Natal Chart Reading

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Warlocke

Active member
Also we think of houses wrong in the rest. Houses are a physical point in the Earth. All energy from the sign vortexes in a single point and disperses through Earth from there. Houses are a Single Point with in the sign. So all planets within a sign are consider part of that sign is the all funnel down to Earth at specific point, the Bhava Point, The House Cusp.

In Jyotish they call that chart Bhava-Chalit Chart. That's the chart typical Western Astrology uses. I do use that chart to calculate aspects to Bhava points for Strength of Manifestation Calculations. But it is no good for personality interpretation in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkvy5eXcIug

Ernst Wilhelm explains why more that I can

So you using that whole sign House System her Moon is in the 8th. And Moon in the 8th interpretation resonated which was just one more confirmation that the Science was better. I want the Science to speak for itself, not me speak for the science.
 
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VenusianGirl

Well-known member
moonris3 said:
Never heard of the house of loss before. The explanation of Warlocks makes perfect sense, and even better anyway, your 12th house holds Neptune, and that alone can indicate changing father figures when aspected with the Sun. But the Moon in 8th doesn't indicate losing parents. The Sun instead can indicate that, when in 8th. I liked how he redirected the Aries Saturn to Capricorn, but that house doesn't mean loss anyway, even if you've read it on the internet. And Mars is not the mother even if Jesus Christ had written that. No. Anyway, drawing the house ruler back to its sign is nevertheless a rather twisted way of analyzing charts, which I'd like to have clarifications on from Warlock. I think he drew most of this readings from an aftermath-approach. That's totally fine but leaves me curious about the methodology. You see, we have 2 symbols for the father: Sun and Saturn. Your Sun is already challenged by Neptune (which is weird and can indicate indeed the father "switch"), the Moon (that here again talks about a difficult parents relationship), and Jupiter (which lows down a bit your optimism). That's a strong mix, even because, redirecting the house rulers to Venus, the feminine energy, Taurus ruler, in 4th, we see an opposition of Venus with Pluto (male creative energy). Isn't it enough? The Moon squares your Venus too. That's another strong chord that you should feel tense regarding your roots (4th) and the expansion in the world (10th), that's related to the Moon as well, your childhood, the mother again. Both Venus and Pluto square it. And the Moon means childhood too, so that's probably the opposition you've been divided through since a child: Pluto, the world, and male, versus Venus, your home, and female.
I see a very good Saturn in your theme, I wouldn't give it such bad connotations because as you said, despite what your father meant, you don't have any particular bad thoughts over him. It seems almost as if you could be after this "lost" figure, for Neptune in Capricorn (Saturn) and Aries (Mars) holding it, with Mars and Saturn creating the only absolute 2 good positive aspects, seem to rescue your lost male ideal with the realization of your self. I don't see why redirecting all the negative configurations to Saturn when it is rather ok there where it is, and why not talk about the Sun instead which is the most sensitive spot. I'm curious, it's as if he looked for the proof of what you said.. Idk, that's just another methodology perhaps, and doesn't seem very astro-logical to me. You can explain it all with a normal reading and without having to calculate the distances of the baghavata gita or what not.
I just didn’t really understand the very logic behind this, although it was very good lol
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Unless I'm in a weird head space today, I'm lost. Not sure where you got the perception that he said Mars represented the mother? Unless I somehow missed that, but I can't seem to find that sentence.

I don't think my Saturn is strong and I most definitely feel it's obstacles residing in my 2nd house of finances, and through all of my research over the years regarding this aspect, never have I found blog posts that suggested it was a positive part of my chart.

The part about me not particularly caring for the absence of my dad and not having bad thoughts about him - I think it's because that part of me is greatly repressed and needs therapy to thaw it. I don't think it's possible to be totally unaffected by such a "loss" and to remain non chalant.

Why do you think the sun is my weakest part?

I'm not taking sides and here to say someone is wrong and someone is right, there's things I agree with and things I disagree with, but ultimately just want to understand things better from different outlooks.
 
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Warlocke

Active member
Go read the Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra and go study Jaimini before you can make a judgement on what's right and wrong in that system. I've studied both while you're calling things wrong that you've never investigated.

