Scorpios are considered charismatic. Why is this?
- Thread starter anne3
- Start date
sworm09
Well-known member
Well....being a Scorpio doesn't mean much. If your Sun is in Scorpio...well, good. Millions of people are born with Sun in Scorpio and they don't share personality traits. Scorpio Ascendant? Maybe, but even then, the positioning of the Ascendant ruler changes things. When you make statements like "Scorpios are considered charismatic" or are "loners" you have to realize that what your saying is Sun-sign generalized garbage. I'm not blaming you for being interested in it, but it's annoying to see trash websites and books push stuff like this out as astrology. Other configurations in a natal chart make generalizations like this worthless.
Scorpio888
Well-known member
Sun in Scorpios (and I am one) aren't not terribly charismatic, no.
Scorpio Rising absolutely is, however. (And much deadlier).
Scorpio Rising absolutely is, however. (And much deadlier).
Taurus and Leo are fixed signs, too, and they're leaders -- for better or for worse -- quite often.
signs ruled by malefic planets are not very "dear"
or charismatic
a person can have the ascendant in libra, but many aspects between Saturn / Pluto / Mars
it will be difficult to be wanted
can be magnetic, attractive, respectable
but that thing "oh my god, I like you" will not have,maybe
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I agree that ascending scorpion can be very appealing, mystical, enchanting
but people can judge you as anti-pathic.
because scorpion not has "a friendly" aura and few people will feel the urge to get close.
This sign is not given the superficial charms and flirtations.
is also a sign of water and feminine polarity, so it's not the best to be on ascendant the up because it is considered somewhat melancholy and not "wow he is charismatic, charming, happy " as a gemini rising would.
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but as I said, the "charisma" depends on the map as a whole, not just the sun and ascendant will determine
and important for the personal charm
is also in conjunctions (in every place on the chart), squares, Trines and sextiles in the ascendant, it is the way one expresses
suppose you are a scorpio rising with venus in libra and
sun trine ascendant.
maybe the venus in libra (scorpio rising,12th house) be shy,but you can be more smooth and charming,full of good manners,receptive
with rules of personal behavior refined than usual in relationships.
with the sun trine ascendant you have a more open body language.
such as smiling more, stir in the hair, get comfortable in public places (or unconsciously demonstrate this)
people can realize with you a bit too bright and proud.
these last two factors could already make you very charismatic and charmous in a work environment, eg
or charismatic
a person can have the ascendant in libra, but many aspects between Saturn / Pluto / Mars
it will be difficult to be wanted
can be magnetic, attractive, respectable
but that thing "oh my god, I like you" will not have,maybe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that ascending scorpion can be very appealing, mystical, enchanting
but people can judge you as anti-pathic.
because scorpion not has "a friendly" aura and few people will feel the urge to get close.
This sign is not given the superficial charms and flirtations.
is also a sign of water and feminine polarity, so it's not the best to be on ascendant the up because it is considered somewhat melancholy and not "wow he is charismatic, charming, happy " as a gemini rising would.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
but as I said, the "charisma" depends on the map as a whole, not just the sun and ascendant will determine
and important for the personal charm
is also in conjunctions (in every place on the chart), squares, Trines and sextiles in the ascendant, it is the way one expresses
suppose you are a scorpio rising with venus in libra and
sun trine ascendant.
maybe the venus in libra (scorpio rising,12th house) be shy,but you can be more smooth and charming,full of good manners,receptive
with rules of personal behavior refined than usual in relationships.
with the sun trine ascendant you have a more open body language.
such as smiling more, stir in the hair, get comfortable in public places (or unconsciously demonstrate this)
people can realize with you a bit too bright and proud.
these last two factors could already make you very charismatic and charmous in a work environment, eg
miquar
Well-known member
Hi Anne. Its an interesting question. In response to some of the comments put up so far, I'd like to say that the Scorpio Sun people that I know most definitely do share certain traits. Although conscious identification with one's Sun sign is not automatic and often has to be worked at, the Sun sign always makes its presence felt on every level in one way or another. In any case, A Scorpio person isn't necessarily someone with Sun in Scorpio - there are various ways that this sign can be highlighted in the chart. Your question could perhaps be re-phrased as 'Why is so Scorpio consciousness so charismatic when we encounter it in others?' Or 'Why are people who are attuned to Scorpio consciousness often so charismatic?'
