Black Magic related Question!

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ShankarInTrouble

Active member
Waybread, if you have no exposure to black magick and exorcisms, you cannot drive home your point that they do not exist. Please google Chottanikara Bhagavathy Temple, and you'll find videos of exorcism and black magick. And let me tell all you guys one thing, I never claimed I was a victim until I saw it. When I went to some exorcists on this, on chanting of certain verses, my body starting involuntarily shaking and vibrating. I have also visited some people who pulled something black from out of my mouth from my stomach. I have done enough analysis on this and I have been diagonised of having black magick poisoned food in my stomach. The concept is that people mix a dead man's ash along with some mantra onto some food and give it to you. The Islam concept says that when his is done, a spirit (called jinn) gets into your body and unless and until the black magick poisoned food is removed(by vomiting) the jinn stays in the body and brings about the desired impact for which a person has been victimised. Please google more about what I'm telling and you'll get to understand all that I'm telling. The only unfortunate thing is that I've gone to four or five people on this and they couldn't get it out.(I'm saying this because I've responded positively to trials of exorcism. So, someone please refer me some place or person who can remedy this in India. Thanks!
 
Love2Know

Love2Know

Well-known member
ShankarInTrouble said:
Waybread, if you have no exposure to black magick and exorcisms, you cannot drive home your point that they do not exist. Please google Chottanikara Bhagavathy Temple, and you'll find videos of exorcism and black magick. And let me tell all you guys one thing, I never claimed I was a victim until I saw it. When I went to some exorcists on this, on chanting of certain verses, my body starting involuntarily shaking and vibrating. I have also visited some people who pulled something black from out of my mouth from my stomach. I have done enough analysis on this and I have been diagonised of having black magick poisoned food in my stomach. The concept is that people mix a dead man's ash along with some mantra onto some food and give it to you. The Islam concept says that when his is done, a spirit (called jinn) gets into your body and unless and until the black magick poisoned food is removed(by vomiting) the jinn stays in the body and brings about the desired impact for which a person has been victimised. Please google more about what I'm telling and you'll get to understand all that I'm telling. The only unfortunate thing is that I've gone to four or five people on this and they couldn't get it out.(I'm saying this because I've responded positively to trials of exorcism. So, someone please refer me some place or person who can remedy this in India. Thanks!
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That sounds awfully nerve wrecking, I wish I knew more about Indian areas to help you out but I do not. I can only wish you luck and strength. Also I would say the most important thing is to remain calm and remember the only power this situation has is the power you give it. I believe that is the truth and I believe you will come out overall unharmed and stronger. You should also seek some support from trusted people in your immediate environment, not just 'experts' but trusted friends.
 
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The_Saturnian

Well-known member
I have one Vedic solution you could try. If you believe in worshiping certain deities, some say that worshiping Lord Shiva on a Monday by means of reciting the mantra "Om Namah Shivay" using a rosary, 108 times, should alleviate some of the effect if it does not totally nullify it. Offering milk on a Shiva-linga on a Monday whilst reciting the mantra would also help people supposedly affected by black magic. Lord Shiva is sometimes called Bhootnath (which translates as Lord of ghosts/controller of spirits). It's said he who worships him could be relieved of such problems.

I'm no expert, but am going by what I've read and heard from people. If you do go to a temple and believe in God than this could one means of wearing such evil off if it does exist or even if it's just some difficult you could be experiencing. Think of it as a generic solution. :)
 
Z

Zarathu

Account Closed
waybread said:
Here's another interpretation of what happened with your house sale. You put your house on the market and conducted a ritual. The fact that your house sold quickly thereafter was independent of the ritual. There was no cause-and-effect. There was a coincidence. (Co-incident)
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That could be an interpretation. But when I used the prayer, I had a direct action within 35 minutes on three separate times. I have anecdotal evidence from everyone who has used the prayer and the ritual.

I think you just don't want to know about such things. And that's OK, if you want to call it superstition. But in my mind, its simply a way for you to cover your eyes from something that is too scary for you to consider the possibilities.

