Mars Quincunx Pluto

I have this ascpect in my natal chart and have tried to understand a bit more about the nature of a quincunx (compared to a square and opposition). How would you define it?

Cafe Astrology says the following:

You suffer by having a picture of just what needs to be done and how it is to be accomplished. This can cause you to be controlling and argumentative. When you feel the weight of the responsibilities that you have taken on or when you feel lonely and isolated, then, you are ripe for personal growth. Your desire, manner of expression, and the way you use energy will have to be changed - to be less compulsive, less forceful, so you are able to achieve greater accomplishment and more personal happiness.

Even though I don't like to admit it, I might come across as contolling and argumentative in situations where I experience that my self worth is threatended. I think it often has to do with not feeling appreciated or respected. But instead of showing sadness, vulnerability and weakness, I transform these feelings into a weapon and attack the people or the ideas presented (only with words ). I can also relate to the fear of not being able to bear the burden alone mentioned above. There also seems to be a demand for perfection involved, in myself, in others and in the situations I am presented to.

I'm afraid I understand why the word compulsive is used, because my reaction is too strong. Afterwards I don't really understand what triggered the anger, and I'm sad. Partly because I see why people don't want to be around a person like this. I take it too far. The control can be about not seeing my own limits. I found this to be the case with authority figures and my boyfriend (ex). As an employee I can not talk to my boss in a know-it-all way. Certain things should be diplomatic presented, other things are better left unsaid. As a girlfriend I must respect my lover's choices and his fundemental character. After all, this is just what I seek. And if I take the time, his ways could be fascinating and even better than mine. Maybe there are other factors in my natal chart that accounts for this anger and controlling tendencies as well...

I believe the quincunx partly is shown in the bewilderment I feel afterwards. Is there something in this hypothesis? I am quite new to astrology. What do you more experienced astrologers think? It would also be nice to read other people's experiences with this aspect, Pluto/Mars or other planets. I read a few articles on internet, but the quincunx is often placed among squares and oppositions, not treated separatly.

LOL i have this too. taurus mars in the 8th quincrux libra pluto in the 1st. oh trust me, i can get REALLY controlling in arguments and dogmatic about it, too. after the argument is over, i do feel that sense of being bewildered and asking myself, ummm did that just happen?!

i think the quincrux has a lot of difficulties melding 2 energies together and often tries to use one or the other more which further creates an imbalance and tension in the native... sorta like a lesser square aspect. i don't know what is to be done about it as far as how to resolve such aspect because i'm still trying to figure that out on my own. for awhile, i just gave into the reality that i am argumentative and i always have to be right no matter what and that's probably going to create some resentment from other people who cannot handle my quirk. i just shrug and not care. i don't suggest you do what i do, but i'm telling you that's what i normally do.

may28gemini said:

... after the argument is over, i do feel that sense of being bewildered and asking myself, ummm did that just happen?!

i think the quincrux has a lot of difficulties melding 2 energies together and often tries to use one or the other more which further creates an imbalance and tension in the native... sorta like a lesser square aspect.

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That is very interesting to hear! I think that I would respect other people with this aspect, as long as they left me alone (I have Mars in Aquarius, Pluto in Virgin). I understand what you say: This is me, take it or leave it! I like to change, though.

Because even though I think there actually are some nice qualities to this aspect (not afraid of authority figures, standing up for the rights of others...), I often seem to destroy for myself in the end. For example, I don't have a permanent position as a teacher and have to apply for my job every year. I shouldn't be surprised if they chose a less argumentative person to be member of staff. I might be liked among colleagues, but not necessarily by the people who have the authority to decide in the end... And I don't want to be a person that doesn't respect other people's integritiy. With my ex I often felt he was too much, too chaotic. But maybe it was I who was too controlling?

Is it a dangerous aspect? Or is it just difficult?

estrella polaris said:

I have this ascpect in my natal chart and have tried to understand a bit more about the nature of a quincunx (compared to a square and opposition). How would you define it?

Cafe Astrology says the following:

You suffer by having a picture of just what needs to be done and how it is to be accomplished. This can cause you to be controlling and argumentative. When you feel the weight of the responsibilities that you have taken on or when you feel lonely and isolated, then, you are ripe for personal growth. Your desire, manner of expression, and the way you use energy will have to be changed - to be less compulsive, less forceful, so you are able to achieve greater accomplishment and more personal happiness.


I'm afraid I understand why the word compulsive is used, .

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Hi, there.

I have a very wide conjunction between my Moon and Pluto. So I understand the bringing together of the two planets in an uncomfortable way, although my aspect is probably less disturbing than the quincunx [which is not necessarily for the greater good] and more set, since it is a conjunction and in fixed signs. In fact, I would say, that in it's most unconsious manifestion, the conjunction is the most compulsive of all the aspects between Moon and Pluto.

