Alternate House Titles/Meanings?

The only house typification scheme I've seen is the traditional one, wherein house 1 is 'being,' house 2 is 'values,' and so forth. I'm dissatisfied with the names given to houses, and it's a block to my understanding, so I need some insight.

For instance, house 1 is the house of Being.

Just house 1?

Isn't the whole chart a picture of the being?

Could house 1 be renamed 'ego' or 'conscious mind,'--something that would satisfy the Jungian disciple--without damaging the coherence of the system?

Yes, it is the whole chart that represents the whole person.

But of course a whole person has feet, ears, a liver...all of which can be looked at separately. If the left foot has a thorn in it, it would be good to look at the foot.

The houses serve this function. They allow us to look at specific areas of the life when it is useful to do so.

As to the First House and Jung, call it the Persona. That is a very accurate description of one of the meanings of the First House. The House is more inclusive than just "persona", but in that role is the delight of Jungians everywhere.

The Fourth House can be seen as the "Collective Unconscious" while the "Personal Unconscious" is tucked neatly into the Twelfth House.

The problem you face is a blockage of understanding. Astrology is a universal language that, at least in theory, embraces "everything under the Sun" (that is, manifest reality). Each element of this reality can be placed in one of the houses. Quite often, a given element may fit into one of several houses, depending on its present state and also the personal perspective of the astrologer.

An example that comes to mind is "primary education", which can be given to the Fifth House. But this learning of collectively held knowledge, its acquisition by the native, eventually gives way to "higher education", which is exploratory in nature and deals with the unknown and the expansion of knowledge...a Ninth House matter.

Unlike the signs, which are cosmic in nature (they are divisions of the heavens based on the structure of the heavens), the houses are "mundane" or terrestrial. They are divisions of the heavens as centered on Earth...in other words, they represent the Heavens brought to Earth. They do not move, as the signs do, relative to Earth. Their symbolism is "immediately surrounding circumstances" or "earthly affairs".

All of us, at one time or another, face (our attention is primarily directed toward) all of the houses, sometimes with an emphasis on one house, sometimes on several. The affairs of one house, more often than not, have repercussions in another house, often several. A divorce (Seventh) may affect our Second House of personal liquid assets, our Fourth of home and family, our Tenth of career and public honor, and more. By using the houses effectively (through rulerships and aspects) we can see how these repercussions may act in the individual case.

My possessions (Second House, mostly) are an integral part of my being; I identfy with them, or they provide me with personal liberty to act as I choose (or deny that liberty in the case where such possessons -- liquid assets, primarily -- are lacking). This affects my entire being, but by partitioning these off from other aspects of being, analysis of the role of "money" in an individual's life, seen as separate or distinct from the role of "friends" in the Eleventh House, for example, is made possible.

In horary astrology (which answers specifc questions), one of the most important steps in interpretation of any chart is "assigning the proper house," which in some cases may depend on the judgment of the astrologer or the attitude of the querent toward the question. So, houses are flexible to some degree.

Again, it is a matter of understanding, and that is a matter left to the individual mind of the student. Astrology is fundamentally a "system of thought", and its efficacy resides in the mind of man. The houses are one of four primary sets of symbols that provide a structure, a framework, a discipline on which to hang our thought as we attempt to analyze character, destiny or immediate problems met in life.

House meanings (contents) have been tested in practice for nearly two thousand years. They are proven to work. I would not discard the traditional meanings lightly. You will find that different schools of astrology (compare Western tradition to Indian, for example) sometimes assign things to different houses. For example, in Vedic astrology the father is found in the Ninth House, while in the Western tradition he is allocated to the Fourth (or the Tenth by some astrologers). The personal death is an Eighth House matter in Western astrology, while it is given to the Second in Indian astrology. The apparent contradiction does not negate the validity or effectiveness of astrology, for as I mentioned, astrology is fundamentally a system of thought resident in the mind of man, and is not external to the mind. Astrological symbolism proceeds from celestial fact, and provided that the symbolism adheres to a logical derivation from those facts, it probably doesn't matter a whole lot what form the symbolism takes.

