What is wrong with my bladder??? Help needed :)

Hello everyone

I am so happy to find you since I had no one to talk to about my horaries which I love so much!

Anyways, I have had a problem with my bladder for some time now (since 2016 September), for no apparent reason. I have had the problem to find a doctor for it (everyone is dismissing it because there are no infections, I have done urine tests, and so on, but no further serious tests). I urinate like 15 times a day and keep returning after I was in the bathroom like 15 min ago.

Now I am scared that is perhaps something more serious. I am in search of another doc, but in the meantime, I was looking at the horary and am very concerned..

So, my question is: what is wrong with my bladder (in sense, like I hope it is not a cancer of some sort or anything serious like that)?

Date: 19, november 2017
Place: Belgrade, Serbia
Time: 00:12 h

This is the chart I have done with Regiomontanus house system:

https://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi...=gw&sday=30&smon=5&syr=2018&hsy=5&rs=0&add=32

ASC: 23' 42'' Virgo

I am a beginner, so bear with me I have read somewhere that 1 house is health, and 6th the disease? So, according to this chart, I am signified with Mercury at the end of the 3rd house (so interpreted in 4th?), and with Neptune in my 6th house (that is what is worrying me!). Maybe my problem has an indirect problem with something else then bladder (but is effecting on it)?

Moon is in Sagittarius 2'38'' - combust with the Sun from Scorpio 26'51'' (do we consider it combust if it is in another sign at the end like this?).

Moon is applying square to Neptune (I am guessing bad news)
Moon will conjunct Mercury and Saturn till the end of the sign (Saturn also being bad news, delays?).

All in all, that's where I am at now, stuck Cannot make any sense of it. What do you guys think???

All help is highly appreciated!


Vanja

Please forgive this non-astro answer.
There may be nothing very wrong with your bladder. It is fairly common that there is inflammation of the bladder which increases urinary frequency as you describe. The inflammation is usually caused by diet and often doesn't show up much until you are a bit older. So if you are younger, they may not be even be looking for this.
I would strongly suggest your seeing a urologist. They will recognize it, if it is this.

Your chart didn't come up: you can't link a chart from your file at Astrodienst. See if you can save it to your computer, then upload it here as a clickable thumbnail. Otherwise try linking it from imgur.com.

Can we rule out possible causes like a lot of beer-drinking, having several children, eating a lot of sugary foods?

Your bladder is an 8th house/Scorpio matter, but yes-- the 6th is the general health indicator.

Soo happy that you answered! )) thank u! ))

here is the chart:

https://imgur.com/a/QXRHomf

Yes, you can rule out drinking (don't drink alcohol at all, I have no children, haven't had serious operations, I have done urinal tests - free of bacteria, no inflammation - thank you IleneK ). In fact, I have been to two urologists, until now... Well, I do have a sweet tooth, but not too much.
Next week I have an appointment with another urologist so I'll c what he says.

I feel the cold from the waist down intensely for a long time now (I sit at the desk for 12h shifts (maybe some connection to it)...

Do I look at 8th house (of the bladder) or 6th of illness Waybread? Or both hehe
I was reading about the ruler of the hour, sign,... Didn't quite understand why do we need that if we are using the significators of the question and the quested "thing", so to say??

I have read that my Natal chart is also of interest if some points were to conjunct? Like Ascedent or such (or am I mistaken, is it only valid for natal planets)? Here's my natal chart:

https://imgur.com/a/3PxHAjj

Happy I have someone to talk to abt this!



Vanja

vanja, I have to stress that I am not a medical professional, merely an amateur astrologer with an interest in medical astrology. So I always have to recommend that you discuss your situation with a licensed medical professional.

I note that your horary chart is dated for November 19, 2017. If this is when you first asked the question, then this is the right chart to use. If not, please post the correct one. Also, I notice that your natal chart gives your birth time as 1:00 p.m. Astrologers get suspicious of times rounded to the hour, as in astrology, timing is everything. Is this actually your correct birth time, or an estimate? It's OK if it is an estimate, I would just like to know either way.

Traditional astrologers do look for the ruler of the hour. I think these days, most of us don't.

The first house is your body. The 6th house relates to illness and health.

Trads might not use combustion if it is out-of-sign. I think it might have an effect, but allowing for the sign differences.

One technique I use are the Ebertin anatomical degrees, named for astrologers who devoted a lot of effort to medical astrology. Sometimes they don't help, but sometimes the problem described by the person shows a match between the degree and the involved part of the body. https://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-information/degree-anatomical-correlations.php

Scorpio and the 8th house rule the eliminative and sexual organs.

In your horary chart, the 8th house is ruled by Mars, and Mars shows up again in your natal 6th house of illnesses. Mars does rule inflammation, which is common with bladder problems, and it's at the Ebertin degree that relates to the kidneys. Since the kidneys process urine and send it to the bladder, this might be something to ask your doctor about.

