Can You Really Predict Death?

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

It's a morbid topic, unless you transmute it into a prediction of when to stop doing "business as usual"
and attempt to find a more life-affirming path.
If it's too late for that, I agree with you--no betting on how long the process of dying will take.

[An attempt at humor to lighten things up]--> When informed by his Astrologer that he would would reincarnate as a Pisces-Sun,
the Aries-Sun individual burst into tears! :crying:
Here's an early Bob Dylan lyric:
"Those who aren't busy living, are busy dying."
Bob Dylan is not an astrologer :smile:
The topic is morbid solely for western readers
otherwise
common sense informs us that death is inevitable
those who are interested in prediction of their own death
are entitled to consult astrologers with the necessary skills
as well as obviously
to provide those astrologers with an accurate time of birth

 

waybread

Well-known member
It's a morbid topic, unless you transmute it into a prediction of when to stop doing "business as usual" and attempt to find a more life-affirming path. If it's too late for that, I agree with you--no betting on how long the process of dying will take.
[An attempt at humor to lighten things up]--> When informed by his Astrologer that he would would reincarnate as a Pisces-Sun, the Aries-Sun individual burst into tears! :crying:
Here's an early Bob Dylan lyric: "Those who aren't busy living, are busy dying."

David, Bob Dylan must have meant this metaphorically, not literally.

Today I visited a cousin in a nursing home. She's about 70 and has had a stroke on top of rheumatoid arthritis (the crippling kind of arthritis.) She is barely mobile on her own, and stayed in bed during the entire visit. Mentally, she is really sharp, but is mostly confined to the four walls of her room. I think she would give anything to be "busy living." As it is, my cousin's ability to live fully is severely circumscribed by her body.

In her youth, this cousin was an accomplished rider and horse trainer.

She was an only child, now single for most of her life, and thus with a very limited family to visit her. So think about being very lonely at the end of life, as well.

I find the lack of realism about serious illness and the process of dying to be a big reason why at least most astrologers have no business dabbling in death prediction. This isn't just some metaphor that my cousin-- or millions of seniors in similar situations-- live through.

The older I get the less I'm put off by thinking of disability, dying, and death as morbid subjects. They are lived reality for many people now, and eventually will become reality for us all.

Maybe the best most of us can do is to visit that family member or neighbour in the nursing home and try to make their day a little better. I think that is far more sincere and helpful than playing with death prediction.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I interpret Dylan's line differently. You can be sick, in bed, told you only have much time left, and be "busy living" right up until the end. Someone can be perfectly healthy, plenty of time left, and dead inside, with no hopes or dreams, and "busy dying". The last thing people battling a terminal illness need is someone looking at them as if they're as good as dead--not if they're busy living.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Since death is the inevitable end of life then everyone is "terminally ill" :smile:
Obviously the elderly - as the years of their lives passed
have outlived tens of hundreds of millions of those much younger than themselves

Not everyone dies of illness, so not everyone is destined to become terminally ill.
Doctors predict an approximate date of death due to terminal illness based on physical evidence. Some Astrologers predict a specific date (and possibly manner) of death based only on Astrological theory. The latter prediction is best interpreted as a warning of a serious, life-threatening vulnerability that can only be avoided by making necessary changes in lifestyle--a "Red Alert".
Also, it's possible that "death" is the end of one VERSION of a life, and the beginning of a new one, as most religions claim.
 
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ashriia

Well-known member
So here's my take.

Can astrology predict death. Yes it can. I don't know about the traditional methods since that's not something I study. However if you study enough death related charts incorporating asteroids, you will begin to see patterns. Those patterns will become a method, to determining death.

Should death prediction be given by an astrologer to a client, NO. Big effing NO. It's totally unethical.

I recently saw a 13 year old girl get run over by a car. She died instanty. Do you think if this girl knew she was going to die in the first part of 2017, she would have been living out her life like any other kid? Or would fear of death been so paralyzing that it would have prevented her from seeing or experiencing the beauty that life had to offer her?

