you give her the answer. Is she really looking for it to be something more, or is she looking for a terrific romp in the hay?

So, let's look at the chart. The querent/your sister gets Saturn, in his second station in the 11th house. The guy gets Moon, emplaced in the 1st house (emplacement is when the quesited is in the ASC. For example, if you are asking about a job and the planet ruling the job is in the ascendant, then usually no matter what the rest of the chart says the answer is yes. In lost object horaries, if the missing object's significator is in the ASC, especially retrograde, then the answer is you will find it without trying. ) But in this case, the thing sought based on the question isn't the Moon, but rather Venus, because the question is clearly and specifically about sex. Venus rules the 5th sign, and therefor our chart is this

sister=Saturn, rx but in second station
guy=Moon, debilitated in Capricorn, applying to sextile rx Saturn who is in Moon's descension, albeit to a sextile.
thing sought=sex=Venus, just in her 1st station, wildly out of sect, separating from a square to rx Saturn who is in her debility after which she moves into his. Venus applying to conjunction with Jupiter, who rules the 12th of self undoing and is the exaltation ruler of the 7th.

You never really want to see the Moon applying to a planet in her fall, and when that planet is Saturn rx...just ick. Especially when the Moon is in Capricorn, her detriment.

It's really looking like it's in your sister's hands. As in, the significator of the person she's asking about is in the ASC, applying to a sextile with shakey reception to her, and if we check Bonatti's table it's the easiest manner of perfection out there. But you are right in your concerns, in that this relationship is a non-starter. There will be no anything else afterwards. So it is really in your sister's best interest to walk into something with eyes wide open. If she wants to have no strings attached sex with this guy then she can. But the odds are it will cause her more harm than a moment's pleasure is worth. You can caution her that it's not in her best interests to do this, but then again, since when do sister's listen to each other?

Was there a history of violence in this relationship? You asked via pm about the size of the 7th house in regio, and most of those 7th house planets, including the 5th sign ruler, are in the 8th sign, 7th house. This is a bit disturbing.
 

oleanna

Well-known member
Dear Tsmall, thanks a lot for this long and very helpful answer!
I just got home and read it all, and understand most of it;) -

My answer for this is that you do consistantly get distorted houses at your location using regio, and probably any quadrant based house system. Personally, after reading the works of many ancient astrologers, I use both. That is to say, there was a distinct difference when Saul and Ezra and Masha'Allah were talking about places vs. houses. The places are the signs topically assigned as houses. The houses as we know them today are divided by cusps, and those change (aside from the ASC and MC, which are the same no matter what) depending on what flavor house system you prefer. My biggest beef with that is the chart is the chart is the chart, and significators shouldn't be different in different house systems.

That explains it very well and i think it makes it much easier for me in future to deal with the place/house theme in general.
I had sometimes strangely wide houses and wouldn't know how to handle it.
Thanks for that!

So, let's look at the chart. The querent/your sister gets Saturn, in his second station in the 11th house.
thing sought=sex=Venus, just in her 1st station, wildly out of sect,

What does "First /second station" mean? I feel stupid, but i don't get it.
And "out of sect"? - I tried to find both in the net but somehow failed, or didn't understand the explanations given.

separating from a square to rx Saturn who is in her debility after which she moves into his.

This describes in a way what happened to my sister with this man, a year ago, -
when now Venus will move into Saturns rx debility, could i read this as he would maybe feel a bit like she felt after they finished their relationship?As if they would change places, change positions?

Was there a history of violence in this relationship? You asked via pm about the size of the 7th house in regio, and most of those 7th house planets, including the 5th sign ruler, are in the 8th sign, 7th house. This is a bit disturbing.


There was no physical violence as far as i know, - and i think, i would know if so -
but he in fact has been very brutal and harsh at the end. I think he felt a little dependent on her, physically, while he thought she'd be not the type of woman he wants to marry. So the end has been violent towards her in my eyes, just to make sure she would not get inbetween his finally new plans for his future.
I don't like her going back there. Not at all.

On the other hand it seems as if he still "wants" her, (Moon emplaced in the 1st house ?, and his "dependancy", experienced by him as weakness, would be shown by debilitation?) and she might only use this to pay back in a way. - while i am concerned she had to be pretty cold to handle this in a way to not get hurt herself.
So planets in the 8th sign make sense in a way.

One last question: what should i see in the applying trine between Mars and Saturn rx?
Mars seems weak there, in Cancer, but still looks a bit scary...

I feel much clearer about the chart, and feel enough ground under my feet to talk to her. Thank you so much for your time and for listening!
 

Carlos23

Banned
Hello, dear lord,
your sister wants to know this?! :D
Who is this man, who is an old flame of hers? What are his colours? Black/brown-haired; blonde? They were with someone else, and yet she is wondering, if she will have sex with him? Strange! Your sister does not know about his private life, because she does not know him! She made the chart, why? Ever ask yourself this?
She is not Saturn r! She is not willing to go back! The guy is not Moon! Pluto is not important in these kind of questions! He's not weak! Mars' exaltation does not exist!
Moon will not conjunc ASC! The last aspect of it is not with Saturn!
How should you read this? With patience! Will they come together physically? No! (Why? Because no.) Will they hurt each other? No. (They won't come together.)
You feel too involved, why? (Are you okay?)
I am helping!

Jupiter and Merkur do not see each other! (Off!)
Just get his rails! :D
Tempt him! But don't lose him! Just don't care about it! -RR ... Be easy! -CC
:D
Be easy! -CC
Charles
 

tikana

Well-known member
yeah the quested wants the querent and they will have sex but it is leading to nowhere since moon in cap is weak and debiliated and saturn in scorpio isnt great...
 
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