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  #1  
Unread 02-14-2020, 11:58 PM
LushBomb LushBomb is offline
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Help find Mom's missing wedding ring?

Question Details:
Asked 11/16/19 (Saturday, November 16th 2019) at 8:25PM
Irvine, CA (US)
Saturn Day
Jupiter Hour
Part of Possessions (ASC+2nd cusp-2nd ruler) 6*14' Aries


Hi everyone, I have been privately developing my skills using horary astrology for some time now. One day I told my mother about it and what it could do and she immediately asked
"Where is my wedding ring?"
I did my best to delineate the chart on my own but hit a bit of a dead end- we didn't find the ring in the places I thought to look. I promised her I'd post online seeking help from people with more experience than myself. Chart is attached.
I prefaced the entire situation by letting her know that this is a very complicated study and there's no guarantee that I'd be able to read the chart correctly or find the item at all.

I also noted that Saturn was conjunct and ruling the 7th house cusp. I wasn't sure if that was an affliction though, given Saturn would be in dignity, but I have had quite a bit of trouble reading this chart so sure FEELS like an affliction. : P

These are my theories on what could have happened
1. The ring was misplaced and is in the house still (Note asc lord last aspect was opposition to Saturn, could have been lost due to forgetfulness according to Lilly)
2. The ring was stolen, we confronted the person who happened to be the thief while asking around for it, and they stashed it in the house again
3. The item was stolen, sold, and purchased and now lives in the bathroom of another home, not far from ours
*** Please try not to be overly swayed by the idea of theft. I did not feel the aspects of this chart strongly indicated it was a possibility and I had my doubts at the time of the ring going missing also. The opportunity was available however, so can't ignore the potentiality of the ring being stolen.

These are the places that I came up with to look (namely, my mother's bathroom area, the garage, and the hallway connecting the two)
1. My mom's closet, including in clothes/pockets (Mom's room is N/E part of the house, closet is on N/E wall in the restroom/the fireplace is on the other side of the wall that forms the back of the closet)
2. My mom's bathroom storage (She had already searched through here many times)
3. The water heater (in the N/E corner of the garage)
4. The loft in the garage (a bunch of my mother and grandmothers things, mirrors, paintings)
5. The furnace (in a small closet in the hallway)

There is a crawlspace that we had thought to look in but hadn't yet, and apparently we have an attic also which hasn't been checked (we thought the crawlspace was the attic, of sorts). The attic would be dark, a source of heat, and possibly have piping running through so maybe...

My questions for you are:
1. Did I miss any big, flashing red lights that point to non-recovery? (ie; the ASC conjuncting Moon prohibiting Moon trine POF or Sun? I felt like that wasn't really prohibition but idk)
2. Did I misinterpret any positions or aspects, as far as you can tell?
3. Are there any other areas/types of places you can think to look?
4. What timeframe for recovery (assuming this is possible) do you see? (I had initially been thinking days/weeks. Reassessing the signs and houses involved, I think I would've been more correct to assume weeks/months. Hoping it's not years. If it is months, its about 3-4 months since the question was asked, so maybe we will find it with the help of this thread!)
* Always very happy to learn of any new techniques or receive new insights from your personal experience, please do not hesistate to explain or elaborate *

xx

A little background- Feel free to skip reading this, it's offered only to be helpful if needed
This question should have produced a very legible chart as my mother turned the house upside down looking for the ring and has never completely stopped or given up. I know she wants very badly to find it again, it was a prized possession, especially considering her wedding gown was stolen during her honeymoon (well over 25 years ago now). The ring was very valuable, I seem to recall it having been appraised around $14,000 or something ridiculous like that.
Our family lost everything in 2008, our home, cars, jobs, just everything- so that was the last precious possession my mother had.
When I first delineated the chart I arrived at the idea that the ring may still be in our home. My mom revealed that she had always had a strong gut feeling that the ring was still in the house. She had never told me that before.

I will add this next part with a grain of salt because we do not know one way or the other:
There is a possibility/suspicion the ring was stolen. We have a large, protective dog so I highly doubt that any stranger could have walked into our home and stolen anything without leaving a body part or two behind.
With that in mind, in the relative time period before the ring went missing we allowed two different friends to stay with us. Our dog would've known them and would have thought nothing of them coming into the house or poking around.

