Saturn conjunct Uranus

So the late 80's babies (and I'm sure some others) saw a Saturn-Uranus conjunction, or at least Saturn and Uranus making the same aspect to the same planet.

I have a few questions about that perhaps people could help me with.

1) How does one interpret a Saturn-Uranus conjunction? What about Saturn and Uranus even in the same sign/house?

2) When it comes down to the two making the same aspect to the same natal planet, how might that be interpreted? Does it act like a transfer of light/chiron figure?

3) What does this mean for Chiron in the chart if Saturn and Uranus are conjunct/same sign/same house?

Thanks,

Mod!

I like the question for two reasons. 1. the combination. and 2. I have had that same question in my head for ages about the combining effects of having two outer planets or MORE closely transit a natal planet, (there are thousands of explanations of individual transits, but of course it would be a hell of a lot harder to go into multiple outer transits...)

1.

Uranus = freedom
Saturn = restraint

I don't really believe in binary oppositions, after all Uranus and Saturn in the ecliptic sit right next to each other through sign rulership in the form of Capricorn and Aquarius. So I don't see these planets as polar in any way.

I've never really thought about these two planets in conjunction or even in aspect. Uranus is a mental planet, ruling air and all thoughts which go beyond the personal, so I imagine that its influence on Saturn would be (in positive aspect) to bring insight and NEWNESS to all things belonging to saturn, all structure. Structural changes... etc.

Saturn in hard aspect is a slowing, and hardening influence. Combine that with Uranus and you've got high tension as well?

What you say about Chiron I think might be mistaken though, chiron was described as being a bridge between the two or having qualities of both, because chiron is brand new and has no house or sign or even a set of associations ascribed to it other than the healing myth of the centaur. I'm not sure it has relevance to the question.

But still, it surely is of great interest. Aleister Crowley has these two (Saturn-Uranus) in opposition 1st-7th house with Sun in a close wedge... He was definitely different from the Norm. As a character, though I really don't know much about what he wrote other than, that it was beyond logic, yet authoritative on the subject... That seems to make sense in a contradicting way.

Because Saturn has rulership over Aquarius with Uranus-Joint rulership, it wouldn't be unwise to regard them both as FIXED Saturn builds structures that hold, while Uranus BREAKS bones only to FIX them even stronger at the point of fracture.


Uranus-Pluto is something you migh want to look at as well, as those two are linking up with Saturn soonish.

i have uranus and saturn conjunct at 29 degrees of sag. in my third house.

all my life i've had crisis' of ther mind, where i would feel totally lost and dont know what to think. i would shut down and not talk. i would have headaches, and then when it passed i felt better and clearer (more understanding)

i deffinately like night skys explaination of saturn and uranus together it makes perfect sense to me.

what ive noticed with my peers who have the same conjunction, is that where ever its placed in their chart, there is an internsity and at the same time control. a bud of mine has it in the first house and hes gone one day doing impulsive rebelious things, and then later is controlled and structured. maybes hes trying to balance the two energies.


i know im rambling, but anyways good topic i i like this one cus it affects me and my peers.

what do you think about the fact that in 1988 saturn and uranus were conjunct. and in november they will be exactly opposite. maybe even square their conjunction (gotta check on that)

Modcleo. i read the rest of your post. i think when saturn and uranus together aspect chiron it creates a sense of seriousness in the individual. im speaking for myself so i dont know if its like this for everyone, but i cant take life lightly. i must know the Answers. the aspect is on the 3rd 9th house axis so that might explain the wanting to know the Truth. but i think that the aspect of saturn uranus together opposite chiron creates a seriousness and deep probing ability to find higher truths and understanding in whatever area of the chart is falls.

Hi Nicolash

Uranus-Saturn are opposite this year at about 17-20 Virgo-Pisces. So anyone with planets at these degrees should get both of these energies mixed.

Because Saturn has more than a two year stay in each sign there will be oppositions right in until 2010 where there is a MAJOR T-square. If you check it out anything in the late mutable signs and early cardinal signs will be caught up in it all.

I'm currently trying to see what possible effects of... all outer planets except Neptune making exact transits... could be.... my natal chart has such a planet in the first house on the Ascendant.

But on another note, its only one planet... so there will be other people with Sun at this degree and other planets too, they might not know what hit them.

Your natal Saturn and Uranus will be involved, are there any other close aspects to these two at 29-01 mutable-cardinal?

Any more natives or discussion on this? This is one of those natal features which I think I've just accepted without considering how it differs from a chart where these two planets are not in contact. When they are not in contact, the Saturn position would of course show the place where structure, order, form, patient planning and building, possibly old-fashioned beliefs or attitudes, potential for hard-work and more is strongly evident. The Uranus position, normally separate shows the area where progressive views and needs are centered, often a lack of patience for routine, a need for newness, change, futurism or variety, freedom.

