Black Magic related Question!

waybread

Well-known member
Cold fusion, I am not your enemy. Do you construe anyone who disagrees with your beliefs as your enemy?

If you are not a Christian, then why cite the gospels?

I have looked at thousands of charts since I began studying astrology in 1990. So please trust me that your charts do not show anything black magical. Obviously they mean something to you. How long have you been studying astrology? At what level?
 

Zonark

Well-known member
Cold fusion, I am not your enemy. Do you construe anyone who disagrees with your beliefs as your enemy?

If you are not a Christian, then why cite the gospels?

I have looked at thousands of charts since I began studying astrology in 1990. So please trust me that your charts do not show anything black magical. Obviously they mean something to you. How long have you been studying astrology? At what level?

Waybread I know Cold Fusion's responses are distressing to you and I can see why but your perspective here is clearly against magic being real at all. I know it's because you have an academic background and that sort of training leads to that sort of attitude and I'm not saying that's wrong but maybe trying to convince people who have these sorts of problems that this sort of thing isn't real isn't the best thing to be doing.

Also an academic should know this but angels and demons aren't a solely Christian notion. Religions around the world have these strata of good and evil beings. Terms of hell and heaven are even used almost ubiquitously.

Cold Fusion, have you given any thought to Angelic possession? Angels are (I should say should be but I've had personal experience with spirit activity and know, for myself, that this can happen) capable of this just as much as Demons and historical accounts of the former abound with the latter. Is it possible you are getting caught up in a perspective that is not truly yours?

By the perspective and realm of Angelic beings and Demonic beings, these are two races, two civilizations if you will, that have been at war for a very long time. Their war has made a serious impact on the human realm but it is important to keep in mind that you are not on either side. You are a human and are most likely to be caught in the crossfire of this war than anything else because it's not your war to fight.
 

Cold Fusion

Well-known member
Cold Fusion, have you given any thought to Angelic possession? Angels are (I should say should be but I've had personal experience with spirit activity and know, for myself, that this can happen) capable of this just as much as Demons and historical accounts of the former abound with the latter. Is it possible you are getting caught up in a perspective that is not truly yours?

By the perspective and realm of Angelic beings and Demonic beings, these are two races, two civilizations if you will, that have been at war for a very long time. Their war has made a serious impact on the human realm but it is important to keep in mind that you are not on either side. You are a human and are most likely to be caught in the crossfire of this war than anything else because it's not your war to fight.

It is a war against people I know are the satanic elite, who I know have the most malicious intention against me than any person on this planet. They started the war, I've hit one of the a-holes pretty hard.

I can't believe he has the audacity to demand I worship him.

I am against the demons who pretend to be the good guys.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Waybread I know Cold Fusion's responses are distressing to you and I can see why but your perspective here is clearly against magic being real at all. I know it's because you have an academic background and that sort of training leads to that sort of attitude and I'm not saying that's wrong but maybe trying to convince people who have these sorts of problems that this sort of thing isn't real isn't the best thing to be doing.

Also an academic should know this but angels and demons aren't a solely Christian notion. Religions around the world have these strata of good and evil beings. Terms of hell and heaven are even used almost ubiquitously.

Cold Fusion, have you given any thought to Angelic possession? Angels are (I should say should be but I've had personal experience with spirit activity and know, for myself, that this can happen) capable of this just as much as Demons and historical accounts of the former abound with the latter. Is it possible you are getting caught up in a perspective that is not truly yours?

By the perspective and realm of Angelic beings and Demonic beings, these are two races, two civilizations if you will, that have been at war for a very long time. Their war has made a serious impact on the human realm but it is important to keep in mind that you are not on either side. You are a human and are most likely to be caught in the crossfire of this war than anything else because it's not your war to fight.

Zonark, you don't "know" any of this stuff about me, for the simple reason that it is fabricated and incorrect. As someone who once compared getting more education to eating broken glass, you know little about academia.

For the record:

1. I do not find my exchanges on black magic to be "distressing."

2. If you or anyone defines "magic" in a real-world sense, I can tell you whether I believe in that definition. The definitions are not all alike. I am a reasonably spiritual person (as per my comments above) but I find that most events attributed to magic really reflect the extraordinary capacities of the human mind. References to the "reality" of black magic too often are the refuge of people who haven't deeply explored metaphysics or the mind. (Try psychological "projection" in this context.)

