Worried about my Child. Learning disability?

My almost-9-yr-old has always had much trouble with learning to read. Math is a bit stronger. She liked science but now is waning in interest there too. She's not very disciplined when it comes to schoolwork, though she is a Virgo. She gets very frustrated and critical of herself and wants everything to be perfect or she won't try at all and even zone-out. (Ok, now I see a fledgling Virgo emerging, yes?)

This past year, she has been in special education 30 mins or so a day for reading. (I don't think this is enough). I've met with all her teachers and she's been assessed by a Speech Pathologist to understand her learning difficulty. Her diagnosis was - "It's a mystery to me". She says she sees about 1 child per year like mine who is in the 96th percentile ABOVE in certain reading and comprehension strengths and at the same, on some of the tasks, she scores about in the 10th percentile. She has massive strengths and weaknesses that are not in any pattern. We cannot figure this out.

The next step is to be assessed by an education psychologist.

I am so perplexed, so are the experts, that I am turning to her natal chart to see if anyone can help me with the reason.

Thank you so much for your time.



[poster gave no astrological interpretation so moved to Greenhorns Lounge - Moderator]

I'm quite a beginner, and I can't make a sense of it, but I see some themes that might make a sense to a veteran. So, I'm going to use this as an opportunity to sharpen my skills.

At least some things stands out to me:
- Sun, Moon, Chiron, Mars (classical chart ruler), and Pluto (modern chart ruler) are in mostly hard aspects.
- The six planet series of grand trines in air signs.
- A general lack of water. (only Asc and North Node)
- East hemisphere focus.

I'm mostly suspicious of the Mars and the Pluto-Chiron conjunction and their hard aspects. What's really odd is the lack of hard aspects to Mercury.

Hmm, north node in Cancer. Afflicted fire planets in fire signs in first house and on midheaven. You say that she gets frustrated, but does she has a channel for venting her frustration?

CJN said:

I'm quite a beginner, and I can't make a sense of it, but I see some themes that might make a sense to a veteran. So, I'm going to use this as an opportunity to sharpen my skills.

At least some things stands out to me:
- Sun, Moon, Chiron, Mars (classical chart ruler), and Pluto (modern chart ruler) are in mostly hard aspects.
- The six planet series of grand trines in air signs.
- A general lack of water. (only Asc and North Node)
- East hemisphere focus.

I'm mostly suspicious of the Mars and the Pluto-Chiron conjunction and their hard aspects. What's really odd is the lack of hard aspects to Mercury.

Hmm, north node in Cancer. Afflicted fire planets in fire signs in first house and on midheaven. You say that she gets frustrated, but does she has a channel for venting her frustration?

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Hi CJN,

Thank you for taking a shot at it. I don't understand what the points you made translate to in layman's terms (I'm new at astro too..)

You asked me about the frustration, if she has a venting outlet - I would say not really, except emotionally. I empathize, let her yell and be mad, and then I calm her down and talk later and try to help.

I'm no expert, either, but your daughter seems to have an emphasis upon trine aspects, which are harmonious aspects that may need the support of "harder" aspects such as the square and the opposition to kick the trines out of stasis. Common astrological literature describes trines as conferring natural talents--talents at which an individual does not have to work hard to express, so the individual may not work to develop these talents further. Please do not interpret this the wrong way; I am not saying your daughter is lazy! Only that the trines seem to indicate those abilities which she possesses, as well as her tendency to become frustrated if she encounters difficulty. The perfectionism may have a different source, however.

My mother works with children who have learning disabilities, although she does not diagnose. Therefore, you have my heartfelt compassion. I wish I could "see" the problem so you may work with professional educators to find a solution.

I agree with CJN that the first house Pluto/Chiron conjunction tightly opposed Jupiter looks suspicious--and your daughter's Virgo Sun is caught in the "crossfire," so to speak, although the aspect is separating (decreasing in energy) and does not have a particularly tight orb. Here's an article about the Chiron and Pluto Conjunction; it was written in December 1999 about this transit under which your daughter was born.

Arian Maverick

accidental double-post.

