What's with the fall and detriments in my chart?

abisert

Member
1. Libra Sun (Fall)
2. Scorpio Venus (Detriment)
3. Virgo Jupiter (Detriment)
4. Cancer Saturn (Detriment)
5. Aquarius Neptune (Fall)

The only strong planet in my chart is Uranus in Aquarius.

1.) Do these falls and detriments mean anything?

2.) Do they affect my personality or say anything about it?

3.) Does it matter the number?

4.) Is there any significance of someone who has a lot of planets in their home ruler?

I checked Astrotheme for this. I knew some, but not all.
 

tripleooo

Well-known member
Well at first I may reassure you that your Neptune is not in its fall. There is no agreement among modern astrologers what the signs where Neptune and Pluto are exalted/in fall are. On the other hand, some astrologers believe that the outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto don’t have any essential dignities in any signs. I can’t call myself much of an astrologer, but I absolutely agree with this opinion. The outer planets move too slowly to be pigeonholed into the concept of planetary dignities/debilities. In other words, their positions in signs aren’t very relevant for a particular person. What is relevant though is the aspects they make and the houses they are in. Following this logic, I can say that your Uranus is not dignified by its sign placement.

Now answering your questions:

1. Yes, of course, the planets that are in fall and in detriment in your chart are important and should be taken into consideration because they shape you as a human being. But it’s important to remember that this doesn’t make you any worse of a person. In fact, even planets in their dignities don’t always function for the best of an individual. For example, Mars in Aries is a great position for your Mars, it will make you very active, courageous and fearless, but if it is badly aspected or has some other debilities, the person with this position can become self-destructive and downright aggressive. The planetary debilities show that it’s hard for the person to make much use of these positions and it requires much time and work to turn them into something benefic. It will be up to the person whether overcoming these hardships is worth the efforts or not. You can live happily even without being perfect! In fact, no one is perfect. :happy:

2. I will very quickly analyze what these positions of yours could mean, but these descriptions are rather shallow. Sun in Libra will make your sense of identity incomplete, you can never push yourself hard enough to accomplish all your goals and plans because of your desire to always be fair and just, you may suffer from problems with your self-esteem. Venus in Scorpio will make you quite obsessive in matters related to love, you may want complete dominance over your partner which will make most people feel suffocated over some time, also you’re not afraid of using manipulation; if someone turns down your love, you can be quite vindictive and, while not necessarily, sexually you can be turned on by things most other people would consider gruesome and be into some kinks. Jupiter in Virgo can make you rather narrow-minded and unable to accept other people’s positions, you may feel scared to develop spiritually and learn anything outside of your routine; you may be afraid of trying anything new even if it can be exciting for you in the end and prefer your life to always head forwards on thin railways where you can’t lean left or right. Saturn in Cancer will give you a rather shallow understanding of the concept of rules and regulations, you want to be careless and free of all your duties and responsibilities because they make you upset and unnerved; you may not work well under pressure and very often you don’t seem to realize the simple truth: if you must do something, you indeed must do it, you can’t leave at any time you want.

3. The number is not really the issue, you still have to deal with any planet individually. The positions of planets in signs make up your personality so you can’t change the main core of it but you can make the best use of them if you cut down their negative expression. Don’t think of yourself as of being doomed or cursed by the Universe, there are a lot of people that have achieved great results even with not so promising charts. Like, have you seen Charles Darwin’s chart? If you haven’t, you should. :wink:

4. Well, of course, a planet in domicile is at home, it’s exactly where it wants to be and where it should be. For people with a planet in domicile its qualities come easily and are especially potent, but it depends on the person if he will waste their positive expression or use it wisely and responsibly. With great power comes great responsibility! :smile:

Finally, the concept of domiciles/exaltations/detriments/falls is not the end. For example, you should not forget about reception. Reception means that two planets form an aspect and each of the two planets is “visiting” the other planet’s sign. Say, you have your Mercury in Aquarius and your Saturn in Gemini. They form a trine with each other. While neither of them are in domicile or exalted, together they form a “bond” which is extremely beneficial for both of them because Mercury is in domicile in Gemini and Saturn is in domicile in Aquarius. This way, working cooperatively, they can achieve great results. When both planets win from reception, it’s called mutual reception. Mutual reception can exist when there is a square or an opposition involved, this way it doesn’t particularly make matters good per se, but the conflict between the planets is a lot less troublesome.

