Is the rumor true - a few questions

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
I was reading an example of Lily's where they asked a question regarding history, and in it say "Neptune is in the 3rd house so the rumor is clearly false" - that makes sense.

I'm indecisive and confused about the 3H ruler Saturn making it "false", or should I look to the conclusive 4H ruled by Pisces... however, I like traditional astrology better which means I'd note Jupiter, not Neptune. Using those factors would you read the rumor as true or false? Jupiter is usually associated with honesty / ethics. AND I'm not sure if Jupiter in my 1st house means I'll find the answer soon or if there's other mitigating factors.

Moon is in an angular house, in Mars' detriment and the only applying aspect is to the ASC. If Moon is in detriment, would that make the rumor definitively false?

I posted the chart just for visual sake. Help on the above questions would be appreciated..
 

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Chrysalis

Well-known member
You've got L7/mercury (the rumor has come from another person), in its fall, retrograde, conjoined neptune, and out of sect. So mercury is pretty much in bad shape.

I'd say the rumor is false.

Mercury is separating from a sextile with saturn in the 2rd house, what was the rumor to do with ? Money/possessions/debts/money owed/inheritance ?
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
I think it's false too, but was still wondering about if 3H ruler Saturn would indicate it's false or not following Lily's method in the example :)
 

Dirius

Well-known member
I was reading an example of Lily's where they asked a question regarding history, and in it say "Neptune is in the 3rd house so the rumor is clearly false" - that makes sense.

I'm indecisive and confused about the 3H ruler Saturn making it "false", or should I look to the conclusive 4H ruled by Pisces... however, I like traditional astrology better which means I'd note Jupiter, not Neptune. Using those factors would you read the rumor as true or false? Jupiter is usually associated with honesty / ethics. AND I'm not sure if Jupiter in my 1st house means I'll find the answer soon or if there's other mitigating factors.

Moon is in an angular house, in Mars' detriment and the only applying aspect is to the ASC. If Moon is in detriment, would that make the rumor definitively false?

I posted the chart just for visual sake. Help on the above questions would be appreciated..

William Lilly lived in the 17th century, and Neptune wasn't discovered until the 18th century. So whatever you read, wasn't by William Lilly. It may have been Zadkiel's "Introduction to Astrology", which is a compilation of techniques derived from Lilly. But again, William Lilly wasn't even aware of the existance of the outer planets.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I was reading an example of Lily's
where they asked a question regarding history, and
in it say

"Neptune is in the 3rd house so the rumor is clearly false"
- that makes sense.
would have made no sense to Lilly - Lilly would have been puzzled :smile:



because as Dirius mentions
William Lilly lived in the 17th century,
and
Neptune wasn't discovered until the 18th century.
So whatever you read, wasn't by William Lilly.

It may have been Zadkiel's "Introduction to Astrology", which is a compilation
of techniques derived from Lilly.
But again, William Lilly wasn't even aware of the existance of the outer planets.
so those who follow William Lilly methods do not use outer planets
I'm indecisive and confused about the 3H ruler Saturn making it "false",
or should I look to the conclusive 4H ruled by Pisces...
consider the entirety of the chart
however, I like traditional astrology better
which means I'd note Jupiter, not Neptune.
As Dirius states, William Lilly did not know of the existence of the outers
so if you are using William Lilly methods
makes sense to note the seven visible planets, of which Jupiter is one
Using those factors would you read the rumor as true or false?
Jupiter is usually associated with honesty / ethics.
AND I'm not sure if Jupiter in my 1st house
means I'll find the answer soon
or if there's other mitigating factors.


Moon is in an angular house, in Mars' detriment
and the only applying aspect is to the ASC.
If Moon is in detriment, would that make the rumor definitively false?
I posted the chart just for visual sake.
Help on the above questions would be appreciated..
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
Thank you guys! I misread the article, which is here: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/william-lilly/report-true.php

The author specifically points out Lily didn't consider Neptune, because it wasn't discovered 200 years later, and like we all agreed on - traditional astrology would point to the 4th house being ruled by Jupiter in this case.

However, when answering the question and taking house rulers into consideration (FIRST... I know there's all this other stuff in the chart, but I'm focused on understanding *this* specific matter) given the 3H of rumors and messages is ruled by Saturn, who has been said to be deceitful, but the 4H / Moon's house is ruled by Jupiter who is looked at as honest and trustworthy in comparison - which do you pick? I'm paralleling the same line of thought as the author of the article, house wise.

OVERALL - Jupiter doesn't even aspect with Saturn, and Saturn is in the 3H's turned 12H, plus other stuff indicates the rumor is false.
 
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Chrysalis

Well-known member
I don't understand why your only taking L3 into consideration. A rumor has come from someone which would be L7, so its important to also look at L7 ruler and what its been doing, and the shape its in.

Mercs in bad shape dignity wise and out of sect. Merc is out of sect, as in a night chart merc should be rising after the sun not before, as mercs rising before the sun, merc is a diurnal planet in a nocturnal sign when should be at least in a diurnal sign....so everything about mercury is wrong. This makes mercury act totally out of character.

So the rumor was false.

You've still not said what the rumor was ? I did ask in my first reply.
 