The reason the word compulsive is used is because there is a time, earlier in the experience of the aspect, when you have no control over the behaviour and are driven to repeat it, even though you may not want to, [but you probably DO want to ]. Early on there is no choice because you have to be right all the time. But as we mature and come to desire to be free to choose how we react and behave, there are a series of fundamental realizations that can let us stand down from the permanent Moon-Pluto posture, should we so desire it. I did, and it turned out to be a huge relief. It appears that you, too, are on the way to the freedom you may desire, since I see you are consciously bringing your attention the events and consequences that surround Moon-Pluto in your life. That is truly a first very big step.

I am wishing you well.

IleneK said:

The reason the word compulsive is used is because there is a time, earlier in the experience of the aspect, when you have no control over the behaviour and are driven to repeat it, even though you may not want to, [but you probably DO want to ]. Early on there is no choice because you have to be right all the time. But as we mature and come to desire to be free to choose how we react and behave, there are a series of fundamental realizations that can let us stand down from the permanent Moon-Pluto posture, should we so desire it

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Yes, this is a very precise description! I am also happy to read that you have managed to free yourself from this behaviour and feel better as a result.

Still, something that has puzzled me is that this argumentative style is something I have developed in later years (I am 44). Maybe because I was a bit shy when I was young, I didn't expose this trait as much? Now I seem to believe that I have to make up for this vagueness present my views and go into battles. Also, in working life you have to relate to more people of with different views and values, maybe.

I hope that you are right, that being conscious of the behaviour and WANTING to change eventually can LEAD to change. But you describe well the wanting and not wanting.

estrella polaris said:

Yes, this is a very precise description! I am also happy to read that you have managed to free yourself from this behaviour and feel better as a result.

Still, something that has puzzled me is that this argumentative style is something I have developed in later years (I am 44). Maybe because I was a bit shy when I was young, I didn't expose this trait as much? Now I seem to believe that I have to make up for this vagueness present my views and go into battles. Also, in working life you have to relate to more people of with different views and values, maybe.

I hope that you are right, that being conscious of the behaviour and WANTING to change eventually can LEAD to change. But you describe well the wanting and not wanting.

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There could be an important transit like the Uranus opposition that you completed, or from some other outer planet, or Saturn, that is triggering the behaviour. And it is interesting that you describe needing to go into battle over the "vagueness present in [your] views." I think that is very useful information, and, yes, this kind of keen observation, coupled with genuine desire to be able to choose when you bring out your big guns is the path to the freedom you desire.

For the job I had when I finally "awoke," part of what I did was defend [argue] value to a hearings panel. After a few seasons of that, I realized that if I wanted to stay at that job and not kill myself with a stroke, heart attack, etc, I was going to have to find another way to interact with the parties contesting the values. And I did, by learning to listen to their argument in its entirety, with no interruptions on my behalf and even no thinking about my argument while they were talking. Just fully present in the moment, listening.

And the crazy thing about it, first, was that it was easy. But more importantly, I liked the listening! And this was from someone who was really accustomed to throwing weight around, but with kid gloves on. I have Mars conjuncting Moon-Pluto, too, all in the 12th, so there was a fair degree of deft and powerful manipulation, even if it was largely unconscious. But perhaps most importantly, letting my opponents have a full and uninterrupted hearing took all of the fight out of them! They were contented to a large extent by just being heard. I almost always prevailed, and, if not, a fair and equitable solution was easy to achieve. It never occurred to me that this could be the result.

So, I offer this to you as a real hope that you can develop the freedom to choose your actions in the challenges you face daily in your workplace. I am truly wishing you well in this undertaking and would be interested for you to post your experiences or PM me, should you wish to.

Ilene, thank you for sharing your personal experiences. It is very inspiring to hear concrete examples. I can relate to the action taken and why it worked. I had to smile when I read that you actually liked listening as well. We often seem to think that the measures taken have to be hard and painful.

Finally I have to say that my first encounter with this astrology site has been very positive. The comments from you and other members (to my other post as well) has been encouraging. People actually take the time to read and are willing to investigate something together.

estrella polaris said:

That is very interesting to hear! I think that I would respect other people with this aspect, as long as they left me alone (I have Mars in Aquarius, Pluto in Virgin). I understand what you say: This is me, take it or leave it! I like to change, though.

Because even though I think there actually are some nice qualities to this aspect (not afraid of authority figures, standing up for the rights of others...), I often seem to destroy for myself in the end. For example, I don't have a permanent position as a teacher and have to apply for my job every year. I shouldn't be surprised if they chose a less argumentative person to be member of staff. I might be liked among colleagues, but not necessarily by the people who have the authority to decide in the end... And I don't want to be a person that doesn't respect other people's integritiy. With my ex I often felt he was too much, too chaotic. But maybe it was I who was too controlling?