For example, the Fourth House cusp (the Nadir in quadrant house systems) is the "lowest" point in the sky. It lies "under the earth." Therefore, we derive the symbolism of "roots", "foundation", "the past"..... It is our "heritage", our family "name". It is all natural resources found on or under the earth. It is the collective or universal, racial unconscious. Being literally "under the earth" it is unseen, therefore our most private place, secret, hidden from view.

The First House is "self". The Seventh House opposes the First, and is therefore "not-self" as it relates to self, and is the house of marriage and partnerships, and of war and dispute. As you study the relationships of the houses one to another -- the crosses and the triads, the oppositions, etc -- you will see how they interlock and support each other, and in doing so portray the whole being in relationship to the environment, what it will meet in life on Earth.

I too agree that with strictly traditional astrology, the house associations can be confusing and rather limited IMO; in our rapidly expanding and changing world we can begin to also expand on what the houses actually relate to for the individual.
In my view; first house is definitely Persona and how we express ourselves to the world. It represents the Mask of personality that we begin to take on around the age of 7, when we move away from dependence on the parents, and out into the educational and social world. From that time we begin to carve out a mask, to hide our inner securities and weaknesses in order to define who we are in the outer world. Sometimes it serves as a defense against a difficult world, that might otherwise find our personal expression unacceptable for whatever reason. This is the transference between the 4th H, of conditioning and parental influence, to the 1st H where we begin to create our own identity in response to how others react to us, and has much to do with our Self-image as well; during the 7 years after entering the social mainstream, that persona is apt to change considerably by the age of 14. In turn we need to expand on our understanding of the 7th as representing 'the House of Marriage and Relationships', for it can also relate to other things as well.

Thank you for your replies. I've come to right forum.

Have houses ever been described as 'personalities,' as in this house has such-and-such a personality and this house has that?

You are confusing signs and houses.
Signs have personalities. Aries has an "adventurous" personality, Gemini is "changeable."
Houses are matters, affairs, circumstances, things or persons fulfilling a specified function in the native's life ... and have no personalities of themselves.

The Second House is "money." Money, of itself, has no personality. The native has certain attitudes toward money, undergoes experiences involving money that exhibit a certain character. The attitudes and experiences may have their "personality", but "money" of itself does not. The attitudes and experiences are described by planets in the house, the condition of the lord(s) of the house, and aspects to the house cusp and the planets in it...these are what determine the "personality" of money in the native's life.

Houses and signs are not the same. It is unfortunate that many modern astrological writers seem to lump them into an indistinguishable mass.

As you work with the houses more and more you'll see additional shadings to each house. For instance for me the 1st house isn't just the persona and "you", but it is also where you take into yourself from the outside world. Where the outside world sends its beliefs and thoughts initially plugs into you via the ASC. How you perceive and process that outside world influence will be judged by what sign and planets rule that house, and how other planets in your chart aspect that ASC and house ruler. Thus, some people are highly influenced in negative ways by what the outside world presents to them and how they perceive it, while others really couldn't care less what the outside world thinks or does. This influence on your perception of the world and of yourself then modifies "you", the persona. The persona doesn't exist in a vacuum. By the same token, your ASC and 1st house also show how other people perceive "you", initially, which modifies THEIR perceptions of "you" and how to interact with you - which then modifies your perception of the outside and of your self. Thus a loopback mechanism which continually shapes and modifies and thus the "you" is continually changing, as seen in the transits and progressions. So don't view the 1st house like looking at a statue or name plate and think that "that is me", and that's it.

I think that between your two very helpful responses I've ironed out this particular block to my understanding of the natal chart. I'm feeling disoriented and vulnerable, sure-tell warning signals that I'm on the verge of learning something.

An observation: the fact that the persona exists on the chart, lumping it in, as it were, with cars and other peoples' money, objectifies the persona. It's an act of dissociation that I would be hard pressed to find correlate for in any other system I've studied. Compelling to say the least!