But these two planets together, conjunct? I remember much of what I've read about it, but sometimes when it's a personal aspect of your natal chart, it an be hard sometimes to decode! Maybe it's too familiar, that's why the words seem almost bland. I feel like I'm learning nothing from the explanation because it feels normal to me.

Any thoughts on the conjunction?

I currently have uranus transiting Saturn in my 3rd house oppose ur, ven and Pluto. what should I expect.

1. Assuming a conjunction (I have one), which planet is earlier in the zodiac. The interpretation will be different. The basic idea is conservative/inventive, or such things....
if Saturn is first, the restraint is followed by revolution, but the opposite occurs where the positions are reversed.

What about aspects to the pair? Is one of the two more closely aspected? By the same planet, or by different ones?

What is their ruler doing? Rulers determine how the planets under their dominion will act. If the ruler is well conditioned, the basically malefic nature of the conjunction will be ameliorated, or tempered (in theory -- you need to see the particular chart). If the lord (dispositor -- dispositors dispose planets toward certain things and qualities) is in bad condition, the conjunction can be quite troubesome. The term lords should also be consulted. Rulership is always very important, and is often ignored (at the astrologer's peril). Use your dictionary and look up "determine," "dispose," "lord", "incline" and other words related to "rule." That will give some understanding of rulership in astrology.

If the two aspect the same planet, you must examine orb of aspect. Which of the two beholds the closer (and therefore more powerful) aspect? Is one applying, the other separating?

One way to understand such conjunctions (and aspects generally) is to remove your mind from the strictly astrological perspective (here is a conjunction of Saturn and Uranus.....What does it mean?) and instead interpret each planet singly (Saturn is in Taurus, stationary, in XX house, trine Jupiter, with Venus his lord in such n' such a condition.....all of which means thus and so) and then do the same for the other planet. Then you compare the meanings, or interpretations of the two and use common sense to see how they might work together.

For example, in my chart, Uranus beholds a partile applying minor aspect to the ruler of the horoscope, Moon (hmm...Moon's closest aspect, and it's applying partile, and Moon is lord of the horoscope -- that alone says "This is Important and a very strong influence in the life". Saturn and Uranus are in a 5 degree conjunction (so I know that something, some event most likely, happened right around age 5 and that event will help me see the meaning of the conjunction), Saturn applying to the stationary direct Uranus (aha, so Saturn is the significator and brings something to Uranus, the promittor, and activates what was promised by Uranus). Meanwhile Saturn beholds the closest square in the chart, a mutually applying one to Mercury. He is also in a 4 degree square, applying, to Sun. (Both of these aspects occur before the directed conjunction matures -- age 5 -- and they set up psychological conditions that will affect how Saturn acts -- but after the almost immediate Moon-Uranus aspect. So now we have the order of timing in terms of formation of character and precipitating events. Cool.) There is more, but these kinds of things will tell how the conjunction works. And they are in Taurus, so it will be very important to examine Venus.

If you just leave it at "Saturn conjunct Uranus" you will not get much out of the horoscope, and what you do get won't be very accurate.

I also have this aspect, on 0 degrees, also conjunct my Mars which is at 1 degree and my Neptune at 9 degrees, all in Capricorn, all in the tenth. They're all trine Jupiter sitting in my first in Aries.

I definitely feel on "edge" at times and often tested when it comes between freedom and restraints, conformity and rebelliousness, it's simultaneous. I almost HAVE to do and experience things in my own way.
Hm, when I think about those aspects, I'm surprised I don't have super anger problems!!...I'm really level, but can possess a sharp tongue (mercury square pluto) ..
When things get into crisis mode or I am stressed which feels like often nowadays, I can either choose to be a bit of a wreck or choose to take it in strides and chill out. I think I can attribute (and be thankful for) the "positive side" to the trines to Jupiter, which encourages me to see the brighter side to most situations and maintain a sense of balance...

Bob Dylan had this aspect too, guys!

greybeard said:

1. Assuming a conjunction (I have one), which planet is earlier in the zodiac. The interpretation will be different. The basic idea is conservative/inventive, or such things....
if Saturn is first, the restraint is followed by revolution, but the opposite occurs where the positions are reversed.

What about aspects to the pair? Is one of the two more closely aspected? By the same planet, or by different ones?