I've giving you sources on where I got my information
Alice Bailey: Founder of Esoteric Astrology who was taught by Madame Blavatsky the founder of Theosophy
Ernst Wilhelm: One of today's leading Vedic Astrological Teachers
And the tradational Western/Greek/Gnostic teachings you're referring to.

I read the master text. I gave you just some link and video to make the read even easier so you wouldn't have to go through the text. And you didn't even go look at that before you continued your debate so why would I give more proof. Your obviously not interested in learning more of my point of view than proving yours so why would I continue?

I made my interpretation, you made yours, it's up for the client to FEEL what resonates because in the end our words mean nothing.

I'm hear to interpret, receive feedback, and share my sources....not debate.
 
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Warlocke

Active member
VenusianGirl said:
Unless I'm in a weird head space today, I'm lost. Not sure where you got the perception that he said Mars represented the mother? Unless I somehow missed that, but I can't seem to find that sentence.

I don't think my Saturn is strong and I most definitely feel it's obstacles residing in my 2nd house of finances, and through all of my research over the years regarding this aspect, never have I found blog posts that suggested it was a positive part of my chart.

The part about me not particularly caring for the absence of my dad and not having bad thoughts about him - I think it's because that part of me is greatly repressed and needs therapy to thaw it. I don't think it's possible to be totally unaffected by such a "loss" and to remain non chalant.

Why do you think the sun is my weakest part?

I'm not taking sides and here to say someone is wrong and someone is right, there's things I agree with and things I disagree with, but ultimately just want to understand things better from different outlooks.
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I did say Mars represent Mother. Vedics even call the Native Americans the Martian Race. The Red Race. The Race of Mother Earth. Mars is a child of the Earth. Is it coincidence that a lot of top male professional athletes come Single Mother Households?

Mother teaches the child Moon (Nurturing, Comfort, Home) she also teachers Mars (Devotion, Honor the Family, Protection of the Family, unity with brothers and sister, protection of the Earth, protection of the mother).

Mothers make/produce good solders Father Teaches them (Jupiter) and Trains them (Saturn) and gives them a sense of purpose (Sun). Nowhere is Mars a Karaka of the Father. Brothers at most, never Father.

But I'll let Moon answer the rest of the questions for you. I don't want to overtalk a board.
 
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VenusianGirl

Well-known member
Warlocke said:
I did say Mars represent Mother. Vedics even call the Native Americans the Martian Race. The Red Race. The Race of Mother Earth. Mars is a child of the Earth. Is it coincidence that a lot of top male professional athletes come Single Mother Households?

Mother teaches the child Moon (Nurturing, Comfort, Home) she also teachers Mars (Devotion, Honor the Family, Protection of the Family, unity with brothers and sister, protection of the Earth, protection of the mother). Mothers make/produce good solders Father Teaches them (Jupiter) and Trains them (Saturn) and gives them a sense of purpose (Sun). Nowhere is Mars a Karaka of the Father. Brothers at most, never Father.

But I'll let Moon answer the rest of the questions for you. I don't want to overtalk a board.
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I guess I missed that part then, thanks for clarifying! I don't know much about mars being linked to the mom, or karakas and some other names you've used, therefore I don't think it's fair for me to say whether you're wrong, right or give any type of input since I don't have knowledge for this. So I'm receiving all the info with an open mind :)
 
sylph

sylph

Well-known member
haha, no problem! I'm obsessed with these little details (super Virgo over here).. so I read all I can about what the planets signify and are associated with.

I will say, however, that I haven't often seen Mars being referred to as a karaka for mother. Is this because Moon is the hugely predominant factor?
 
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Warlocke

Active member
sylph said:
haha, no problem! I'm obsessed with these little details (super Virgo over here).. so I read all I can about what the planets signify and are associated with.

I will say, however, that I haven't often seen Mars being referred to as a karaka for mother. Is this because Moon is the hugely predominant factor?
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Mars is not a Karaka/Significator of Mother, but neither is it Father. It is brother and other Peers within the personal environment. That is all I was trying to rely when I used Karaka.

Mars represents (not Significator of) Mother so wherever someones Mars is in a chart I can tell that the teachings of that position are someway connected with the vehicle of the Mother.

