Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

Senecar

Well-known member
Saturn return causes usually difficult situation. I have seen people with Saturn return going through major painful time or changes such as huge uncertainty in family relationship or job situation.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I am going to save further comments
and observations I have regarding OP's Saturn situation, until the OP returns here
and tells us what she thinks-based on her own experiences
-of what we posters to this thread, have had to say
regarding Saturn's influences in the OP's life.
nevertheless :smile:

that is a good news an aspects of saturn

if its doing good
then what could be more promising
Exactly
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
An interesting topic.

saturn is not debilated as such, gets debilated in aries.

sat in enemy sign leo 9th, good for admin aptitude and distant travels;

sat lord 3rd retro all the more strong malefic,
delaying luck-educ-travels-father under great stress,


sat retro towards cancer 9th turning to be sensitive

jup 5th aries trine sat leo 9th both for teaching-advisory-ministerial roles;
retro jup pisces trine elevated aspect over retro sat cancer 9th,

cancer-moon however inimical for scorpio asc, stress-delays again;

inimical moon-ketu elevated taurus 7th, creative-energetic-extra stubborn,
love for food-comforts, hotel management-banking,
prone to pain-injury-surgery abdominals, throat-teeth-thyroid;
stress delays in relationship and luck after marriage, ketu separative moreover;

sun-mer-rahu scorpio asc, research-occult aptitudes,magnetic personality,
sun ill health during infancy, separative in marriage,
sun-moon opp born around full moon, blurred thinking/confused.

rahu association aptitude for politics, rise-fall in life, need ancestor worship,

rahu debilated dark scorpio over-indulgence into the occult, to avoid;
debilation of rahu cancelled as venus lord of elevation own sign libra 11th,
gradual pace of growth in life;
sun-mer-rahu scorpio aspected by retro jup pisces and contained,
while promoting research-occult aptitudes;

sat leo 9th occult interests;

asc lord mars debilated cancer 8th, affecting health, suppressed anger;
prone to water accidents;
mars debilation cancelled by elevated aspect from retro jup pisces,
gradual pace of growth and health improvement;
debilated mars elevated aspect over cap 2nd protective of finances;


sat leo aspect own acq 3rd, promoting initiative-progress,
though may not be good for sibling health;

sat cancer too aspect own capricorn and protective;



sat coincidentally 9th lord from moon too, settling at 36+/thumb rule.


sat elevated aspect over venus-libra 11th promoting income-gains.
sat transit 3/6/11 from asc/moon good; sat transit 10th rise-fall in career;


sat though malefic could yet be positive for certain matters as above.


hope observations help the discussion and debate,

best regards,


kshantaram

Very nice input, sir. :biggrin:
 

Starsareround

Well-known member
Wow, how have I not seen this thread? I think my Saturn is quite bad (H12-I know it’s in its “joy” here but joy for who?!) Leo, conjunct Moon and Venus, Square MC. Out of sect. Anyway, I would love to strengthen my sense of discipline and healthy self critisism...if anyone has any suggestions on working with Saturn in Leo to get better results, I’d love to hear it...
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Wow, how have I not seen this thread? I think my Saturn is quite bad (H12-I know it’s in its “joy” here but joy for who?!) Leo, conjunct Moon and Venus, Square MC. Out of sect. Anyway, I would love to strengthen my sense of discipline and healthy self critisism...if anyone has any suggestions on working with Saturn in Leo to get better results, I’d love to hear it...

Check out here: :biggrin:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/deginf1.html#3
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Wow, how have I not seen this thread?
depends how often one visits our traditional board :smile:

I think my Saturn is quite bad (H12-I know it’s in its “joy” here but joy for who?!)
Leo, conjunct Moon and Venus, Square MC. Out of sect.
Anyway, I would love to strengthen my sense of discipline and healthy self critisism..
.if anyone has any suggestions on working with Saturn in Leo to get better results, I’d love to hear it...
useful to have natal chart to view
 

socrates

Well-known member
Welcome to the forum, Katie.