Arian Maverick said:

I'm no expert, either, but your daughter seems to have an emphasis upon trine aspects, which are harmonious aspects that may need the support of "harder" aspects such as the square and the opposition to kick the trines out of stasis. Common astrological literature describes trines as conferring natural talents--talents at which an individual does not have to work hard to express, so the individual may not work to develop these talents further. Please do not interpret this the wrong way; I am not saying your daughter is lazy! Only that the trines seem to indicate those abilities which she possesses, as well as her tendency to become frustrated if she encounters difficulty. The perfectionism may have a different source, however.

My mother works with children who have learning disabilities, although she does not diagnose. Therefore, you have my heartfelt compassion. I wish I could "see" the problem so you may work with professional educators to find a solution.

I agree with CJN that the first house Pluto/Chiron conjunction tightly opposed Jupiter looks suspicious--and your daughter's Virgo Sun is caught in the "crossfire," so to speak, although the aspect is separating (decreasing in energy) and does not have a particularly tight orb. Here's an article about the Chiron and Pluto Conjunction; it was written in December 1999 about this transit under which your daughter was born.

Arian Maverick

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My goodness, you both have narrowed down in 1 day more quickly than 4 professionals at her school could do in two years of assessing this problem.

Arian, thank you so much for the link, the details and the heartfelt wishes. I am going to read this right now.

Also Arian, you were discussing the trines, yes, I - and everyone else sees major talents in all the arts with my daughter. Her reading grade in school is usually a "C" and though it may not be horrendous, I know this child is very mature, analytical, perceptive since she was a baby. She would watch people's actions and focus on them intently. I am eager to go read that link!

Thank you.

Okay, hardly an expert myself, but here are some thoughts:


1- she's got trines between 3rd house Uranus and Neptune in Aquarius (3rd house being the realm of basic education) and Venus and Mercury in 11th house. There's some emphasis here in group activities, since Aquarius and 11th house are connected with groups.

Venus in 11th trining Uranus is a big indication that she needs a warm group of children working and studying together in order to keep her interest (siblings too). A chart heavy in 3rd, 7th and 11th house is not the chart of a loner, and also, she might react badly to the competitions that sometimes are imposed to children at school (maybe with excessive aggressiveness, since her Mars in Leo is in opposition to Uranus). I think the best thing is to have an environment with emphasis in equality, and not competition, because she can take competition too far..... Alternative education, maybe, where people focus on the possibilities of a group, and not of the student alone.

Also, Mercury, Saturn and Neptune in a grand air trine may be suggesting strong musical ability. Since they are in the 3rd, 7th and 11th, I'd say a musical group of some kind could be good for her.

Despite such emphasis in group and collectivity, her chart has a strong dichotomy: it shows she needs to be in a group as much as she needs to stand out from it. Her Mars in Leo in Midheaven, widely opposed by Uranus and squared by Saturn in 7th shows that she feels the urge to shine, to stand out. The point is reaching balance. Tone down this Mars by putting her in a warm community. And giving her physical activities to blow off the steam of this strong Mars might help too.

Wishing the best here for you and your family.

Your daughter has Capricorn on the cusp of her 3rd house, which is the learning mind, and Saturn the ruler is in Gemini. That is a double whammy.So it seems that it takes a longer time for her to mentally process things successfully . Saturn does not have any exact, or even tight afflictions. It does widely oppose chiron/pluto in the 1st, and widely squares mars /mc. But it is nicely trined and supported. So eventual success seems assured.
In some strange way, it seems she does not 'want' to do what she is being taught. It seems that once she decides to accept these strange 'rules' , and decides to incorporate them, then she will make more progress. Her Mars in Leo exactly conjunct her MC, and opposing Uranus, has nothing to really reign it in. She may be rather independant/willful at times, and her one way of controlling things, and staying' in charge', is to be uncooperative about these Saturnian type school things. She is naturally very competitive, and very proud, so having this difficulty is emotionally hard for her to accept. So she may be 'blocking' or working against herself in some ways out of frustration.

Her mercury in the 11th in Libra is very social, and does it's best when surrounded by like minded, good friends. Has being in Special Ed for reading been worrisome, or embarrassing in any way for her? Sometimes a Saturn trine can delay before it helps, especially if mercury shuts down because of emotional reactions.

