Sect vs. chart ruler

Dear People,

I am currently hooked on The Astrology Podcast by Chris Brennan and his approach to traditional astrology and promoting the ideas and practices that were lost and now are getting translated now, comming into light.

The one of the things he is pushing, after Robert Hand, who praises Whole Signs, is day and night sect. Due to this theory it was one of the major concept while looking at birth chart and planetary strenght.

So when you have Sun in the houses from 7th to 12th you have a day chart and diurnal sect, where Sun leads it, Jupiter is benefic there and Mars more malefic.
When you have Sun below the horizon, in houses from 1st to 6th - you have night chart lead by the moon, where Venus is the most beneficial and Saturn is the malefic one. Therefore you might resonate more with your moon sign.

But how to interpretate the night chart, that is ruled by the sun (Leo rising), placed below horizon and being fairly unaspected (the only aspect it has to the MC)? Moon is found in her domicile, and is the most aspected planet in the chart.

How to understand that? Because the Moon seems to be the strongest planet in the chart, but due to the Ascendant the Sun rules this whole chart. Does that find balance? Or does it mean, moon is more important?

It means that your ascendant ruler is out of sect - your life may be of more benefit to other people than it is to you. That happens sometimes, but it's nothing to get upset about. It doesn't mean you're doomed.



Moon, Venus, and Mars are 'your' planets, Saturn, Jupiter, and Sun are on the team of other people in your life, so to speak.

Oddity said:

It means that your ascendant ruler is out of sect - your life may be of more benefit to other people than it is to you. That happens sometimes, but it's nothing to get upset about. It doesn't mean you're doomed.



Moon, Venus, and Mars are 'your' planets, Saturn, Jupiter, and Sun are on the team of other people in your life, so to speak.

Click to expand...

But does it mean that despite of Sun being my chart ruler, most dominant planet is Moon in Cancer 12th house, being close to the ascendant, most aspected and leading the sect?

Good questions, Forel.

It is common for a horoscope to have a mixed testimony. Some astrologers seem to assign a point system to dignities and debilities. I think that's a bit much, but that we can assess the balance.

I wouldn't necessarily call the sun your chart ruler if you have Leo rising. It is common with modern astrology to call the planet ruling the ascendant sign the chart ruler, but traditional astrology gets more complex.

1. Almuten: planet with the most essential dignity.

2. Lord of the geniture: planet with the most essential and accidental dignity.
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/almuten.html

Forel said:

Dear People,

I am currently hooked on The Astrology Podcast by Chris Brennan

and his approach to traditional astrology

and promoting the ideas and practices that were lost

and now are getting translated now,

comming into light.

The one of the things he is pushing, after Robert Hand,
who praises Whole Signs, is day and night sect.
Due to this theory it was one of the major concept
while looking at birth chart and planetary strenght.

Click to expand...

Medieval astrology later assigned a point system
based
on dignities, debilities and so on
The almuten and Lord of the Geniture are Medieval concepts
introduced much later by
Arabian Astrologer Ibn Ezra (1089 — 1164) who was the first
(as far as we at this moment are aware)
to explicitly write about calculating the Almutem Figuris.

SECT is an Hellenistic Astrology basic consideration


.

*





Hellenistic Doctrine of Sect in Astrology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgkK...feature=em-lsp






.

Seen this?






Notice that

the abbreviation D = DAY
and
the abbreviation N = NIGHT
THE COLUMN ABBREVIATION "Trip." = TRIPLICITY


illustrating graphically
that Triplicity Rulers differ
dependent
on whether chart is
Day chart
or
Night chart



.

Sect is not restricted to Hellenistic astrology. It is/was used by non-Hellenistic trads from medieval times until today as an accidental dignity.

It's not a major dignity, but worth considering.

It was explained to me a bit like a football game-- when a planet is in-sect, its team has the ball.

waybread said:

Sect is not restricted to Hellenistic astrology

Click to expand...

SECT is basic to Hellenistic astrology

obviously
Hellenistic astrology PRECEDED Medieval astrology

waybread said:

It is/was used by non-Hellenistic trads

from medieval times until today as an accidental dignity.

Click to expand...

SECT concept was altered from the original Hellenistic cocept
by Medieval and other later astrologers

waybread said:

It's not a major dignity, but worth considering.

Click to expand...

on the contrary
for Hellenisitc astrology SECT is foundational
and of major importance

LATER MEDIEVALISTS altered it to suit their own methodology

however
beginners keep in mind that

in ancient Hellenistic times
SECT was top priority

waybread said:

It was explained to me a bit like a football game
-- when a planet is in-sect, its team has the ball.

Click to expand...

SECT analogy
from Robert Schmidt (he died December 2018)
of Project Hindsight http://www.projecthindsight.com/
is:
comparable to two Political Parties - i.e. Day Sect and Night Sect
The Party in Power and The Party in Opposition




.

Forel said:

Dear People,

I am currently hooked on The Astrology Podcast by Chris Brennan and his approach to traditional astrology and promoting the ideas and practices that were lost and now are getting translated now, comming into light.

The one of the things he is pushing, after Robert Hand, who praises Whole Signs, is day and night sect. Due to this theory it was one of the major concept while looking at birth chart and planetary strenght.