What is their ruler doing? Rulers determine how the planets under their dominion will act. If the ruler is well conditioned, the basically malefic nature of the conjunction will be ameliorated, or tempered (in theory -- you need to see the particular chart). If the lord (dispositor -- dispositors dispose planets toward certain things and qualities) is in bad condition, the conjunction can be quite troubesome. The term lords should also be consulted. Rulership is always very important, and is often ignored (at the astrologer's peril). Use your dictionary and look up "determine," "dispose," "lord", "incline" and other words related to "rule." That will give some understanding of rulership in astrology.

If the two aspect the same planet, you must examine orb of aspect. Which of the two beholds the closer (and therefore more powerful) aspect? Is one applying, the other separating?

One way to understand such conjunctions (and aspects generally) is to remove your mind from the strictly astrological perspective (here is a conjunction of Saturn and Uranus.....What does it mean?) and instead interpret each planet singly (Saturn is in Taurus, stationary, in XX house, trine Jupiter, with Venus his lord in such n' such a condition.....all of which means thus and so) and then do the same for the other planet. Then you compare the meanings, or interpretations of the two and use common sense to see how they might work together.

For example, in my chart, Uranus beholds a partile applying minor aspect to the ruler of the horoscope, Moon (hmm...Moon's closest aspect, and it's applying partile, and Moon is lord of the horoscope -- that alone says "This is Important and a very strong influence in the life". Saturn and Uranus are in a 5 degree conjunction (so I know that something, some event most likely, happened right around age 5 and that event will help me see the meaning of the conjunction), Saturn applying to the stationary direct Uranus (aha, so Saturn is the significator and brings something to Uranus, the promittor, and activates what was promised by Uranus). Meanwhile Saturn beholds the closest square in the chart, a mutually applying one to Mercury. He is also in a 4 degree square, applying, to Sun. (Both of these aspects occur before the directed conjunction matures -- age 5 -- and they set up psychological conditions that will affect how Saturn acts -- but after the almost immediate Moon-Uranus aspect. So now we have the order of timing in terms of formation of character and precipitating events. Cool.) There is more, but these kinds of things will tell how the conjunction works. And they are in Taurus, so it will be very important to examine Venus.

If you just leave it at "Saturn conjunct Uranus" you will not get much out of the horoscope, and what you do get won't be very accurate.

Click to expand...

I agree Greybeard, the rest of the chart is very important in regards to how this conjunction will pan out in the personality. Your story of your chart is so interesting, I have to ask why 5 years old? Is that a saturn transit thing? Or is it because it is 5 degrees? When you say "So now we have the order of timing in terms of formation of character and precipitating events"... I'd love to hear more about that and what you mean

Gosh, there are so many (fascinating) layers to astrology, I think I see 10 new things everyday that I study

Yes...Saturn is at 22, Uranus at 27. Five degrees translates to five years by direction (using one degree = one year.)

The aspects I described (using that direction) give Moon-Uranus almost immediately after birth), then the first square to perfect in the chart (Mercury-Saturn) about age 2, followed by Mercury-Sun conjunct and Sun-Saturn square...you can see how these last three are closely related.....and then along come Saturn-Uranus. Sun had squared Saturn at age 4, and continues forward to age 9 when he squares Uranus....all of this marking a long and continuous period, with certain highlights marked by the actual aspects perfecting.

All of this aspect activity provides us with a developmental clock.

Isn't astrology great? Every time you learn something new about astrology (every day), you also learn something new about life.

It really depends on the teacher or branch of astrology, some believe that: 1. the slower moving planet casts the aspect, in which case Saturn here 2. planets in the same sign have as much effect on the malefic/benefic state of a planet as it's ruler 3. conjunct planets share aspects 4. Uranus and beyond are much more generational than personal

Even with those ideas there are so many possible modifications depending on one's system; if interceptions and double signs occur, does either of these planets get 'more kingdoms to rule', if either planet rules an angle, particularly the first, orbs accepted - (some say my 5 degree conjunction is too wide) etc. is either sign more dignified in the sign itself.

I always believe that if one doesn't understand the parts, then whole can't be understood, so I think there's always merit in studying these parts independently.

The crux of the issue with this conjunction that I've seen is 1) values and traditions are generally maintained but that the native never sees fit to 'stand still', they continue to change with the times 2) natives can sometimes be apprehensive about completing change, a 'two steps forward, 1 step backward' behaviour, 3) change is usually constructively implemented in that it is planned, organized, monitored 4) leadership potential is often marked with this, combining tradition and change is not easy and these natives are some of the best placed to make it happen.

p.s. I am particularly interested in the potential for neutralizing Saturn's negative effects, I haven't looked at that in a while.

greybeard said:

Yes...Saturn is at 22, Uranus at 27. Five degrees translates to five years by direction (using one degree = one year.)