Dirius

Well-known member
Thank you guys! I misread the article, which is here: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/william-lilly/report-true.php

The author specifically points out Lily didn't consider Neptune, because it wasn't discovered 200 years later, and like we all agreed on - traditional astrology would point to the 4th house being ruled by Jupiter in this case.

However, when answering the question and taking house rulers into consideration (FIRST... I know there's all this other stuff in the chart, but I'm focused on understanding *this* specific matter) given the 3H of rumors and messages is ruled by Saturn, who has been said to be deceitful, but the 4H / Moon's house is ruled by Jupiter who is looked at as honest and trustworthy in comparison - which do you pick? I'm paralleling the same line of thought as the author of the article, house wise.

OVERALL - Jupiter doesn't even aspect with Saturn, and Saturn is in the 3H's turned 12H, plus other stuff indicates the rumor is false.

Ok, the problem is that article doesn't really explain Lilly's methodology. Lilly pretty much offers 2 methods for finding out if a rumor is true. One developed by himself, and the other passed on by tradition (in his words by "the ancients"). You should read Christian Astrology and decide which one is best suited for the rumor.

a) The first method is about the 1st house ruler, the 3rd house ruler and the Moon and how they are configured to each planet. Using this method Lilly reads the rumor chart as any other chart, concerned on whether the information of the rumor happened or not, by trying to determine through aspects if the planets interacted the way the rumor indicates.

b) The second method is about whether the rumor is actually true or false, and its simply checking if the angles and planets involved (1st house ruler, 3rd house ruler and Moon) on the chart are placed in fixed signs, wich indicates truth; if the planets and angles are placed in other signs, the rumor would be considered false. Usually you check for a majority of testimonies before granting judgement.
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
I don't understand why your only taking L3 into consideration. A rumor has come from someone which would be L7, so its important to also look at L7 ruler and what its been doing, and the shape its in.

Mercs in bad shape dignity wise and out of sect. Merc is out of sect, as in a night chart merc should be rising after the sun not before, as mercs rising before the sun, merc is a diurnal planet in a nocturnal sign when should be at least in a diurnal sign....so everything about mercury is wrong. This makes mercury act totally out of character.

So the rumor was false.

You've still not said what the rumor was ? I did ask in my first reply.

Focused on the 3H ruler because of the article saying Neptune was in the 3rd house and it was ruled by Pisces, and regardless of technicalities we all know Pisces is the sign of illusions among other things, thus it made sense. I was unclear what Aquarius would signify as a 3H ruler since it's not as black and white is all.

The rumor I initially had in mind was more abstract because I don't know if someone said it or not, I wondered if they were gossiping about me. That in particular wasn't about 2nd house stuff ...but you were right that I did find out information regarding money. My grandma is sick so my mom and her sister are helping her and figuring out estate stuff, and my aunt wants to give my cousins (her sons) a large sum of money from the estate.
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
a) The first method is about the 1st house ruler, the 3rd house ruler and the Moon and how they are configured to each planet. Using this method Lilly reads the rumor chart as any other chart, concerned on whether the information of the rumor happened or not, by trying to determine through aspects if the planets interacted the way the rumor indicates.

I'm reading CA right now and based on what it says about 3H matters I'm a little unclear still... it says cosigns are Gemini and Mars, and it's bad to have Mars there unless it's joined by Saturn. Okay. It also says the house is masculine. Where my mind goes to is the house is ruled by Saturn, a feminine planet, but is masculine... unless the fact it's ruled by a feminine planet means the rumor is false. I overthink a lot.

On a side note, it's interesting he mentions Moon being considered the messenger (or 5H ruler but that's irrelevant here), and in the 10th house it represents a public matter and one that's political in nature. Given the 10H ruler here is Virgo and Saturn being in the turned 12H I wondered if it was about work. I go back to work Monday, we've been on Spring Break. Also "If the planet received is 11H ruler he wants to be friends," would that mean Moon wants to be friends or Venus? I'm guessing Venus.

b) The second method is about whether the rumor is actually true or false, and its simply checking if the angles and planets involved (1st house ruler, 3rd house ruler and Moon) on the chart are placed in fixed signs, wich indicates truth; if the planets and angles are placed in other signs, the rumor would be considered false. Usually you check for a majority of testimonies before granting judgement.

I like this method better because it's quicker. 1H ruler is mutable, 3H fixed and Moon is in an angular house ruled by a mutable therefore the rumor is false. So in essence as I responded to Crys above, the person I had in mind has not said anything about me.
 

tikana

Well-known member
I was reading an example of Lily's where they asked a question regarding history, and in it say "Neptune is in the 3rd house so the rumor is clearly false" - that makes sense.
.

that is not 100% LILLY you are reading Zadkiel's version
Lilly never said that because neptune wasnt discovered for another 300 years
 

tikana

Well-known member
I don't understand why your only taking L3 into consideration. A rumor has come from someone which would be L7, so its important to also look at L7 ruler and what its been doing, and the shape its in.

Mercs in bad shape dignity wise and out of sect. Merc is out of sect, as in a night chart merc should be rising after the sun not before, as mercs rising before the sun, merc is a diurnal planet in a nocturnal sign when should be at least in a diurnal sign....so everything about mercury is wrong. This makes mercury act totally out of character.

So the rumor was false.

You've still not said what the rumor was ? I did ask in my first reply.

take 3rd for a rumor
7th may not be malignnant even if the rumor was false
 
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