How accurate are times on Birth Certificates?

PlutorisingLee said:

Knowing that birth Time is important in composing an accurate Natal Chart I can't help but wonder if it can still be wrong?
And what is the right time really? The first breath, when the baby is in the mothers arms?

Also if you can pleas help:

I am also asking because I feel that my time of birth isn't right.
It is listed as 14:32 pm (looks accurate) But from what my mother told me I always thought it was 15:30-16:00 which is a big diffrence...

I do agree with the Virgo rising but according to my mother I should be a Libra rising- which fits me as well.
I have dimples and I like to pleas people but I'm also very much the Virgo rising...They are somewhat similiar don't you think?
Another big diffrence is if the Sun is Taurus in the 9th house according to the certificate or the 8th house according to my mother. But I also have Moon in Scorpio and Venus and Mercury in the 8th:
which is why I feel like the 8th house...
Can knowing this help me decide?

Thank you!

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Remember that the 1st House describes the physical appearance

Main Rulerships of 1st House ~ Life, vitality and health.
Stature, colour, complexion, form and shape of body.
Older sources note its influence upon the intellect, the way the mind works, and speech.
In general, the first house represents the focal point for the personality and manner of expression.
As well as describing the physical appearance,
the condition of this house and that of its planetary ruler
indicates the level of personal vitality and strength

Irena Stopar said:

Birth time is often not accurate. I use rectification for my and my family charts but don't offer it to my clients because it's too much time consuming. If you'll research your chart and prognostic techniques by yourself, you will recognise that some important events didn't happen when you could predict them.
This could lead you to rectification of your chart.

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There are other reasons why 'some important events didn't happen when expected'

Transits are not the be-all and the end-all
there are other important techniques to utilise in tandem with transits

in order to fine-tune
for example, profections, solar return, time lords, firdaria et al

JUPITERASC said:

There are other reasons why 'some important events didn't happen when expected'

Transits are not the be-all and the end-all
there are other important techniques to utilise in tandem with transits

in order to fine-tune
for example, profections, solar return, time lords, firdaria et al

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PlutorisingLee said:

Thank you for both answers!
But if I can't predict using major events (I'm also too young for any of them) And in my case the diffrence is ony if I'm a Virgo or Libra rising- Can I decide which fits me better?
What else can be done other then paying someone to do it?
Also why are time of birth's not accurate?

I wish I knew which of my charts is right- one promises good career the other doesnt lol maybe wait and see how that turns out and it 10 years time see which chart is right

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Common sense indicates that at the time of delivery the mother is unlikely to be focused on her watch
neither are the medical team
their sole concern is the health and safety of newborn and mother
so then
after washing, weighing, checking over the newborn
checking the mother is comfortable
then someone notes the time of birth
often from memory
sometimes the time is simply the time the birth was noted on medical records

It's not that usual to have the time witnessed by an astrologer watching out for the moment of the first breath
although that has happened from time to time by all accounts

that's why rectification techniques are available
however
astrologers do not always agree on the rectified time
and so
that's why it's a great idea to familiarise oneself with these techniques.
It's a great way of learning astrological delineation
while also working on one's own chart

PlutorisingLee said:

And in my case the diffrence is ony if I'm a Virgo or Libra rising- Can I decide which fits me better?

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PlutorisingLee said:

What else can be done other then paying someone to do it?.....

I wish I knew which of my charts is right- one promises good career the other doesnt lol
maybe wait and see how that turns out and it 10 years time see which chart is right

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There are as many ideas on Chart Rectification as there are astrologers
and it is entirely reasonable for each astrologer to have their own opinions

for example
THE CRAFT OF CHART RECTIFICATION

david starling said:

I've found that the Midheaven is much easier to identify, since your social interactions involve how others see you, and there is usually a discernible difference between how you present yourself that way. So, depending on the House system you are using, it's often possible to use the Midheaven sign to properly locate the Ascendant.

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JUPITERASC said:

If the difference is 'only if you're a Virgo or Libra rising'
then clearly
it's simply a matter of which ascendant describes your physical appearance best

because
traditionally 1st House describes
Stature, colour, complexion, form and shape of body
and describes the physical appearance

by the way
An astrological technique from antiquity now generally known as the Prenatal Epoch states:
'....Ascendant, or its opposite, at birth, is Moon's position at conception.
"Trutine of Hermes," from Hermes Trismegistus stated the law as follows:
"The place of the Moon at conception becomes the birth ascendant or its opposite point."
But this proved to be but one-half of a very important law,
for while the...
Ascendant at birth was the place of the Moon at a certain Epoch,
the Ascendant or its opposite point at this Epoch was the place of the Moon at birth
a very remarkable interchange of factors." E.H. Bailey http://www.amazon.com/The-Prenatal-E.../dp/1933303247

detailed instructions
on precisely how to calculate the pre-natal Epoch Rectification Method
may be viewed FOR FREE at http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm
all these techniques have the purpose of determining/establishing the Ascendant