One was a family friend for many years. He stayed with us on and off for years due to issues with his adoptive family and was really considered a member of ours. He remained a family friend and lived with us here and there after the ring went missing as well. He never came into any large amount of money as one might expect if the ring was stolen and pawned. We really don't believe he took it. We confronted him and asked if there was any way he could've maybe had a moment of weakness but he denied that he could ever do that to my mother and his response seemed genuine.
The other was a friend that my brother had known only for a short time. He was a much shadier type of character, kind of a sleaze, only stayed with us for a few weeks, and we fell out with him afterwards. We all felt that he could've stolen it at the time and my brother confronted him about it. Naturally he denied it, however he was flaunting a large amount of cash on his social media shortly after. That seems incriminating, but keep in mind that this guy sold party drugs for his living. He always had plenty of cash from that.

I will say that I was never fully convinced that the ring was stolen. My grandma insisted it had to be stolen because a necklace and a cameo of hers had gone missing too at the same time (she was prompted to look for it when my mother found her ring was missing). That made it seem more convincing that the ring had been stolen but I always had some small reservation.

When I drew this chart it revived the whole issue and my grandma and I went through her jewelry so she could show me where the items that had gone missing used to be kept (buried in her drawers). She FOUND the cameo she had thought was missing all these years!

The necklace was nowhere to be found, but that made me wonder if maybe she had just misplaced that too. With that in mind, it seemed more likely that my mom's could've also been misplaced.

My mom's ring lived on her finger, or on a ring holder on her vanity. Period. So misplacement wasn't terribly likely and we had searched the surrounding areas thoroughly. (Years later we even replaced the carpet, so its not as if it had fallen between the wall and carpet somehow) My grandma's missing necklace was also diamond. A thief may not have known that a cameo was valuable, but diamonds obviously are so they both could've still been stolen.

With all this in mind, my two strongest theories are:
1. The ring was not stolen and is in the house (same goes for the necklace)
2. The ring and the necklace were stolen, but because we confronted the thief, they stashed the item back in our house someplace.

I also couldn't neglect this 3rd and more disappointing sounding possibility
3. The ring was stolen, sold, and purchased. It is in a bathroom or low place, but in another home and not ours.
To that end I did draw another chart asking more specifically "Can my mother's ring be recovered?" I can post that one if anyone would like to see it however I did feel that in essence it was asking the same thing as her question so I feel the first chart is valid.

My take
I've spent so many hours looking at this chart.

Cancer rises in a question asked by my mother, so asc describes her. The Moon is conjunct the ASC with ASC applying 2*. ~The issue is obviously very important to her, her heart is in it. The Moon is as strong as she can be in domicile/1st house which made things seem favorable for my mother. I felt that of anyone, she would be the one who would find it.

Sun is significator for the ring and it fits. The ring was gold and very valuable, it was impressive to look at. Sun is also conjunct POF, so that seemed to confirm the position further. That could also indicate the the item cant be seen (POF sig for lost items, combustion=not visibile). Sun is in the 5th, peregrine in Scorpio. ~The ring is not where it should be but not far off. It's peregrine status reinforces that the item is indeed lost. In Scorpio the item should be somewhere low down or dark, possibly a bathroom or maybe near pipes. Fixed sign, well-hidden probably hasn't moved much, near floors or walls. The 5th house brings to mind children, but also where hobby-type items are stored. My mom shares a room with my sister and they have a bathroom attached to their room. This is where the ring normally stayed while my mom wasn't wearing it.
In a succedent house, the garage can also be indicated which is where all of our storage is. Scorpio can also indicated places like junk piles/rubbish heaps. Our garage is full of junk, plenty of it hobby/sports equipment. Lots of our belongings have never been unpacked since our first move, and this would be probably the fifth or sixth. So lots of old stuff that's never been gone through.

Moon applies trine to Sun in 4*, trine POF 3*. ~When I first drew the chart, I had interpreted this to mean that my mom (Moon) would find (applying trine) the ring (Sun). She would have to actually look for it (succedent house) but would find it fairly easily (trine). I thought this would happen in a time frame of 3 days or weeks to 4 days or weeks. Both significators are in water signs, so I thought the ring would be found somwhere near water. The direction North East was strongly indicated.
I looked to the 4th house cusp and saw Libra. Closets, halls, mirrors, women's things, clothes, upper rooms, lofts etc.
4H ruler Venus is in Saggitarius in 5th, conjunct 6th house cusp & 2nd house cusp is Leo, so the item could be near a source of heat or walls.

Your time and thoughts are much appreciated.


Last edited by LushBomb; 02-15-2020 at 03:35 AM. Reason: adding timing/location of the question
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  #2  
Unread 02-15-2020, 02:34 AM
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leomoon leomoon is offline
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Re: Help find Mom's missing wedding ring?