3. I know a lot of academics and worked in academia for over 30 years. What is your personal experience with higher education? Your gross over-simplification of this complex enterprise commits a huge fallacy of over-generalization. Check out your nearest anthropology and sociology departments to find scholars who study magical beliefs of various societies. Get to know the professors who profess a wide range of personal spiritual beliefs as well as mainstream religions from all over the globe. You clearly have no idea about my metaphysical beliefs.

4. I was well aware of various faiths' and cultures' beliefs in angels, demons, heaven, and hell from before you were born. Cold Fusion's verse from the NT led me to follow up with some Christian positions. (I am not a Christian myself, incidentally.)

5. I post as I see fit. Oftentimes people beyond the posters read threads.

6. If your universe is populated by angels and demons, I am not going to change your mind. I submit that a focus on angels would be more beneficial than reinforcing a belief in mythical evil personifications.
 

waybread

Well-known member
If you would have look at the charts, surely you would know I am not christian.

Look at it and figure it out. We are enemies, and I've had it with trying to love people who will not love me (or can't love period).

I am not your enemy, Cold Fusion. A horoscope does not indicate someone's religious denomination. Torquemada was a Christian! This is one reason why I think you are a beginner in astrology. I don't expect you to love me or anyone. But there is no need for a simplistic love-hate binary. Life isn't like that. We have other emotions to choose from in our inter-personal relationships, such as neutrality, acceptance, "like" or disapproval.

You have to give love to get love. You don't have to seek it from other people if you come from love. And if you feel unloving and unloved, you have to summon it out of yourself-- with all your heart.
 

waybread

Well-known member
If the chart you just posted is your chart, it does suggest some issues to work through, notably Uranus opposite moon. [deleted non-astrological comment - Moderator] Neptune square Mercury can indicate someone prone to imaginative beliefs.

Each planetary placement has several possible meanings, and you do have some say in the matter.
 
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wilsontc

Staff member
STOP attacking each other

All,

This thread has devolved into attacks on each other which is NOT allowed. If you have something relevant on topic to post, please do so. If you simply want to revive the deleted attacks then don't post at all. Further attacking posts could lead to disciplinary action up to and including banning from the Forum.

Strongly warning,

Tim
 

Zonark

Well-known member
Zonark, you don't "know" any of this stuff about me, for the simple reason that it is fabricated and incorrect. As someone who once compared getting more education to eating broken glass, you know little about academia.

For the record:

1. I do not find my exchanges on black magic to be "distressing."

2. If you or anyone defines "magic" in a real-world sense, I can tell you whether I believe in that definition. The definitions are not all alike. I am a reasonably spiritual person (as per my comments above) but I find that most events attributed to magic really reflect the extraordinary capacities of the human mind. References to the "reality" of black magic too often are the refuge of people who haven't deeply explored metaphysics or the mind. (Try psychological "projection" in this context.)

3. I know a lot of academics and worked in academia for over 30 years. What is your personal experience with higher education? Your gross over-simplification of this complex enterprise commits a huge fallacy of over-generalization. Check out your nearest anthropology and sociology departments to find scholars who study magical beliefs of various societies. Get to know the professors who profess a wide range of personal spiritual beliefs as well as mainstream religions from all over the globe. You clearly have no idea about my metaphysical beliefs.

4. I was well aware of various faiths' and cultures' beliefs in angels, demons, heaven, and hell from before you were born. Cold Fusion's verse from the NT led me to follow up with some Christian positions. (I am not a Christian myself, incidentally.)

5. I post as I see fit. Oftentimes people beyond the posters read threads.

6. If your universe is populated by angels and demons, I am not going to change your mind. I submit that a focus on angels would be more beneficial than reinforcing a belief in mythical evil personifications.

I said it was like that for me personally. Other people may enjoy that environment, I don't. It's not for me.

I used the word distressing because you keep insisting to Cold Fusion and others that these things are not real. Dismissive would've been a better word but it's more inflammatory.

Mentalism and logical empiricism is a kind of magic. The brain is not the locus of magic. It is however the locus of the magic of logic. One of the mechanisms the magic of logic uses to defend against other forms of magic is a disputation of ultimate realities which "disprove" forms of magic otherwise harmful to the Logician.