In this this instance Moon is with Mars. Saturn (Aries) disposes through Mars to Saturn. I'm not going to make more revelations on her chart because I don't want to put her in the spotlight but you can take a guess as to what energy the Father brought through Aries to cause the friction/split with the mother that caused an unbalanced relationship with Venusian in which she learned (again through the mother) her faulting finding and nit picky side. Virgo is good at being critical and finding imperfections while Mars is action oriented and wants to do something about it. So now she feels emotionally lacking, because of the interaction with the mother and her Virgo issues and wants to do something about it so she directs this through Mercury (ruler of Virgo) to her 4th house Taurus. She's learned to be critical of her emotional state/psyche/self from the interaction with the mother but Mars gives the action needed to research the facts and go about doing something to win the battle and achieve Taurean Self Worth/ Personal Goals/ and Comfortable Home. Becoming more Sensual (Taurus) with the Deeper parts of herself (4th)

Interesting Tidbit....Taurus is the sign of the Buddha. Mercury in Taurus is like building a buddha mind. Meditative, single tracked, and undisturbed by outside emotion. She says she thinks it's a problem that she doesn't feel anything during emotional upheaval or towards her father. But that non reactive state is precisely what the intellect(Mercury) is trying to accomplish although it's got a lot of Martian pressure trying to upheave it. There in lies that battle. Mars want to feel/Do/Solve, Mercury wants to be a monk and that conflict plays a drama in the inner voice.

I hope that makes sense. I'm sure it resonates with the Venusian since it is her chart.
 
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sylph

sylph

Well-known member
Warlocke said:
Mars is not a Karaka/Significator of Mother, but neither is it Father. It is brother and other Peers within the personal environment. That is all I was trying to rely when I used Karaka.

Mars represents (not Significator of) Mother so wherever someones Mars is in a chart I can tell that the teachings of that position are someway connected with the vehicle of the Mother.

In this this instance Moon is with Mars. Saturn (Aries) disposes through Mars to Saturn. I'm not going to make more revelations on her chart because I don't want to put her in the spotlight but you can take a guess as to what energy the Father brought through Aries to cause the friction/split with the mother that caused an unbalanced relationship with Venusian in which she learned (again through the mother) her faulting finding and nit picky side. Virgo is good at being critical and finding imperfections while Mars is action oriented and wants to do something about it. So now she feels emotionally lacking, because of the interaction with the mother and her Virgo issues and wants to do something about it so she directs this through Mercury (ruler of Virgo) to her 4th house Taurus. She's learned to be critical of her emotional state/psyche/self from the interaction with the mother but Mars gives the action needed to research the facts and go about doing something to win the battle and achieve Taurean Self Worth/ Personal Goals/ and Comfortable Home. Becoming more Sensual (Taurus) with the Deeper parts of herself (4th)

Interesting Tidbit....Taurus is the sign of the Buddha. Mercury in Taurus is like building a buddha mind. Meditative, single tracked, and undisturbed by outside emotion. She says she thinks it's a problem that she doesn't feel anything during emotional upheaval or towards her father. But that non reactive state is precisely what the intellect(Mercury) is trying to accomplish although it's got a lot of Martian pressure trying to upheave it. There in lies that battle. Mars want to feel/Do/Solve, Mercury wants to be a monk and that conflict plays a drama in the inner voice.

I hope that makes sense. I'm sure it resonates with the Venusian since it is her chart.
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Yes, it makes perfect sense even though it's not my chart lol.

I was actually going to say earlier that I don't think Mars is a karaka for mother, but rather may indicate certain things that the mother desires for the child. I don't know if this is what you were positing re: the teachings coming through the vehicle of the mother.
 
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Warlocke

Active member
sylph said:
Yes, it makes perfect sense even though it's not my chart lol.

I was actually going to say earlier that I don't think Mars is a karaka for mother, but rather may indicate certain things that the mother desires for the child. I don't know if this is what you were positing re: the teachings coming through the vehicle of the mother.
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You couldn't have said it better. I know I can be wordy lol.
 
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VenusianGirl

Well-known member
Warlocke said:
Mars is not a Karaka/Significator of Mother, but neither is it Father. It is brother and other Peers within the personal environment. That is all I was trying to rely when I used Karaka.

Mars represents (not Significator of) Mother so wherever someones Mars is in a chart I can tell that the teachings of that position are someway connected with the vehicle of the Mother.