Another example, if you believe in reincarnation as I do. Why do you think we have no memory of former lives? Sure we can say we think we might have been such and such a person, but since it's still speculation with no way of knowing for certain, so we can still fully live in our current lives without hindrance. Say you knew you killed people in your past life for absolute certain, don't you think that knowledge would be an extreme handicap in your current life? I think these are the same reasons death prediction should not be given to the native/client, regardless of skilled/learned you might be. Sharing the information on how to do this the same thing - it's unethical. I know we live in an ego based world where people want to toot their own horns. But as an astrologer dealing with actual human people, with real emotions/fears; there should be areas that are simply off limits. It's better to help people, than harm them. If you think something might happen in the world at large that's a different matter, it's going to always be taken as hypothetical so there is really no harm. -important to know your audience as well!
 

waybread

Well-known member
Hopefully all of us develop views of what happens after we die that allow us to face our end with equanimity-- assuming there's enough left of our minds to do so.

Hopefully all of us have our financial and personal affairs in order. Hopefully we take the time now to tell the people we care about that we love them. These shouldn't be matters left to the very end of life.

Doctors generally deal with probabilities. They will say something like, "Most people with your condition can expect to live 6 months to 2 years," or some such. Unless the end is clearly within days or hours, generally they don't give a specific date or limited time-frame, which is what prognosticative methods in astrology purport to do.

Medical error in terms of treatments is indeed a problem, but it is absolutely not the same as predicting length-of-life. This is an "apples and oranges" issue.

ashriia, I agree with your point. If we suppose for the sake of argument that astrologers can predict death (although there are many egregious errors here, as well,) then there is the separate quandary of whether it is ethical to do so. I cannot think of any real-world instance where this would be an ethical practice.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Should you do it? - It depends on each and every case.
One could ask same question to all those events in life - should you predict when someone will get married?, divorce?, retire? or lose job? -
what if the native will get depressed by the prediction he will get divorce, or lose job, and kill himself?
Should you then do any prediction at all?
Exactly - it is not unusual for members to request information regarding astrological prediction
of for example their possible future relationship prospects.
Asking a relationship Horary question is a popular method of seeking answers/advice to such questions :smile:
Obviously then, because anyone may well be justifiably depressed/upset
if their future relationship prospects are read as nil
/negligible/unlikely
- and given that not everyone believes in astrology and many are simply curious -
and since many however have implicit belief
that the astrologer in particular
is qualified to tell them their future relationship prospects


THEN

(A) are astrologers on - for example - this forum
morally justified
in predicting
that future relationship prospects are nil/negligible/unlikely
if that is their opinion of the chart in question?



AND IF

an astrologer may have led a client to believe
in a definite prospect/likelihood of a relationship
within the next few months or so


AND THEN NO SUCH PROSPECTS OCCURRED

and the client became depressed

Then

(B) are astrologers on this forum morally justified
in having predicted that future relationship prospects are excellent?

because it seems hypocrital for astrologers to claim on this forum
that predicting death is somehow "immoral"/"unethical"
while merrily predicting house relocations
births of children
whether one is likely to be wealthy
whether a particular career is better than another
and so on
 

david starling

Well-known member
Exactly - it is not unusual for members to request information regarding astrological prediction
of for example their possible future relationship prospects.
Asking a relationship Horary question is a popular method of seeking answers/advice to such questions :smile:
Obviously then, because anyone may well be justifiably depressed/upset
if their future relationship prospects are read as nil
/negligible/unlikely
- and given that not everyone believes in astrology and many are simply curious -
and since many however have implicit belief
that the astrologer in particular
is qualified to tell them their future relationship prospects


THEN

(A) are astrologers on - for example - this forum
morally justified
in predicting
that future relationship prospects are nil/negligible/unlikely
if that is their opinion of the chart in question?