I have spent time in universities and spoken with academics, notably those in chemistry, theology, military history and ancient Asian history studies.

You give away the point by defining the pursuits of anthropological and sociological departments concerning magic as the "study of magical beliefs". This is the tactic of the logician. The unspoken assertion is the beliefs are not provable and are an object of intellectual curiosity.

If one believes in angels, their dark counterpart must also exist.

I enjoy our dialogues and consider you a friend here, please don't be offended.
 

Zonark

Well-known member
It is a war against people I know are the satanic elite, who I know have the most malicious intention against me than any person on this planet. They started the war, I've hit one of the a-holes pretty hard.

I can't believe he has the audacity to demand I worship him.

I am against the demons who pretend to be the good guys.

You should know there is no single Satanic elite, there are many dissemblers in that vein and they work against each other at times.

I understand you are alit by what you're going through, that's clear and understandable.

There is not much we can do to help you from the manner you're approaching this though. Again I understand the difficulty but to us it appears superficially like megalomania and delusions.

What are you up against, in direct terms?
 

Cold Fusion

Well-known member
You should know there is no single Satanic elite, there are many dissemblers in that vein and they work against each other at times.

I understand you are alit by what you're going through, that's clear and understandable.

There is not much we can do to help you from the manner you're approaching this though. Again I understand the difficulty but to us it appears superficially like megalomania and delusions.

What are you up against, in direct terms?

The devil and his servants.

I have his chart, if I could only post it....
 
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Cold Fusion

Well-known member
Well, in the given chart:
-mysterious and often occult (spiritual level) Neptune posits the tradtional "house of secret enemies and plots" (12th house, also traditionally allocated to witchcraft/black magic)
-the 12th house is under fiery Sagittarius (traditionally affinitive to hunters-that could mean "hunter of others" by application of black magic methods)
-12th house Neptune is in square configuration with Sun (symbolic of spirit, vital force, optimism, hope, etc), with Mercury (symbolic of mind, nerves, communications, etc), with Venus (symbolic of empthy, love, romance, sex, love relationships, etc) and with Saturn (symbolic of stability, etc)-so the squares involving 12th house Neptune seem to afflict the significators of important areas/departments of life.
I also notice that the MC is contained between Uranus (sudden and/or unusual, eccentric or uncoventional influences) and Pluto (secrets,plots, secret enemies, hidden yet powerful sources, etc), another unfortunate configuration in the reference chart...

My sun/saturn conjunction is cunjunct the fixed star Asterion:
This constellation gives a love of hunting and a penetrating mind, making those born under it faithful, keen, clever and fond of speculation. [Robson*, p.34.]

We done found each other.

From the evil of the whisperer(s) (devil who whispers evil in the hearts of men) who withdraws (from his whispering in one’s heart after one remembers Allaah).

5. Who whispers in the hearts of mankind.

Maybe these images will help shed some light on the subject, think of the bow pointed towards me as the sickle (Their leader is a capricorn (the one with the bow):
me4_zps4ae8ea6b.gif

stock-photo-terrorist-in-black-uniform-and-mask-with-kalashnikov-isolated-189359324.jpg


Shot through the heart....

Look at the image for the clip:
default.jpg


http://youtu.be/9SSUQxGjZZ4

Here's another chart, no I will not always love her (she's a whore of satan's and my enemy. she ain't my witch):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjgkxjfYHsE

thesatanicchurch_zps823cae6a.gif


Their leader has a venus/saturn/lilith conjunction over Unukalhai (Which is conjunct the satanic churches neptune).

Achird:
Haughtiness, boastfulness, exaggerated pride; commands respect

Unukalhai:
Success followed by fall, suicide, insanity, accidents, success in war, politics, writing, problems in love, forgery, shipwreck, loss, earthquake

There is no sanity to their logic or their behavior. It is completely depraved. Trust me, there really isn't. Not a single one of them understands they are insane and what they do is wrong.

Coordinated, depraved, satanic insanity.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/shocking-depth-of-illuminati-depravity-among-the-elites-video-2997264.html

http://house-of-mirrors.blogspot.com/2011/06/narcissism-is-about-control.html

My Sun/Saturn conjunction is conjunct the fixed star Asterion, The name Asterion seems to have derived from the Latin for "edible root", or "starry". You M.N.'s think I am here to feed your insanity, think again. I'll give hell back.
 