In your horary chart, you have 3 Scorpio planets. Two relate to male organs, but the one at 26 Scorpio relates to the perineum. Sometimes in women frequent urination is related to weak muscles of the pelvic floor, and there are physical therapy exercises to strengthen them. Talking to a female physiotherapist might be helpful.

This is taking longer than I thought, so I have to run now, but will come back to this thread later today.

IleneK said:

Please forgive this non-astro answer.
There may be nothing very wrong with your bladder.
It is fairly common that there is inflammation of the bladder
which increases urinary frequency as you describe.
The inflammation is usually caused by diet and often doesn't show up much
until you are a bit older. So if you are younger, they may not be even be looking for this.
I would strongly suggest your seeing a urologist.
They will recognize it, if it is this.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind our is an amateur astrology learning forum

intended as a place for practice
many posters have little or no astrological experience
so consider getting advice from an experienced professional astrologer
for example https://www.bendykes.com/product-category/questions/

Vanja, just a few more points from an amateur--

I've come up with a few possibilities, not a medical diagnosis.

Have your doctors ruled out diabetes? (Venus-Jupiter, frequent urination, cold legs) I don't have blood sugar problems, but even so I find that if I eat refined sugar, I have more frequent urination. You might try cutting back on sugar in your diet, if you are not doing this already. Do walking and more frequent movement help?

How is your stress level? (nervousness increases need to urinate, Mars=stress)

With Mars in Libra, there is some indication that the kidneys are involved. Mars square Pluto suggests a kidney infection. Has your doctor ruled this out?

(My sources are Diane L. Cramer, Dictionary of Medical Astrology, Jane Ridder-Patrick, Handbook of Medical Astrology, and Eileen Nauman, Medical Astrology.)

Something else to consider is whether something internally might be pressing on your bladder, like an enlarged uterus. This might be caused by uterine fibroids, for example. Really heavy menstrual periods are another symptom of fibroids.

I had trouble with your horary chart determining whether the cusp of your 6th house was at the end of Aquarius or the beginning of Pisces. This might make a difference.

I hope you can feel better soon, and that you will report back if you get a good medical diagnosis.

Dear Waybread

I understand that you are not a doc and that this is all in the purpose of studying medical horary I love astrology so that's why I turn to it in this difficult time for some enlightenment...

Yes, this horary is the first time I have asked the question. As far as my natal chart goes, to the best of my knowledge, this is the time of my birth.

"Trads might not use combustion if it is out-of-sign." (what is trads? I am self-taught English beginner, so excuse my ignorance ). Do we use combustion if it is out-of-sign?

I have done blood work, my kidneys are fine, no diabetes. I am in despair concerning my job, though, and VERY stress out because of it. I have suffered some illnesses since 2010 due to the stress (as it turned out to be).

I have done hysteroscopy on 1st of March this year (to extract a polyp in the uterus) when I did all the tests. No mioma, no prolapse of the uterus (normal muscles of the pelvic floor).

*I am waiting for the end of the year to quit the job (waiting for some voluntary program for dismissal wage that is held every year). Afterwards, I don't know what will I do, since the job market in my country is in a very bad shape (as the country too), hens all the stress because I have a huge mortgage on the apartment (which I will probably lose).

Yes, the movement and exercise do help (I am cold only when sitting for long periods of time - which I do at work for my 12 hours shifts). I have quit going to the pool to swim because I thought the there might be some connection to it (hence I got some kg extra). But I think I will go back to swimming because I desperately need some exercise.

The cusp of the 6th is at 29' 46'' Aquarius (I think since the chart says that the 12th begins at Leo 29'46'').

I have read that we use the 4th house as the end result for our question? So, having Saturn in it, promises slow recovery and problems, I presume? What is your view, when will I get better? Is this condition treatable?

I will most surely inform you of any progress

Thank you soo much for your kindness and that you care! )))

@ JUPITERASC - Thank you, I am glad that I have found this place )) I understand that we practice here..


Vanja

Vanja, thanks for the feedback.

By "trads" I meant traditional western astrologers. I practice mostly modern western astrology in natal chart readings, but am more traditional in horary chart readings. Your English is good.

You seem to have done a lot of research on the possible causes for your symptoms.

Would you mind posting a few more charts? As best as you can determine the date for the onset of this health problem, your natal chart with (1) transits, (2) progressions (the normal secondary progressions,) and (3) solar arcs for this date. Astrodienst has a feature that lets you combine all 3, but the charts are a lot easier to read it you post them separately.

These may show something that we're not picking up with the horary and natal charts.

I think IleneK gave you good advice when she suggested you see a urologist. Also you might try a physiotherapist to see if you can strengthen the muscles of the pelvic floor. This won't cure a problem related to some kind of infection, but it should help you to hold urine for longer periods.

