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Modern Astrology For discussions on Modern Astrology only. (Note: Typically, modern astrology is defined as using techniques developed around the late 1800s by Theosophists. Specifically it relies on psychological, evolutionary, karmic, and non-western interpretation approaches and includes Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, and non-Ptolemaic aspects. The focus is more on psychological chart interpretation instead of prediction.)


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  #51  
Unread 03-20-2021, 03:43 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

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pffff. . ..

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  #52  
Unread 03-20-2021, 06:45 AM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

im not a scorpio
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  #53  
Unread 03-20-2021, 10:39 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

Apps, this 12/12 system isn't a hodgepodge grab-bag, anything goes, whatever-you-want Rulership method. It's based on carefully thought-out patterns, which led to the final result. And, I'm not saying it's the "only right way" to look at a chart.

At least we agree that the Sun is domiciled in Leo!

Chiron might well be domiciled in Sagittarius, which would completely change all of the other designations, so that's a crucial decision. For me, it depends entirely on which of the two centaur constellations was originally meant to depict him.

Last edited by david starling; 03-20-2021 at 10:59 AM.
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  #54  
Unread 03-20-2021, 07:29 PM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

Carefully thought out patterns... I have no idea how those patterns work. From the outside, it looks random.
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  #55  
Unread 11-26-2021, 03:40 PM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

I think the Chiron domicile sign is in Sagittarius/Pisces
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  #56  
Unread 11-27-2021, 01:03 AM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

Chiron and Sagittarius: both centaurs.

Chiron shows us "where it hurts," but where, if we stay open to those hurts, we gain in wisdom and compassion.

Chiron was probably the centaur of Sagittarius.

Jupiter rules Sagittarius and wisdom.

Trouble is, astronomical Chiron is a combo asteroid and comet. Not a planet.
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  #57  
Unread 11-27-2021, 02:02 AM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

Lantero, says the astrologers studying it, despite its placement, believe it does not have a domicile.

They say it acts like a planet, they call it a Planet, but only permit a 1 degree orb.
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  #58  
Unread 11-27-2021, 01:34 PM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

There are those that have tried to fit him into Virgo, Scorpio, Sagittarius and Ophiucus, the latter covers all of those in the expanse of the sky. But, most agreed upon the Centaurus, where he was placed 9 days after his death.
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  #59  
Unread 11-28-2021, 05:20 AM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

Chiron’s energy is closer to Scorpio/Sagittarius than Virgo. Chiron, like all Centaurs, ultimately deals with connection and transformation of energies. Chiron in particular is the link between Saturn and Uranus. Chiron is less of a planet than Ceres and honestly given slightly more importance than necessary over Ceres. If you’re too focused on fitting Chiron into the archetype of actual planets, you should continue your research and look at how some other Centaurs function within the chart (Chiron isn’t even the largest of the bunch) and begin integrating them, and even Kuiper Belt Objects, into your work to cultivate deeper understanding. There are plenty of career astrologers who have done a lot of the leg work to delineate the meaning of these other placements.
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  #60  
Unread 11-28-2021, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronlof View Post
Chiron’s energy is closer to Scorpio/Sagittarius than Virgo. Chiron, like all Centaurs, ultimately deals with connection and transformation of energies. Chiron in particular is the link between Saturn and Uranus. Chiron is less of a planet than Ceres and honestly given slightly more importance than necessary over Ceres. If you’re too focused on fitting Chiron into the archetype of actual planets, you should continue your research and look at how some other Centaurs function within the chart (Chiron isn’t even the largest of the bunch) and begin integrating them, and even Kuiper Belt Objects, into your work to cultivate deeper understanding. There are plenty of career astrologers who have done a lot of the leg work to delineate the meaning of these other placements.
I agree with most of what you say, I am reading Erminie Lantero’s book right now, and the astrologers you speak of, talk of how in a very small orb, it behaves as a planet. They don’t call it one, they treat it as one. So far, I am preferring Lantero’s approach and writing to Clow’s. Although, for most readers, I think that Clow’s format would be more endearing. Lantero delves into the myth’s and history more, and I like her style of writing.
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  #61  
Unread 11-28-2021, 01:48 PM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

Also, do you have any suggested reading on the other Kuiper belt asteroids. I prefer books.
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  #62  
Unread 11-28-2021, 03:53 PM
Ronlof Ronlof is offline
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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
I agree with most of what you say, I am reading Erminie Lantero’s book right now, and the astrologers you speak of, talk of how in a very small orb, it behaves as a planet. They don’t call it one, they treat it as one. So far, I am preferring Lantero’s approach and writing to Clow’s. Although, for most readers, I think that Clow’s format would be more endearing. Lantero delves into the myth’s and history more, and I like her style of writing.
Regardless, Chiron does not even act like a planet when looking at it in charts. Like all Centaurs, Chiron crosses the orbits of other planets and links those energies together. No actual planet does that. Centaurs describe the process through which the energies of the planets they link are transmuted. Calling it a planet or not does not change how it operates in the chart.