Each zodiac sign symbolises one of twelve basic facets of the life-force. (The zodiac could be divided into any number of equal contiguous segments, but it so happens that significant shifts of meaning occur at 30 degree intervals around a zodiacal cycle, and so we have the twelve 30 degree signs.) Each facet of the life-force needs to be used in a different way to the others. This is reflected in the seasonal cycle, whereby germination or birth must be prioritised by a given species at a certain time of year, while dormancy or hibernation must be prioritised at another time of year.
As the life-giving Sun transits through Scorpio, nature is prioritising the release of resources back into the ecosystem. On the level of human psychology, Scorpio consciousness is concerned with tapping into the 'energy born of relationship' (Rudhyar). Scorpio is the second of the social signs. Where Libra consciousness develops communal principles (air) and tries to live by them, Scorpio consciousness opens the self to feelings (water) of togetherness. These Scorpionic feelings penetrate the sense of self in a way that Libran thoughts don't, and the response of the self is often ambivalent.
We want to surrender the smaller self to the greater whole - to experience this power born of relationship. Ideally we will want to act as a creative channel for this power for the good of the greater whole, but perhaps we are lusting after intimacy, wealth or control over others. And yet we fear the intensity of such an experience - the threat of annihilation. As individuals and as a collective we contrive boundaries in an attempt to keep this power under control, and so certain expressions of the power become taboo. In many people's experience, this adds to the charisma of those who promise to unleash this power.
Its no doubt relevant also that those who find Scorpio consciousness charismatic in others are often those who are attuned to this type of consciousness themselves. On some level they want to experience the 'power born of relationship' but need someone else to initiate such an experience because they tend to hold back.
Since Scorpio consciousness delves beneath the surface to illuminate that from which others may recoil, those who are attuned to this type of consciousness often feel a need to be secretive. This can manifest as a rather enigmatic persona, which is closely linked to charisma.
Each zodiac sign symbolises one of twelve basic facets of the life-force. (The zodiac could be divided into any number of equal contiguous segments, but it so happens that significant shifts of meaning occur at 30 degree intervals around a zodiacal cycle, and so we have the twelve 30 degree signs.) Each facet of the life-force needs to be used in a different way to the others. This is reflected in the seasonal cycle, whereby germination or birth must be prioritised by a given species at a certain time of year, while dormancy or hibernation must be prioritised at another time of year.
As the life-giving Sun transits through Scorpio, nature is prioritising the release of resources back into the ecosystem. On the level of human psychology, Scorpio consciousness is concerned with tapping into the 'energy born of relationship' (Rudhyar). Scorpio is the second of the social signs. Where Libra consciousness develops communal principles (air) and tries to live by them, Scorpio consciousness opens the self to feelings (water) of togetherness. These Scorpionic feelings penetrate the sense of self in a way that Libran thoughts don't, and the response of the self is often ambivalent.
We want to surrender the smaller self to the greater whole - to experience this power born of relationship. Ideally we will want to act as a creative channel for this power for the good of the greater whole, but perhaps we are lusting after intimacy, wealth or control over others. And yet we fear the intensity of such an experience - the threat of annihilation. As individuals and as a collective we contrive boundaries in an attempt to keep this power under control, and so certain expressions of the power become taboo. In many people's experience, this adds to the charisma of those who promise to unleash this power.
Its no doubt relevant also that those who find Scorpio consciousness charismatic in others are often those who are attuned to this type of consciousness themselves. On some level they want to experience the 'power born of relationship' but need someone else to initiate such an experience because they tend to hold back.
Since Scorpio consciousness delves beneath the surface to illuminate that from which others may recoil, those who are attuned to this type of consciousness often feel a need to be secretive. This can manifest as a rather enigmatic persona, which is closely linked to charisma.
miquar
Well-known member
I think the drama comes of the release of the power, because it erupts from an uncivilised part of the psyche. And it has to upset the status quo so that people can develop deeper and more truthful intimacy with one another, rather than a pseudo-intimacy based on mind games and such like. Where there is Scorpio energy we may see things as a fight for survival because of the fear of annihilation.
