Finding Birth Date/Time Using Astrology

I've been looking into astrology for some time now and I've noticed that each planet in sign, planet in house and planet to planet aspect bears a mild, but noticeably similar set of physical characteristics.

I was wondering if anyone here has recognized the physical differences between various astrological placements and whether you've used the information for research or discovery events such as finding an accurate birth date or time. Thank you.

An older form of astrology attributed different facial characteristics to different signs. Unfortunately a lot of this delineation was very Eurocentric. For example, someone with Aries rising or Mars rising would have red hair. Obiously this material wouldn't work for populations where dark hair is the norm.

It's important to consider the role of genetics.

waybread said:

An older form of astrology attributed different facial characteristics to different signs. Unfortunately a lot of this delineation was very Eurocentric. For example, someone with Aries rising or Mars rising would have red hair. Obiously this material wouldn't work for populations where dark hair is the norm.

It's important to consider the role of genetics.

Click to expand...

In traditional astrology, strong Saturn placements esp in Capricorn, Aquarius and involvement of other planetary aspects is thought to give someone dark (brown or black) hair, but this is a common ethnophysical trait in many racial and nationality groups. Strong Cancers including ascendants are thought to made people with light skin or lightest of their race or ethnicity. My Saturn in Virgo and Cancer rising combined with my Aquarius sun/moon made me have dark hair and beige skin, darker than most Flemish-French (my father's side who has brown hair) and lighter than most Osage-Cherokee (my mother's side is partial Native American), BTW I'm an white American from sunny southern CA.

astro1 said:

I've been looking into astrology for some time now and I've noticed that each planet in sign, planet in house and planet to planet aspect bears a mild, but noticeably similar set of physical characteristics.

I was wondering if anyone here has recognized the physical differences between various astrological placements and whether you've used the information for research or discovery events such as finding an accurate birth date or time. Thank you.

Click to expand...

the following HELLENISTIC methodology
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=920697#post920697
clearly highlights for interested readers
how the seven classical planets
are FOR EXAMPLE associated with skin tone

petosiris said:

Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part II - Seven Stars​

Saturn completes 2 sidereal cycles and 57 synodic cycles with 59 years.
It has retreating arcs of 7 degrees for 140 days.

Saturn.... .....makes those born under him dark-skinned....

Jupiter completes 6 sidereal cycles and 65 synodic cycles with 71 years.
It has retreating arcs of 10 degrees for 120 days.

Jupiter makes those born under him light, of good colour.....

Mars completes 42 sidereal cycles and 37 synodic cycles with 79 years.
It has retreating arcs of 16 degrees for 72 days.

Mars...... .....makes those born under him red and white in complexion....

Venus completes 8 sidereal cycles and 5 synodic cycles with 8 years.
It has retreating arcs of 15 degrees for 40 days.

Venus... .....makes those born under her olive in complexion.....

Mercury completes 46 sidereal cycles and 145 synodic cycles with 46 years.
It has retreating arcs of 12 degrees for 20 days.

Mercury... .....makes those born under it sallow.... .......and olive complexion....

Moon completes sidereal cycles with 27.32166 days and anomalistic cycles with 27.55454 days.
Ascending Node completes retreating sidereal cycles with 18.61295 years.

Moon makes those born under her white.......

Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s entire.pdf

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A few tips for assessing "blackness/whiteness" aka "darkness/lightness"
"fairness/darker complexion" of skin tones
Important to keep in mind that
it's not unusual for children of the same race
to be fairer or darker complexioned than their siblings
So within the race of white/whitish people
some siblings are darker/lighter complexioned than others
and likewise
within the race of black/blackish people
some siblings are darker/lighter complexioned than others
and so

for rectification purposes
Focusing on height
weight
bone structure
eye colour
gives overall good results


Black people with Blue eyes

and other ethnicities
Parts 1 and 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vhW7rR6VDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCPBpCWm89Y

waybread said:

An older form of astrology attributed different facial characteristics to different signs. Unfortunately a lot of this delineation was very Eurocentric. For example, someone with Aries rising or Mars rising would have red hair. Obiously this material wouldn't work for populations where dark hair is the norm.

It's important to consider the role of genetics.

Click to expand...

Equally important to
consider that hair color is not the sole physical characteristic
determined by genetics

and
astrologers note that
individuals are born with different rising signs
and draw various conclusions

also
there are in fact
DARK SKINNED PEOPLE WITH NATURAL BLONDE HAIR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjuDG8mbjcI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bmfH9tIjOs

CapAquaPis said:

In traditional astrology, strong Saturn placements esp in Capricorn, Aquarius and involvement of other planetary aspects is thought to give someone dark (brown or black) hair

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A very basic principle of traditional astrology is

that TRADITIONALLY 1st House describes
amongst various significations
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h1.html
Life, vitality and health.

Stature, colour, complexion, form and shape of body.

Older sources note 1st House influence upon the intellect
the way the mind works
and speech.
1st house represents the focal point for the personality and manner of expression.
As well as describing the physical appearance

clearly then PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
in TRADITIONAL astrology in any event
IS a matter for 1st House delineation

CapAquaPis said:

but this is a common ethnophysical trait in many racial and nationality groups. Strong Cancers including ascendants are thought to made people with light skin or lightest of their race or ethnicity. My Saturn in Virgo and Cancer rising combined with my Aquarius sun/moon made me have dark hair and beige skin, darker than most Flemish-French (my father's side who has brown hair) and lighter than most Osage-Cherokee (my mother's side is partial Native American), BTW I'm an white American from sunny southern CA.