And the possibilities can be very scary if you don't have a solution. Its not scary to me because I understand the limitations of it. If you were not so concerned about the semantics of so-called anti-semitism in the AAB books, you could read A TREATISE ON WHITE MAGIC, which is all about the 15 rules for using White Magic. And as a part of that, it clearly delineates what white magic is and what black magic is, and how easy it is to avoid and deal with the dark forces that exist trying to drag the world back to dis-evolution.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
ShankarInTrouble said:
Waybread, if you have no exposure to black magick and exorcisms, you cannot drive home your point that they do not exist. Please google Chottanikara Bhagavathy Temple, and you'll find videos of exorcism and black magick. And let me tell all you guys one thing, I never claimed I was a victim until I saw it. When I went to some exorcists on this, on chanting of certain verses, my body starting involuntarily shaking and vibrating. I have also visited some people who pulled something black from out of my mouth from my stomach. I have done enough analysis on this and I have been diagonised of having black magick poisoned food in my stomach. The concept is that people mix a dead man's ash along with some mantra onto some food and give it to you. The Islam concept says that when his is done, a spirit (called jinn) gets into your body and unless and until the black magick poisoned food is removed(by vomiting) the jinn stays in the body and brings about the desired impact for which a person has been victimised. Please google more about what I'm telling and you'll get to understand all that I'm telling. The only unfortunate thing is that I've gone to four or five people on this and they couldn't get it out.(I'm saying this because I've responded positively to trials of exorcism. So, someone please refer me some place or person who can remedy this in India. Thanks!
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Shankar, if this is what you believe, I think these charlatans have tricked you with conjuring tricks. The US has stage magicians who are entertainers who pull things out of various people, as well. You might read up on the Forer Effect (also called the Barnum Effect, after an American circus owner with fake sideshow attractions who pre-conditioned his audiences to believe in what he wanted to show them.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect

Have you spoken with your medical doctor? Please explain your symptoms to your doctor, and ask for a referral to a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist. There is no shame in this-- in contrast to a young man with his future ahead of him to believe in these superstitions.

If you are vulnerable enough to believe in this stuff-- what is next for you in your life? The next time you hit a rough spot in your life, will you blame black magic on that, as well?

"Dead man's ash" ought to convince anyone else here who believes in black magic that its rituals are immoral and belong to some truly creepy people. Yes, their practices can involve using human remains. This has been going on since the days of ancient Egypt.

Shankar, who could possibly hate you enough to do this to you, anyway? Do you eat common meals at school? What could possibly be the food source? What could possibly be the explanation whereby ash+mantra=djinn=poor school performance? There is no explanation out there, but there are highly suggestable people.

Incidentally, if you haven't done so already you might enjoy reading the Sherlock Holmes mysteries.

[deleted possibly attacking comments by request - Moderator]
 
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Z

Zarathu

Account Closed
waybread said:
Shankar, if this is what you believe, I think you are very gullible. I am sorry to sound so harsh, but these charlatans have tricked you with conjuring tricks. ........
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You know.... all your arguments here would work the same way if you substituted "astrology" for black magic. Its the same argument that detractors use for putting down astrology.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Zarathu said:
That could be an interpretation. But when I used the prayer, I had a direct action within 35 minutes on three separate times. I have anecdotal evidence from everyone who has used the prayer and the ritual.

I think you just don't want to know about such things. And that's OK, if you want to call it superstition. But in my mind, its simply a way for you to cover your eyes from something that is too scary for you to consider the possibilities.

And the possibilities can be very scary if you don't have a solution. Its not scary to me because I understand the limitations of it. If you were not so concerned about the semantics of so-called anti-semitism in the AAB books, you could read A TREATISE ON WHITE MAGIC, which is all about the 15 rules for using White Magic. And as a part of that, it clearly delineates what white magic is and what black magic is, and how easy it is to avoid and deal with the dark forces that exist trying to drag the world back to dis-evolution.
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Zaruthu, you are going to believe what you want to believe, as well.