I don't think that there is an inherent desire to lead in Scorpio consciousness, Darth. But if someone feels vulnerable, they may try to harness the 'power born of relationship' rather than risk having it used against them by someone else. Its important for us to recognise this fear when we are caught up in some Scorpionic/Plutonian drama. I know plenty of Scorpio types who are afraid of using power unwisely. Scorpio-types can be loners, but many apparent loner-Scorpios experience a connectedness with life that non-Scorpio types have no idea is possible.
Its interesting, Darth, that your posts are often potentially alienating - your post on this thread being an example of this - and so perhaps your perception of Scorpio-types as 'hated outcasts with poor social skills' contains some element of projection. I guess you must feel that you gain something from playing the role of the antagoniser, and perhaps you don't want to look too closely at that because this may uncover a sense of vulnerability hiding beneath - thus the projection. Just a thought. I await a suitably dramatic response!
I don't think that there is an inherent desire to lead in Scorpio consciousness, Darth. But if someone feels vulnerable, they may try to harness the 'power born of relationship' rather than risk having it used against them by someone else. Its important for us to recognise this fear when we are caught up in some Scorpionic/Plutonian drama. I know plenty of Scorpio types who are afraid of using power unwisely. Scorpio-types can be loners, but many apparent loner-Scorpios experience a connectedness with life that non-Scorpio types have no idea is possible.
Its interesting, Darth, that your posts are often potentially alienating - your post on this thread being an example of this - and so perhaps your perception of Scorpio-types as 'hated outcasts with poor social skills' contains some element of projection. I guess you must feel that you gain something from playing the role of the antagoniser, and perhaps you don't want to look too closely at that because this may uncover a sense of vulnerability hiding beneath - thus the projection. Just a thought. I await a suitably dramatic response!
Birch Dragon
Well-known member
miquar's bringing the brilliance here.
anne3, given the focuses of your recent threads, your Scorpio North Node and your substantial number of planets in Libra in the 8th house, I think it's particularly important for you to catch the deeper understanding of Scorpio that miquar's bringing forth: the focus on Scorpio as a sign of relationships in particular.
My sense is that understanding what that whole quadrant has in common (Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius - 7th, 8th and 9th house), and the difference between Libra and Scorpio, are major themes for anne3 to ponder as she stares into her natal chart.
And when I say ponder I mean, like, for years...
Sorry for leaving it at that and being cryptic. I'm practicing shorter posts.
Actually, I just don't have the time to energy to compose the essay that I'll inevitably launch into if I start elaborating...
anne3, given the focuses of your recent threads, your Scorpio North Node and your substantial number of planets in Libra in the 8th house, I think it's particularly important for you to catch the deeper understanding of Scorpio that miquar's bringing forth: the focus on Scorpio as a sign of relationships in particular.
My sense is that understanding what that whole quadrant has in common (Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius - 7th, 8th and 9th house), and the difference between Libra and Scorpio, are major themes for anne3 to ponder as she stares into her natal chart.
And when I say ponder I mean, like, for years...
Sorry for leaving it at that and being cryptic. I'm practicing shorter posts.
Actually, I just don't have the time to energy to compose the essay that I'll inevitably launch into if I start elaborating...
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Lotus
Well-known member
Thanks for your posts Miquar, very illuminating. There's a lot in what you said that I could ponder on for quite awhile! (I have scorp sun plus 4 other planets in scorp.)
Thanks for pointing out that scorpio consciousness is concerned with the energy of relationships, I tend to forget that. Interesting that you said that Scorpio is the second of the social signs, I didn't know that! I would expect libra to be a social sign, but I wouldn't of initally guessed scorpio. It makes sense though after reading your posts. Out of interest, what is the third social sign? Saggitarius?
I've been quite the loner in recent years and now am trying to accept my deep desires for intimacy. I tend to move towards someone and then really backing off for fear of rejection and fear of my own intense desire to be close to them.
Often when I am in social situations, I feel like I am being 'too much' as in I am often trying to relate deeply to others. I feel that others find it too overwhelming but perhaps I am projecting that feeling and perhaps there may be a level of enjoyment and appreciation from them.
I tend to want things to be out in the open, what we are all feeling and thinking but not talking about openly. Just last night, I was in a social situation and querying people as to why we all just didn't openly talk about love and our human need to connect!