In this this instance Moon is with Mars. Saturn (Aries) disposes through Mars to Saturn. I'm not going to make more revelations on her chart because I don't want to put her in the spotlight but you can take a guess as to what energy the Father brought through Aries to cause the friction/split with the mother that caused an unbalanced relationship with Venusian in which she learned (again through the mother) her faulting finding and nit picky side. Virgo is good at being critical and finding imperfections while Mars is action oriented and wants to do something about it. So now she feels emotionally lacking, because of the interaction with the mother and her Virgo issues and wants to do something about it so she directs this through Mercury (ruler of Virgo) to her 4th house Taurus. She's learned to be critical of her emotional state/psyche/self from the interaction with the mother but Mars gives the action needed to research the facts and go about doing something to win the battle and achieve Taurean Self Worth/ Personal Goals/ and Comfortable Home. Becoming more Sensual (Taurus) with the Deeper parts of herself (4th)

Interesting Tidbit....Taurus is the sign of the Buddha. Mercury in Taurus is like building a buddha mind. Meditative, single tracked, and undisturbed by outside emotion. She says she thinks it's a problem that she doesn't feel anything during emotional upheaval or towards her father. But that non reactive state is precisely what the intellect(Mercury) is trying to accomplish although it's got a lot of Martian pressure trying to upheave it. There in lies that battle. Mars want to feel/Do/Solve, Mercury wants to be a monk and that conflict plays a drama in the inner voice.

I hope that makes sense. I'm sure it resonates with the Venusian since it is her chart.
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Very well explained and very accurate, that's why I try not pay too much attention to all the planets and names and methods etc, but rather soak in the info being described in between. Not sure if you were implying my dad was baysive to my mom (I assumed that due to the Aries mars) he was physical with her only twice, so yes it did happen, but she only was with him to settle down because he seemed like a good man. I have an older brother from a different dad and that marriage was bad, so she was a single parent with my brother and that my dad would be stable. He was very invasive, controlling, lying, passive aggressive, moody, a gossiper, manipulative, spiteful/revengeful, suffocating and kind of like a woman to be honest LOL not really any masculine energy in him, he would run to his mom and all her friends to talk **** about her. Listen in on phone conversations, spy on things etc. He was intimidated by her, my mom has a veeeery strong presence, power and energy. They just really clashed.

I for sure have that struggle between being too emotional (but it's all inside not outside, the only real emotion I express to others very strongly is anger borderline rage, something I have to work on, it's terrifying when that side comes out.) but most of the time I try rationalize my emotions and have more of a psychological approach, which can be good, but in some cases bad because I put a block on certain feelings that I truly do need to feel and let out.

I think the most important info though is that I'm basically Buddha ;) lol kidding kidding!
 
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VenusianGirl

Well-known member
sylph said:
haha, no problem! I'm obsessed with these little details (super Virgo over here).. so I read all I can about what the planets signify and are associated with.

I will say, however, that I haven't often seen Mars being referred to as a karaka for mother. Is this because Moon is the hugely predominant factor?
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if you're interested, I'd be curious to get an interpretation from you too of my chart :) or some aspect not discussed yet, a certain energy etc.
 
sylph

sylph

Well-known member
VenusianGirl said:
if you're interested, I'd be curious to get an interpretation from you too of my chart :) or some aspect not discussed yet, a certain energy etc.
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Sure! Well, I am very focused on nakshatras (lunar mansions) at this time. If you would like more information, see this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakshatra

Generally, the most important nakshatra in your birth chart -- at least in Vedic astrology -- is the one in which your Moon is located. In fact, what we call the "birth sign" in Vedic astrology is actually the Moon's sign (or the Moon's nakshatra) rather than the Sun sign. Reading about your "birth sign" can bring a whole new level of insight, as it is often incredibly telling and accurate in terms of how the person experiences life.

Lagna (or ascendant) is also very important, but for now I am going to focus on your Moon's nakshatra.