There are two ways to consider the 4th house in a medical horary. One is your basic 4th house. The other is the turned fourth house, counting 4 houses from your 6th house of illness and health. We start the counting with the 6th house as #1, so the 4th from the 6th is house #10. It is ruled by Venus, which would suggest issues of female organs or sugar. On the other hand the radix (root) chart's 4th house looks very different. So I think it's a good idea to search more into what was going on when your health problem started.

Sometimes it's hard to put a date on a health problem that creeps up slowly; but you may recall more vividly when frequent urination changed from an inconvenience to something you knew was a problem. You can use that date, if necessary.

Both your horary and natal chart suggest a Venus-Jupiter connection, but that's not enough so far as I know for a proper explanation.

Vanja said:

Yes, the movement and exercise do help (I am cold only when sitting for long periods of time - which I do at work for my 12 hours shifts). I have quit going to the pool to swim because I thought the there might be some connection to it (hence I got some kg extra). But I think I will go back to swimming because I desperately need some exercise.

Click to expand...

Interesting. So basically going to the bathroom every 15 min forces you to do the necessary exercise.

muchacho said:

Interesting. So basically going to the bathroom every 15 min forces you to do the necessary exercise.

Click to expand...

I could hardly say that going to the bathroom is any kind of exercise.

Dear Waybread


Here is the transits for 2016 (approximately the time of the beginning, but this is from my memory - could be quite different from the reality of the beginning, because as you said, it crept up on me):

https://imgur.com/a/3Wv3WoA


Progress chart for that time:

https://imgur.com/a/dO639Am


I have never done solar arch before, so hopefully, I've chosen the right option hehe (I chose Solar Arc Directions):

https://imgur.com/a/uoHziWG

Here the Solar for 2016:

https://imgur.com/a/xEjAVsR


I have seen two urologists last year (since I had no inflammations on urine tests, and no apparent reason they had no clue what might be the problem, said that if it persists to come again) and now have an appointment next week for another one.

My best friend is a gynecologist and says that since I have been working for 22 years the night shifts that might be taking a toll, since during the night when we sleep certain hormones that regulate different things in our organism are being deployed. Since I don't sleep at the right time, the hormones might be off that regulate vegetative nervous endings that regulate bladder. But that's a long shot hehe

I have done hormones of the thyroid gland - everything is fine.

I thought that we look to the 4th house as the end result of the question at hand (since the 4th house is Cancer ruled by Moon - being "an engine" of the horary)?

So the end result of an illness would be the 10th then?

Would conjunction, trine, and sextile be a favorable ending to the question, and opposition and square a negative?

Hi, Vanja-- I'm still here. I just wanted to do some more reading and spending some time with your latest set of charts. A lot of what I'm seeing astrologically is consistent with the symptoms you've described. I'm still looking for an explanation in medical terms. Back soon.

Vanja, I've done some more reading, and spent some time with each of your charts. It is interesting to see how the symptoms you describe match up well with the astrology. A bladder infection or kidney infection seems to be the most common medical-- and astrological-- explanation of frequent urination, but since your doctors have ruled this out, along with every other common cause, I kept looking.

Medical astrology started long before the development of modern medicine, so it often speaks a different language than modern medicine. The same with horary astrology. William Lilly, the 17th century Grand-daddy of horary astrology, wrote about medical astrology, and he said that there are diseases with physical causes, and diseases of the mind and spirit. As best I can make out, in combining the astrology, your posts, and medical information on reputable Internet sources, what you've got is of a mind/spirit nature.

I don't like the word psychosomatic for an illness, meaning "It's all in your head." Rather, I think psychological injuries oftentimes manifest as body symptoms.

The date you gave for thinking that your bladder problems were indeed serious corresponded with a really tough period for you astrologically. (Solar arc Saturn conjunct natal moon, solar return Chiron conjunct natal sun, Mercury, Mars conjunct part of fortune, Pluto conjunct NN/Mars midpoint in your natal 6th house; transiting Chiron conjunct sun, transiting Pluto conjunct NN in the 6th, Venus conjunct Pluto; progressed Mars and moon in the 8th house.)

So I am wondering (and you don't have to answer if you'd rather not) what else was going on in your life at this time? This time seems to have been very hard on you emotionally.

In your horary chart, your 6th house of illness contains Neptune, who in modern astrology rules both illnesses that are difficult to diagnose, and also a kind of spiritual crisis or disillusionment. The 6th is ruled by Saturn, one of the traditional rulers of bladder problems. I note that your solar arc Saturn hit your natal moon on your onset date, and both of these planets signify bladder problems as well as times of emotional hardship.

Mercury is your significator, and its next aspect is a conjunction with Saturn. Mercury and Gemini (home of your natal Saturn) rule the nervous system. According to Lilly, Mercury also rules illnesses of the "spirit" and "imagination."