Yes, Saturn has no dignity by term using Egyptian terms as most traditional astrologers have chosen to do. Either way, he is dignified by face or decan. So not completely without dignity. You left out cadent.



That aspect is separating. Venus is separating from Saturn at the same time that Saturn, via retrograde motion, is separating from her. This implies an active disregard on their part of a previously established connection. They can still see each other (regard) but they are not seeking to connect.

In your chart, the only planet that is seeking to connect with Saturn is Jupiter, also retrograde.



Saturn rules the 3rd, but he also rules the 4th sign. I am super curious about your relationship with your family, especially siblings and father. Well, you already mentioned your father, and you did say



This is Saturn’s effect in your natal chart. As the ruler of your 3rd and 4th sign (even though not the 4th house) Saturn is completely incompetent. He is partially assisted because he is regarded by benefics ( Moon from Taurus, Venus from Libra and Jupiter from Aries, but Jupiter is in Saturn’s fall and not inclined to be much help for all that he’s chasing Saturn.)





This is a general perception but as you have already learned/demonstrated not an accurate one. Mainly because it is easy to forget that transiting Saturn and natal Saturn are not the same planet. Out of sect Saturn in Leo, retrograde, cadent, in feminine quadrant and bright degree is not the same as In Sect transiting Saturn in Capricorn in pitted degree. That is just an example, but I hope you get the idea.



Is it possible to have a transit that doesn’t do anything? Yes, if Saturn isn’t activated in your chart by profection and/or solar return. How else would it be possible that a Saturn transit to your DSC resulted in something good? If it should be in the 4th sign, which is Aquarius, and which is Saturn’s preferred domicile. As to the Moon? It is going to be really hard for Saturn to harm the Moon in Taurus. Further, we can’t really comment on transits without knowing the rest of what was going on at the time. This is the biggest reason that traditionally transits are like the very last consideration in predicting events in a native’s life.




When you looked at these squares and tied them to your life events, did you consider whether Saturn was making an inferior or superior square? How about reception? Did the squares perfect, and what were the other planets doing at the time?






Ok. But you said




Are you sure? Because it does sound like the dreaded Saturn return had Quite an effect on you. You do have natal Saturn in Leo, right? Just because you made it through the actual moment the transit was exact doesn’t mean the repercussions of it weren’t going to show up. As to losing out to people who were “more fun” where is Venus in your chart? Libra, right? and in the 11th house/12th sign? So Venus is the ruler of your 11th house, which also happens to be Saturn’s exaltation. Saturn is debilitated and cadent, and didn’t we already talk about how Venus is disregarding him? Are you seeing some sort of a thing here? Especially since the 11th house ruler is in the 12th sign of self-undoing? (And other stuff.)



Why? Because you are skipping a couple of steps in traditional methods to understand if transits are going to even have an “effect," amd of so what that effect will be.

His saturn is in 10th sign not 9th
 

socrates

Well-known member
Welcome to the forum, Katie.

Yes, Saturn has no dignity by term using Egyptian terms as most traditional astrologers have chosen to do. Either way, he is dignified by face or decan. So not completely without dignity. You left out cadent.



That aspect is separating. Venus is separating from Saturn at the same time that Saturn, via retrograde motion, is separating from her. This implies an active disregard on their part of a previously established connection. They can still see each other (regard) but they are not seeking to connect.

In your chart, the only planet that is seeking to connect with Saturn is Jupiter, also retrograde.



Saturn rules the 3rd, but he also rules the 4th sign. I am super curious about your relationship with your family, especially siblings and father. Well, you already mentioned your father, and you did say



This is Saturn’s effect in your natal chart. As the ruler of your 3rd and 4th sign (even though not the 4th house) Saturn is completely incompetent. He is partially assisted because he is regarded by benefics ( Moon from Taurus, Venus from Libra and Jupiter from Aries, but Jupiter is in Saturn’s fall and not inclined to be much help for all that he’s chasing Saturn.)