I will have to look into Erminie Lantero and Clow’s work to cross reference it with other astrologers to determine what is the most general. I have not read anything by Lantero or Close yet, but the dozens of other I have read have come to the same consensus.

Last edited by Ronlof; 11-28-2021 at 03:56 PM.
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  #63  
Unread 11-28-2021, 07:27 PM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

I think Chiron has real meaning in a chart, but I wouldn't go so far as calling it a sign ruler without much more research into how it works as a house cusp ruler (lord.)

I am not into New Age evolutionary astrology. I take a much more pragmatic approach. I think Chiron shows us "where it hurts," more or less permanently, which might be physical, emotional, or spiritual. But Chiron also shows where, if we stay open to those hurts, we can gain in wisdom and compassion for other people.

Mythological Chiron was tutor to gods and heroes, and excelled in medical arts. He accidentally wounded himself with an incurable poison.

If we take mythological Chiron (Kheiron) to be the centaur memorialized in Sagittarius, we have some interesting findings.

The constellation Ophiuchus never made it into the 12-sign zodiac, but it is right in this vicinity of the constellations Scorpio and Sagittarius. Ophiuchus, depicted as a man holding two snakes, was also ascribed to the demi-god Asclepius. Asclepius was the son of Apollo, another healing god, who subsequently became assimilated with Phoebus, the sun god, and sort of overtook the latter's role.

Aesclepius was a doctor the god of healing, and father to several goddesses (like Hygeia), who were also associated with healing and health. He was probably the Greek edition of an Egyptian deified doctor, Imhotep.

A big connection is the constellation Ophiuchus as Asclepius. In Greek art, Asclepius was depicted with a staff entwined with two snakes. This became the caduceus symbol of the medical profession.

Back then, astrologers used the sidereal zodiac. Today the locations of the tropical signs of Scorpio and Saggittarius would be about 24 degrees different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepius

https://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Asklepios.html
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  #64  
Unread 11-28-2021, 07:31 PM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

The constellation Ophiuchus, located between Sagittarius and Scorpio.
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File Type: jpg Ophiuchus.jpg (69.8 KB, 1 views)
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  #65  
Unread 11-28-2021, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronlof View Post
Regardless, Chiron does not even act like a planet when looking at it in charts. Like all Centaurs, Chiron crosses the orbits of other planets and links those energies together. No actual planet does that. Centaurs describe the process through which the energies of the planets they link are transmuted. Calling it a planet or not does not change how it operates in the chart.

I will have to look into Erminie Lantero and Clow’s work to cross reference it with other astrologers to determine what is the most general. I have not read anything by Lantero or Close yet, but the dozens of other I have read have come to the same consensus.
Can you give an example of any of the dozens of books you have read on Chiron?

Erminie Lantero, is one of the pioneers on Chiron, and she was involved with the astronomers and astrologers that with her pioneered the studies of Chiron for the Ephemeris, and of the astrology thereof.

Maybe in your study of the dozens of books you have read, you could share the wisdom you have learned?

Names of any or all authors and books would be productive. Curious to know of all the pioneers, of the study, that you know so much of.

Thanks, Opal

Last edited by Opal; 11-28-2021 at 10:38 PM.
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  #66  
Unread 11-28-2021, 10:10 PM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

They don’t call it a Planet. They say it reacts with the strength of in a 1 degree orb. As I wrote.🙂
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  #67  
Unread 11-28-2021, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I think Chiron has real meaning in a chart, but I wouldn't go so far as calling it a sign ruler without much more research into how it works as a house cusp ruler (lord.)

I am not into New Age evolutionary astrology. I take a much more pragmatic approach. I think Chiron shows us "where it hurts," more or less permanently, which might be physical, emotional, or spiritual. But Chiron also shows where, if we stay open to those hurts, we can gain in wisdom and compassion for other people.

Mythological Chiron was tutor to gods and heroes, and excelled in medical arts. He accidentally wounded himself with an incurable poison.

If we take mythological Chiron (Kheiron) to be the centaur memorialized in Sagittarius, we have some interesting findings.

The constellation Ophiuchus never made it into the 12-sign zodiac, but it is right in this vicinity of the constellations Scorpio and Sagittarius. Ophiuchus, depicted as a man holding two snakes, was also ascribed to the demi-god Asclepius. Asclepius was the son of Apollo, another healing god, who subsequently became assimilated with Phoebus, the sun god, and sort of overtook the latter's role.

Aesclepius was a doctor the god of healing, and father to several goddesses (like Hygeia), who were also associated with healing and health. He was probably the Greek edition of an Egyptian deified doctor, Imhotep.

A big connection is the constellation Ophiuchus as Asclepius. In Greek art, Asclepius was depicted with a staff entwined with two snakes. This became the caduceus symbol of the medical profession.