AND IF

an astrologer may have led a client to believe
in a definite prospect/likelihood of a relationship
within the next few months or so


AND THEN NO SUCH PROSPECTS OCCURRED

and the client became depressed

Then

(B) are astrologers on this forum morally justified
in having predicted that future relationship prospects are excellent?

because it seems hypocrital for astrologers to claim on this forum
that predicting death is somehow "immoral"/"unethical"
while merrily predicting house relocations
births of children
whether one is likely to be wealthy
whether a particular career is better than another
and so on

I wouldn't equate death with any of those things.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I do see JA's point though. Many on this forum predict and give opinions on potentially life altering issues for people; and some will be very keen on taking the astrologer's advice. Why then is death exempted from this?

This is a separate issue from death predictions and there accuracy.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I do see JA's point though. Many on this forum predict and give opinions on potentially life altering issues for people; and some will be very keen on taking the astrologer's advice. Why then is death exempted from this?

This is a separate issue from death predictions and there accuracy.

Well, those other issues are survivable--that's why death is in a separate category.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Well, those other issues are survivable--that's why death is in a separate category.

True. But what if the person is desirous of knowing about their death? I've not encountered anyone who would give out death readings as a staple of their practice. People request them, or show some desire in knowing about it. So why would this be denied?

A possible solution is to dissuade any talks of death predictions, but then the person might be adamant anyway. What then? Terminate the reading? On what grounds? Would it still be unethical if there was consent?
 

david starling

Well-known member
True. But what if the person is desirous of knowing about their death? I've not encountered anyone who would give out death readings as a staple of their practice. People request them, or show some desire in knowing about it. So why would this be denied?

A possible solution is to dissuade any talks of death predictions, but then the person might be adamant anyway. What then? Terminate the reading? On what grounds? Would it still be unethical if there was consent?

Just phrase it differently: "I can't predict death, only certain dates on which serious accidents and/or physical attacks or a vulnerability to life-threatening health conditions are most likely to occur." I'm saying, give the person asking something to go on, not just "Lights out, on such and such a date".
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Just phrase it differently: "I can't predict death, only certain dates on which serious accidents and/or physical attacks or a vulnerability to life-threatening health conditions are most likely to occur." I'm saying, give the person asking something to go on, not just "Lights out, on such and such a date".

I haven't been following this conversation closely but I doubt the "Lights out, on such and such a date" is the mainstream approach to bringing up death in a reading. (privately it might be a different story)
 

david starling

Well-known member
I haven't been following this conversation closely but I doubt the "Lights out, on such and such a date" is the mainstream approach to bringing up death in a reading. (privately it might be a different story)

It reminds me of those old movies, where the Gypsy woman reads a guys Palm, then gets upset and hands him back his money! :crying:
 

waybread

Well-known member
People request death predictions out of fear of dying, fear of a loved one's dying ,prurient curiosity, and hopes for an inheritance. There are all kinds of problems with addressing any one of these. You can scare the bejeezus out of a vulnerable. frightened person. You can seriously invade a patient's privacy. You can play into the hands of unscrupulous relatives hoping to snag granny's inheritance.

And you might be dead wrong in your prediction. Even if you believe you have a sound method, it's easy to misread a chart, have an incorrect birth time, or simply not have your method pan out this time around.

People who imagine death to be just another type of life event have never been around a dying person. Naivete about dying does not an argument for death prediction make.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
People who imagine death to be just another type of life event have never been around a dying person. Naivete about dying does not an argument for death prediction make.

Everything else you say is sound but this. I've personally seen the degeneration of my dying grandmother firsthand. I was there the all throughout her final stages, taking care of her and driving her to the hospice. I was there the night prior to her death when she was shaking and could barely open her eyes.

This does not deter me from doing death predictions if I were to develop/find a decent enough technique that could speak to it. (Nothing I'm interested in learning at the moment though)

But then I've been interested in death for the longest while and wouldn't mind a career that is surrounded it.
 
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Senecar

Well-known member
People who imagine death to be just another type of life event have never been around a dying person. Naivete about dying does not an argument for death prediction make.