Her mercury is at the midpoint of Saturn/Neptune. It is getting mixed messages. A lot of her mental processes work intuitively, and artistically, and easily, from the Neptunian side of the grand trine, and from her own 3rd house. The Saturnian side of the grand trine, coming from the 7th, asks her to be more grounded, learn some hard and fast rules, and these things are the most troublesome for her perhaps. It goes against the Neptunian way she most easily incorporates knowledge.

One thing that seems important is that her teachers are sensitive to her own sensitivity. Your daughter is very intelligent, and very very perceptive. She picks up on things in her own unique way, and hopefully someone can help her continue to learn, without making her feel self conscious or slow, because she is not. She will eventually catch up to her classmates, but reading words may not ever be her thing. She may learn better by listening or watching or assessing feelings, and so she will find her way.

SagiCap said:

Hi CJN,

Thank you for taking a shot at it. I don't understand what the points you made translate to in layman's terms (I'm new at astro too..)

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I'll try to do my best to explain, although I'm bad at it.
- East hemisphere focus = focus on freedom and individual choice.
- Arian Maverick explained the trines better than I.
- Water element= feeling, emotions, especially feminine emotions (to be compared to the passionate, masculine fire)
- North node is usually considered to indicate the lesson we are supposed to learn. Cancer is a water sign. (see above)
- Sun, Moon, Ascendant and chart ruler (=ascendant sign ruler) are usually considered to be the most important factors in the chart.

When I looked at the essential dignities of the chart I notice that Sun is afflicted (peregrine), Moon is afflicted (detriment), Mercury is afflicted (peregrine), and Jupiter is partially afflicted (detriment, but in own term).
(Venus is in own sign and own term so it's strong, Saturn is in own triplicity, and Mars in own face)

What really matters here is Sun, Moon and Mercury. Sun and Moon in serious Virgo and Capricorn gives me the message that all work and no play makes Jill a dull girl. Afflicted Mercury should speak for itself.

It seems to me that one of the best things you can do is to find a way for her to release frustration and get in touch with her emotions. Hmm, it seems that the north node is in the ninth house, maybe somekind of break from routine would do her some good?

I'm sure that there are others on this board who can give you better help than this.

RockFish said:

Okay, hardly an expert myself, but here are some thoughts:


1- she's got trines between 3rd house Uranus and Neptune in Aquarius (3rd house being the realm of basic education) and Venus and Mercury in 11th house. There's some emphasis here in group activities, since Aquarius and 11th house are connected with groups.

Venus in 11th trining Uranus is a big indication that she needs a warm group of children working and studying together in order to keep her interest (siblings too). A chart heavy in 3rd, 7th and 11th house is not the chart of a loner, and also, she might react badly to the competitions that sometimes are imposed to children at school (maybe with excessive aggressiveness, since her Mars in Leo is in opposition to Uranus). I think the best thing is to have an environment with emphasis in equality, and not competition, because she can take competition too far..... Alternative education, maybe, where people focus on the possibilities of a group, and not of the student alone.

Also, Mercury, Saturn and Neptune in a grand air trine may be suggesting strong musical ability. Since they are in the 3rd, 7th and 11th, I'd say a musical group of some kind could be good for her.

Despite such emphasis in group and collectivity, her chart has a strong dichotomy: it shows she needs to be in a group as much as she needs to stand out from it. Her Mars in Leo in Midheaven, widely opposed by Uranus and squared by Saturn in 7th shows that she feels the urge to shine, to stand out. The point is reaching balance. Tone down this Mars by putting her in a warm community. And giving her physical activities to blow off the steam of this strong Mars might help too.

Wishing the best here for you and your family.

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What an interesting way of seeing it. Group learning and inclusiveness instead... I may try a test class - put her in some interesting class afterschool to see if she gains from it.

Re: musical ability. She made me buy her a guitar at age 8 - she sings constantly all day and dances around the house. VERY expressive and it's almost innate. (She also can watch a comedy show and mimic it word for word with amazing acting ability, feeling and timing.) You would think she would channel the memory for words into some language arts learning, but I haven't seen it yet.

Thanks so much for this and the wonderful practical advice. I know feel there is great hope attainable.