Thanks for pointing out that scorpio consciousness is concerned with the energy of relationships, I tend to forget that. Interesting that you said that Scorpio is the second of the social signs, I didn't know that! I would expect libra to be a social sign, but I wouldn't of initally guessed scorpio. It makes sense though after reading your posts. Out of interest, what is the third social sign? Saggitarius?
I've been quite the loner in recent years and now am trying to accept my deep desires for intimacy. I tend to move towards someone and then really backing off for fear of rejection and fear of my own intense desire to be close to them.
Often when I am in social situations, I feel like I am being 'too much' as in I am often trying to relate deeply to others. I feel that others find it too overwhelming but perhaps I am projecting that feeling and perhaps there may be a level of enjoyment and appreciation from them.
I tend to want things to be out in the open, what we are all feeling and thinking but not talking about openly. Just last night, I was in a social situation and querying people as to why we all just didn't openly talk about love and our human need to connect!
Lotus
Well-known member
miquar's bringing the brilliance here.
anne3, given the focuses of your recent threads, your Scorpio North Node and your substantial number of planets in Libra in the 8th house, I think it's particularly important for you to catch the deeper understanding of Scorpio that miquar's bringing forth: the focus on Scorpio as a sign of relationships in particular.
My sense is that understanding what that whole quadrant has in common (Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius - 7th, 8th and 9th house), and the difference between Libra and Scorpio, are major themes for anne3 to ponder as she stares into her natal chart.
And when I say ponder I mean, like, for years...
QUOTE]
anne3, just wondering as you have many libra planets in the 8th house, does that give yourself a Libran/scorpio type of charisma? Like charming in a way when you talk about deep stuff? (I have libra moon by the way, so I feel like a lot of the time my scorpioness is mixed with a libra energy).
miquar
Well-known member
Hi. Thanks for you kind words Birch Dragon.
Hi Lotus. The first six signs are personal (or individual) signs. They correspond to the spring and summer, when individual plants are thriving and the daylight hours are longer than the hours of darkness in - the northern hemisphere, at least, where astrology and civilisations underwent most of their development.
The last six signs are the social (or collective) signs. They correspond to the time when plants are surrendering their seed, and in many species their very substance, to the greater wholes of which they are part. Here the days are shorter than the nights in the northern hemisphere.
Rudhyar speaks of the 'Day Force' being stronger in the first six signs, and the 'Night Force' being stronger in the last six signs. They are equal in strength at the equinoxes.
In the first 3 signs, the Day Force is dominant and increasing in strength - these signs relish the cultivation of individuality as an end in itself.
In the next 3 signs, the Day Force is still dominant but is now decreasing in strength. Individuality is still prioritised, but there is a need to express the self in a way which is of value to others. Note that when the Sun moves through these signs (in the summer) the plants are generally still flourishing but are making their seeds.
In Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius the Night Force has become dominant and is increasing in strength throughout this quarter of the zodiacal cycle. Here, collectivism is relished as an end in itself. As with all the fixed signs, Scorpio represents a kind of crisis stage within its quarter.
And then collectivism is still dominant in the last three signs, but is now decreasing in strength. Society must be changed in order to facilitate new growth through the individualism of its members....
Hi Lotus. The first six signs are personal (or individual) signs. They correspond to the spring and summer, when individual plants are thriving and the daylight hours are longer than the hours of darkness in - the northern hemisphere, at least, where astrology and civilisations underwent most of their development.
The last six signs are the social (or collective) signs. They correspond to the time when plants are surrendering their seed, and in many species their very substance, to the greater wholes of which they are part. Here the days are shorter than the nights in the northern hemisphere.
Rudhyar speaks of the 'Day Force' being stronger in the first six signs, and the 'Night Force' being stronger in the last six signs. They are equal in strength at the equinoxes.
In the first 3 signs, the Day Force is dominant and increasing in strength - these signs relish the cultivation of individuality as an end in itself.
In the next 3 signs, the Day Force is still dominant but is now decreasing in strength. Individuality is still prioritised, but there is a need to express the self in a way which is of value to others. Note that when the Sun moves through these signs (in the summer) the plants are generally still flourishing but are making their seeds.
In Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius the Night Force has become dominant and is increasing in strength throughout this quarter of the zodiacal cycle. Here, collectivism is relished as an end in itself. As with all the fixed signs, Scorpio represents a kind of crisis stage within its quarter.
And then collectivism is still dominant in the last three signs, but is now decreasing in strength. Society must be changed in order to facilitate new growth through the individualism of its members....
Thank you for all your responses.
Lotus - It is difficult for me to tell if I am charismatic from a personal perspective; I don't think I am charismatic, I'm actually quite shy in person, but I seem to attract a lot of attention (much of it negative) so I was wondering if there is an air about scorpios (or heavy scorpio influence) that would bring about this attention. I don't deal well with attention, although I think I am friendly I don't like people who push boundaries or for people to retaliate if they misunderstand something (I have aqua rising so I think this causes people to misunderstand me). I don't know if what I am saying is making sense...but basically I see other people not being bothered by things some people do but if I do the same thing as them, I'll be singled out somehow. For example, if some people wear jeans to work on Fridays, and it is not really allowed but some do it anyway, if I wore the jeans too along with a few others, I would get called out for it and then everyone would get in trouble...there would be a big work announcement about not wearing jeans and then the other jean wearers would be upset with me although I did nothing more or less than what they did. This kind of stuff happens to me all the time. If I go to a wedding and wear a nice black dress, I'll get comments about black not being a wedding color, although others are wearing black too and they get hugs and kisses from the bride. Just stuff like this.
I am sure there is more to it regarding a chart, not just a scorpio influence, but I was just curious.
Lotus - It is difficult for me to tell if I am charismatic from a personal perspective; I don't think I am charismatic, I'm actually quite shy in person, but I seem to attract a lot of attention (much of it negative) so I was wondering if there is an air about scorpios (or heavy scorpio influence) that would bring about this attention. I don't deal well with attention, although I think I am friendly I don't like people who push boundaries or for people to retaliate if they misunderstand something (I have aqua rising so I think this causes people to misunderstand me). I don't know if what I am saying is making sense...but basically I see other people not being bothered by things some people do but if I do the same thing as them, I'll be singled out somehow. For example, if some people wear jeans to work on Fridays, and it is not really allowed but some do it anyway, if I wore the jeans too along with a few others, I would get called out for it and then everyone would get in trouble...there would be a big work announcement about not wearing jeans and then the other jean wearers would be upset with me although I did nothing more or less than what they did. This kind of stuff happens to me all the time. If I go to a wedding and wear a nice black dress, I'll get comments about black not being a wedding color, although others are wearing black too and they get hugs and kisses from the bride. Just stuff like this.
I am sure there is more to it regarding a chart, not just a scorpio influence, but I was just curious.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Drama? Charisma?
Elvis Presley, Capricorn Sun
More drama/charisma
Marilyn Monroe, Gemini Sun
Charismatic.....
Bill Clinton, Leo Sun
Even more drama/charisma....
Diana Princess of Wales, Cancer Sun
Clearly then, factors other than Sun sign require delineation
Every astrological sunsign 'has problems' of one variety or another
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Thank you for these interesting and useful links describing SIDEREAL VEDIC SCORPIO
Keep in mind that
contributors to this thread who have Scorpio Ascendant are TROPICAL Scorpio Ascendants
and
ayanamsa shows approximately 24 degree difference between Sidereal and Tropical
so
a TROPICAL SCORPIO ASCENDANT up to 24 DEGREES TROPICAL SCORPIO
is in fact LIBRA SIDEREAL VEDIC ASCENDANT
we need to clarify this issue for any astrology beginners reading this thread
so
here is a video explaining the differences between Sidereal measurement of one Solar Year
and
Tropical measurement of one Solar Year
EARTH'S MOTION AROUND THE SUN, NOT AS SIMPLE AS I THOUGHT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related
Anyone can easily check and find their Sidereal ASCENDANT
and compare it with their TROPICAL ASCENDANT
by going to the Extended Chart Selection Page on astro.com
and creating a Sidereal Chart using Lahiri ayanamsa
__________________
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AquariusLeoScorpio2589
Member
As a Scorpio rising I've been described as charismatic, but that may have something to do with my Leo moon sign or even my sun sign which is Aquarius. I'm not sure the reasons for Scorpios being charismatic this is the first time I've ever heard this hahaha.