Ptolemaic Dignities
- Thread starter petosiris
- Start date
1. Domiciles are similar to all authors.
2. Triangles are made according to the Chaldean scheme. Mars is ruler both by day and night, though Venus cooperates by day, and the Moon cooperates by night.
3. Elevations and Depressions are similar to all authors, though Ptolemy rightly disagrees with those who have posited degrees.
4. Terms are constructed according to his adequate instructions, which are slightly different from other tables out there.
5. Ptolemy does not mention decans, he uses proper faces (1.23, 3.13 etc.), which are determined by whole-sign according to the solar and lunar halves (1.17).
I. Planet with two of the above are said to be in their ''chariots'' or ''thrones''.
II. Planets in their own places and in degrees of planets of their same sect rejoice.
III. Planets in unfamiliar places and in degrees of planets of the opposite sect are weak.
For example, Jupiter would be at the throne at 18 Libra if the Sun is in Gemini, or if the Moon is in Aquarius. The Sun in Aries or Leo by day would be in its throne, as would the Moon by night in Taurus.
For example by this scheme the Sun would rejoice in Sagittarius, Jupiter would in Aries, Venus would in Cancer, both by and by night, most especially if they occupy the terms of planets of the same sect, diurnal or nocturnal.
For example by this scheme the Sun would be weak in the last six degrees of Taurus, as would Venus in the last six degrees of Sagittarius. Planets in their depressions are always weak with respect to the universe. This power is mixed with the one with respect to the nativity, weak planet rising or culminating is still moderately powerful, even as the planet on throne is if it is declining. Ptolemy does not mention detriment, instead he employed an additional seasonal scheme for determination of power (see http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/1B*.html#10)
2. Triangles are made according to the Chaldean scheme. Mars is ruler both by day and night, though Venus cooperates by day, and the Moon cooperates by night.
3. Elevations and Depressions are similar to all authors, though Ptolemy rightly disagrees with those who have posited degrees.
4. Terms are constructed according to his adequate instructions, which are slightly different from other tables out there.
5. Ptolemy does not mention decans, he uses proper faces (1.23, 3.13 etc.), which are determined by whole-sign according to the solar and lunar halves (1.17).
I. Planet with two of the above are said to be in their ''chariots'' or ''thrones''.
II. Planets in their own places and in degrees of planets of their same sect rejoice.
III. Planets in unfamiliar places and in degrees of planets of the opposite sect are weak.
For example, Jupiter would be at the throne at 18 Libra if the Sun is in Gemini, or if the Moon is in Aquarius. The Sun in Aries or Leo by day would be in its throne, as would the Moon by night in Taurus.
For example by this scheme the Sun would rejoice in Sagittarius, Jupiter would in Aries, Venus would in Cancer, both by and by night, most especially if they occupy the terms of planets of the same sect, diurnal or nocturnal.
For example by this scheme the Sun would be weak in the last six degrees of Taurus, as would Venus in the last six degrees of Sagittarius. Planets in their depressions are always weak with respect to the universe. This power is mixed with the one with respect to the nativity, weak planet rising or culminating is still moderately powerful, even as the planet on throne is if it is declining. Ptolemy does not mention detriment, instead he employed an additional seasonal scheme for determination of power (see http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/1B*.html#10)
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
You have headed column one PLACE rather than SIGN
and
column two HOUSE in preference to LORD
that's interesting
and
column two HOUSE in preference to LORD
that's interesting
You have headed column one PLACE rather than SIGN
and
column two HOUSE in preference to LORD
that's interesting
Well, I prefer place to sign because of the latter being connected with the constellations, whereas Ptolemy explains their power with respect to the seasons. I prefer house to lord, since every planet under the respective column, bar proper face, is lord. Indeed, according to Ptolemy, the elevation, triangle and term lords have equal or similar power as the house lord. This is contrary to the later authors, who said house is + 5, exaltation is + 4, triangle is + 3, term is + 2, and ''face'' is + 1.