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Cold Fusion

Well-known member
Here's another chart, no I will not always love her (she's a whore of satan's and my enemy, she ain't my witch):


http://youtu.be/KrZHPOeOxQQ

Look at the image for the clip:
default.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjgkxjfYHsE

thesatanicchurch_zps823cae6a.gif


Their leader has a venus/saturn/lilith conjunction over Unukalhai (Which is conjunct the satanic churches neptune).

Achird:
Haughtiness, boastfulness, exaggerated pride; commands respect

Unukalhai:
Success followed by fall, suicide, insanity, accidents, success in war, politics, writing, problems in love, forgery, shipwreck, loss, earthquake

There is no sanity to their logic or their behavior. It is completely depraved. Trust me, there really isn't. Not a single one of them understands they are insane and what they do is wrong.

Coordinated, depraved, satanic insanity.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/shocking-depth-of-illuminati-depravity-among-the-elites-video-2997264.html

http://house-of-mirrors.blogspot.com/2011/06/narcissism-is-about-control.html

My Sun/Saturn conjunction is conjunct the fixed star Asterion, The name Asterion seems to have derived from the Latin for "edible root", or "starry". You M.N.'s think I am here to feed your insanity, think again. I'll give hell back.

http://www.gematrix.org/?word=906
http://www.gematrix.org/?word=930

The heart of the scorpion, Satanism.


The satanic bible

The album Master of Puppets by Metallica.


The rapture of christ:
images


x240-Q8I.jpg


The bishop of Aquila
Bishop.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm71Khu5-Lk

2 Corinthians 4:4
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

Crazier than crazy.
 
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Cold Fusion

Well-known member
Waybread, I have read this thread now and I wanted to say that I'm impressed by your knowledge and reasoning.

I must say you are a wise person.

The chart of your post:


The astrological influences of the star Ras Alhague:
According to Ptolemy it is of the nature of Saturn and Venus; and, to Alvidas, of Jupiter and Mercury in sextile to Mars. It gives misfortune through women, perverted tastes and mental depravity. [Robson*, p.193.]

With Mercury: Unpopular attitude and criticism through religion, philosophy or science; difficulties in marriage and quarrels fostered by others, trouble through opposite sex, not very good for gain. [Robson*, p.193.]

--------------------

She hasn't been all to popular throughout this thread. Are you sure she is that wise?
 
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waybread

Well-known member
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/Robson.html

Cold Fusion, I don't know how much Hellenistic astrology you've read, but it is important to put its isolated snippets into context. The ancient astrologers lived in a very cut-and-dried, "black or white" mental world, without the ambiguity and flexibility that characterizes our post-modern world. Events were either good or bad to them. Most of them were stoics (philosophically,) and they came out of the Babylonian tradition in which the planets were gods or directed by gods. Ipso facto, what the gods decreed, humans could scarcely overturn.

Ditto for the medieval Arab astrologers (the will of Allah,) who comprised a lot of Vivian Robson's material.

Few of us in modern western astrology think that way today. For more up-to-date and constructive readings in fixed stars, I recommend Bernadette Brady's Star and Planet Combinations, and Brady's Book of Fixed Stars. Her interpretation of Ras Alhague might surprise you. See also: Richard Allen, Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning.

If Ptolemy says that a star is "of the nature of Saturn and Venus," We have to understand his schema. Saturn was cold and dry, Venus was warm and moist; and then to work through how this star could give reversals in life or conflicting events, both harmful and beneficial. Robson was a great compiler of star lore, mostly from medieval Arab astrologers. I don't think he did any research himself on stellar influences.

I just checked my copy of Tetrabiblos, I.9, and here is what Ptolemy actually said about the stars in Ophiuchus, including this one:

"The stars in...Ophiuchus [have the nature] of Saturn and to some degree of Venus; those in his serpent, of Saturn and Mars..."

That's it.

Ptolemy and Robson were highly influential in the history of astrology, but Time Marches On.

p.s. (By "he" do you mean me? I'm a she. I don't post to be popular but to say what I believe to be correct.)
 