Also in traditional astrology there were some other dignities which are mainly omitted by modern astrologers, like triplicity, term and face. Those dignities are much weaker but still deliver some good effects. The planet not having any dignity traditionally was classified as peregrine. It wasn’t seen as bad as detriment or fall, but it was somewhat close. You can read about it here: https://books.google.com/books?id=Z...q=introduction to essential dignities&f=false

And as a final point, there is another thing in astrology called as sect. It means that there are some planets which will influence you throughout your life more than the others depending on whether you were born at day or at night. If your Sun is above the horizon (houses 7-12), you were born at day, if your Sun is below the horizon (houses 1-6), you were born at night. The Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are said to be the diurnal planets, while the Moon, Venus and Mars are said to be the nocturnal ones. Mercury doesn’t strictly fall into neither of these categories, but is diurnal when oriental of the Sun (rises and sets before the Sun) and nocturnal when occidental of the Sun (rises and sets after the Sun). It’s also the concept of the traditional astrology. So in your case if you were born at day, you can expect somewhat less problems from your Sun, Jupiter and Saturn and if your were born at night, your Venus will be less problematic.
 
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Oddity

Well-known member
First, determine whether you were born day or night. That's going to affect it, too.

If you were born during the day, Sun, Saturn, Jupiter will be better-behaved even if they're debilitated. At night, Moon, Mars, and Venus are better-behaved.

Now then. Look at the houses your debilitated planets rule. That's most likely the areas of your life that will be more troublesome. How troublesome is going to depend on your whole chart, but this will give you some idea.
 

abisert

Member
First, determine whether you were born day or night. That's going to affect it, too.

If you were born during the day, Sun, Saturn, Jupiter will be better-behaved even if they're debilitated. At night, Moon, Mars, and Venus are better-behaved.

Now then. Look at the houses your debilitated planets rule. That's most likely the areas of your life that will be more troublesome. How troublesome is going to depend on your whole chart, but this will give you some idea.

Oh, I was born in the day at 6 AM.

Sun is in 1st (Self), Saturn is in 9th (Philosophy), and Jupiter is in 11th (Friends).
Leo + 11th, Cancer + 10th, Pisces + 5th or Saggitarius in 3rd

And I'm guessing how troublesome it will be by the aspects between other planets?

Well at first I may reassure you that your Neptune is not in its fall. There is no agreement among modern astrologers what the signs where Neptune and Pluto are exalted/in fall are. On the other hand, some astrologers believe that the outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto don’t have any essential dignities in any signs. I can’t call myself much of an astrologer, but I absolutely agree with this opinion. The outer planets move too slowly to be pigeonholed into the concept of planetary dignities/debilities. In other words, their positions in signs aren’t very relevant for a particular person. What is relevant though is the aspects they make and the houses they are in. Following this logic, I can say that your Uranus is not dignified by its sign placement.

Now answering your questions:

1. Yes, of course, the planets that are in fall and in detriment in your chart are important and should be taken into consideration because they shape you as a human being. But it’s important to remember that this doesn’t make you any worse of a person. In fact, even planets in their dignities don’t always function for the best of an individual. For example, Mars in Aries is a great position for your Mars, it will make you very active, courageous and fearless, but if it is badly aspected or has some other debilities, the person with this position can become self-destructive and downright aggressive. The planetary debilities show that it’s hard for the person to make much use of these positions and it requires much time and work to turn them into something benefic. It will be up to the person whether overcoming these hardships is worth the efforts or not. You can live happily even without being perfect! In fact, no one is perfect. :happy:

2. I will very quickly analyze what these positions of yours could mean, but these descriptions are rather shallow. Sun in Libra will make your sense of identity incomplete, you can never push yourself hard enough to accomplish all your goals and plans because of your desire to always be fair and just, you may suffer from problems with your self-esteem. Venus in Scorpio will make you quite obsessive in matters related to love, you may want complete dominance over your partner which will make most people feel suffocated over some time, also you’re not afraid of using manipulation; if someone turns down your love, you can be quite vindictive and, while not necessarily, sexually you can be turned on by things most other people would consider gruesome and be into some kinks. Jupiter in Virgo can make you rather narrow-minded and unable to accept other people’s positions, you may feel scared to develop spiritually and learn anything outside of your routine; you may be afraid of trying anything new even if it can be exciting for you in the end and prefer your life to always head forwards on thin railways where you can’t lean left or right. Saturn in Cancer will give you a rather shallow understanding of the concept of rules and regulations, you want to be careless and free of all your duties and responsibilities because they make you upset and unnerved; you may not work well under pressure and very often you don’t seem to realize the simple truth: if you must do something, you indeed must do it, you can’t leave at any time you want.