Is it a dangerous aspect? Or is it just difficult?

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i have an observation... i've met a lot of people with mars-pluto, including my family members. to me, it seems as if mars conj pluto are cooperative with authority and actually end up being authority figures. mars square pluto seem to be people who have issues melding their assertiveness externally and have difficulty owning up to own issues with power. mars opp pluto people tend to face a lot of external difficulties with authority... such as getting in trouble with the law a lot, getting busted for wrongdoing, maybe even getting blamed for stuff they're not totally guilty of- it's like blatant disrespect for authority. mars trine pluto seem to work quite well to uphold and maintain the status quo of power, they themselves seem to be favored as someone trustworthy of power. and then there's the mars quincrux people like you and i, we're loose cannons and we disrespect authority in an underlining way... we are not overt about it and most likely we're not even totally conscious of being disrespectful. i think our energies of not going along with whatever established authority is in placed, it causes authority figures to be weary of us because we are that unpredictable.

i also have mars opposition uranus along with mars quincrux pluto. authority figures automatically smell my rebelliousness from miles away. i literally can walk into a room, without knowing who's who and the ones that snarl at me are those who are in charge (usually not by merit but by some shady method).

Wow!! I can relate to so much being described by all of you concerning this aspect. My venus & mars in pisces (5th) are quincunx pluto in libra (11th). I can completely fly off the handle and was previously diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, however I think for the most part I control myself quite well these days. I also have underlying (medicated) OCD, and when left unchecked this too generates a great deal of impulsivity/compulsivity in my behavior in addition to intrusively obsessive thoughts (merc square pluto).

I totally feel you both on the 'taking things too far' front and then when it has all blown over instantly wondering what the hell just happened. It's scary! I have noticed that for me problems with this aspect arise primarily in love relationships, which I assume is the linkage to venus. I can really lash out at the object of my affection

maybe you can use the inconjunct to "violently" apply to the arts (i remember your venus-mars is in 5th). you could write and act out a play, or paint a scene, take snapshots of other stuff that pi$$ you off, etc.

i use my inconjunct to rant (mars in 8th) to people a small audience (my blog), people i'm really close to, and when i was married, to my spouse. everyone seemed to think i'm being super funny (mars trine jupiter) when in actuality, steam is coming out of my ears. oh well, at least it works...

may28gemini said:

maybe you can use the inconjunct to "violently" apply to the arts (i remember your venus-mars is in 5th). you could write and act out a play, or paint a scene, take snapshots of other stuff that pi$$ you off, etc.

i use my inconjunct to rant (mars in 8th) to people a small audience (my blog), people i'm really close to, and when i was married, to my spouse. everyone seemed to think i'm being super funny (mars trine jupiter) when in actuality, steam is coming out of my ears. oh well, at least it works...

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OOOh yes I have no doubt you would be superbly theatrical/entertaining. You and your leo must have been one hell of a double act together My mother is also really funny when she's angry (except when it's at me); but yeah, she comes out with pretty hilarious lines at times. Certainly sounds like you have found yourself a cathartic release in your mini stand up show rants

I agree that I need to take better advantage of that inner creative daimon - writing is often a good outlet for this in me, and I used to like drawing in charcoal or pencil, which I should get back into. I find now that I often cook when I'm upset (I love to cook), and it's usually baking when I'm angry (feels good to punch the dough). However I prefer to infuse my food-spawn with love, so I tend to feel guilty about serving my loved ones pies and cookies laced with enmity.

sequestra said:

However I prefer to infuse my food-spawn with love, so I tend to feel guilty about serving my loved ones pies and cookies laced with enmity.

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Mmm, I want baked enmity.

On a related note, I'm curious to know if the quincunxes being discussed are applying to opposition or separating from opposition. To determine this, identify the faster-moving planet in the aspect and move it forward to the next major hard aspect: will it be an opposition or a square (intentionally skipped the trine)?

Hi,

stainedBlue said:

On a related note, I'm curious to know if the quincunxes being discussed are applying to opposition or separating from opposition. To determine this, identify the faster-moving planet in the aspect and move it forward to the next major aspect: will it be an opposition or a square?

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It effects in both cases: applying and separating. In the first one more, needless to say.

The problem with Mars in an aspect to any one of the outers, or Saturn is that Mars feels threatened. Mars is ego (next only to the Sun, but dangerous) and self-will. Mars likes to be 'on the loose', and in control of things. It does not like being 'controlled', or challenged, which is exactly what the outer planets (Ura, Nep and Plu) do, and also Sat. With Ura and Plu (both themselves being demolishing type of energies), Mars becomes even more dangerous.