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Monk

Premium Member
Hi Waybread,

Although i went to the right astrology schools, really i'm an astronomer that loves the myths and legend of ancient Greece and Egypt, however if i specialise in anything it is fixed stars.

I remember some time back getting my knickers in a twist about what i saw on my chart, nearly broke my neck trying to see if 666 was stamped on my butt ha ha!

It was when i was exploring quintiles as i have always studied the Golden Ratio and Phi, which by geometry can be shown as a pentacle.

Link below:-

http://www.mauricefernandez.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2&t=1989

Obviously i do study esoteric stuff, but only write, i'm not a magician ha ha!

Every day a new religion emerges on the world stage, some of them align to the star Alnilam/Osiris and Isis/Sirius, the good the bad and the ugly do the same thing, so it is very difficult in mundane astrology to know who is who!

Before i start, before Eliphas Levi, a upside down pentagon wasn't thought of as evil, it was just a symbol of Phi, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphas_Levi

I am very familiar with Bernadette Brady's writings in fact it is accurate to astronomy, whereas projected measure isn't, unless a star sits on the ecliptic like Regulus, most stars DON'T!

My point is Cold Fusion mentions Church of Satan, and there is electional astrology attached, much different to what we normally study.

Parans start by sunrise, Egyptian daymarker, Sunset previous to date being ancient Greek and Jewish daymarker, or the modern midnight, please note i have Brady's Starlight programme and i do check it against astronomer programmes!

Please scroll down link below about Church of Satan to "Membership", then look upwards two paragraphs, where it says "on the 6th of June 2006, the Church of Satan held it's first public ritual satanic mass in 40 years at the Steve Allen Theatre in the Centre of Inquiry in Los Angeles:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan

Firstly the date was chosen as it was 06/06/06, the location was chosen because it had an alignment to Sirius by ancient Greek daymarker, sunset of previous day, lots of secret societies align to Sirius and Alnilam.

Graph below showing that Sirius set with the Sun along horizon in Los Angeles on sunset previous, please look at bottom graph:-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=3836&mode=view

Therefore as many mundane charts are electional by not normal methods, how can we get clear understanding of any event chart that are chosen for the reasons mentioned, many mundane charts are not accidental.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Thanks for your information and insights, Monk.

Are you familiar with Plutarch's Isis and Osiris?

I think it makes more sense to study fixed stars, which are actually "out there," than many derivative points and dignities that astrologers work with.

I think I'll skip the church of satan material, however. Old Scratch has enough to keep busy with people who think he actually exists.
 

Monk

Premium Member
Obviously Waybread, i had a classical education, so i'm prone to metaphors and latin phrases, this was normal in the 19th Century and before, so never think i'm laughing at you, you just have to think a bit about my strange humour!

Obviously you study the Human Psyche, VERY IMPORTANT IN ASTROLOGY, i just add humour, i love Plutarch, Hesiod and Homer!

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/Isis_and_Osiris*/A.html

Human Psyche mentioned on link below:-

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Psyche

Please scroll down link below to Hesiod (II.609-617) "But when Orion and Sirius are come into mid-heaven, and rosy-fingered Dawn sees Arcturus, then cut off all the grape clusters, Perses, and bring them home".

Sirius and Alnilam have always had a god complex with Human Psyche!

http://www.fullbooks.com/Hesiod-The-Homeric-Hymns-and-Homerica2.html

If i laugh at poor old "Mr. Scratch", it is really laughing at human psyche, not you!

I love Mr. Scratch in symbolism of films, the best comical one was in the very old film "The Devil and Daniel Webster" link below:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUSdk81RUYA

Joke! Dear Waybread, don't get rid of our bad guys, hell we need them in films ha ha! Actors love playing bad guys, "poor old Mr. Scratch", we would have no good stories without him! Shame on you Waybread....humour!
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Monk, I never thought you were laughing at me-- not that I can't take it. (On a good hair day, that is. Watch it. ) How cool that you have a classical education. A huge plus if you're into traditional astrology.

Thanks for the links.

I sometimes cite Hesiod's Works and Days as an example of early Greek cultural astronomy. You are probably also familiar with this site:

www.theoi.com

You're probably right about your last paragraph. The 1967 movie version of Bedazzled with Dudley Moore wasn't bad, either.
 
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