Go back over Mdinaz' post.

The "feedback loop" described is how the "persona" works....and it creates the destiny.

All other houses are in a sense subservient to the Ascendant/First House. The ancients correlate this point with "Destiny," and mdinaz gives a brief look at the reason why. It's hidden, not explicit, but it's there (what a great post). And it points out the way an astrologer (or scientist, or thinker of any sort) must think....linking the apparently unrelated to form a whole, following clues to new visions. Using common sense to expand thought, digging out consequences of what superficially seem to be rather simple stateent, using the power of analogy....If this, then that. Expansive thought.

The Ascendant is the point of All Beginnings...It is the first breath, literally. That is the "marker" that astrologers use to time a birth -- the First Inspiration (pneuma, prana)..."And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

The final outcome of anything is dependent on its initial conditions...the Ascendant in astrology.

If you dig through the literature you will find that the houses have a progressive nature. They follow a logical progression in development of a rather symbolic nature, and their concrete meanings derive from this rather abstract progression.

You might find information of this sort on Houlding's "Skyscript" site, or on Rudhyar's "Khaldea" (since its founding, hijacked by Michael Meyer, I think.)

Sounds like you're getting a handle on the houses. "Money" is not the persona, yet money (and what it can do) become identified with the persona. Bill Gates might stimulate thought in that direction. I choose my wife (my persona does, in a way) according to my persona...she complements me, fulfills me. And so on.

Astrology takes time to penetrate the mind, to be assimilated. It's a different way of thinking and we have to get used to this new paradigm of thought. And then, when we think we've "got it", we discover that we don't, and move to a new level. So don't get frustrated. Astrology helps us see more clearly if we just stick with it. The learning never stops...and what is more imporant and vital -- the understanding, the vision, the growth never stop.

Keep in mind as your study progresses that signs and houses are not the same...but they do have associations or affinities with each other which are very useful in interpretation.

And always, every specific must be correlated with the whole chart. Nothing stands alone.

Someone just started a new thread asking what might be the indications for "not finding a job..." I chose not to throw in my two bits, but here's how "whole chart" reading can help us see things like this.

Suppose a chart is full of Air. Air needs variety, change and challenge. So if we're talking about a 9-5 job, routine and mind-killing drudgery.....well maybe (depending on other things in the chart) that might make it hard for a person to find, or to hold, such a job. Maybe the same chart holds aspects that suggest a strong drive toward independence, perhaps to the point of rebelliousness, or insistence on personal liberty above securty or conformity. Again, this might affect "job". Perhaps the chart pattern (as a whole) is highly irregular, not easy to classify, shows a misfit. Ditto. And all without any reference to the 10th or 6th houses, the standard signposts for "career and employment." This is the sort of thing we mean by "whole chart" analysis.

tshanno said:

I think that between your two very helpful responses I've ironed out this particular block to my understanding of the natal chart. I'm feeling disoriented and vulnerable, sure-tell warning signals that I'm on the verge of learning something.

An observation: the fact that the persona exists on the chart, lumping it in, as it were, with cars and other peoples' money, objectifies the persona. It's an act of dissociation that I would be hard pressed to find correlate for in any other system I've studied. Compelling to say the least!

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I think your issue is that you are looking at everything in a physical, already-manifested way. The chart is not two dimensional - you have to be able to view it in more than several dimensions - past, present, future, and "all-that-is", the Universal or soul view. For instance, the 2nd house isn't just "money" or property. It is what we value, how we perceive that value, how we utilize that value, and what that value does to us and for us. Venus rules this house because "value" inherently has the concept that it provides us pleasure, safety, security, and forms the basis of our quality of life, in all respects. You can be dirt poor and yet still be happy and place great value in your family, your relationships, how you live, your faith in God or whatever - and you can be filthy rich and be absolutely miserable.