Click to expand...

Chris Brennan gives a detailed overview of the concept of sect
in astrology the difference between day and night birth charts
at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XfPLTQuB9M

Sect is a fundamental concept used in Hellenistic astrology
but it has only been recovered over the past 30 years
through translations of ancient texts.

The purpose of this talk is

to give a broad introduction to sect
by establishing how pervasive the concept is in ancient astrology
and then
to demonstrate how it works in practice through chart examples.



.

*


A lecture on the ancient method of
identifying the overall ruler of a birth chart
called the Master of the Nativity.

The Astrology Podcast presented by
astrologers Chris Brennan and Leisa Schaim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo8gXjDEQmM








.

That's all fine, JA.

The point being, that the concept of sect is not restricted to Hellenistic astrology. It appears in additional types of traditional astrology, as well.

In previous threads, you've viewed former member Paul as authoritative. We PMed a fair bit at one time and he introduced me to the concept of sect; and not as a Hellenistic astrologer.

waybread said:

That's all fine, JA.

The point being, that the concept of sect is not restricted to Hellenistic astrology. It appears in additional types of traditional astrology, as well.

In previous threads, you've viewed former member Paul as authoritative. We PMed a fair bit at one time and he introduced me to the concept of sect; and not as a Hellenistic astrologer.

Click to expand...

In your personal experience, does it add anything to your delineations?
Firmicus seem to think so. In reality I haven't seen it used convincingly.

waybread said:

That's all fine, JA.
The point being, that the concept of sect is not restricted to Hellenistic astrology. It appears in additional types of traditional astrology, as well.

Click to expand...

I comprehend your point WB
perhaps you would take time to study my point
which is


Hellenistic concept of SECT
IS THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT OF SECT

obviously and clearly then

the original Hellenistic concept of sect
was changed, altered, tweaked
to suit Medieval and Renaissance methodologies

Hellenistic concept of SECT
differs from Medieval and Renaissance Sect

waybread said:

In previous threads, you've viewed former member Paul as authoritative. We PMed a fair bit at one time
and he introduced me to the concept of sect;
and not as a Hellenistic astrologer.

Click to expand...

in previous threads back in 2011

long before Paul_ joined our forum

in particular my comments on HELLENISTIC DELINEATIONS
thread
- a thread on which you yourself frequently commented

stated clearly as follows:


"...Historically, I think it fair to say that

sect is very important in Hellenistic astrology

but its influence
diminishes significantly in medieval and renaissance astrology.
With that decline went some of the basic understanding
that went with it...." Mark Skyscript

clearly therefore
any beginners reading this thread
need to be aware that:


there is an important distinction
between Hellenistic delineation of sect
and
medieval and renaissance delineation of the same topic.


and in fact
"....Curtis Manwaring
has delineated every planet by the opposing sect in each sign and house placement....."
http://www.zodiac-x-files.com/signs/taurus-venus.html


.

JA, we totally, utterly, completely unequivocally get your point about the origins of sect in Hellenistic astrology. Big No Brainer there. Whether you take my point is open to question.

Bunraku, I find the concept of sect to be helpful when I want to spend more time with a chart--either horary or natal-- using traditional methods. It isn't a major accidental dignity/debility but it does count for something.

waybread said:

JA, we totally, utterly, completely unequivocally get your point
about the origins of sect in Hellenistic astrology.

Big No Brainer there.

Click to expand...

Indeed - definitely a No Brainer

Bunraku said:

In your personal experience, does it add anything to your delineations?
Firmicus seem to think so.
In reality I haven't seen it used convincingly.

waybread said:

Bunraku, I find the concept of sect to be helpful when I want to spend more time with a chart--either horary or natal-- using traditional methods. It isn't a major accidental dignity/debility but it does count for something.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

HOWEVER

beginners
and anyone interested to read multiple examples

of every planet having an entirely different delineation
when SECT is factored

then check out "....Curtis Manwaring
who has delineated every planet
by the opposing sect
in each sign
and house placement....."

at http://www.zodiac-x-files.com/signs/taurus-venus.html



.

Forel said:

The one of the things he is pushing, after Robert Hand,
who praises Whole Signs,

is day and night sect.


Due to this theory
it was one of the major concept
while looking at birth chart
and planetary strenght.

Click to expand...

SECT


Sun alone determines Day
Sun is NEVER visible at night
and
Sun rules a Day time house
because
Sun is visible ONLY during Day





Unlike Sun
Moon IS visible at night
ONLY because Moon REFLECTS light of Sun

and so

Moon rules a night time house
because
even if
Moon at certain phases MAY BE visible during Day
however
even an almost full moon is nothing close to the brightness of sun
Sun outshines Moon during Day
and
Moon is present at Night when Sun is absent







.

So in conclusion, how to differentiate if in my chart, where I am Leo rising with night chart, Sun or the Moon has bigger power?

Or if any, because in the docrine of finding master of native, when Sun and Moon are in cadent houses the Ascendant takes the lead. Therefore it's ruler, when we go back to the Sun. My Sun is ruled by Saturn, so does that make Saturn as most dominant?

Here's my chart



Many house systems put my Sun in the 5th house.