3. The number is not really the issue, you still have to deal with any planet individually. The positions of planets in signs make up your personality so you can’t change the main core of it but you can make the best use of them if you cut down their negative expression. Don’t think of yourself as of being doomed or cursed by the Universe, there are a lot of people that have achieved great results even with not so promising charts. Like, have you seen Charles Darwin’s chart? If you haven’t, you should. :wink:

4. Well, of course, a planet in domicile is at home, it’s exactly where it wants to be and where it should be. For people with a planet in domicile its qualities come easily and are especially potent, but it depends on the person if he will waste their positive expression or use it wisely and responsibly. With great power comes great responsibility! :smile:

Finally, the concept of domiciles/exaltations/detriments/falls is not the end. For example, you should not forget about reception. Reception means that two planets form an aspect and each of the two planets is “visiting” the other planet’s sign. Say, you have your Mercury in Aquarius and your Saturn in Gemini. They form a trine with each other. While neither of them are in domicile or exalted, together they form a “bond” which is extremely beneficial for both of them because Mercury is in domicile in Gemini and Saturn is in domicile in Aquarius. This way, working cooperatively, they can achieve great results. When both planets win from reception, it’s called mutual reception. Mutual reception can exist when there is a square or an opposition involved, this way it doesn’t particularly make matters good per se, but the conflict between the planets is a lot less troublesome.

Also in traditional astrology there were some other dignities which are mainly omitted by modern astrologers, like triplicity, term and face. Those dignities are much weaker but still deliver some good effects. The planet not having any dignity traditionally was classified as peregrine. It wasn’t seen as bad as detriment or fall, but it was somewhat close. You can read about it here: https://books.google.com/books?id=Z...q=introduction to essential dignities&f=false

And as a final point, there is another thing in astrology called as sect. It means that there are some planets which will influence you throughout your life more than the others depending on whether you were born at day or at night. If your Sun is above the horizon (houses 7-12), you were born at day, if your Sun is below the horizon (houses 1-6), you were born at night. The Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are said to be the diurnal planets, while the Moon, Venus and Mars are said to be the nocturnal ones. Mercury doesn’t strictly fall into neither of these categories, but is diurnal when oriental of the Sun (rises and sets before the Sun) and nocturnal when occidental of the Sun (rises and sets after the Sun). It’s also the concept of the traditional astrology. So in your case if you were born at day, you can expect somewhat less problems from your Sun, Jupiter and Saturn and if your were born at night, your Venus will be less problematic.

I was born in the day, so I'll have less problems with Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn.

Also, they were good enough descriptions as I didn't post my chart. I felt like I didn't need to put birth data for this one.
 

tripleooo

Well-known member
Oh, I was born in the day at 6 AM.

Sun is in 1st (Self), Saturn is in 9th (Philosophy), and Jupiter is in 11th (Friends).
Leo + 11th, Cancer + 10th, Pisces + 5th or Saggitarius in 3rd

And I'm guessing how troublesome it will be by the aspects between other planets?


I was born in the day, so I'll have less problems with Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn.

Also, they were good enough descriptions as I didn't post my chart. I felt like I didn't need to put birth data for this one.

I've looked up your chart since you posted it on another thread. Your Sun is indeed in the 1st house, which means that you were born at night, not at day! Did you read my last paragraph attentively? By the way, your Mercury in the 1st and your Jupiter in the 11th are in their houses of joy which is really good!

Regarding the reception, the only aspect benefitting from it is, as far as I can see, the opposition between your Mars in Pisces and Jupiter in Virgo. It's not mutual but Jupiter here definitely wins from this because Pisces is Jupiter's night ruler.

As for the traditional essential dignities, your Venus is in her own term, your Mercury is in air triplicity, your Moon is in earth triplicity and your Mars is in water triplicity (though I wouldn't really agree with the tradition on the Moon and Mars being in triplicity). The whole table of them is here: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html (I used the first one).
 
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pharvey0829

Active member
Well at first I may reassure you that your Neptune is not in its fall. There is no agreement among modern astrologers what the signs where Neptune and Pluto are exalted/in fall are. On the other hand, some astrologers believe that the outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto don’t have any essential dignities in any signs. I can’t call myself much of an astrologer, but I absolutely agree with this opinion. The outer planets move too slowly to be pigeonholed into the concept of planetary dignities/debilities. In other words, their positions in signs aren’t very relevant for a particular person. What is relevant though is the aspects they make and the houses they are in. Following this logic, I can say that your Uranus is not dignified by its sign placement.

Now answering your questions:

1. Yes, of course, the planets that are in fall and in detriment in your chart are important and should be taken into consideration because they shape you as a human being. But it’s important to remember that this doesn’t make you any worse of a person. In fact, even planets in their dignities don’t always function for the best of an individual. For example, Mars in Aries is a great position for your Mars, it will make you very active, courageous and fearless, but if it is badly aspected or has some other debilities, the person with this position can become self-destructive and downright aggressive. The planetary debilities show that it’s hard for the person to make much use of these positions and it requires much time and work to turn them into something benefic. It will be up to the person whether overcoming these hardships is worth the efforts or not. You can live happily even without being perfect! In fact, no one is perfect. :happy:

2. I will very quickly analyze what these positions of yours could mean, but these descriptions are rather shallow. Sun in Libra will make your sense of identity incomplete, you can never push yourself hard enough to accomplish all your goals and plans because of your desire to always be fair and just, you may suffer from problems with your self-esteem. Venus in Scorpio will make you quite obsessive in matters related to love, you may want complete dominance over your partner which will make most people feel suffocated over some time, also you’re not afraid of using manipulation; if someone turns down your love, you can be quite vindictive and, while not necessarily, sexually you can be turned on by things most other people would consider gruesome and be into some kinks. Jupiter in Virgo can make you rather narrow-minded and unable to accept other people’s positions, you may feel scared to develop spiritually and learn anything outside of your routine; you may be afraid of trying anything new even if it can be exciting for you in the end and prefer your life to always head forwards on thin railways where you can’t lean left or right. Saturn in Cancer will give you a rather shallow understanding of the concept of rules and regulations, you want to be careless and free of all your duties and responsibilities because they make you upset and unnerved; you may not work well under pressure and very often you don’t seem to realize the simple truth: if you must do something, you indeed must do it, you can’t leave at any time you want.

3. The number is not really the issue, you still have to deal with any planet individually. The positions of planets in signs make up your personality so you can’t change the main core of it but you can make the best use of them if you cut down their negative expression. Don’t think of yourself as of being doomed or cursed by the Universe, there are a lot of people that have achieved great results even with not so promising charts. Like, have you seen Charles Darwin’s chart? If you haven’t, you should. :wink:

4. Well, of course, a planet in domicile is at home, it’s exactly where it wants to be and where it should be. For people with a planet in domicile its qualities come easily and are especially potent, but it depends on the person if he will waste their positive expression or use it wisely and responsibly. With great power comes great responsibility! :smile:

Finally, the concept of domiciles/exaltations/detriments/falls is not the end. For example, you should not forget about reception. Reception means that two planets form an aspect and each of the two planets is “visiting” the other planet’s sign. Say, you have your Mercury in Aquarius and your Saturn in Gemini. They form a trine with each other. While neither of them are in domicile or exalted, together they form a “bond” which is extremely beneficial for both of them because Mercury is in domicile in Gemini and Saturn is in domicile in Aquarius. This way, working cooperatively, they can achieve great results. When both planets win from reception, it’s called mutual reception. Mutual reception can exist when there is a square or an opposition involved, this way it doesn’t particularly make matters good per se, but the conflict between the planets is a lot less troublesome.

Also in traditional astrology there were some other dignities which are mainly omitted by modern astrologers, like triplicity, term and face. Those dignities are much weaker but still deliver some good effects. The planet not having any dignity traditionally was classified as peregrine. It wasn’t seen as bad as detriment or fall, but it was somewhat close. You can read about it here: https://books.google.com/books?id=Z...q=introduction to essential dignities&f=false

And as a final point, there is another thing in astrology called as sect. It means that there are some planets which will influence you throughout your life more than the others depending on whether you were born at day or at night. If your Sun is above the horizon (houses 7-12), you were born at day, if your Sun is below the horizon (houses 1-6), you were born at night. The Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are said to be the diurnal planets, while the Moon, Venus and Mars are said to be the nocturnal ones. Mercury doesn’t strictly fall into neither of these categories, but is diurnal when oriental of the Sun (rises and sets before the Sun) and nocturnal when occidental of the Sun (rises and sets after the Sun). It’s also the concept of the traditional astrology. So in your case if you were born at day, you can expect somewhat less problems from your Sun, Jupiter and Saturn and if your were born at night, your Venus will be less problematic.

I believe Jeffrey Dahmer had 4 planets in domicile and look at how he turned out.
 

tripleooo

Well-known member
I believe Jeffrey Dahmer had 4 planets in domicile and look at how he turned out.

You’re correct, he had 4 planets in domicile: Mercury in Gemini, Venus in Taurus, Mars in Aries and Saturn in Capricorn. However, if you look at his chart, you’ll notice that he had a stellium in the 8th house: Sun, Mercury and his ascendant’s ruler Venus. It can explain his unhealthy and destructive interests, because the 8th house, traditionally malefic, is primarily linked to death. The Moon, denoting his ability to feel other people’s emotions and empathize, in his case is peregrine in Aries and forms a rather ominous square with Saturn, which is itself dignified, but the reception is very negative: Saturn receives the Moon in her detriment and the Moon receives Saturn in its fall. But keeping astrology aside, don’t forget that Dahmer didn’t have a very healthy home life, which probably brought up his worse sides. Who knows where he would have been if he had different parents… I don’t know really, those are just my thoughts.

Obviously having dignified planets doesn’t suggest that you’ll be perfect. But it’s easier to show the planet’s best qualities when it’s dignified. Everything I’ve said still stands.
 
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