Your beliefs, morals, and spiritual teachings (because the 2nd house is opposite the 9th house of spirituality, religion, etc) also have an affect on your values and what you value. If you raised in a society or home that teaches money is evil and nothing good comes from it, then you beliefs will reflect that idea; as a result you will create a reality in which this is true - people grub for money, you never have any, and so on. If these teachings are in conflict with what you believe at your core (perhaps Venus is square your Pluto, etc), you may have life experiences to prove this is or is not the case. If your 2nd house is intercepted, you could feel tremendous pressure in this arena where your "values" and the possessions thereof come into prominence. Don't focus on just the possessions themselves; they are illusory and only props.

tshanno, what are you reading?

On book I highly recommend is Deborah Houlding, Houses: Temples of the Sky, written by a traditional astrologer (not a modern astrologer-- they're different, tshanno.) Another one is Rex E. Bills, The Rulership Book, which lists all kinds of house meanings and is very helpful if you get into horary astrology, where house meanings really matter. See also Steven Forrest, The Inner Sky.

There is a very unfortunate tendency to conflate signs and houses, but a sign shows "how" a planet operates and a house shows the domain of life in which a planet operates.

Your first house is your body and outer personality. Not who you are for yourself, but your interface with others one-on-one and how they perceive you.

second house money, valuables, what you value, your values
third house communications, siblings, neighbours, short-distance travel
fourth house your home, paternal inheritance, land, early childhood conditioning
fifth house children, recreation and leisure activities, uncommitted love affairs
sixth house illness and health, work as "just a job", service
seventh house long-term committed relationships such as marriage, open enemies
eighth house shared resources, the phoenix cycle of sex-birth-life-death-rebirth
ninth house mind-expanding activites like foreign travel, higher education, religion
tenth house career as a vocation, public image, mother (may reverse with fourth)
eleventh house friends, hopes and wishes for the future
twelfth house isolation, altruism, secret enemies, misfortunate people, mysticism

There are more meanings, but these are the main ones. For example, in medical astrology the body parts are assigned to houses: the first rules the head; and the 12th, the feet. Planets rule things not symbolized by houses.

One helpful way to consider planets in houses is that they show what is important to you. The following is quick and dirty, but see if it helpful.

1. The sun is your core identity, your sense of self. Its house shows the area of life in which you feel most like your true self. In the 5th, this might be through one's children or hobbies/recreational activities.

2. The moon shows your emotional nature. Its house shows where you restore your frazzled nerves, or where you feel at your best. In the 12th house, for example, you might need some down-time by yourself.

3. Mercury shows how you think and communicate. What do you like to think and talk about? In the 8th house, maybe you are interested in investments, or want to plumb life to its very depths.

4. Venus shows how you attract, what/whom you are attracted to, your esthetic sense, and relationships. In the 7th house, she definitely wants a spouse or partner.

5. Mars shows your assertiveness, aggression, and what you go after. In the first house, you might come across to others as aggressive, or as a natural athlete.

6. Jupiter is your expansive good luck principle. In the 6th house, maybe you derive big benefits from volunteering with your favourite charity.

7. Saturn can show where we feel limited and frustrated, but also where we benefit from self-discipline. He rules old age, and tends to make things very material and concrete. In the 10th house, he might suggest career woes-- or head up his own architectural firm.

For an "untenanted" house with no planet in it, look at the sign on the house cusp. What is its ruling planet/s? By its own house, the house cusp ruler will tell you a lot about the empty house. For example, if you have Leo on the cusp of your empty 4th house, ruled by the sun located in the 5th house, perhaps having a home and family life is very important to you. You might want a really nice, impressive house, filled with sunshine.

Then let's put planets, houses, and signs together.

Suppose you have your sun in the second house in Gemini. Gemini, an air-sign, is a real information-gatherer. It's not material like an earth sign, so maybe it isn't into getting rich.... but if it likes numbers, it might become an accountant. If it loves to read, its worldly goods might consist of books-- or simply collecting information and ideas.

We can view the signs by personality, but by element is extremely helpful.

Air: mental, intellectual
Earth: practical, material
Fire: active, initiative
Water: emotional.

So with that second house, a Taurean earth-sign sun might focus on money and material goods; whereas a watery Pisces sun might collect beautiful memories rather than financial assets.