I know enough about such things to know that they are instances of what Jung called the collective shadow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology) If this is something you haven't studied, I highly recommend it. I have explored hermeticism and astrology to some extent, which brought me into contact with ancient black magic texts. One can see why Ptolemy thought to rationalize astrology in his day!

It fascinates me that my arguing for people to steer well clear of misuses of astrology invariably elicits charges that I must be afraid of something. While this might make the critic feel smugly superior, it is badly mistaken.

When I was a child and young adult (and thus highly impressionable, susceptable, and suggestable) I suffered badly from night terrors and fear of falling asleep. These terrors kept me awake for hours at night. (My parents allowed a nightlight, but refused to let me bother them with this fear.) Sometimes these nightly waking fears had an object, a particular fear based upon something I'd seen, or a vivid nightmare. At other times, it was more like an experience of the immensity and darkness of outer space, which would pull me into it and annihilate my consciousness if I didn't resist it with everything I had. I did experience this utter darkness as impersonal, yet definitely trying to "drag... [me] back to dis-evolution."

So I understand the concept of metaphorical Darkness from personal experience.

My parents were self-styled "free thinkers" so I didn't grow up with any religious faith (other than a weak secular Christianity) As a child I initially I learned to combat the night fears by singing songs to myself. Then I picked up information through attending Sunday school and church camp with friends, learned about God, and turned to prayer. Prayer definitely was a defense against the night fears.

To me, God is more than I will ever fathom, but this Divine Consciousness has been described by all major faiths as the good and the love that underlies the universe.

To an atheist, of course, this entire conversation is silly.

So this is what I would say to you, Shankar, Zarathu, and anyone else inclined to believe in disincarnate "dark forces that exist trying to drag the world back to dis-evolution." One is that they are a product of your own personal and the collective imagination. They are psychological shadow material. They have no reality outside the human skull, and you can't believe in the magnificence of Divine Consciousness and mysterious evil forces simultaneously.

Seriously. Try this as a thought experiment. Alternately put yourself in the experience of divine consciousness as goodness and then in the experience of black magic. Now try to hold the two simultaneously for more than a split second. It can't be done. So you choose the one you want.

Further, people do to some extent create their own reality through their thoughts, because we cannot comprehend reality in its totality. So we tend to select from our daily bombardment of sensory perceptions and incoming messages those "facts" and messages that validate our pre-conditioned thought patterns. If you believe in the existence of disincarnate evil forces, and sooner or later you will select for "evidence" that reinforces that belief. This isn't magic, but just how the human mind works.

There is enough "evil in the minds of men" to explain all of the wretched stuff going on in the world. We know enough about human psychology and culture to explain why people fear disincarnate evil forces. A commited belief in black magic is simply irrelevant.

I just think life goes a whole lot better if you focus on the power of Divine Consciousness as the principles of creativity, love, and ultimate wisdom.

There is no wisdom in buying into dark evil forces, whatever they might mean to you.

[deleted possibly attacking comments by request - Moderator]
 
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waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Zarathu said:
You know.... all your arguments here would work the same way if you substituted "astrology" for black magic. Its the same argument that detractors use for putting down astrology.
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No, of course it's not, or I wouldn't be here. I don't view astrology as a committed belief system. Does anybody? I constantly keep an open mind about whether it works or not. Don't you? Or does it function as a committed belief system for you, or matter of faith?

My big concern in this thread is values.
 
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Culpeper

Culpeper

Premium Member
The Saturnian: Profections are not like the progressions used by some modern astrologers. It is done by counting the signs around the chart beginning with the rising sign. The time from birth to 1st birthday is indicated by the rising sign. After the 1st birthday move to the next sign. The natives birthday is the change point. The ruler of the profected sign and planets in it are used to see if the year is favorable and what events may occur. Transits of those planets should also be considered.