RON BIPPUS 40 year researches on
PHYSICAL APPEARANCE INDICATORS is also an interesting read http://reocities.com/athens/delphi/1601/physical.html

There are as many ideas on Chart Rectification as there are astrologers
and it is entirely reasonable for each astrologer to have their own opinions

for example
THE CRAFT OF CHART RECTIFICATION http://www.forrestastrology.com/reso...-rectification

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PlutorisingLee said:

This so great!
A real art I didn't know about,

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PlutorisingLee said:

I guess I'm lucky that I only need to decide between Virgo or Libra
- But I can't do it...
Both can be described as gentle,agreeable in public or good looking- with dark hair
I have no idea if I look more like one or the other!

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PlutorisingLee said:

Same goes for MC in Cancer vs Gemini- both can't figure out a career and both adapt to public image and such.
Tricky stuff

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JUPITERASC said:

An Art that takes time to master

I think I am going to study this like crazy - once I have this obssesion figured out. I no its hard to believe but I know some Astrology- It's just that I dont trust myself to know the right chart. After all we tend to be wrong about how we are sometimes. I want to avoid making a wrong judgment just beacuase i would rather have one chart over the other.

You've been misinformed,
'both cannot be described as equally gentle agreeable in public
or good looking with dark hair'
- it's not that general


Makes sense- grasping for something, silly of me. But why all Libra rising's I know have dimples? Or if the mother is a Libra they have them?

Focus on Mercury and Venus

i.e.
Virgo's ruler is Mercury
Libra's ruler is Venus

Clearly, not all Virgo ascendants are physically identical in appearance
that's because
ruler Mercurys aspects to a Virgo ascendant vary from chart to chart
dependent on natal Mercury's sign and house location
as well as natal Mercurys aspects to other natal planets

similarly
not all Libra ascendants are physically identical in appearance
furthermore
regarding Libra
Saturn is exalted in Libra and therefore a factor as well

Focus on ascendant

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What I look like: Clues
I have a Taurus face with small ears,short neck and Audrey Hepurn eyes My nose is upturned, light skin dark curly hair.
I am not very tall or short- I look thin even when I am not. I have dimples and round chin, high cheekbones...I think I look a bit more like a Scorpio sometimes.

positivevibes said:

Good question,I know some people who are into astrology have wrong times on their birth certificates,and a few minutes really doesn't,but anywhere up to an hour or more can change a whole chart.

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david starling said:

Do you project emotional sensitivity or are you perceived as "clever" and solution-oriented? Water and Air behavior should be distinguishable from one another in your social interactions.

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Bunraku said:

I got lucky and someone recorded it precisely, but even then I wouldn't know if it's accurate. Can Horary answer "Is my birth time accurate?" ???

What houses/planets would signify the legitimacy of the birth time on the birth cert. ?

hmm...

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PlutorisingLee said:

Lets do this! If you don't mind I'm going to do it here (this might even help someone with the same issue)


Venus:
Aspects: Taurus Sun conjuncts Venus in Taurus in the 8th house

Venus trines Neptune and Uranus in Capricorn in the 4th house

Venus is Sqaure Saturn in Aquarius in the 5th or 4th house

Venus apposes Pluto in Scorpio in the 2nd house
- Can't get away from this aspect

Conclusion?

Mercury:

Is also in Taurus in the 8th house! omg
It apposes Venus in Taurus in the 8th house
And Scorpio Moon in the 2nd house=
Crazy
Mercury trines Jupiter in Virgo in the 11th or 12th house

Should I also look at aspects to the rising?

Sun trines rising which apposes Mars
But in the Virgo chart it does not appose Mars- clue?

Thank you from my heart! I you are too tired by all this maybe someone else can give me tips as well.

What I look like: Clues
I have a Taurus face with small ears,short neck and Audrey Hepurn eyes My nose is upturned, light skin dark curly hair.
I am not very tall or short- I look thin even when I am not. I have dimples and round chin, high cheekbones...I think I look a bit more like a Scorpio sometimes.

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BEGIN with Planets aspecting ascendant
particularly the ascendant ruler

so
assuming a Virgo ascendant
then check whether natal Mercury aspects ascendant
and assess the influences of the SIGN natal Mercury ocupies
as well as the nature of the aspect
and whether other natal planets are aspecting natal Mercury or not


or alternatively
assuming Libra ascendant
check whether natal Venus aspects ascendant
and assess the influences of the SIGN natal Venus occupies
as well as the nature of the aspect
and whether other natal planets are aspecting natal Venus

and so on

PlutorisingLee said:

It can change a life this hour...

How do you know your time of birth?

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