CJN said:

It seems to me that one of the best things you can do is to find a way for her to release frustration and get in touch with her emotions. Hmm, it seems that the north node is in the ninth house, maybe some kind of break from routine would do her some good?

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You explained it wonderfully.

This is the part quoted above that I'm not seeing, because while my ex and I are divorced, she lives with me - I am the typical Sag Mother. I take her on new adventures constantly and encourage a lot of expression. Perhaps you mean with schooling. That I am beginning to see.

Thanks so much for the explanations.

katydid said:

In some strange way, it seems she does not 'want' to do what she is being taught.

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Katydid - while your whole post fascinated me, the point above seemed to hit it right on the head. It's like she has already identified what she wants to do (acting/singing/music) that she has no desire to do anything else.

She just told me today, "I hate reading, good thing it's a High School Musical book, I already saw the movie." She was just reading so she could tell her Dad she's been reading in the summer if he asks.

Hi Sagi,

Her Mars suggests strong physical energy indeed, precisely how you described her, expressive and all.

She's got Midheaven in Leo which shows that she'll probably want to be recognized by her performing skills. Since Mars is there (and rules her 6th house of daily work too), it suggests strong physical performance. Mars on angles is strong in athletes' charts (or soldiers), but, since hers is in Leo and since you already told me of her interest in music, I'd suggest a dance class afterschool, modern dance, something vigorous.

Hugs!

RockFish said:

Hi Sagi,

Her Mars suggests strong physical energy indeed, precisely how you described her, expressive and all.

She's got Midheaven in Leo which shows that she'll probably want to be recognized by her performing skills. Since Mars is there (and rules her 6th house of daily work too), it suggests strong physical performance. Mars on angles is strong in athletes' charts (or soldiers), but, since hers is in Leo and since you already told me of her interest in music, I'd suggest a dance class afterschool, modern dance, something vigorous.

Hugs!

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She used to take ballet, but nothing where we live now offers it. But jazz/tap/hip hop is what she currently wants me to put her in. So great that you can see this. WOW! I'm amazed.

SagiCap, you have received some very wise and insightful help here, and I cannot add much more.

Her Uranus in the 3rd house (of basic learning) in Aquarius may be somehow adding to the clash of energies created by a Saturn-ruled 3rd house, with natal Saturn in Gemini. It's a bit like information-overload, or perhaps sensory-overload for her. I agree with others who have said that she has her own way of learning and of processing things, and that being in any way pushed (even encouraged nicely!!) to learn in a way which makes no sense to her will get her hackles up.

I know many people with Uranus in the 3rd house who learn in `other' ways, generally in a way which us mere mortals cannot follow, as it tends to be very Urananian, using a look-at-it-and-know-instantly method. (I am reminded of the boy in my primary school class in the 50's who always got the right answers to maths problems, but could not show any working. He also used to trip over his own feet in the schoolyard - obviously an undiagnosed dyslexic.)
My youngest brother has Uranus in the 3rd, is significantly dyslexic, but can perform complex mathematical calculations in his head. Having said that, he would not be able to show how he does this using pen and paper. Formal schooling was hell for him (he's now in his early 50's).

Her natal Uranus is also in wide opposition to her Mars, so her physical activities provide her with outlets for any frustration she experiences.

Schools generally do not cater terribly well for `different' learners, but they generally are willing to try anything to help individual children.

Perhaps also your daughter does not see the point in reading something she's not interested in. She'll probably gather information quite well if the subject-matter is of interest to her.

R4VEN said:

SagiCap, you have received some very wise and insightful help here, and I cannot add much more.

Her Uranus in the 3rd house (of basic learning) in Aquarius may be somehow adding to the clash of energies created by a Saturn-ruled 3rd house, with natal Saturn in Gemini. It's a bit like information-overload, or perhaps sensory-overload for her. I agree with others who have said that she has her own way of learning and of processing things, and that being in any way pushed (even encouraged nicely!!) to learn in a way which makes no sense to her will get her hackles up.