People with such aspects easily feel threatened. With Ura in play, their ego (Mars) feels threatened in respect to freedom or having their own way (Ura). The result usually is: rebelliousness of a harmful kind. People with this aspect should take special care as to falls/ sudden accidents resulting out of impulsiveness/ carelessness/ haste. Such people may also have a tendency towards perverseness. If Mars should be in a fire sign (esp Aries and Leo), or Scorpio, there can be an uncontrollable sexual urge.

With Pluto and Mars in aspect, the ego (Mars) of the person feels challenged in respect to losing control (Pluto). This can result in violent activity of some sort. Even if just through violent (abusive/harsh) language. If there is too much of Pluto or Sco influence in the chart, and alot of beneficiary and benevolent (Jup/ Ven) and/or Piscean/Cancer/Libra influence not there to balance it out, demolition or physical violence of some sort maybe the result.

With Nep and Sat, the result is of a different kind. Nep is of a different nature. Neptune pacifies/ simmers down Mars. Mars feels like not being able to get a handle on its own energy. Mars here too feels challenged, but more in the hindered and latent sense, like not being able to let out its entire 'worth' (energy).

With Saturn-Mars, Mars is usually kept in check for as long as Sat makes it. This is more like Mars in one of the earth signs (esp Tau or Cap) However, as soon as this aspect gets triggered through a transit, it may lash out violently, as all that pent-up (Sat) energy (Mars) breaks loose.

So, with Mars sq./quincunx Plu its usually the feeling of someone demolishing, or violently threatening (Plu) our ego.

Whenever Mars is rough in a chart, the only way out is physical activity of some sort (sports/ travel/ yoga....). When people don't let that Mars energy out, esp if it is challenged by Ura or Plu, invariably health will be affected in some manner.


AQ7

thank you so much for that vivid explanation!!

my taurus mars touches all the outer planets, including saturn. it's very true!! my mars trine saturn does keep everything in check... i'm really calm and pleasant on nearly all accounts. however, i do easily feel threatened and quick to rebel when i think my freedom is going to be destroyed (mars opp uranus). i think having taurus mars without aspecting the outer planets would be fine because taurus itself would help contain mars pretty well. however having taurus mars inconjunct pluto and touching outer planets can create a huge ball of energy that's ready to explode...

aquarius7000 said:

It effects in both cases: applying and separating. In the first one more, needless to say.

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I think my question may have been misunderstood. I'm wanting to know whether the next aspect to be made by the faster moving planet (in this case Mars) between the two planets in the quincunx aspect everyone in this thread is describing will be an opposition or a trine. I'm not interested in the trine though, which is why I asked about the square that would be made after it.

sequestra said:

OOOh yes I have no doubt you would be superbly theatrical/entertaining. You and your leo must have been one hell of a double act together My mother is also really funny when she's angry (except when it's at me); but yeah, she comes out with pretty hilarious lines at times. Certainly sounds like you have found yourself a cathartic release in your mini stand up show rants

I agree that I need to take better advantage of that inner creative daimon - writing is often a good outlet for this in me, and I used to like drawing in charcoal or pencil, which I should get back into. I find now that I often cook when I'm upset (I love to cook), and it's usually baking when I'm angry (feels good to punch the dough). However I prefer to infuse my food-spawn with love, so I tend to feel guilty about serving my loved ones pies and cookies laced with enmity.

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maybe you can bake cookies that are shaped like guns, knives, hammer, weapons. they can be called "delicious death" heh heh!

actually my ex leo wasn't theatrical at all. he use to watch me do my little plays and laugh at them. he did go along with me to do photography projects. despite his technical mind, he was quite an artist. he was an architect and he designed houses with me in mind.

lately, i've used my inconjunct and applied it at the gym, particularly swimming and running. taurus mars people are pretty athletic... only when we're done with all that workout, we like to lounge a little too much. heh. we can still be lazy!

may28gemini said:

maybe you can bake cookies that are shaped like guns, knives, hammer, weapons. they can be called "delicious death" heh heh!

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Very appropriate for mars inconjunct pluto. Here:



Though these kind of look like something else (also appropriate to mars inconjunct pluto).

Yes I think I will need to order some

This aspect is hmmm....nothing makes me laugh more than seeing supposedly strong bullies running away when they see what confrontation actually looks like. Most people find my outbursts amusing though. Unless I'm MAD at YOU.

Lol I have Mars inconjunct Pluto as well, and Honey lemme Tell YA YOU SPELLED IT OUT!!! LOL!! ARIES MARS SCORPIO PLUTO 😉😉😂

The traditional wisdom is that it makes a difference whether the faster planet is applying to the inconjunct or separating. the 6th house inconjunct is said to affect one physically and in all 6th house ways....the 8th house inconjunct is said to affect one psychologically and mentally/emotionally - with intensity.

HOwever: I believe the more important (or at at equally important ) factor would be how many planets are involved in the particular inconjunct and what other aspects are made.
LIN