The aspects I described (using that direction) give Moon-Uranus almost immediately after birth), then the first square to perfect in the chart (Mercury-Saturn) about age 2, followed by Mercury-Sun conjunct and Sun-Saturn square...you can see how these last three are closely related.....and then along come Saturn-Uranus. Sun had squared Saturn at age 4, and continues forward to age 9 when he squares Uranus....all of this marking a long and continuous period, with certain highlights marked by the actual aspects perfecting.

All of this aspect activity provides us with a developmental clock.

Isn't astrology great? Every time you learn something new about astrology (every day), you also learn something new about life.

Click to expand...

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I get it, thank you for breaking it down into parts!! I understand it more. So, I take from its like what you get when you look at a progressed chart

Both directions and progressions offer this sort of view of the developing chart.

The simple answer is yes.

What I was describing is a "rough" method of timing events after birth. You use "one degree equals one year." It's advantage is that you can do it without any special calculations. It's easy to see in the chart that Venus in Scorpio in the 12th House applies to the conjunction of Mars with a directional arc of 3 degree 51 minutes (= age 3 years 10 months.) So it is a very handy tool.

I was reading the chart of a little boy to his mother. She was interested in knowing what to be on the lookout for in his development. He had the configuration I just described (degrees and minutes may not be accurate) and I mentioned offhandedly that there might be some issues with sexual identity. She asked when that might come to issue. I measured the arc in my head, added that to the birthdate, and said that it looked like it had already happened, last November. She said, "oh, that's when I took him to the psychiatrist." This was a little kid of around 3 years of age. Who takes a child of that age to visit the shrink? But it came along right on schedule, and she knew exactly what I was talking about, and the substance of the problem from the psychiatric viewpoint.

But back to Saturn-Uranus, or any other conjunction (or aspect). The order of the planets in the zodiac, whether the aspect applies or separates and all of those things affect how the aspect is "read."

I mentioned my own Saturn-Uranus... I said that Uranus was in a partile minor aspect to Moon, while Saturn (5 degrees earlier in the zodiac) had strong aspects to Mercury and Sun. And someone replied that he/she thought that aspects to a conjunction affected both planets [equally], and that is not how it works.

My aspect Uranus to Moon creates a deep and irresistible urge to personal freedom that tends to upset the family situation. Instability, failure of responsibility and such accompany the aspect. That is one end of the conjunction.

Meanwhile, Saturn is in close and active square to Mercury and Sun. So we might suspect depression, feelings of guilt, problems in self-esteem and such.

But what of the conjunction? Well, maybe the responsibilities and obligations, the demands, brought by Saturn at some point reach a degree of pressure that is beyond the capacity of the personality to withstand, which results in sudden acts (demand for personal freedom) that releases the pressure....but which in turn creates new levels of guilt, etc., that only serve to exacerbate the problem, resulting in a vicious cycle.

If we take this approach to reading a conjunction, we see -- first -- that aspects to the conjunction must be measured and weighed (and signs, rulers, houses... and even planets not in aspect to the conjunction ... brought into the equation) if we are to really understand what the conjunction signifies.

If we take a cookbook approach to reading a conjunction, if we say all aspects affect the conjunction (and not the individual planets) equally....then we will get a cookbook version of the significance of the conjunction, which will not tell us a whole lot that is really meaningful to the native.

If, on the other hand, we measure and weigh each thing affecting the parts of the conjunction separately, "read" them separately, and then combine (synthesize) those meanings using common sense, we will develop an amazingly detailed picture of what is going on in the native's mind and life.

Nothing in a chart is isolated. Every single thing found in a horoscope is intimately tied to everything else.

A human being is a very complex whole. If the horoscope represents that human being, doesn't it make sense that the horoscope too is a complex whole, and cannot be read as isolated units pasted together. The complex whole must be understood as just that.

That's just common sense. We need to take the magic out of astrology and replace it with common sense.

Let's take a cigarette lighter, the Zippo kind. It consists of:

A: A contained source of fuel
B: A piece of flint
C: A piece of steel

That's it. The modern cigarette lighter is nothing more than flint and steel, with a self-contained source of fuel.

It's a CONJUNCTION OF 3 PLANETS

The old Zippo is dependable. If it won't light, it's usually for one of two reasons: the flint broke or was worn down, or you have run out of fuel.

One of the components was somehow affected (an aspect to that planet). It is THAT planet alone that bore the brunt of the aspect, but its failure affects the operation of the whole.

Zippos light even in a strong wind. But some days may be so windy that not even Old Faithful can produce a flame. The flint and steel make a good spark as always, but the fuel is dispersed so rapidly by the wind that no flame results. The wind is the effect of an aspect to the planet representing the fuel.

Each of the planets in a conjunction is affected individually by the close aspects to it. What these aspects produce then affects the operation of the conjunction as a unit.