But Ptolemy is correct, since there is no reason to the prefer the lordship of Venus over the lordship of Saturn in Libra for example. Exaltations, triangles and terms are also houses, and are used interchangeably by all Hellenistic authors.
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
constellation conundrums
so house of Mars, house of Venus and so on
scribes diluted/mistranslated/misunderstood texts as time passed
Correct, the only peculiarity one may face is elevation and depression instead of exaltation and fall. The latter have different connotation that I sometimes decline to use.
That is partly correct, but when it comes to the table, they seem to have been left alone without a table in the original text (in my opinion), hence the diversity of Ptolemaic tables.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Exaltaltion has religious connotations
as does Fall aka "fall from grace" et al
whereas in contrast
Elevation and Depression
is terminology with connotations to psychology
nevertheless
Elevation and Depression
are preferable descriptive terms
to the previous labels
We do not accept an opposition to the domicile as affliction, nor an opposition to the triangle, nor an opposition to the term, since these oppositions do not experience the same kind of powers as the exaltation, that is to say, they are not polar, but rather confined to their specific portions of the ecliptic. One can immediately see this from the oppositions of similar triangles and terms, though to be sure, some of the detriments make sense by virtue of the opposition of seasons, for example Saturn in Cancer is weakened due to the heating summer and the disharmony of the nocturnal rulers, though this is not correct in other aspects, such as Venus in Aries, or even the magnitudes of the Sun in Aquarius compared to in Capricorn, by which I mean that they are similarly cooling, as is Saturn in Leo compared to Cancer in heat, but not in rulership.
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
and so
Elevation and Depression are INDEPENDENT of SIGN
irrrespective of whether that SIGN is Sidereal or otherwise
and so
Elevation and Depression are INDEPENDENT of SIGN
irrrespective of whether that SIGN is Sidereal or otherwise
False, since the Sun causes the decrease of daylight and the beginning of autumn the second it ingresses into tropical Libra. The same applies to all planets, as the signs are the divisions of the seasons by three.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
and so
Elevation and Depression are INDEPENDENT of SIGN
irrrespective of whether that SIGN is Sidereal or otherwise
not necessarily entirely false
only true for Northern Hemisphere
because
relevant to
Southern Hemisphere
Sun Ingress into tropical Libra = Spring
JA, at the depression of the Sun in the Northern Hemisphere, you have its elevation for the antipode inhabitants of the Southern Hemisphere
Whether you call that bicameral Libra, or Libra or 7 or Bob for the North, and Aries or 1 or Josh for the South does not change reality.
Whether you call that bicameral Libra, or Libra or 7 or Bob for the North, and Aries or 1 or Josh for the South does not change reality.
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
and so
Elevation and Depression are INDEPENDENT of SIGN
irrrespective of whether that SIGN is Sidereal or otherwise
not necessarily entirely false
only true for Northern Hemisphere
because
relevant to
Southern Hemisphere
Sun Ingress into tropical Libra = Spring
I mentioned that light years agoJA, at the depression of the Sun in the Northern Hemisphere,
you have its elevation for the antipode inhabitants of the Southern Hemisphere
see my post above
i.e.
relevant to
Southern Hemisphere
Sun Ingress into tropical Libra = Spring
Quite
when Sun ingresses Northern Hemisphere Spring
Sun does not simultaneously ingress Southern Hemisphere Spring
instead
Sun ingresses Sothern Hemisphere Autumn
as I said earlier
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
clarify "Inb4"
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
clarify "Inb4"
Siriusly
SunConjunctUranus
Well-known member
PtolemyFan,
What is the REASON to switch back to Tropical? I thought the ruler of Sidereal are not in their "original" place?
Pisces = Domicile of Saturn?
Cancer = Domicile of Mercury?
,Etc
Thx
R
R
What is the REASON to switch back to Tropical? I thought the ruler of Sidereal are not in their "original" place?
Pisces = Domicile of Saturn?
Cancer = Domicile of Mercury?
,Etc
Thx
R
R
The REASON is °C.