This is a general perception but as you have already learned/demonstrated not an accurate one. Mainly because it is easy to forget that transiting Saturn and natal Saturn are not the same planet. Out of sect Saturn in Leo, retrograde, cadent, in feminine quadrant and bright degree is not the same as In Sect transiting Saturn in Capricorn in pitted degree. That is just an example, but I hope you get the idea.



Is it possible to have a transit that doesn’t do anything? Yes, if Saturn isn’t activated in your chart by profection and/or solar return. How else would it be possible that a Saturn transit to your DSC resulted in something good? If it should be in the 4th sign, which is Aquarius, and which is Saturn’s preferred domicile. As to the Moon? It is going to be really hard for Saturn to harm the Moon in Taurus. Further, we can’t really comment on transits without knowing the rest of what was going on at the time. This is the biggest reason that traditionally transits are like the very last consideration in predicting events in a native’s life.




When you looked at these squares and tied them to your life events, did you consider whether Saturn was making an inferior or superior square? How about reception? Did the squares perfect, and what were the other planets doing at the time?






Ok. But you said




Are you sure? Because it does sound like the dreaded Saturn return had Quite an effect on you. You do have natal Saturn in Leo, right? Just because you made it through the actual moment the transit was exact doesn’t mean the repercussions of it weren’t going to show up. As to losing out to people who were “more fun” where is Venus in your chart? Libra, right? and in the 11th house/12th sign? So Venus is the ruler of your 11th house, which also happens to be Saturn’s exaltation. Saturn is debilitated and cadent, and didn’t we already talk about how Venus is disregarding him? Are you seeing some sort of a thing here? Especially since the 11th house ruler is in the 12th sign of self-undoing? (And other stuff.)



Why? Because you are skipping a couple of steps in traditional methods to understand if transits are going to even have an “effect," amd of so what that effect will be.

Youre tryng to make her fit the chart
 

socrates

Well-known member
I'm not sure you want Saturn particularly strong.

This chart is my own natal:

ql3oPvc.png


As you can see, Saturn is quite strong here. He also sits in the twelfth house, where he supposedly 'delights' at working mischief.

The strong Saturn vs. strong Moon opposition is probably the keynote to my chart. I've always had an emotional resistance to accepting the responsibilities of adult life. I am a terrible procrastinator, and may undermine myself due to that trait. I sort tasks not by urgency but by intellectual interest. Recently, I've been forced to face responsibilities, by illness, as the sixth house Moon suggests.

One gift a strong Saturn in 12 may have given me is that I am relatively calm facing the prospect of my own death. I don't have a timeline in months or years, but I am sick with the illness that will inevitably kill me. And I find I don't mind terribly. Jupiter actually rules 12 here, giving me a philosophical take on my own undoing.

Mercury is also strong, and in the fifth house doesn't help much. I am rather mercurial, an eternal dilettante in astrology and many other things. I pick my intellectual interests up and put them aside until I pick them up again.

Fortuna, too, is in 12. I've always been an intense loner and a very private person. IRL I am a lawyer, and I can keep your secrets. When I was in junior high, I devised a cryptographic script, inspired in part by the Voynich manuscript. I have used it constantly from the early 1970s to the present. I will leave behind several thousand pages in cypher manuscripts, diaries., poems, and journals of various kinds.

Strong Saturn, in other words, may be a dubious blessing. And weak Saturn may have its advantages, especially when aided by Jupiter, as Ebenia suggested.

saturn rises by whole sign house
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
His saturn is in 10th sign not 9th


Some quick observations:
-natal Saturn is modified by being in a bright degree (mentioned by TSMall)
-natal Saturn is in the sign-monomoiria of Libra, so natal Saturn is in exaltation by monomoiria
-natal Saturn is the most elevated planet in the chart
-natal Saturn is in its Face (mentioned by TSMall)
-natal Saturn is not afflicted by any square or opposition aspect from either Mars or from the benefics
-natal Saturn is conjunct the benefic star Talitha, which in turn channels in the influences of the Ursa Major (Great Bear or "Big Dipper") constellation, a most potent influence