Back then, astrologers used the sidereal zodiac. Today the locations of the tropical signs of Scorpio and Saggittarius would be about 24 degrees different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepius

https://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Asklepios.html
Hi Waybread,

Sounds like you have read much the same as me. Asklepios, was one of his students too. Your take is very much as Lantero and Clow write about. I have another on Chiron, I will have to find it, and see who authored it. 🙂
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  #68  
Unread 11-29-2021, 06:03 AM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

“Al H Morrison, publisher of the CAO Times and Ephremerides of Chiron, offers the following statement.

I still consider Chiron a major planet, in that it is the only one between Saturn and Uranus.”

“I also consider Chiron a major planet because in my experience it works like one in horoscopes.”

“I have not found a hint of Chiron ruling ANY sign, and do not expect to do so.”

He wrote the ephemerides for Chiron. He is “the” pioneer of Chironic astrology.

If I have to believe someone, from a pioneering perspective, he, I guess you could say, wrote the book.

Did you read anything by him?

Lantero quotes many pioneers of Chiron, from when it found November 1, 1977 to when her book was published in 1983. A mere 6 years after Chiron was located and named.

She too is a pioneer of Chiron.
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  #69  
Unread 11-29-2021, 06:05 AM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

All quotes are exactly typed, even the capitalization.
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  #70  
Unread 11-30-2021, 04:59 AM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

Thank you, Opal. I read Clow's book a long time ago, but not the others. I agree that Chiron has real meaning in a horoscope, but probably no sign rulership.

To me, a sign rulership is not a simple matter of affinity, but I use house cusp rulers (lords) a lot, so a planet has to demonstrably function in that capacity.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #71  
Unread 11-30-2021, 05:14 AM
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Thank you, Opal. I read Clow's book a long time ago, but not the others. I agree that Chiron has real meaning in a horoscope, but probably no sign rulership.

To me, a sign rulership is not a simple matter of affinity, but I use house cusp rulers (lords) a lot, so a planet has to demonstrably function in that capacity.
I have been enjoying Lantero immensely. Also, she gives quotes and insights from many of the other pioneers, and the myths, and of history. I am not yet to page 100. Many books, I skim or read just what I am specifically looking for. Not this one. Great readable writer Waybread. You would appreciate her writing.

I am starting to use the house rulers. I like it. And the importance of the meaning of the houses. But we have both used that forever.

I guess, Chiron is somewhat timely for me now. With Pluto, pushing for or demanding transformation. Chiron licks the wound, and on we go. Pluto, even when I was ready, figured, no way man, retrograde, you need more of this. Right now, Chiron is a welcome friend.
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  #72  
Unread 12-18-2021, 06:10 AM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

wHat does someone do if chiron is prominent and practices the dark arts?

can they see the light of god or has god abandoned them for desecrating themselves with such unholy acts?? please help
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  #73  
Unread 12-18-2021, 08:03 PM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

Bunraku, everyone has Chiron somewhere.

I view Chiron as a dynamic process, not as a static set of personality traits.

Someone is wounded, badly. It might be physical or emotional. The Chiron journey is to stay open to the hurt, and from it, to gain in wisdom and compassion for other people.

But sometimes the hurt festers and the person will not release it. They might then be driven to unsavory behaviors such as revenge, victimhood, or a questionable occult practice. Probably it's about trying to regain a sense of control over a chaotic universe, in which life isn't fair.

A prominent Chiron is not necessarily a well-aspected Chiron.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #74  
Unread 12-18-2021, 09:23 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

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Bunraku, everyone has Chiron somewhere.

I view Chiron as a dynamic process, not as a static set of personality traits.

Someone is wounded, badly. It might be physical or emotional. The Chiron journey is to stay open to the hurt, and from it, to gain in wisdom and compassion for other people.

But sometimes the hurt festers and the person will not release it. They might then be driven to unsavory behaviors such as revenge, victimhood, or a questionable occult practice. Probably it's about trying to regain a sense of control over a chaotic universe, in which life isn't fair.

A prominent Chiron is not necessarily a well-aspected Chiron.

Good post! It opens up another Sign that might be closely related to Chiron. A Cancer-Sun I once worked outdoors with wasn't wearing gloves, even though the work could be hard on the hands (and, "Chiron" means "hand"). He said, "You gotta FEEL IT, even if it hurts".
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  #75  
Unread 12-19-2021, 02:51 AM
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Re: In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

Chiron is included in the new planetary rulership (the signs' trio) theory model:
Aries: Sun/Mars/Pluto.
Taurus: Mercury/Venus/Ceres.
Gemini: Venus/Mercury/Eris.
Cancer: Moon/Ceres/Sun.
Leo: Mars/Sun/Moon.
Virgo: Jupiter/Mercury/Ceres.
Libra: Saturn/Venus/Eris.
Scorpio: Uranus/Pluto/Mars.
Sagittarius: Neptune/Jupiter/Chiron.
Capricorn: Pluto/Saturn/Uranus.
Aquarius: Eris/Uranus/Saturn.
Pisces: Sedna/Neptune/Jupiter.
The 1st is Revised, 2nd are Standard and 3rd are Traditional+Modern rules.
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