So I see that your Moon is in Magha nakshatra. This is awesome for me, as Magha is one that I've been studying more in-depth lately. I really admire this energy a lot, although I don't have anything in my chart in Magha (maybe an asteroid or something that I haven't looked at yet, but none of the main planets). Anyway, Magha is located between 26 degrees of Leo and 9 degrees 20' of Virgo in the tropical zodiac. The fixed star Regulus, at 29 degrees of Leo, has an influence here. One might associate Magha with many of the classic Leonine qualities (particularly because in the sidereal zodiac, all of Magha falls within Leo and there is no Virgo influence); so there is perhaps a regal air or aura surrounding the native. However -- and this is very important -- each of the nakshatras has a ruler that is NOT the same ruler of the sign. So in addition to the Moon sign being ruled by a particular planet, there is another energy that comes into play (the ruler of the lunar mansion). In Magha's case, the ruler is Ketu, the South Node.

Being born into a Ketu-ruled nakshatra can make one more inclined toward detachment and spirituality. Seems contradictory, considering that Leo's ruler, the Sun, can be associated with worldly power, luxury and majesty, authority, royalty, etc. Doesn't exactly conjure up images of spirituality and asceticism, does it? But that is part of what makes Magha natives legitimately powerful, I think. Their power is coming from a different source, a different level. So it doesn't matter what their actual situation is in life, whether they are a queen or a person with nothing; they will still exude a certain self-esteem and power. Ketu tells them that they are not of this world, so ironically, it is their spirituality and disconnection from the material that truly makes them special, regal, etc. Essentially, they are apt to realize that it's not their worldly status which determines how wonderful or powerful they are. Quite different from how we often think of Leo.

If this resonates, I can continue! Just a bit of what I personally understand re: Magha.
 
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VenusianGirl

Well-known member
sylph said:
Sure! Well, I am very focused on nakshatras (lunar mansions) at this time. If you would like more information, see this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakshatra

Generally, the most important nakshatra in your birth chart -- at least in Vedic astrology -- is the one in which your Moon is located. In fact, what we call the "birth sign" in Vedic astrology is actually the Moon's sign (or the Moon's nakshatra) rather than the Sun sign. Reading about your "birth sign" can bring a whole new level of insight, as it is often incredibly telling and accurate in terms of how the person experiences life.

Lagna (or ascendant) is also very important, but for now I am going to focus on your Moon's nakshatra.

So I see that your Moon is in Magha nakshatra. This is awesome for me, as Magha is one that I've been studying more in-depth lately. I really admire this energy a lot, although I don't have anything in my chart in Magha (maybe an asteroid or something that I haven't looked at yet, but none of the main planets). Anyway, Magha is located between 26 degrees of Leo and 9 degrees 20' of Virgo in the tropical zodiac. The fixed star Regulus, at 29 degrees of Leo, has an influence here. One might associate Magha with many of the classic Leonine qualities (particularly because in the sidereal zodiac, all of Magha falls within Leo and there is no Virgo influence); so there is perhaps a regal air or aura surrounding the native. However -- and this is very important -- each of the nakshatras has a ruler that is NOT the same ruler of the sign. So in addition to the Moon sign being ruled by a particular planet, there is another energy that comes into play (the ruler of the lunar mansion). In Magha's case, the ruler is Ketu, the South Node.

Being born into a Ketu-ruled nakshatra can make one more inclined toward detachment and spirituality. Seems contradictory, considering that Leo's ruler, the Sun, can be associated with worldly power, luxury and majesty, authority, royalty, etc. Doesn't exactly conjure up images of spirituality and asceticism, does it? But that is part of what makes Magha natives legitimately powerful, I think. Their power is coming from a different source, a different level. So it doesn't matter what their actual situation is in life, whether they are a queen or a person with nothing; they will still exude a certain self-esteem and power. Ketu tells them that they are not of this world, so ironically, it is their spirituality and disconnection from the material that truly makes them special, regal, etc. Essentially, they are apt to realize that it's not their worldly status which determines how wonderful or powerful they are. Quite different from how we often think of Leo.

If this resonates, I can continue! Just a bit of what I personally understand re: Magha.
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Definitely resonates! I dipped into Vedic astrology a bit a while back and remember that some of my signs changed from the western I was used to, but yet I still related to it. So now I like to blend different kinds of astrology because I feel like I can relate to different things in each. (Glad I still remain a Taurus though and don't go back a sign into Aries lol no hate to Aries people but I just love being a Taurus.)