J. Lee Lehman, The Martial Art of Horary Astrology,p. 158, says that a relationship between the first and 6th houses usually means that the patient has somehow caused her own disease through lifestyle choices (such as diet,) taking a drug with unwanted side effects, or having to deal with too much stress.

This would suggest that even though your symptoms are all too real, the explanation may be elusive (Neptune in the 6th) but you might cut way back if you are taking foods or medications with known diuretic side effects, such as coffee. Some blood pressure medicines are diuretics. If you take any medicines or herbal preparations it would be good to see whether they have diuretic effects.

Then what about stress in your life? The urge to urinate is very common for people who feel suddenly frightened, but a lot of ordinary background stress can bring it on, for some people, as well.

https://www.calmclinic.com/anxiety/signs/urination-problems
https://thefemedic.com/incontinence/5-everyday-factors-that-cause-frequent-urination/

Natally, you are such a strong Pisces, and with your moon in Cancer, you are probably a bit of a psychic sponge. I think you are a highly intuitive person, but you probably also absorb stress and anxiety from your daily environment without a lot of ability to shut it out.

This would suggest that even if the root cause of your bladder problem remains elusive (Neptune in the 6th,) some basic calming exercises (like yoga, meditation, prayer, or mindfulness) would be helpful, as Neptune is also the modern ruler of spirituality that is more similar to mysticism. Some basic physiotherapy exercises to strengthen your perineum (Venus on the Ebertin degree for the perineum) and urethra area should also be helpful.

Astrologically you've still got some kidney indicators, so having routine blood tests for kidney function are still a good idea.

Good luck with this, Vanja. I'm an old lady who had two children, so I know whereof you speak. If it's any consolation, American TV ads are showing a lot of adult diapers these days. I think there's worse to get to.....



As always, your feedback is appreciated. It's how I learn.

Dear Waybread


I presume that the illness is of mind/spirit in nature. This wouldn't be the first time to be happening to me.

I was pushing myself too hard for too long, for mear survival (since the pay in our country is very low). I know it made no sense to do it, but I was hoping that things would be better here. Of course, they haven't, so I am forced to leave this job, probably lose this apartment I have on the mortgage and leave the country altogether, for there is no normal living here.

Since I moved out from my parents' house when I was 19 (I am 45 now), I never had a home of my own, so I was desperate to keep this one. Not having a further plan and the uncertainty of tomorrow was just putting enormous stress on me because I saw nowhere to go (since the situation is nowhere peachy these days).

With no family, kids or partner, things are kind of harder to manage.

I was thinking of meditation, and was doing some (I was reading about it last year) and will be going back to swimming. Physical activity is important to put back the organism in harmony again. I have closed up since November 2015 when a bad relationship ended and haven't tried to date any more since (answer to your question what was going on with me). I am just too sensitive.

I am guessing that the situation will get better once Mercury passes the conjunction with Pluto (I am unsure if we use Pluto in horary for any kind of forecast?)?? How do we count TIME of Moon needs to travel to Pluto in horary? What is the time frame we are talking about?
Remeber, I have asked this question in November 2017!

What is your point of view on WHEN WILL THIS BE OVER and I feel normal again? Do I look at the 4th house for the ending of the illness or?

How do we forecast the ending of an illness?

THANK YOU!


Vanja

Vanja said:

Yes, the movement and exercise do help
(I am cold only when sitting for long periods of time
- which I do at work for my 12 hours shifts).
I have quit going to the pool to swim because
I thought the there might be some connection to it
(hence I got some kg extra).

But I think I will go back to swimming because I desperately need some exercise.
@ JUPITERASC - Thank you, I am glad that I have found this place ))
I understand that we practice here..
Vanja

Click to expand...

you mention you desperately need some exercise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Bjjede0vE

5 Element qigong practice for Water (kidneys and urinary bladder)

Hello Jupi


Wow! I have actually forgotten all about Tai Chi and Qigong!!! )) I use to practice it a couple of years ago...

Thank you for reminding me of it! I will surely do this exercise, even today!


Hope you are having a nice sunny day today


Vanja

Vanja said:

Hello Jupi
Wow! I have actually forgotten all about Tai Chi and Qigong!!! ))
I use to practice it a couple of years ago...
Thank you for reminding me of it!

I will surely do this exercise, even today!

Hope you are having a nice sunny day today
Vanja

Click to expand...

If regular practice of Tai Chi and Qugong is discontinued
then that is likely to contribute to gradual deterioration

good news then that you plan to return to regular pracitce
since ONLY one days practice is unlikely to remedy

Indeed single time practice is of no use

I will try to practice it regularly

Thank you Jupi

Vanja said:

Indeed single time practice is of no use

I will try to practice it regularly

Thank you Jupi

Click to expand...

Do your best
keep us updated as to results after a few days, weeks regular practice