I believe (ie, I would delineate) Saturn is not in net detriment in the natal chart, because the factors listed above would outweight (for me) the detriments of sign placement and sect (and occidentality)

(Just an additional note, although relating to a traditional but non-Western astrological doctrine: from the traditional Vedic perspective, Saturn retrograde would be considered = to exaltation, Saturn in a "kendra", ie, angular house-in this case the 10th whole sign house-Saturn would be considered transformed into a functional benefic, and, regarding sect, Vedic astrology considers Saturn a nocturnal planet, so it would also be considered in Vedic to be in sect)
"..10th WHOLE SIGN house..." :smile:




saturn rises by whole sign house


.
 

sinhtheslumberingdragon

Well-known member
I'm not sure you want Saturn particularly strong.

This chart is my own natal:

ql3oPvc.png


As you can see, Saturn is quite strong here. He also sits in the twelfth house, where he supposedly 'delights' at working mischief.

The strong Saturn vs. strong Moon opposition is probably the keynote to my chart. I've always had an emotional resistance to accepting the responsibilities of adult life. I am a terrible procrastinator, and may undermine myself due to that trait. I sort tasks not by urgency but by intellectual interest. Recently, I've been forced to face responsibilities, by illness, as the sixth house Moon suggests.

One gift a strong Saturn in 12 may have given me is that I am relatively calm facing the prospect of my own death. I don't have a timeline in months or years, but I am sick with the illness that will inevitably kill me. And I find I don't mind terribly. Jupiter actually rules 12 here, giving me a philosophical take on my own undoing.

Mercury is also strong, and in the fifth house doesn't help much. I am rather mercurial, an eternal dilettante in astrology and many other things. I pick my intellectual interests up and put them aside until I pick them up again.

Fortuna, too, is in 12. I've always been an intense loner and a very private person. IRL I am a lawyer, and I can keep your secrets. When I was in junior high, I devised a cryptographic script, inspired in part by the Voynich manuscript. I have used it constantly from the early 1970s to the present. I will leave behind several thousand pages in cypher manuscripts, diaries., poems, and journals of various kinds.

Strong Saturn, in other words, may be a dubious blessing. And weak Saturn may have its advantages, especially when aided by Jupiter, as Ebenia suggested.
Saturn falling from angles, retrograde (!!!!), and dignified

That's not good. It's strong essentially, but it's inclined to be very malefic, especially because of the RX - RX Saturn is particularly evil.
The strong opposition with moon as well, looks like it will bring some diseases I believe.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
By Manilius decan saturn is in the face of cancer, another detriment; I have it angular (by whole sign) but that is really no benefit for the effects here, which I too (like the previous poster) consider likely malefic. Strong moon opposite strong saturn does not look very favorable (to me) I do see some redemption for saturn by its conjunction with sagittarian star Kaus Australis, but I don’t think enough to overcome what seems to be Saturn’s malefic trend in this chart.
 

sinhtheslumberingdragon

Well-known member
By Manilius decan saturn is in the face of cancer, another detriment; I have it angular (by whole sign) but that is really no benefit for the effects here, which I too (like the previous poster) consider likely malefic. Strong moon opposite strong saturn does not look very favorable (to me) I do see some redemption for saturn by its conjunction with sagittarian star Kaus Australis, but I don’t think enough to overcome what seems to be Saturn’s malefic trend in this chart.
I would consider it in the first as well, but not angular - by primary motion it has receeded away from first, by over 10 degrees. If it was closer (say ac was at, 9 cap) I would have considered it angular, but it's likely for the best that it's not.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I would consider it in the first as well, but not angular - by primary motion it has receeded away from first, by over 10 degrees. If it was closer (say ac was at, 9 cap) I would have considered it angular, but it's likely for the best that it's not.
You are not only a traditionalist expert, but very precise as well; although I would still consider it angular for delineative purposes, in fact I cannot argue with your precisely accurate point!
 
Last edited:

socrates

Well-known member
Top