In the native's chart with Saturn opposing the ruler of the ascendant in the 12th, difficulties can be expected. With the 12th house opposing the 6th this could well indicate black magic. A horary chart cast for the question could tell for sure. The change of profection to Aries indicates that the native can deal with this now but will have to find a magician in India to help. I cannot advise on it from North America.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Culpeper, black magic in one sense-- as a belief located between the ears. It doesn't exist "out there" independently of psychological projection.

The Nicholas Culpeper from whom you may have taken your nickname ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Culpeper , http://www.skyscript.co.uk/culpeper.html ) called Reason his brother. He was a doctor who used herbalism and astrology to heal people, not frighten them. He did much of his work for free or low cost.

He wrote, "Many a times I find my patients disturbed by trouble of Conscience or Sorrow, and I have to act the Divine before I can be the Physician. In fact our greatest skill lies in the infusion of Hopes, to induce confidence and peace of mind."

A given horoscopic placement such as the one you describe could have multiple meanings, the majority of which are far more sensible than a belief in black magic. Or maybe you would prefer to try the Ouija board or consult Madame Wanda.

And Shankar, you have a choice to make. You can succumb to your fears and pay money to a "magician" who-- for a fee, and preying on your suggestability-- will promise to rid you of your black magic.

Or, you can stand up straight, throw your shoulders back, and draw upon your courage and faith in the universe to support you. Otherwise you may spend the rest of your life in a fearful state, believing that someone has cursed you the next time you meet with adversity.

There are many realistic reasons why good students' grades/marks plummet, the least of which would be that this sort of superstition has any traction. Are you sure you understood the material to be tested on correctly? Did you speak with your teachers about the parts of the coursework you didn't understand? Did you ask for special help with assignments via a tutor? Or did you simply conclude that someone had used a dead man's ashes so that you-- and apparently only you-- would fail your studies?

[deleted possibly attacking comments by request - Moderator]
 
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poyi

poyi

Premium Member
I also believe in black magic does exist. Had supernatural experiences a few times for a long period of time. While I occasionally still hear magic being common used in certain countries, to name a few Indonesia, Thailand, India, many parts Africa, China, Taiwan, Japan, and plenty more in Western countries and you can buy equipments and books to study even. Golden Dawn which I recently thought of being the very creepy society is rather powerful still.

From my colleagues came from Africa, they often talked about that is necessary to avoid certain group of Africans as they all know of their ongoing practice of magics even in recent day. Guess what this African colleague her husband is a priest even she knew from her native land this thing truly still ongoing. Two of my patients, recently they had lived in Africa in the past and told me a few interesting stories about magics and magicians. One is Polish, and the other one is Aussie they used to live in Africa for work for years. They are both 60s to 70s plus. They are not dumb young people.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
I know that the real magic exists in the beautiful world that surrounds us when we care for it; in sublime music; in human love; in the kind touch of a hand; in the wonder of a leaf under a microscope; and for astrologers, the vastness and majesty of the night sky.

The only part of black magic that is real is what exists behind our eyeballs as a belief system. The rest is psychological projection, and oftentimes Jungian collective shadow material.

And you all have a choice. You can try to align yourself with divine consciousness, or align yourself with something unworthy of human dignity or even harmful to other people.

Poyi, none of what I wrote is to deny that belief in black magic is very strong in some cultures. This isn't to give it an objective existence.

Put your faith in God, however you define and understand this concept. Once you do that, black magic has no space.

[deleted possibly attacking comments - Moderator]
 
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T

The_Saturnian

Well-known member
The Saturnian: Profections are not like the progressions used by some modern astrologers. It is done by counting the signs around the chart beginning with the rising sign. The time from birth to 1st birthday is indicated by the rising sign. After the 1st birthday move to the next sign. The natives birthday is the change point. The ruler of the profected sign and planets in it are used to see if the year is favorable and what events may occur. Transits of those planets should also be considered.
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Thank you for the explanation Culpeper. Greatly appreciated. :) So Profections are not like progressions, but are similar in the sense that rather than studying the progressed chart on 'a day for a year' basis, profections are means of studying future trends from one sign to the next starting with the rising sign at birth. E.g. in my case I am Gemini rising so on my first birthday the following year shall be a 'Cancer year', the next, a 'Leo year' and so on so forth. Correct?
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Dr. Farr, by " qlippothic influences" I assume you refer to Jewish mysticism of this sort: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qliphoth

Again, this has no objective reality. It is a belief system, and not a mainstream Jewish belief system. Sad to say, a lot of contemporary interest in Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism is a big cultural rip-off of practices that Jewish tradition says should come only with maturity and years of more mainline Jewish scholarship.