A famous writer said "Death is not the end, but a part of life." He became more famous and respected after that, I believe. There are also huge part of population who believe death is not something to fear, but be faced, prepared and dealt with.

Anyhow, somehow I feel the OP is not about whether it is morally right or wrong to predict death. The OP was about whether it is technically possible to predict it.

There is no need to bringing in whole load of negative side of death with emotional blackmail - I think it is more harmful to people who are in death bed or dying than anything. Because it will make them feel more depressed and afraid of death.
 

wilsontc

Staff member
astrology only, to All

All,

Please keep the discussion to astrology and astrologers predicting death. For deeper philosophical discussions of the nature of death itself, go to a non-astrological Forum.

Back on topic,

Tim
 

waybread

Well-known member
Re: astrology only, to All

Conspiracy theorist, I have to ask if you have a strong 8th house! 8th house people do seem to think about death more than most people. I personally draw the line at death prediction, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post.

I have no problem with Dr. Farr's practice of indicating critical times in a person's life, which is open-ended.

But to draw an analogy between the astrologer's having experience of the dying process and other types of advice giving: is it wise to advise people on careers if the astrologer has no background in the types of jobs out there and their required qualifications? Alternatively I sometimes read charts for medical astrology questions, but I try to indicate that I am not a medical professional and that it is wise to consult a doctor.

Senecar, living as I do in a community with a lot of seniors, and where we have lost a dozen friends and neighbours within the past 10 years, I hope I have developed metaphysical views that will take me through my own death when the time comes. But please recognize that death is seldom pretty, and it can involve a lot of physical and emotional suffering. That isn't fear-mongering. It's a simple fact.

Yes, death is an inevitable part of life, but it isn't like the other parts of life. Trying to paste a happy-smiley face on human suffering isn't a nice thing to do, either.

Anyone interested in learning astrological death prediction methods will find them, but please understand that they are not entirely accurate. When consulting with vulnerable and perhaps frightened patients or loved ones, it is not excusable to make a mistake in a death clock forecast.
 
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blackbery

Well-known member
People who are afraid of death don't talk about death. They somehow think it's not going to happen to them so they often don't make wills, don't follow their dreams as they all think they have plenty of time.

With Neptune in 8th house with a grand water trine, I've been fascinated with death since I was a teenager. Not out of fear but out of curiosity. I've read numerous testimonies from people who have experienced NDE, read various religious texts about death. It's nothing to fear. That's why people die often when planets tenant their 8th house, particularly Jupiter as death is often a release.

I've had many dreams of dead people, famous people I don't even know. I had to look up their names to find out who they were.

If death were more open in Western society, there wouldn't be all this fear surrounding it.

I would love to know when I'm going to die as I have a 'bucket list' and cannot fulfill many of them right now due to financial restraints.But if I knew when I was going to die, then I could plan to do at least a couple of them by racking up credit cards, etc since I wouldn't be around to worry about the bills. :wink:

If a person visits an astrologer and asks for a death prediction, what's wrong
with that? You are implying that astrologers are going to go around making
death predictions to those who never asked! Or that an astrologer will go about telling 'unscrupulous' relatives when their family members are going
to kick the bucket so what.......that the relatives can plan when they will
get their inheritance??? Your comments make no sense.

Some people like myself don't view death as the big taboo subject and can
discuss it openly and maturely.

Maybe you have to have planets in 8th to understand this.:whistling:



People request death predictions out of fear of dying, fear of a loved one's dying ,prurient curiosity, and hopes for an inheritance. There are all kinds of problems with addressing any one of these. You can scare the bejeezus out of a vulnerable. frightened person. You can seriously invade a patient's privacy. You can play into the hands of unscrupulous relatives hoping to snag granny's inheritance.

And you might be dead wrong in your prediction. Even if you believe you have a sound method, it's easy to misread a chart, have an incorrect birth time, or simply not have your method pan out this time around.

People who imagine death to be just another type of life event have never been around a dying person. Naivete about dying does not an argument for death prediction make.
 
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