Would enjoy if you'd continue :)
 
sylph

sylph

Well-known member
VenusianGirl said:
Definitely resonates! I dipped into Vedic astrology a bit a while back and remember that some of my signs changed from the western I was used to, but yet I still related to it. So now I like to blend different kinds of astrology because I feel like I can relate to different things in each. (Glad I still remain a Taurus though and don't go back a sign into Aries lol no hate to Aries people but I just love being a Taurus.)

Would enjoy if you'd continue :)
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That's exactly what I do lol, I have my own unique blend of astrology. Some of the sign changes resonate with me more than tropical and some less so. In any case, that's why I like to study the nakshatras -- because they are constant. So if you are Magha in Jyotish, you are still Magha in Western.

I'll talk about your lagna now. You are a sidereal Capricorn ascendant, which may not resonate with you, but bear with me. The exact degree of your ascendant is at the beginning of Shravana nakshatra. The ruler of Shravana is the Moon. So the combined/dual influence becomes one of Saturn and the Moon. Just as with all the nakshatras, the ruler of the nakshatra becomes an important focal point. With Shravana rising, the native likely appears as a wise, disciplined, controlled, restrained teacher of sorts (Saturn), yet with enough sensitivity and care (Moon) to be appealing and "sought out" by others. People may see you as (or think that you are) a sort of guide, someone who can lead them toward success or happiness or fulfillment.

Again, this is just my understanding so far of Shravana :)
 
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VenusianGirl

Well-known member
sylph said:
That's exactly what I do lol, I have my own unique blend of astrology. Some of the sign changes resonate with me more than tropical and some less so. In any case, that's why I like to study the nakshatras -- because they are constant. So if you are Magha in Jyotish, you are still Magha in Western.

I'll talk about your lagna now. You are a sidereal Capricorn ascendant, which may not resonate with you, but bear with me. The exact degree of your ascendant is at the beginning of Shravana nakshatra. The ruler of Shravana is the Moon. So the combined/dual influence becomes one of Saturn and the Moon. Just as with all the nakshatras, the ruler of the nakshatra becomes an important focal point. With Shravana rising, the native likely appears as a wise, disciplined, controlled, restrained teacher of sorts (Saturn), yet with enough sensitivity and care (Moon) to be appealing and "sought out" by others. People may see you as (or think that you are) a sort of guide, someone who can lead them toward success or happiness or fulfillment.

Again, this is just my understanding so far of Shravana :)
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In western my rising sign is Aquarius but I remember in Vedic it's Capricorn and they both resonate again lol! On one hand people say I appear very different, mysterious, detached, unique but at the same time very bold, business like, serious, put together, structured and intimidating. So I feel like a mix of the two!
 
sylph

sylph

Well-known member
VenusianGirl said:
In western my rising sign is Aquarius but I remember in Vedic it's Capricorn and they both resonate again lol! On one hand people say I appear very different, mysterious, detached, unique but at the same time very bold, business like, serious, put together, structured and intimidating. So I feel like a mix of the two!
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Though I know many astrologers and people on this forum would disagree with me, sometimes I feel like Tropical and Vedic are simultaneously correct. Maybe that's because of my Mercurial nature ;) Other times, though, I strongly prefer one over the other. Like, despite my Moon's nakshatra being Bharani no matter what, I am much more of an Aries Moon (which is my sidereal sign) than a Taurus Moon.

I can definitely understand how you would feel connected to both Aquarius and Capricorn, as I have my natal Saturn in Shravana and I don't necessarily care whether I am identified as having Saturn in Capricorn or Saturn in Aquarius. They both resonate very well, so it's easier to just think about it in terms of the nakshatra. Not saying this method is for everyone, but I find that the nakshatras have very specific energies that are contained within them. Their descriptions are much more detailed and narrowly defined than you generally see with an entire sign.
 
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Warlocke

Active member
I am inclined to believe Nakshatras are the best system. They're fixed starts that don't move. You can't confuse that.

In terms of the Zodiac they are invisble forces coming in that we can't put a definitive eye on. That makes it the source of soooo much debate.

That being said, although I use Nakshatras to see lordship at times, my knowledge is very very weak of them. You'll have to be my teacher there Sylph.
 
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