Click to expand...

more detailed info is available
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121654
for example:

petosiris said:

Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac
​

The image of the Fishes is two-coloured.... .......slightly sallow.....

........with ruddy head..... .......white in complexion.....

Click to expand...

astro1 said:

....such as finding an accurate birth date or time. Thank you.

Click to expand...

Verifying the ascendant using astrological methodology
is known as RECTIFICATION
however
because it is a time-consuming method
that requires also that preferably one meets the native in person
to make ones own observations
very few western astrologers offer a rectification service
nevertheless

Traditional Western Astrologer MARTIN GANSTEN offers rectification
http://www.martingansten.com/btr.php


FREE information on RECTIFICATION DISCUSSION THREAD
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51626


Interesting example of rectification using PRE-NATAL EPOCH
aka TRUTINE OF HERMES
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d=1#post877545

extrapolated from RECTIFICATION INFO discussion posted at

at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1017195#post1017195

with an update to the original method

11-30-2019, 06:00 AM
petosiris
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,621


Re: Animodar
I have found a method that is more physical than this and does not involve the preceding syzygy or numerology.

Quote:
36. Nativities
When the moment of nativity is known, it can be examined instead of the moment of conception, the hours must be determined with knowledge of accidental qualities, and with one of the planets in perfect configuration with the Hour-Marker or the Midheaven at every conception and nativity
So, let the Ascendant or the Midheaven be in perfect conjunction, sextile, square, trine or opposition with one of the seven planets regardless of other factors.

We might theorize why this is so - conceptions and births of humans are powerful moments in nature that require the strongest influence of a planet on angles.


UPDATE

petosiris said:

Yes, nowadays I ignore the syzygy and focus on the planet which makes the closest exact aspect to the Asc (and Dsc) or the Mc (and Ic). A major technical difference between this and the Ptolemaic Animodar is that mine requires a planet to be at the angle or in aspect, while Ptolemy seems to allow it to be disjunct, only requiring the numeric degree it has passed within its sign to be the same (it is like an exact semi-sextile or inconjunct modern ''aspect''). This does not seem physical to me, but rather numerological and uncharacteristic of Ptolemy's intentions of astrology.

So I recommend that one follows a more limited approach with regard to aspects, but more broad approach with regard to rulers. Often, the two methods (the Ptolemaic Animodar and the Petosiris Animodar) will give the same results, since they are based on similar physical reasoning.

I recommend one step - a planet in conjunction, sextile, square, trine or opposition with an angle. Take for example the chart of Ptolemy's second biggest fan (after me) - Girolamo Cardano - https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cardano,_Girolamo
There is no planet in aspect with an angle at 18:29 when the Ascendant is at 6° 22' Taurus. But noticing that Jupiter is nearby, we can put him exactly at the Ascendant giving us 18:20 time, or a 9 minute rectification. Jupiter rising rather than declining may better explain his life and fame.

Click to expand...

AND SO FOR RECTIFICATION
CONSIDER USING THE FOREGOING METHOD ABOVE

INSTEAD OF

THE FOLLOWING

petosiris said:

1. Examine the preceding syzygy, whether it was a new moon or a full moon.
2. If the preceding syzygy was a new moon, observe its degree at the time of the nativity.
3. If the preceding syzygy was a full moon by night, we observe the degree of the syzygy. By day, we observe the degree opposite the syzygy, which is the degree of the luminary above the horizon (in that case the Sun).
4. Observe the degree at the approximate time of the nativity, and give a point to any of the following planets with rulership over the degree at the time of birth (see http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/3A*.html#note9)

5. Give a point to any planet in the same sign as the degree or in sign with some aspect (sextile, square, trine or opposition) to it.
6. If one star is familiar with the degree in all or most of these ways, whatever degree of its sign it is passing at the time of birth, the same numerical degree is rising (Asc) or culminating (Mc) at the time of birth.
7. If two or more stars are predominators, observe the one that is closer to the approximate time. If it so happens that we do not have the nearest hour of birth, we can establish it through combination of accidental qualities. The foregoing rectification is for time with approximate hour.

Click to expand...

waybread said:

An older form of astrology attributed different facial characteristics to different signs. Unfortunately a lot of this delineation was very Eurocentric. For example, someone with Aries rising or Mars rising would have red hair. Obiously this material wouldn't work for populations where dark hair is the norm.

It's important to consider the role of genetics.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree with this point - genetics is important in determining basic physical traits. However, I've noticed basic similarities with each planetary placement that spans across diverse ethnic roots. There are ethnic, gender and locational differences, but there are also basic symmetrical patterns that follow each planetary position.

CapAquaPis said:

In traditional astrology, strong Saturn placements esp in Capricorn, Aquarius and involvement of other planetary aspects is thought to give someone dark (brown or black) hair, but this is a common ethnophysical trait in many racial and nationality groups. Strong Cancers including ascendants are thought to made people with light skin or lightest of their race or ethnicity. My Saturn in Virgo and Cancer rising combined with my Aquarius sun/moon made me have dark hair and beige skin, darker than most Flemish-French (my father's side who has brown hair) and lighter than most Osage-Cherokee (my mother's side is partial Native American), BTW I'm an white American from sunny southern CA.

Click to expand...

Capricorn/Saturn/10th house natives tend to have an organized, classic bone structured look, with subtle skin features that show off those features even more. Aquarius/Uranus/11th house natives tend to have distinguished, elegant features, with a striking, yet handsome nose that frames the face quite well. Cancer/Moon/4th house natives tend to have clear, yet sensitive features with eyes that are penetrating in a beautiful way. (in other words, you have some beautiful chart placements!)

These differences aren't exclusive, but they appear so often that it catches one's attention.