When I described my experiences of night terrors to Zarathu, above-- which persisted until I was in my 30s-- I should have mentioned that eventually I realized that what frightened me wasn't "out there" but was "in here" inside my vivid imagination.

My religious situation is that I was raised by a post-Christian set of parents, self-styled "free-thinkers." I gained some Christian religious education as a child and read the entire Bible by the time I was 13, but was never baptised. In my 20s I converted to Judaism in order to marry my (ex) husband; and practiced Conservative Judaism for nearly 20 years. During my separation and divorce I became inactive in Judaism. I have a lot of interest in western mythology and northern heathen traditions. Out of the latter, I studied runes, and know that some people try to use them for magical purposes. To me they are a tool for self awareness, although I haven't studied them for a while now.

Are there disincarnate evil forces out there? No. If you want a biblical perspective, start with Genesis I:1, in which we have a mysterious God who works in darkness and chaos. But this darkness and chaos isn't evil, any more than than the night sky is evil. A beneficent Creator isn't evil.

If we want to see actual evil, we need look no further than the newspaper reports, or witness how people behave to one another in their worst moments. Sometimes, truthfully, we have to look inside our own hearts. Here is where the real demons lie in wait, not "out there."

Frankly, I don't think I am on the path to spiritual enlightenment. In the name of enlightenment, some religious extremists commit unspeakably evil acts. Kind of gives enlightenment a bad name. It has been said of those Jewish male esoteric scholars that it was their wife who had to be the bread-winner, put food on the table, and keep the roof over their heads. And yet esotericism was prized and her work was put-down as too material. Enlightenment can get selfish sometimes.

I hope I am on the path of living a decent life, being helpful to people, and appreciating the good gifts that surround me. The Philosopher's Stone is not on my bucket-list.

Two quotes:

Phillipians 4:8. "...whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."

'Lord Ram gave Hanuman a quizzical look and said, "What are you, a monkey or a man?" Hanuman bowed his head reverently, folded his hands and said, "When I do not know who I am, I serve You and when I do know who I am, You and I are One."' -Tulsidas Ramayana.

Doesn't leave room for black magic, does it?
 
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F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
waybread said:
The only part of black magic that is real is what exists behind our eyeballs as a belief system.

none of what I wrote is to deny that belief in black magic is very strong in some cultures.
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Although this is undoubtedly the answer, rational thought cannot always compete against the cultural understanding of eons and the eventual fears that have been invoked as a result of it.

During a U.S holiday, I visited New Orleans (before Katharina struck), which was one of the most impressionable and unforgettable experiences of my life. In the market there was a most beautiful Creole woman who, from her traditional dress, was obviously 'a wise woman', however that is interpretted. I wanted a photo of her as a memory of my New Orleans experience. That market was crowded, yet she saw what I was about to attempt and reacted very strongly towards me. I won't say that she gave me the evil eye but her look and actions were enough for me to stop
immediately. I meant no harm, yet she aroused a guilt in me. In that few moments she did frighten me and I probably bought the protection mask and beads not only as a souvenir!!:biggrin:

If a few moments can arouse such feelings, what effect can a whole cultural influence have?

Put your faith in God, however you define and understand this concept. Once you do that, black magic has no space
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Easily said, yet is still means placing one's faith in 'something' outside one's self that carries, provides, or even inflicts an influence upon how one's life is lived. There is always Go(o)d versus (d)evil and a chart could well show how cultural upbringing affects it.