Then let's move this trio into the 10th house. The three suns will all feel most like themselves in connection with their career. But Gemini is best suited to mental activity, so hopefully his job involves something like IT or teaching. Taurus wants a very practical career: maybe engineering. Pisces sun might work in the film industry, with its beautiful emotion-stirring illusions.

Suppose someone has no planets in the 10th. Possibly her vocation is not so crucial to her, but.... not so fast. With Gemini on the cusp and Mercury in the 3rd, she might be an IT whiz. With Taurus on the cusp and Venus in the second, we're back to second house territory. With Pisces, I suggest looking at both Neptune (modern) and Jupiter (traditional.) Maybe Jupiter is in the 6th and Neptune is in the 12th so she volunteers at the local children's hospital.

Then we throw in aspects, which generally show whether the planets involved do or do not get along so well.... as in an extended family or committee.

Thank you all. I haven't been through "Astrology For Dummies" yet, much less any of the more advanced studies on this subject, but a good deal of what you're saying is not lost on me.

As long as you're typin', I'm readin'. I thank you profusely!

I've had some extremely bizarre, inexplicable-in-the-absolute experiences in my life--some synchronistic, and some much, much more unsettling--that confound commonsense notions about the laws which govern reality. I've turned myself inside out and back again in trying to construct a framework which can support the existence of these outliers and that pursuit is what has led me here. Strangely enough, I haven't stumbled across anything in my chart which might point overtly at 'supernatural experiences.'

I've studied Seth/Jane Roberts; Gurdjieff/E.J Gold; C.G. Jung; books on qabala, tarot, magic, yoga, psychology, philosophy, alchemy, mythology, psychism, religion, mathematics, cosmology, physics, chemistry, sociology, history.

My favorite joke-boast of the lot, however, is having read "The Golden Bough" in its entirety.

At any rate, I've just now come around to a real study of astrology. I'm completely out of my league on this board and will be for a long time. I'm enjoying the work so far and I really do appreciate your insights and your help, everyone.

I haven't read Astrology for Dummies, either. If you're just starting out, try Steven Forrest, The Inner Sky; or Robert Hand, Planets in Youth (good regardless of your age.)

You might post your chart on the "read my chart" board and ask for insight. If you think you are psychic, be sure to include the vertex.

To add another level!: Maybe we could talk about how in each individual's chart the houses are going to be informed by a particular sign, depending on what signs we find on the cusp of each house. (Am I right about this?).
For example, somebody with Capricorn on the 3rd house cusp will experience or approach those things associated with the 3rd house (e.g., communication) in a Capricornian way. So not only is the 3rd house not essentially associated with Gemini, but in most of our charts it's actually associated with some other sign.

That said, I increasingly think it makes the most sense to me to closely associate the themes of signs and houses as they're naturally aligned (e.g., Sagittarrius and 9th house are pretty similar). Not to say they are the same, but relate them closely.
But maybe I'll back that statement up later...



tshanno, if you've studied Jung, read the Golden Bough, delved into tarot, etc., I'd hardly say you're out of your league here. You must know what Jung says about astrology - how he sees it as a language of the collective unconscious. You probably recognize a similar "hero's journey" through the Major Arcana of the tarot running through the Zodiacal wheel. (At least the idea of a hero's journey. I don't know if the actual story reads the same). That is to say, you must be well prepared to approach this thing (astrology) as a symbolic framework for re-imagine our world and the archetypal, or at least persistent, themes humanity keep finding ourselves immersed in.
The actual mechanics of the system (Signs, Houses, Planets, aspects) are both easy to grasp in a few short weeks (like learning three-chord rock on the guitar) and - it strikes me as I look around this site - demand a lifetime to master (like John Coltrane).

Did Coltrane play the guitar too? I thought that was Jimi Hendrix.

greybeard said:

Did Coltrane play the guitar too? I thought that was Jimi Hendrix.

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Coltrane could play a toothbrush in the morning and the angels would come listening...