I don't like reading or even attempting to read charts that I don't do myself, or if another's, then have the time, date, and place because otherwise, we can't know other important information such as the Day and Time rulers.



Like you or perhaps unlike you, I'm not proficient in horary,but am intrigued by it enough to try my hand now and then.


I noticed you said you were assuming, the ASC represented your mom, but I don't think so. Its the question you ask. The question I take it to be, "where is the ring?"....Other info such as who, what where and under what circumstance might also reveal itself if we are lucky or a proficient enough astrologer finds this thread.



Having said that, I'm taking the Moon to be the action of the chart and the Ruler itself having to do with the lost ring.



2nd house would be where I'd look to the ruler of the 2nd, and in this case the ring represented by the Sun (Leo) found in the 5th house a distance from the Moon for certain, but there is a trine between the Moon and Mercury with a 12 degree separation before becoming an exact trine.

I don't recall the timetable nor do I see of course the dates I mentioned, as to how long this ring is now missing, but some people do look at the aspects of the Moon if they think the item is retrievable for the timing.



The 2°difference to a square with Mars in the 4th house (another place to look for the end result of the event) - but the square appears to me to suggest being hampered in retrieval which has been the case apparently.



Since you are the one who was attempting to read the chart for your mother (the querant), I'd suggest you then would be represented by Saturn which indeed is within minutes to the DSC cusp, suggesting a few things as possibilities. For example, is the Astrologer (who can be seen by the 7th) ruler by Saturn? That might be one exception to the rule. The other I think (by memory), has to do with the time - day ruler. I can't find my notes tonight however. One of these exception as I recall, is (in this case, Saturn is found in Capricorn - the sign associated with the planet, and either the astrologer being a Cap. or Aquarius might be better but by and large, the consideration is as noted below



"Saturn in the seventh either corrupts the judgment of the Astrologer, or is a Sign the matter propounded will come from one misfortune to another."Wm.Lilly



IF I find my notes over the weekend, I'll probably post more.

Meanwhile, my heart goes out to your mom, as I also lost jewelry which was precious to me (through theft). ... I never ever dreamed a friend of my daughter's would have taken my rings both in one case on the dining room table, (one my mothers, one my grandmother's) .....and I cried heavily over that loss. The girl told my friend she flushed them down a toilet. She was also a girl from a wealthy family, with obviously, serious emotional problems.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 02:54 AM
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leomoon leomoon is offline
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Re: Help find Mom's missing wedding ring?

A few other notes regarding Saturn:


(in your chart, the face of Saturn at 16° is Mars, hence a malefic) and Saturn opposes the Moon -



However, Saturn can get some strength when found to be hour and time ruler or the ruler of the Sun of the astrologer reading the chart.



http://docshare01.docshare.tips/files/8837/88377690.pdf
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Unread 02-15-2020, 03:26 AM
LushBomb LushBomb is offline
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Re: Help find Mom's missing wedding ring?

Firstly, thank you for taking a look at this chart!

I thought the 1st house cusp ruled the question and it's lord the querent? So my mother would be represented by Moon right? Correct me if I'm wrong though, I am still learning (: And sometimes I speak loosely/lazily without realizing, so if I'm being vague please forgive me. (Natal Mercury is in Pisces hehe)

Man! Sorry about that lol, I meant to include the date/time info- the hour ruler is Jupiter I believe so I wasn't sure if the chart is radical.
I'll edit my post to include that right away.
I was worried that the non-radical chart would essentially be telling me that it's 'not rooted' in the original question, meaning, perhaps the chart will tell me where the ring is but not in the context of how we are thinking of it- like, where it is in our house. It may be telling me that this ring is in a low/dark/bathroom type area not too far away in a house...just not our house or our bathroom. And this could be if it was stolen or sold. I'm really hoping this isn't the case.
I had read that sometimes a non-radical chart will half-answer questions in an oblique way such as this
I mentioned that bit about the ASC describing my mother (which is probably where I confused you with my phrasing) as (if I recall correctly) Lilly had sometimes used whether or not the Ascendant physically describes the querent to call a chart radical. In a question asked by my mom the sign cancer ascending seemed to confirm that this chart actually is in fact radical, in my opinion.

Yes, I saw Saturn chilling by the 7th cusp and immediately thought my judgement would be comprimised/I would have trouble with the chart based on that quote.

That's interesting, both of those conditions are true actually. I'm an Aquarius & this question was asked on Saturday, so Saturn is the day ruler. I haven't come across that bit of information regarding Saturn and the 7th cusp rule so if you do find it in your notes I'd love for you to share it! I was hunting for information like that for forever when I first drew this chart.