I can't see any chart from the OP. but Jupiter and Neptune would be g(o)od; Saturn and Pluto (d)evil? Add harsh Moon and Mercury aspects and rational thought might fly out of the window.

Says she with Mercury in 9th square Pluto, and Saturn square Neptune.:whistling::biggrin:
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waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Frisiangal, nice to see you joining this thread!

By my comments I mean no disrespect towards people in cultures where black magic is a firm belief. However, if you look further, you will find members of those cultures themselves who are critical of it and don't believe in it. So we have to be careful, as outsiders, about what we assume.

Also, in all kinds of magical traditions, there is the Forer (Barnum) effect. People believe what they can be induced to believe. This doesn't mean that the Barnum circus sideshow freaks weren't actors, or that stage magicians don't use smoke and mirrors to make audiences believe things that aren't real.

Let's unpack your N'Awlins experience. Possibly this woman believed in black magic herself. Possibly she thought she could give you the "evil eye." Possibly she thought you would think so, too; and warned you away.

Why? Did you ask her? Maybe she expected a modeling fee. Maybe she just didn't care to have her photo taken by one more tourist. Maybe she believed that to take a photo of a person is, in some way, to steal her soul. And so on. And somebody made money off you by selling some tourism souvenirs called "protection masks and beads."

And what kind of "wise woman" would try to give an innocent tourist the "evil eye" in the first place? This doesn't sound wise to me.

So I don't dispute for a moment that these beliefs in black magic exist. As in, c'mon. Any student of history or culture would know this. When I was a kid I believed that the wicked witch of Disney's Snow White might come out of my closet at night and harm me. Disney made a lot of money off this film, incidentally.

The question relevant here is whether any of these beliefs are real, beyond the boundaries of belief systems, suggestable people, shadow material, and psychological projection. I say not.

If someone is an atheist, there are no djinns or disincarnate evil spirits or entities out there. If someone believes in God (however this concept appears in his faith) then simultaneously to believe in evil spirits or black magic profoundly disrespects this God. Somehow this God would seem less powerful, less magnificent, and committed to evil, to create and allow this sort of belief.

Judaism was not immune from all kinds of superstitions, ranging from idol-worship to Lilith, the Evil Eye, dybbuks, to golems.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14119-superstition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dybbuk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem

The Hassidic idea of God retracting Himself, vessels of divine sparks and so on is an interesting belief system that can be traced historically and culturally.

I don't think there was any "wisdom of the eons" in these beliefs, but from a cultural-historic perspective we can see how and why they developed amongst a perseceuted minority living amongst populations who themselves believed in black magic.

The longer I interact with my eclectic and biblically influenced spirituality, the less I understand God (divine consciousness) as something outside of humanity. Again, there is a lot of psychological projection in defining humans as miserable worms, and attributing anything powerful and magnificant to a celestial power. If God is everywhere, then humanity is part of what God is.

Namaste: "I respect the God in you." This doesn't mean that the ego recognizes this relationship. The ego creates enough trouble to explain most troubles in the world.

We can get into problems of evil actions, free will, and the rest of it if you like, but possibly on another thread.
 
Marinka

Marinka

Well-known member
Zarathu said:
So I started reading up on rituals and discovered that there are all kinds of rituals some sort of white and some dark. But any ritual that asks for something for the personal self is not on the white side.

And even though the prayer was to a representative of a supposedly white Deity, I was asking for my house to be sold. So I was asking for something for the personal self.

I bought this book on the Power of Wicca, and learned all kinds of things that I didn't want really to know about.


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Very thoughtfully said..

by asking for yourself, you open doors that energies can come through and while the energies may help you for a time, that is not their purpose.


 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
I have to believe that if "putting St. Jospeph in ground and saying a prayer every day" really worked for selling a house, the real estate industry would be all over this one. Imagine how a realtor's commissions would soar if s/he got all her Catholic clients to do this. One wonders, at the worst of the US housing bubble collapse, how many believers tried this charm and it didn't work.
 
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