I know many people with Uranus in the 3rd house who learn in `other' ways, generally in a way which us mere mortals cannot follow, as it tends to be very Urananian, using a look-at-it-and-know-instantly method. (I am reminded of the boy in my primary school class in the 50's who always got the right answers to maths problems, but could not show any working. He also used to trip over his own feet in the schoolyard - obviously an undiagnosed dyslexic.)
My youngest brother has Uranus in the 3rd, is significantly dyslexic, but can perform complex mathematical calculations in his head. Having said that, he would not be able to show how he does this using pen and paper. Formal schooling was hell for him (he's now in his early 50's).

Her natal Uranus is also in wide opposition to her Mars, so her physical activities provide her with outlets for any frustration she experiences.

Schools generally do not cater terribly well for `different' learners, but they generally are willing to try anything to help individual children.

Perhaps also your daughter does not see the point in reading something she's not interested in. She'll probably gather information quite well if the subject-matter is of interest to her.

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You've explained very well what I'm seeing in her, Raven, thank you for the comments.

SagiCap, another thing I thought of in relation to your daughter and her particular learning style is that a words-based education is probably not all that suitable for her at present.

I suspect your daughter is one of those kids who learns best by experiencing at first hand. I used to teach basic mathematics to women, many of whom had had awful experiences in high school of learning fractions, decimals, algebra, etc. I'd always go back to basics, and get them doing things with buckets of water and measuring jugs, kitchen scales and blocks of wood, coloured counters, etc, etc. This invariably took the stress of actually writing and calculating formally out of the mix.

It will probably be important that she have words, pages, books about things which interest her. One of my sons barely read a thing until he got to age 13 and decided he wanted to read One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest, by Ken Kesey. He took months to finish it, but that was 22 years ago, he hasn't stopped reading since!! All he needed was to see that there was a point to reading.

speaking classicaly the 9th house is rulled buy the moon, in her 3rd communcations ruled by saturn. saturn in 8th in gemini with jupiter.

you see that her education house the 9th, ruler is in the third so typicaly she does respond emotionaly to education... she needs to feel a desire and want to do it before she even can, futher supported by saturn jupiter in the 8th, representing a big control, or a big fear that something or someone is going to be taken from her if she displays a level of inteligence.

inspired maybe early on by a death of an elder male guidance figure, or lack of having a male figure.
I was labled emotionaly mentaly handicaped, and learning disabled.

Couldn't read till 4th grade? horrible in math, Maybe shes gifted and just needs her emotions pulled on in order to be driven, maybe she doesn't feel secure enough in school emotionaly to express her self.

don't buy their school psychology ********. especialy then the person says they don't know. I got miss diagnosed and had a horrible time all through school because of it. And in highschool, it got a little better, because they just let me do my work first turn it in and then go to sleep for the rest of the class, and i always got the best grade.

[deleted insulting remark - Moderator]

Niplan said:

speaking classicaly the 9th house is rulled buy the moon, in her 3rd communcations ruled by saturn. saturn in 8th in gemini with jupiter.

you see that her education house the 9th, ruler is in the third so typicaly she does respond emotionaly to education... she needs to feel a desire and want to do it before she even can, futher supported by saturn jupiter in the 8th, representing a big control, or a big fear that something or someone is going to be taken from her if she displays a level of inteligence.

inspired maybe early on by a death of an elder male guidance figure, or lack of having a male figure.
I was labled emotionaly mentaly handicaped, and learning disabled.

Couldn't read till 4th grade? horrible in math, Maybe shes gifted and just needs her emotions pulled on in order to be driven, maybe she doesn't feel secure enough in school emotionaly to express her self.

don't buy their school psychology ********. especialy then the person says they don't know. I got miss diagnosed and had a horrible time all through school because of it. And in highschool, it got a little better, because they just let me do my work first turn it in and then go to sleep for the rest of the class, and i always got the best grade.

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Niplan, thank you so much for sharing this with me. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. It's awful. I really appreciate it, I have a lot of avenues to explore now, thanks to you.

Haven't read everyone's responses...this is what I "felt" when I glimpsed at the chart.

This is not going to be a long term detriment to your daughter's educational growth. Looking at the bigger picture she will be just fine. Daydreaming in school is taking priority. Neptune and Uranus in her 3rd (house of grade school learning) support this erratic, foggy "mystery"...start her in MUSIC to strengthen her comprehension skills...it sounds bizarre, but this is why it works.