I'm so sorry to hear that, it seems some people have no empathy. The emotional attachment to our keepsakes is always so much stronger than their cash value. It always made me sick to my stomach to think that one of the people who we gave a home to in their time of need would've repaid my mother's kindness that way. I'm really sad to hear that the same thing happened to you also.

Thank you for the link! I haven't had the time to do anything but glance, but is that the content from mithras93.tripod.com on a downloadable PDF I see? That's one of my favorite resources next to Skyscript's articles but its tricky to try to find the right page on google when you need it. You're my hero (:

Last edited by LushBomb; 02-15-2020 at 03:53 AM. Reason: corrections. why did i spell repaid as 'repayed' wtf where is my brain
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Unread 02-15-2020, 03:58 AM
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leomoon leomoon is offline
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Re: Help find Mom's missing wedding ring?

Hi again...just happened to look at my computer between TV shows I'm catching up on tonight. Meanwhile, I want you to know that YOU know more then I, about horary I'm sure, as I too am learning. However, its true some of us will pick up different things that others may have neglected or forgotten too. Just as I learn, so too do others from each other.


REF:
Quote:
Lilly had sometimes used whether or not the Ascendant physically describes the querent to call a chart radical. In a question asked by my mom the sign cancer ascending seemed to confirm that this chart actually is in fact radical, in my opinion.
I read the same as you did, (Lilly suggested that the ASC and the querant being confirmed in this way meant a radiical chart)....What confused me (and to some extent still does), is "what exactly is the horary question?" I know that sounds simple and should be self-explanatory, but its not meant to be, only that you talk like I think, lol. I have a lot of scattered energy especially when I write, (having Cancer Rising in the Tropical natal, but Gemini in the Sidereal), so I went into writing Kindle books and a LOT of editing must be done prior to publishing my work,.... mostly because of my scattered thoughts.


So, I'm taking your mother's original question as very simply, "Where is my ring"?....Would that be accurate to assume?


Of course others may insist on doing a turned chart, i.e. finding you as daughter to your mom, then turning the chart and looking into her 2nd house and all the other houses depending on what they might be looking to answer. Personally, I don't employ turned charts unless absolutely necessary meaning, not easily seen otherwise, then I call that "plan b". But my motto in life is "to each his/her own"....Lilly had his way, I have mine, you yours, Gadbury his, Morin his, and so on and on.


BTW: Thanks a whole bunch for the Day (Saturn) ruler and the time (Jupiter?) ruler. That helps I'm sure once we or others get into this moreso.


From what I vaguely recall (not from where I read it), Jupiter was the original ruler of Cancer, until bumped from the moon as ruler and then it became the sign's exaltation. Just to say, that the hour ruler seems to fit well with the ASC which is good to know.



Must sign off for the night, thanks for the excellent & stimulating conversation with much to think about later....


for now however, -

Last edited by leomoon; 02-15-2020 at 04:04 AM.
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Unread 02-16-2020, 07:10 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Help find Mom's missing wedding ring?

hello LushBomb
1.when your mother lost her ring?When was the last time the querent
had/saw the lost object?
2.could you please describe it? you said gold and that is very expensive.is there a specific gemstone/color on the ring or something descriptive?like a figure?
3.once more to clarify that indeed your mother is the one who asked
4.obviously i don't know your house but to start from scratch have you checked the play room, children's room if there's any...you said you checked the bedroom
with lost objects there are many possibilities and always is easier for the querent who knows his house to figure out the possible places(if the item was lost in the house in the first place).personally usually i prefer the natural sigs instead of the accidental ones..but 4th could be also relevant sometimes, as also pof in such type of charts
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Unread 02-19-2020, 02:57 AM
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Cypocryphy Cypocryphy is offline
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Re: Help find Mom's missing wedding ring?

Hey LushBomb:

I don't know what anyone has said here; however, you need to cast a new chart.

You are having problems because:

(1) The is Void of Course—meaning that nothing is going to happen; you won't find the missing ring

(2) is in the 7th house, meaning you will have a lot of difficulty interpreting the chart because the astrologer is the 7th house here

(3) Moreover, there is no "harmony" with the hour in which the chart was cast and the ascendant or ruler of the ascendant. (Normally, this is not a significant factor alone, in most instances, but because you have all three of these factors together, you simply cannot use this chart to find the missing ring.

I hope this helps, so you don't have to ponder why you haven't found that ring yet.
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Last edited by Cypocryphy; 02-19-2020 at 02:59 AM.
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